*remembers there being 5 in ME*
Seriously, I chose neutral a good half the time in ME, because Renegade was too... agressive in a 3rd grade bully sort of way, and Paragon was much too "mother teresay" for my tastes.
What we have now is just a watered down version of both, that takes away more than half the spectrum and often leaves me (and I'm sure others) unsatisfied..
Why did this happen, and what are your thoughts on this?
(Not sure if right foum, but as dialogue occurs inbetween players I think this is reasonable)
So... why do we only have two dialogue options?
Débuté par
Makko Mace
, mai 25 2012 03:12
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#2
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:34
Babi_Siha
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I don't think that's the right topic, the topic about the gameplay is more appropriate, but you're not alone in this.
Just the fact that now we only have two dialogue choices already cut some replay value for me and probably other players as well.
But to answer your question, BW rushed the game and/or got lazy.
Just the fact that now we only have two dialogue choices already cut some replay value for me and probably other players as well.
But to answer your question, BW rushed the game and/or got lazy.
#4
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 09:32
CptData
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av196vad wrote...
"Artistic integrity".
Guess that one will hurt us the next 5 years or so - until EA reboots the entire series in "action mode only".
I'd say "Artistic integrity" is another term for "We ran out of time and money and all we could do was this. If you want more, pay more." <_<
#5
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 09:45
av196vad
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CptData wrote...
av196vad wrote...
"Artistic integrity".
Guess that one will hurt us the next 5 years or so - until EA reboots the entire series in "action mode only".
I'd say "Artistic integrity" is another term for "We ran out of time and money and all we could do was this. If you want more, pay more." <_<
The sad part about your comment is that it is absolutely true.
#6
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 09:48
Karrie788
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Simple: they ran out of time. And probably budget.
And to think we got MP instead... don't get me wrong, I can see the appeal of MP (not a fan myself) but I don't get why they went into that direction when they knew a big part of what we love of Mass Effect was the dialogue. Nobody asked for MP.
And to think we got MP instead... don't get me wrong, I can see the appeal of MP (not a fan myself) but I don't get why they went into that direction when they knew a big part of what we love of Mass Effect was the dialogue. Nobody asked for MP.
#7
Guest_OneWomanArmy_*
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 09:59
Guest_OneWomanArmy_*
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I think it's safe to say that Bioware will never go back to the days of games with tons of dialogue, this was abundantly clear in dragon age 2 and now in Me3. It's their new style to have as few dialogues as possible, they sort of admitted that over at the dragon age threads when people started complaining about it and they were very strict with their answers about it, so I don't think it has anything to do about money or time, to Bioware it's very "in" and "modern" with all their auto dialogue and cutscenes. I remember them saying several times that they were proud of all their cutscenes containing auto dialogues with da2, it's Artistic!!!!!!
Edit: I actually noticed that several of the characters in Me3 especially Liara uses the word "Artistic" in their conversations, Bioware must really love that word.
Edit: I actually noticed that several of the characters in Me3 especially Liara uses the word "Artistic" in their conversations, Bioware must really love that word.
Modifié par OneWomanArmy, 25 mai 2012 - 10:03 .
#8
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 10:55
CptData
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It's not their style, OWA.
It's EA style. They want action games, no RP games. 'nuff said.
A RPG needs a fully fleshed out story, secondary plots, characters etc. Action games need no real story, nearly no characters and absolutely no secondary plots, different branches etc. You know ... RPG means you can go from A to B by passing C, D, E or D, C, E or E, D, C or none at all. Action games mean you have to go from A to B.
In short: creating an action game is much easier than creating a RPG.
It's EA style. They want action games, no RP games. 'nuff said.
A RPG needs a fully fleshed out story, secondary plots, characters etc. Action games need no real story, nearly no characters and absolutely no secondary plots, different branches etc. You know ... RPG means you can go from A to B by passing C, D, E or D, C, E or E, D, C or none at all. Action games mean you have to go from A to B.
In short: creating an action game is much easier than creating a RPG.
#9
Guest_OneWomanArmy_*
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 11:16
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I agree but I think it's only to a certain point that only EA can be blamed. Bioware defends those things in a way that not all of it can be forced by EA.
I agree but I think it's only to a certain point that only EA can be blamed. Bioware defends those things in a way that not all of it can be forced by EA.
#10
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 11:46
CptData
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BW defends it since they simply can't say: "sorry, fans, we made a crappy final part of our awesome trilogy". They could, but that's bad PR.
I think it's mostly EA's fault. They gave not enough time to fully flesh out the story. Also, when the original lead writer left and Mac Walters took that role, things go worse. Mac is maybe a good writer, but he has some flaws professional writers shouldn't have. And that's his love to ONE character on expense of others.
I mean, every writer has characters s/he loves and hates. However, if you write a plot for a game where the player has a major influence on the way how the game is played, you can't promote one character and ignore others. You have to treat them equally - and that's where Mac failed....
I think it's mostly EA's fault. They gave not enough time to fully flesh out the story. Also, when the original lead writer left and Mac Walters took that role, things go worse. Mac is maybe a good writer, but he has some flaws professional writers shouldn't have. And that's his love to ONE character on expense of others.
I mean, every writer has characters s/he loves and hates. However, if you write a plot for a game where the player has a major influence on the way how the game is played, you can't promote one character and ignore others. You have to treat them equally - and that's where Mac failed....
#11
Guest_OneWomanArmy_*
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 01:33
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Either way I don't think that we will ever see a Bioware game with enough squadmate interaction again, those days are gone, it's as you say, they focus on the action part which is such a shame.
#13
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:39
Xeranx
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ME took 4 years to develop.
ME2 was done in two years.
ME3 was going to be released early last year. It was pushed to fall of last year and then pushed back to March of this year.
Unrealistic time schedules lead to results that usually leave one or many unfulfilled. Since I played ME I know what they were able to do and what people expected them to do with the sequel. The sequel showed that with more time they could have met that mark. ME3 shows that there's talent there still, but under pressure, talent doesn't mean miracle.
I've played DA2 more than that because there's still some replayability there despite its shortcomings. I've only played ME3 once. Somehow I knew I wasn't going to be satisfied (this is not about the ending, but ME3 overall). I expected it, yet I hoped to be proven wrong. I bought the collector's edition because of this. I wanted something tangible to remind me of what choices I make in gaming purchases and what the result could be. I also bought the collector's edition because I believed this to be my last ME purchase. That is the case.
ME2 was done in two years.
ME3 was going to be released early last year. It was pushed to fall of last year and then pushed back to March of this year.
Unrealistic time schedules lead to results that usually leave one or many unfulfilled. Since I played ME I know what they were able to do and what people expected them to do with the sequel. The sequel showed that with more time they could have met that mark. ME3 shows that there's talent there still, but under pressure, talent doesn't mean miracle.
I've played DA2 more than that because there's still some replayability there despite its shortcomings. I've only played ME3 once. Somehow I knew I wasn't going to be satisfied (this is not about the ending, but ME3 overall). I expected it, yet I hoped to be proven wrong. I bought the collector's edition because of this. I wanted something tangible to remind me of what choices I make in gaming purchases and what the result could be. I also bought the collector's edition because I believed this to be my last ME purchase. That is the case.
#14
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 03:43
Stalker
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Then they surely have a really bad management.ForgottenWarrior wrote...
Reasource limitation, i think.
They have the biggest publishers in the world in their back and they can't even make the game live up to it's prequel? How can you possibly **** up the resource mamagement like that?
I am sure MP and Kinect -unnecessary additions- and the rather short time of development played a huge role in this. I don't know about you, but I felt like playing a beta.
Modifié par Mr Massakka, 25 mai 2012 - 03:44 .
#15
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 08:04
Seifer006
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Xeranx wrote...
ME took 4 years to develop.
ME2 was done in two years.
ME3 was going to be released early last year. It was pushed to fall of last year and then pushed back to March of this year.
Unrealistic time schedules lead to results that usually leave one or many unfulfilled. Since I played ME I know what they were able to do and what people expected them to do with the sequel. The sequel showed that with more time they could have met that mark. ME3 shows that there's talent there still, but under pressure, talent doesn't mean miracle.
I've played DA2 more than that because there's still some replayability there despite its shortcomings. I've only played ME3 once. Somehow I knew I wasn't going to be satisfied (this is not about the ending, but ME3 overall). I expected it, yet I hoped to be proven wrong. I bought the collector's edition because of this. I wanted something tangible to remind me of what choices I make in gaming purchases and what the result could be. I also bought the collector's edition because I believed this to be my last ME purchase. That is the case.
This.
I too bought the CE - I knew that the game was going to "suffer." ME took roughly 4yrs in making. ME2 was 2yrs, but with having all the choices, consequences and all the characters that was to lead up to ME3- you can't produce the "miracle" whilel still retaing Quality, in 2 1/2 yrs. Not to mention the game was delayed (as mention above),. I read somewhere the Developers had to work on the Holidays ie. Christmas to get this game out fast. Whether that's true or not, it shows, Bioware was under pressure from EA.
If that didn't happen, This game would be: Masterpiece. Sadly it wasn't. In fact it was a huge disappointment. And I'm very happy the fans reaction and outcry was great. The fans showed their passion and love for the ME series. It shows that when the developers or Publishers purposefully don't care about the product they're selling - but only want the $$$, then the product will suffer quality.
It's sad. Such a great Series, ruined by EA
#16
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 08:56
Padt
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I believe I saw one of the writers (it was either Walters or Weekes, I honestly can't recall who) state on Twitter a while back that one of the reasons for the reduction was to force players to choose one moral alignment or the other in all situations. That said, in that same tweet the writer also said that they're listening to feedback on how the change was received, so if people didn't warm up to it I suppose we could see Neutral dialogue options make a comeback in DLC.
This is mostly just me speculating now, but I kind of suspect the revamped morality system may have had something to do with the change as well. It seems to me like ME3 really, really wants you to be able to use the Charm/Intimidate options provided in the dialogue wheel, and to that end, it seems to bend over backwards in several ways to increase your morality score as much as possible (e.g., placing both your Paragon/Renegade scores in one bar as opposed to separate bars, giving you reputation points for doing practically anything at all, etc.). "Neutral" dialogue often awarded no morality points, because that was kind of their whole point, to let you avoid taking one extreme or another in conversation. But the game wants you to have morality points, so it forces you to pick the dialogue options that award them, and does away with the ones that don't.
This is mostly just me speculating now, but I kind of suspect the revamped morality system may have had something to do with the change as well. It seems to me like ME3 really, really wants you to be able to use the Charm/Intimidate options provided in the dialogue wheel, and to that end, it seems to bend over backwards in several ways to increase your morality score as much as possible (e.g., placing both your Paragon/Renegade scores in one bar as opposed to separate bars, giving you reputation points for doing practically anything at all, etc.). "Neutral" dialogue often awarded no morality points, because that was kind of their whole point, to let you avoid taking one extreme or another in conversation. But the game wants you to have morality points, so it forces you to pick the dialogue options that award them, and does away with the ones that don't.
#17
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 10:01
comrade gando
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EA rushed them. All they do is **** everything up and steal peoples' money, no wonder theyre the worst company in america
**** you EA you need to be liquidated for the good of the industry
**** you EA you need to be liquidated for the good of the industry
#18
Posté 08 juin 2012 - 01:37
lerpumpkinzero
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There are a lot of RPG details missing from the game, but the dialogue is especially painful. Surely this can't be the future of Bioware? Not when they also created KOTOR... It would be a true loss to see what was once RPG-artistry (and I use the word artistry without sarcasm), to something else masquerading as an RPG and as art.
