me 1 had btw 50- 60 hrand 60 lvls so did me 2 so with me3 d you thikb it would have been bettwer to xpand game time and xp lvls similar to me 1,24?
would you have liked more xp per character and more game time for campaign than what was delivered?
Débuté par
visionazzery
, mai 25 2012 12:08
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#2
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 12:22
LOLandStuff
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So, like yeah, what you said and all.
#3
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 05:26
Nefla
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That would probably just mean 100 more eavesdropping fetch quests to drag out the inevitable.
#4
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 05:31
Mr.House
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Um ME and ME3 lvl cap is 60, I got to lvl 60 in two pts with my main Shepard in ME and ME3. ME2's lvl cap was...lvl30. So I don't understand what the op is saying.
#5
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 05:33
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My elapsed time in ME1 was actually less than in ME3. Not to mention that a great amount of that was spent climbing mountains in uncharted worlds (essentially padding).
#6
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 05:48
AlanC9
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More missions and maps are always good. Doesn't have much to do with the number of levels you gain.
#7
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 05:54
Nefla
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Cthulhu42 wrote...
My elapsed time in ME1 was actually less than in ME3. Not to mention that a great amount of that was spent climbing mountains in uncharted worlds (essentially padding).
VS the intricate sidequests of substance we got in ME3: eavesdropping and planet scanning? If anything could be called padding...
#8
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 05:56
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Those didn't actually take up that much time, although they were indeed pointless.Nefla wrote...
Cthulhu42 wrote...
My elapsed time in ME1 was actually less than in ME3. Not to mention that a great amount of that was spent climbing mountains in uncharted worlds (essentially padding).
VS the intricate sidequests of substance we got in ME3: eavesdropping and planet scanning? If anything could be called padding...
Either way, ME2 remains the game with the most content.
#9
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 05:56
brettc893
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I wanted to go to the Elcor, Volus, and Hanar homeworlds but noooooooooo.
#10
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 05:58
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I was disappointed with that one. I got some elcor telling me to go save some people, eagerly went there, and... it turned out to be a scanning quest.brettc893 wrote...
I wanted to go to the Elcor, Volus, and Hanar homeworlds but noooooooooo.
I was not amused.
#11
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 06:04
Abraham_uk
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My problem with level 60 in ME 3 is that I still get at least 2 spare points on my optimal build.
181 points. In total. Is it even possible to get a build that uses all 181 points?
181 points. In total. Is it even possible to get a build that uses all 181 points?
#12
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 08:22
RedCaesar97
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I think I would actually prefer less XP in Mass Effect 3. At around level 55-56, you can have all but one of your powers maxed out. I think with less XP, it would allow for more unique builds. Different evolutions can change how individual powers perform, but further restricting the number of powers that can have points would make more unique builds within the classes themselves.
For example, a good cap would be 126 points: enough to max your class passive, Fitness, and 4 powers (21*6=126); note that you could ignore Fitness altogether and put points into another power. I think this would allow for more specialized builds instead of just "do everything" builds.
For example, as an Engineer, I could focus on combos by maxing Overload, Incinerate, Cryo Blast, and Sabotage, and ignoring Drone. Or I could focus on distracting and disabling enemies and put points into Drone, Decoy (bonus power), Cryo Blast, and Sentry Turret.
For example, a good cap would be 126 points: enough to max your class passive, Fitness, and 4 powers (21*6=126); note that you could ignore Fitness altogether and put points into another power. I think this would allow for more specialized builds instead of just "do everything" builds.
For example, as an Engineer, I could focus on combos by maxing Overload, Incinerate, Cryo Blast, and Sabotage, and ignoring Drone. Or I could focus on distracting and disabling enemies and put points into Drone, Decoy (bonus power), Cryo Blast, and Sentry Turret.
#13
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 08:57
DWH1982
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There should have been more Priority Missions. I'm thinking that the Rachni missions should have been longer, and considered "Priority" instead of side missions. That there should have been extra missions with the salarians and the turians later in the game (like after quarian/geth), as well as a mission that focues on the Alliance (maybe a new Parliament is being set up, but there's info that one of the officials has been indoctrinated and you have to figure out which one).
There should also have been multiple priority missions, spaced throughout the game, that dealt with Miranda's father and that relevant story arc - and she should have been a temp squadmate for at least some of them. The way her father was introduced and then quickly disposed just felt unsatisfying, like it was written in a hurry. We should have been more involved in helping Miranda investigate, epsecially given her father's Cerberus links.
This isn't just a mission issue, either, by the way. Fewer Priority missoins means fewer chances to interact with our squadmates. Extra priority missions might have meant more time with characters after you're in an active romance with them, for example - and more time to develop that romance arc.
There should also have been multiple priority missions, spaced throughout the game, that dealt with Miranda's father and that relevant story arc - and she should have been a temp squadmate for at least some of them. The way her father was introduced and then quickly disposed just felt unsatisfying, like it was written in a hurry. We should have been more involved in helping Miranda investigate, epsecially given her father's Cerberus links.
This isn't just a mission issue, either, by the way. Fewer Priority missoins means fewer chances to interact with our squadmates. Extra priority missions might have meant more time with characters after you're in an active romance with them, for example - and more time to develop that romance arc.
#14
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 09:51
capn233
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ME1 is slightly shorter than ME3 if you do every quest in both, as long as you aren't driving around aimlessly in the first game. That is doing every side quest and with scanning, unlocking every object on every side quest. You can make both games longer by wasting time scanning the wrong planets though. If you are in NG+ and don't care about scanning minerals or items in ME1 it can be drastically shorter, although if you skip war assets in ME3 the same is true.
The big difference is that there were more varied side quests in ME1 and less "pick me up a six pack from the Athena Nebula" type things that were the bulk of your little sidequests in ME3.
I also agree that you get too many points in this game. It really doesn't make any sense. There aren't really builds as much as there are the order you obtain ranks for the same build. I am with Red, you should only get enough points to max maybe 5 powers, perhaps even slightly less. Or they should have gone more heavily into the ME1 model and added extra passives for weapon classes.
The big difference is that there were more varied side quests in ME1 and less "pick me up a six pack from the Athena Nebula" type things that were the bulk of your little sidequests in ME3.
I also agree that you get too many points in this game. It really doesn't make any sense. There aren't really builds as much as there are the order you obtain ranks for the same build. I am with Red, you should only get enough points to max maybe 5 powers, perhaps even slightly less. Or they should have gone more heavily into the ME1 model and added extra passives for weapon classes.
Modifié par capn233, 25 mai 2012 - 09:52 .
#15
Posté 27 mai 2012 - 03:14
visionazzery
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Why do pple here think that there can be 'too many' points? i don't get that i might be missing something here, but unless im mistaken, is it not true if the campaign is longer and the xp is more extensive, then it creates GREATER flexibility not LESS for varying builds? If the campaign is 1.5 times the length that it SHOULD be, then how on earth is it a bad thing to have less points and less XP.
Clarification point 1: I concede my very first playthrough of ME1 was a whopping 70 hrs...because being my first time i was guilty of driving and wondering around aimlessly. By character playthrough no. 4 however, it was an average and hence at the most 45-50 hrs....until i started using console to 'cheat' (hey everyone does it eventually lol;)) and then i got game time down to 40 hrs:P
I do agree with one other expert here that indeed, ME2 was far more extensive in terms of content and even prior to dlc...with total gameplay time pre-dlc at an impressive 42-3 mins approx from memory after the dlc is was around the 50 hr mark average...i was really impressed by this.
So to put into perspective 37!? hrs game time now..a few points:
a) It is a frikkin GALACTIC WAR for crying out loud BIOWARE! (and EA) so even adapting as you have thestory and to realistic timelines, either:
i) you really SHOULD have had more sub objectives and side missions on each of the main story based planets you landed on....MUCH more on THESSIA we just want to see that in DLC at least and NOT just for mplayer, but for splayer especially!
OR
ii) you really SHOULD release a dlc to increase the opportunity for planetary side quests on new systems like that in ME2 as a dlc package ANd hub missions as someone observed from ME1 to bring ME1 content ...
and HELL, why not introduce a new vehicle as part of DLC content? after all the hangar for the normandy sr3 is by Far the biggest compared to its predecessors room enough for a vehicle for shepard to kick ass in don't you all think?
So, IF indeed we take all these things, then why. why or why is there this autopilot preoccupation by too many if not most gaming companies to LIMIT and restrict the extent of levelling?
Now i love Skyrim for the very reason that the sky is the limit while i acknowledge this game is the end to Shepard's saga, there is SO much more on such a larger scale than even skyrim in principle, that can be esplored more deeply in terms of galactic conflict and side effects.
consequences of the broader war. The scope was way too narrow as both story and game time...and someone else remarked the fetch quests should have allowed opportunities to land planets and fight enemies or other sub objectives to get what the pple on the citadel needed.
It seems that fans have adapted the 'restrictive realist' gamers mentality as a direct consequence of the fan being forced to accdept the set restrictions imposed by gaming companies.You can easily extend game time, xp in my view WITHOUT sacrificing the build outcomes and variations...after all in skyrim you can CHOOSE which path to take and while i cannot stress the 2 gAmes ARE chalk and cheese the PRINCIPAL is the same.
Finally, two more things actually....if people are disatisfied with the build total outcome even if BIOWARE were to do the sensible thing and extent gameplay time and xp level ups is what i mean...to level 60 from naught like in me1 NOT like one other person suggested thatyou can
'achieve level 60' in ME3 i think you know as well as i do that that is not correct at all...when you IMPORT a max level 30 character from me2 (thought technically its level 90 assuming you got to level 60 in ME1- ) you still ONLY have an additional 30 l;evels.
Ultimately if the gaming developers and creators did not have such restrictions in options and game time, then well...as gamers who play their games we would not be 'forced' for tjhe games we like to play to accept such imposed restrictions would we? think bout it is this not true?
Finally, finally, regarding the build if the issue a lot of you are saying is the total outcome sum of the parts, is what is lacking that wont be achieved through lesser levels- what does that mean you wanty less gameplay time than the already sparse 37 hrs max?~! I don't understand you have to elaborate that one:S But then the sum should be that option one or 2 for the final 'build level' should be the option available to you to max out power of that particular tree's process, is that only one or the other option is available to round out that particular power tree is that not what you all want? can you not achieve that definitive outcome for each skill set even if there more xp and levelling up? the truth is is that ending issue aside, as process and journey to get from point c if point c is start of me3 to end is skipping for instance points d, e and straight to point f know what i mean?
The SP game is only half of what it should be i holdy dare i say it high hopes for future sp dlc!
Clarification point 1: I concede my very first playthrough of ME1 was a whopping 70 hrs...because being my first time i was guilty of driving and wondering around aimlessly. By character playthrough no. 4 however, it was an average and hence at the most 45-50 hrs....until i started using console to 'cheat' (hey everyone does it eventually lol;)) and then i got game time down to 40 hrs:P
I do agree with one other expert here that indeed, ME2 was far more extensive in terms of content and even prior to dlc...with total gameplay time pre-dlc at an impressive 42-3 mins approx from memory after the dlc is was around the 50 hr mark average...i was really impressed by this.
So to put into perspective 37!? hrs game time now..a few points:
a) It is a frikkin GALACTIC WAR for crying out loud BIOWARE! (and EA) so even adapting as you have thestory and to realistic timelines, either:
i) you really SHOULD have had more sub objectives and side missions on each of the main story based planets you landed on....MUCH more on THESSIA we just want to see that in DLC at least and NOT just for mplayer, but for splayer especially!
OR
ii) you really SHOULD release a dlc to increase the opportunity for planetary side quests on new systems like that in ME2 as a dlc package ANd hub missions as someone observed from ME1 to bring ME1 content ...
and HELL, why not introduce a new vehicle as part of DLC content? after all the hangar for the normandy sr3 is by Far the biggest compared to its predecessors room enough for a vehicle for shepard to kick ass in don't you all think?
So, IF indeed we take all these things, then why. why or why is there this autopilot preoccupation by too many if not most gaming companies to LIMIT and restrict the extent of levelling?
Now i love Skyrim for the very reason that the sky is the limit while i acknowledge this game is the end to Shepard's saga, there is SO much more on such a larger scale than even skyrim in principle, that can be esplored more deeply in terms of galactic conflict and side effects.
consequences of the broader war. The scope was way too narrow as both story and game time...and someone else remarked the fetch quests should have allowed opportunities to land planets and fight enemies or other sub objectives to get what the pple on the citadel needed.
It seems that fans have adapted the 'restrictive realist' gamers mentality as a direct consequence of the fan being forced to accdept the set restrictions imposed by gaming companies.You can easily extend game time, xp in my view WITHOUT sacrificing the build outcomes and variations...after all in skyrim you can CHOOSE which path to take and while i cannot stress the 2 gAmes ARE chalk and cheese the PRINCIPAL is the same.
Finally, two more things actually....if people are disatisfied with the build total outcome even if BIOWARE were to do the sensible thing and extent gameplay time and xp level ups is what i mean...to level 60 from naught like in me1 NOT like one other person suggested thatyou can
'achieve level 60' in ME3 i think you know as well as i do that that is not correct at all...when you IMPORT a max level 30 character from me2 (thought technically its level 90 assuming you got to level 60 in ME1- ) you still ONLY have an additional 30 l;evels.
Ultimately if the gaming developers and creators did not have such restrictions in options and game time, then well...as gamers who play their games we would not be 'forced' for tjhe games we like to play to accept such imposed restrictions would we? think bout it is this not true?
Finally, finally, regarding the build if the issue a lot of you are saying is the total outcome sum of the parts, is what is lacking that wont be achieved through lesser levels- what does that mean you wanty less gameplay time than the already sparse 37 hrs max?~! I don't understand you have to elaborate that one:S But then the sum should be that option one or 2 for the final 'build level' should be the option available to you to max out power of that particular tree's process, is that only one or the other option is available to round out that particular power tree is that not what you all want? can you not achieve that definitive outcome for each skill set even if there more xp and levelling up? the truth is is that ending issue aside, as process and journey to get from point c if point c is start of me3 to end is skipping for instance points d, e and straight to point f know what i mean?
The SP game is only half of what it should be i holdy dare i say it high hopes for future sp dlc!
#16
Posté 27 mai 2012 - 08:54
capn233
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That was quite the post.
We think there are too many points because being able to basically max everything is silly. It makes the game way too easy and means that there is essentially no thinking being applied to your build. You don't really have to make any sacrifices, you have your cake and eat it too, or whatever other cliche you want to apply.
Getting to ME1, I didn't have DLC for it, but it takes more like 40hrs to do a completionist run on insanity with a new character. I know this because I recently did it couple times, and I have done it in the past. When I get home, perhaps I will look at my Vanguard saves to see exactly how long it took... but that character did hit 57 with only a mild cheat (setting renegade high to unlock an extra mission). And that made the run slightly longer than it would have been otherwise. Granted, I have maps of all the planets so I know where everything is and drive efficient routes.
Back to ME3. You can get to 60 from an level 30 import in a single game (middle of no-man's land is the earliest I have hit that, although it has been more likely in the defend the missile area), but a new character or a hacked level 1 import you will make low 50's in a single run. The issue is that you have enough points by low and certainly mid 50's that you should have all of the powers that you could need. You do not get any more effective going all the way to 60. ME1 was a bit different in that everything was incremental improvement until you hit milestones in each power that made a bigger difference. But the other thing was that you absolutely could not max every power, even if you could hit the highest milestones in most of them.
If we want to compare apples to different colored apples, we can think about all the shooting missions in each game.
ME1
Eden Prime
Citadel: Expose Saren (which is mostly talking to people, but there are Saren's assassin's, Fist's thugs at Chora's Den, and the mercs trying to get Tali).
Therum
Feros
Noveria
Virmire
Ilos
Citadel
Rogue VI
Asari Diplomacy
Besieged Base
Cerberus
Colony of the Dead
Dead Scientists
Depot Sigma 23
Derelict Freighter (annoying mission)
Distress Call
Espionage Probe
ExoGeni Facility
Geth Incursions (5 planets for this one)
Hades Dog
Hostage
Hostile Takeover (3 planets)
Listening Post Alpha
Listening Post Theta
Lost Freighter
Lost Module
Major Kyle
Missing Marines
Missing Survey Team
Privateers
Negotiation (in a real playthrough you have this or Besieged Base).
Quite a few (31 in a standard game), even though in some of those you can beat them without firing a shot, or facing very few enemies at all. And although the skyscapes were varied and interesting, the combat areas (buildings) were only a few different prefabs of similar configuration, or Kaloon freighters that were layed out basically the same way.
ME2
Lazarus Station
Freedon's Progress
The Professor
Archangel
The Convict
The Warlord
Horizon
Assassin
Justicar
Tali
Disabled Collector Cruiser
Gift of Greatness
Prodigal
Rite of Passage
Old Blood
Eye for an Eye
Abandoned Mine
Anomalous Weather
Archeological Dig Site
Blood Pack Comm Relay
Blood Pack Base
Eclipse Smuggling Depot
Captured Mining Facility
Strontium Mule
Blue Suns Base
Imminent Ship Crash
Javelin Missile Launch
Wrecked Merchant Freighter
Hahne-Kedar Facility
Lost Operative
Quarian Crash Site
Derelict Reaper
Treason
A House Divided
Suicide Mission
Many more "main line" missions, although some are optional. 35 shooting missions total. Some of the shooting N7 missions are probably similar in combat time to ME1 UNC missions, although they don't have all the driving time.
ME3
Earth
Mars
Palaven
Cerberus Lab
Grissom Academy
Sur'Kesh
Turian Platoon
Cerberus Attack
Tuchanka Bomb
Cerberus Abductions
Tuchanka
Citadel
Cerberus Fighter Base
Krogan Team
Geth Dreadnought
Rescue Koris
Fuel Reactors
Rannoch
Thessia
Communications Hub
Horizon
Cronos Station
Earth: Hades Cannon
Earth: No Man's Land / Defend the Missiles
The N7 missions can be fairly short, but still have similar combat times to most of the ME1 or ME2 UNC or N7 missions. Grissom is fairly long for a side mission. By my count 24 shooting missions. More of the missions fall into the main line this time, even if they are optional as in ME2. Yeah total combat time is probably less than ME2, although each main line mission is probably similar in length.
Perhaps they could have made more missions. Personally I didn't care for any of the N7 missions in ME3. ME1 was perhaps on the right track with the varied side quests, but they might have felt out of place in ME3 (at least that is a seemingly decent excuse).
So sure maybe combat time was a little shorter, but in any event that doesn't mean that they need to increase the amount of points you get. We will see how much DLC comes out. There is one full length mission already, of course that doesn't compete with ME2's 5 DLC missions, but the game is still young (and why I left DLC out of the list). But in total time ME1 still isn't much longer, if any.
Not that I am on a crusade to defend ME3. If anything I found ME3 somewhat disappointing, and ME2 is still my favorite (because it is the strongest game overall).
We think there are too many points because being able to basically max everything is silly. It makes the game way too easy and means that there is essentially no thinking being applied to your build. You don't really have to make any sacrifices, you have your cake and eat it too, or whatever other cliche you want to apply.
Getting to ME1, I didn't have DLC for it, but it takes more like 40hrs to do a completionist run on insanity with a new character. I know this because I recently did it couple times, and I have done it in the past. When I get home, perhaps I will look at my Vanguard saves to see exactly how long it took... but that character did hit 57 with only a mild cheat (setting renegade high to unlock an extra mission). And that made the run slightly longer than it would have been otherwise. Granted, I have maps of all the planets so I know where everything is and drive efficient routes.
Back to ME3. You can get to 60 from an level 30 import in a single game (middle of no-man's land is the earliest I have hit that, although it has been more likely in the defend the missile area), but a new character or a hacked level 1 import you will make low 50's in a single run. The issue is that you have enough points by low and certainly mid 50's that you should have all of the powers that you could need. You do not get any more effective going all the way to 60. ME1 was a bit different in that everything was incremental improvement until you hit milestones in each power that made a bigger difference. But the other thing was that you absolutely could not max every power, even if you could hit the highest milestones in most of them.
If we want to compare apples to different colored apples, we can think about all the shooting missions in each game.
ME1
Eden Prime
Citadel: Expose Saren (which is mostly talking to people, but there are Saren's assassin's, Fist's thugs at Chora's Den, and the mercs trying to get Tali).
Therum
Feros
Noveria
Virmire
Ilos
Citadel
Rogue VI
Asari Diplomacy
Besieged Base
Cerberus
Colony of the Dead
Dead Scientists
Depot Sigma 23
Derelict Freighter (annoying mission)
Distress Call
Espionage Probe
ExoGeni Facility
Geth Incursions (5 planets for this one)
Hades Dog
Hostage
Hostile Takeover (3 planets)
Listening Post Alpha
Listening Post Theta
Lost Freighter
Lost Module
Major Kyle
Missing Marines
Missing Survey Team
Privateers
Negotiation (in a real playthrough you have this or Besieged Base).
Quite a few (31 in a standard game), even though in some of those you can beat them without firing a shot, or facing very few enemies at all. And although the skyscapes were varied and interesting, the combat areas (buildings) were only a few different prefabs of similar configuration, or Kaloon freighters that were layed out basically the same way.
ME2
Lazarus Station
Freedon's Progress
The Professor
Archangel
The Convict
The Warlord
Horizon
Assassin
Justicar
Tali
Disabled Collector Cruiser
Gift of Greatness
Prodigal
Rite of Passage
Old Blood
Eye for an Eye
Abandoned Mine
Anomalous Weather
Archeological Dig Site
Blood Pack Comm Relay
Blood Pack Base
Eclipse Smuggling Depot
Captured Mining Facility
Strontium Mule
Blue Suns Base
Imminent Ship Crash
Javelin Missile Launch
Wrecked Merchant Freighter
Hahne-Kedar Facility
Lost Operative
Quarian Crash Site
Derelict Reaper
Treason
A House Divided
Suicide Mission
Many more "main line" missions, although some are optional. 35 shooting missions total. Some of the shooting N7 missions are probably similar in combat time to ME1 UNC missions, although they don't have all the driving time.
ME3
Earth
Mars
Palaven
Cerberus Lab
Grissom Academy
Sur'Kesh
Turian Platoon
Cerberus Attack
Tuchanka Bomb
Cerberus Abductions
Tuchanka
Citadel
Cerberus Fighter Base
Krogan Team
Geth Dreadnought
Rescue Koris
Fuel Reactors
Rannoch
Thessia
Communications Hub
Horizon
Cronos Station
Earth: Hades Cannon
Earth: No Man's Land / Defend the Missiles
The N7 missions can be fairly short, but still have similar combat times to most of the ME1 or ME2 UNC or N7 missions. Grissom is fairly long for a side mission. By my count 24 shooting missions. More of the missions fall into the main line this time, even if they are optional as in ME2. Yeah total combat time is probably less than ME2, although each main line mission is probably similar in length.
Perhaps they could have made more missions. Personally I didn't care for any of the N7 missions in ME3. ME1 was perhaps on the right track with the varied side quests, but they might have felt out of place in ME3 (at least that is a seemingly decent excuse).
So sure maybe combat time was a little shorter, but in any event that doesn't mean that they need to increase the amount of points you get. We will see how much DLC comes out. There is one full length mission already, of course that doesn't compete with ME2's 5 DLC missions, but the game is still young (and why I left DLC out of the list). But in total time ME1 still isn't much longer, if any.
Not that I am on a crusade to defend ME3. If anything I found ME3 somewhat disappointing, and ME2 is still my favorite (because it is the strongest game overall).
Modifié par capn233, 27 mai 2012 - 09:00 .
#17
Posté 27 mai 2012 - 09:18
visionazzery
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agree completely mate but what i was saying was to make it so that if they add more extensive builds they always have more build options than possible xp per playthrough so that as you say it is not abusing the skill system and that you can more tactfully level up your character to choose one skill over another. By my count and yours, 24 missions just does not cut it even as core pre-dlc even inc from ashes...for me it not good enough as your list outlines and proves, that in me1 and me2 you have average of 7-11 missions difference possible to do i not just talking about shooting i tlaking bout rpg possibilityies as well.
Your post was very detailed and impressive comprohensive THAT WAS quite the post
Your post was very detailed and impressive comprohensive THAT WAS quite the post
