49 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic_Warlock]

XxI EpiK IxX wrote...

Seeker swarms are present on Palaven

Fixed. Swarm does not equal collector.

[I will frag you]

Agree with no harbinger-esque units. The whole reason Harbinger kept butting in was because he was so obsessed with Shepard. also it'd be annoying because people may not have played ME2, misinterpret the mechanic, and use very poor tactics against them.

I don't really think shoving out husks from the collector faction is a good idea. maybe not have basic husks, but the collectors were the reaper's servants, and even should they have splintered without their general, they would still have access to the huskifying devices, and would undoubtedly use them to reduce casualties of themselves.

[Joken]

I will frag you wrote...

Agree with no harbinger-esque units. The whole reason Harbinger kept butting in was because he was so obsessed with Shepard. also it'd be annoying because people may not have played ME2, misinterpret the mechanic, and use very poor tactics against them.

I don't really think shoving out husks from the collector faction is a good idea. maybe not have basic husks, but the collectors were the reaper's servants, and even should they have splintered without their general, they would still have access to the huskifying devices, and would undoubtedly use them to reduce casualties of themselves.

They haven't stopped working for the Reapers, quite the opposite, they are now being deployed by them directly. The thing with the husks is that the expination for why the reapers have bothered with collectors is that they used them to attack the batarians while they still had no husks. Because of this they would have needed something to fill the roles that the husk units did in ME2, so they use alternative units. Plus, large numbers of Sicons would be too horrible to imagine, hence less direct killing of you, more letting other units have an easier time. And abominations would just get you wipped out fast if they aren't larger targets.

[NinthGeorgesw]

Why are you so against previous enemies? Abominations and Scions would make more sense than your units, and require less work for Bioware.

[Joken]

NinthGeorgesw wrote...

Why are you so against previous enemies? Abominations and Scions would make more sense than your units, and require less work for Bioware.

It's not "previous enemies" it's husks. My reasons:

• For a change
• So that it fits in with the idea that the fraction was used before they had acess to any husks
• Becuase the reaper fraction already ues husks, having other units made from them doesn't seem right in a different fraction
• I don't see those sorts of husk units as central to the collectors, more as an excuse to include husks in ME2
• To alow gameplay changes
• ext.

Why would it make more sence ot use husk units instead of funtionally near identical ones that have a bit richer lore attached?

[NinthGeorgesw]

Joken wrote...

NinthGeorgesw wrote...

Why are you so against previous enemies? Abominations and Scions would make more sense than your units, and require less work for Bioware.

It's not "previous enemies" it's husks. My reasons:

• For a change
• So that it fits in with the idea that the fraction was used before they had acess to any husks
• Becuase the reaper fraction already ues husks, having other units made from them doesn't seem right in a different fraction
• I don't see those sorts of husk units as central to the collectors, more as an excuse to include husks in ME2
• To alow gameplay changes
• ext.

Why would it make more sence ot use husk units instead of funtionally near identical ones that have a bit richer lore attached?

Reasons why your units make less sense

• Most people want Collectors for nostalgia, not for completely different units for them
• We know the Collectors had husks, they used them throughout ME2
• I'm suggesting Abominations, which are not the same as Husks
• The previous cycle races make no sense, as if they've had them for 50,000 years, why not use them when previously abducting Humans?

[Joken]

NinthGeorgesw wrote...

Joken wrote...

NinthGeorgesw wrote...

Why are you so against previous enemies? Abominations and Scions would make more sense than your units, and require less work for Bioware.

It's not "previous enemies" it's husks. My reasons:

• For a change
• So that it fits in with the idea that the fraction was used before they had acess to any husks
• Becuase the reaper fraction already ues husks, having other units made from them doesn't seem right in a different fraction
• I don't see those sorts of husk units as central to the collectors, more as an excuse to include husks in ME2
• To alow gameplay changes
• ext.

Why would it make more sence ot use husk units instead of funtionally near identical ones that have a bit richer lore attached?

Reasons why your units make less sense

• Most people want Collectors for nostalgia, not for completely different units for them

I have still included all the actual collector units, and simply replaced the ones based on husks for the reasons above.

•  
• We know the Collectors had husks, they used them throughout ME2

These would not be the same group of collectors, these would be ones that haddn't been opperating independently but under the control of the reapers, these are ones opperating under the direct command of them. Thus they wouldn't be useing collector crusiers or what not and so on. The Husk units were used becuase they didn't have access to the other races, more resorces to support more races over such a long period and all, little need due to not doing heavy fighting and can just create husks on the fly due to the way they were opperating (small raids, not massive war). 

•   
• I'm suggesting Abominations, which are not the same as Husks

When I say husks I'm using it to refer to all the units that are created from the current races of the galaxy, just like how the Ravenger is a "Rachni Husk". So everything I'm sayign against "husks" is agaisnt Abominations as well. 

•   
• The previous cycle races make no sense, as if they've had them for 50,000 years, why not use them when previously abducting Humans?

Becuase it was the reapers who have supplied them, along side the new weapons used by Guardians/Elites. 

[1eighty7]

yeah haveing one collector ship is not en entire fleet...they could have sent the remaining fleet to palavan...and for punishment for not doing what reapers had told them to do, they stay till either palavan is destroyed or the collectors themselves are all killed on the planetary attack?..

the collector base i understand... considering the location of where the base was at and no other ship's can make it through the relay and not survive other than reaper tech makeing it able to last there that long without being torn apart by the black hole.... I'd just have one base too if i was told no fleet will ever come knocking at my front door.

[mrcanada]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Collectors be dead.

Mass Effect 2 ending be forgotten? Or had ME3 ending fogged everyone's mind with rage?

Assuming that all of the Collector's were on one ship is stupid.  

There is no could for the Collector's, there is only should and when.

[mrcanada]

I will frag you wrote...

Agree with no harbinger-esque units. The whole reason Harbinger kept butting in was because he was so obsessed with Shepard. also it'd be annoying because people may not have played ME2, misinterpret the mechanic, and use very poor tactics against them.

I don't really think shoving out husks from the collector faction is a good idea. maybe not have basic husks, but the collectors were the reaper's servants, and even should they have splintered without their general, they would still have access to the huskifying devices, and would undoubtedly use them to reduce casualties of themselves.

No Harbringer units = not being the Collector's.  Again the MP has very little to do with the SP, people just want to play the MP for what it is and they want the Collectors to be a part of it.  This isn't Starcraft and three enemy factions to fight is not enough.

[Joken]

1eighty7 wrote...

yeah haveing one collector ship is not en entire fleet...they could have sent the remaining fleet to palavan...and for punishment for not doing what reapers had told them to do, they stay till either palavan is destroyed or the collectors themselves are all killed on the planetary attack?..

the collector base i understand... considering the location of where the base was at and no other ship's can make it through the relay and not survive other than reaper tech makeing it able to last there that long without being torn apart by the black hole.... I'd just have one base too if i was told no fleet will ever come knocking at my front door.

Just to stress what I have already said:

Joken wrote...

This bit covered that the reapers brought along some collectors:

"When the reapers first invaded batarian space they had yet to gain a force of husks or indoctrinated followers to lead their ground assault. Anticipating this they deployed an army of collectors held over from the last cycle to be their ground forces. In battles with the batarian resistance their numbers were whittled down, but not before a large enough force of husks was created to replace them. Now the remaining collector forces are being deployed by the reapers as their own special forces teams. Armed with improved reapers weapons and backed up by the altered forms of other species from their cycle the former protheans are a force to be reckoned with."

What it leaves out it where they were cloned just before the invasion of the galaxy or if they were kept around in status/successive generation/stupendously good reaper healthcare whatever.

So, any comments on the actual units I've outlined? Think they could make fun and interesting enemies?

 

The collector fraction that I am proposing was brought by the reapers and are not the same group as that which was faced in Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par Joken, 25 mai 2012 - 07:17 .

[Mozts]

I want Collectors badly, but they have the same problems as the Protheans: In order to became MP content, they need first to be SP content. Shepard doesn't fight Collectors in SP, so if we want Collectors in MP, we need a SP DLC first.

[I will frag you]

mrcanada wrote...

No Harbringer units = not being the Collector's.  Again the MP has very little to do with the SP, people just want to play the MP for what it is and they want the Collectors to be a part of it.  This isn't Starcraft and three enemy factions to fight is not enough.

I see what you mean but if the mechanic was the exact same (one on the field, claims the nearest drone whenever it dies) I think they'd be more annoying than anything else. Maybe if the mechanics were changed.

[Joken]

Mozts wrote...

I want Collectors badly, but they have the same problems as the Protheans: In order to became MP content, they need first to be SP content. Shepard doesn't fight Collectors in SP, so if we want Collectors in MP, we need a SP DLC first.

I don't see why that should be. Unlike the Protheans which would be a HUGH shift from the establised situation and compleatly undermine Javik there is nothing like that with the Collectors. It would take nothing more then something along the lines of the first establishing paragraph I posted in the OP, and then wham, we can have collectors. 

[Mozts]

Joken wrote...

Mozts wrote...

I want Collectors badly, but they have the same problems as the Protheans: In order to became MP content, they need first to be SP content. Shepard doesn't fight Collectors in SP, so if we want Collectors in MP, we need a SP DLC first.

I don't see why that should be. Unlike the Protheans which would be a HUGH shift from the establised situation and compleatly undermine Javik there is nothing like that with the Collectors. It would take nothing more then something along the lines of the first establishing paragraph I posted in the OP, and then wham, we can have collectors. 

Lets hope BioWare thinks like you.

[Samurai Knecht]

Really good ideas OP and I too hope that the Collectors are added at some point to SP and MP via DLC, but honestly I prefer the Collectors as they were in ME2 with the Praetorian and Scion. The points you make for your design changes are good, but again I think the Collectors are already balanced and ready to be brought to ME3 just as they are.

As far as the game lore goes, while Shepard doesn't directly encounter the Collectors in SP, they are mentioned as being on Palaven, as per the Miracle at Palaven Codex entry that says Collector swarms were present. I imagine most people would take this to mean the Seeker Swarms but IMO if BioWare meant that then they would have said explicitly Seeker Swarms and not Collector Swarms.

[mcz2345]

I agree because of...


<-----------

Modifié par mcz2345, 25 mai 2012 - 06:13 .

[XxI EpiK IxX]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

XxI EpiK IxX wrote...

COLLECTOR swarms are present on Palaven

Fixed. Swarm does not equal collector.

"It could be they are talking about seekers but doesn't mean they that they didn't mean exactly what they typed there. I think calling large groups of Collectors "swarms" would NOT be incorrect because of their bug-like appearance"

 If they didn't mean Collectors I'm sure they would have just said seeker swarms. and ^ like I said earlier.  

[Gemini Freak]

XxI EpiK IxX wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

XxI EpiK IxX wrote...

COLLECTOR swarms are present on Palaven

Fixed. Swarm does not equal collector.

"It could be they are talking about seekers but doesn't mean they that they didn't mean exactly what they typed there. I think calling large groups of Collectors "swarms" would NOT be incorrect because of their bug-like appearance"

 If they didn't mean Collectors I'm sure they would have just said seeker swarms. and ^ like I said earlier.  

Where can they be seen? I don't usually pay attention to the minor details...

[NinthGeorgesw]

mcz2345 wrote...

I agree because of...


<-----------

Me too!

But with the original units, makes more sense.

Modifié par NinthGeorgesw, 25 mai 2012 - 06:31 .

[XxI EpiK IxX]

Gemini Freak wrote...

Where can they be seen? I don't usually pay attention to the minor details...

It's on the codex on the Fall of Palaven or Battle of Palaven or something of Palaven. Lol. It's just a brief mention there but that's enough for me to not need a single player DLC to introduce them.

[Joken]

Just a heads up, I've re-formatted the OP to show the level of change I'm proposing.

A quick question for all those supporting husk type units still being used by the Collectors despite the reasons I've given for why I think it should be changed. Why is it a problem to swap these unit's for functionally near identical ones, when it was never a problem that Geth after ME1 didn't use husks (even though the level of opportunity for them to use them lore wise would be near the same imho)?

If the husk type units were to be used instead of my suggested alternatives then I fell they would HAVE to be made from batarians instead of humans.

[TheMightyG00sh]

XxI EpiK IxX wrote...

TheMightyG00sh wrote...

Harbinger units would fine if you renamed to "Reaper" or something like that. (It isn't just Harbinger that could control a Collector) and keep Scions. Praetorians I think would be a little hard to implement unless they made a game mode where things like that, the Armature and Kai Leng-class units would spawn as boss units.

Praetorians are like Banshees. Barrier then armor and no health. Maybe the fact that they fly and are large are the real problem. I don't think they will be too powerful for a n7 squad to handle

True, the real danger with Praetorians was because of how goddamn stupid the squadmate AI was. It would be difficult to kite a Praetorian, perhaps have them spawn as a last enemy or something similar, like in waves with only Drones and Abominations/Sacrfice? Having them in their with the rest though would just be overkill especially on a map like Condor or Glacier.

[Joken]

 With the way the units I proposed would interact I feel the collectors may well be one of the toughest fractions to fight. Think about it:

• Guardians (Elites) and Generals have weapons that can fire directly though sheilds and barriers with minimal loss of damage.
• Guardians (Elites) can deply those one-directoinal sheilds that they used in ME2 and the geth used in ME1, meaning they can hit you while you can't hit them.
• Suicides hide behind 
  Guardians (Elites) until they are close when they charge out, possibly in large numbers, meaning it will be difficult to take them out before they get close to you.
• Suicides explode no-matter how they are killed (exeption being freazing), and they get close to you. Plus they would act like husks when they get close, possibly including jumping on you, so killing them when they are close to you could well be painfull.
• Assassins can move around the map largely un-seen.
• Assassins use particle beams to provide suppressing fire for other units to move forwards.
• Guardians (Elites) and Imobilisers have have granades/cannon fire that can create a singularity, leaving you unable to move for a short period of time and making it harder to aim at enemies while in this state. They also leave sections of the map out of bounds for a period of time.
• Imobilisers fire alot of these.
• Imobilisers are exeptionally hard to kill from the front (basically need a widow), and act to keep their backs out of the firing lines.
• Generals are just Preatorians with a different charicter model and a new main gun.
• Guardians (Elites) can heal injured allies.
• Drones would be in farily large numbers on every round.
• Assassins rely on hitting you for a reasonably long period of time.
• Killing a General the wrong way leads to lots of irritating bugs
• Seekers can force you out of cover.

So basically we have a fraction that will cut you down very quickly if your not in cover, but wich with Suicides, seekers and singualrity attacks forces you to move alot and can also prevent you from quickly returning to where you just were. These would be a hard enemy to face.

Modifié par Joken, 25 mai 2012 - 07:45 .

[XxI EpiK IxX]

Seekers would be cute like if they constantly drained your shields/health if they are attached to you. Kind of like when you get Ravager juice on you instead of immobilizing you because that would immediately get you destroyed with the other proposed enemy types running around. Also having the guardians/elites healing might be a little much considering other suggested abilities like damaging health directly without hurting your shields and being able to deploy personal shields they can fire through. Maybe instead of them being able to heal the others give the healing ability to say the general.. like say when a general appears it give them some sort of buff which will regen their health/shields (maybe armor) and give weaker units a barrier or armor layer. Collectors used barriers exclusively right? no shields?