200 réponses à ce sujet

[Volus Warlord]

Subject M wrote...

Its just about making the costs and risks outstrip the benefit and acting quickly when violations against the regulations are discovered. Think of how nuclear technology is handled, but instead of closed government regulation, it should be a transparent process.

Sounds a bit naive, on more than a few fronts there.

[AtreiyaN7]

It's perfectly fine to explore religion in a sci-fi milieu - it's a part of our society. That being said, it's a part of our society that often makes me facepalm whenever I see a religious leader say something incredibly stupid involving bigotry, ignorance and/or anti-science rhetoric. I think religion has been a major factor in hindering scientific and medical progress, but still, it's a legitimate topic to write about.

[Subject M]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Its just about making the costs and risks outstrip the benefit and acting quickly when violations against the regulations are discovered. Think of how nuclear technology is handled, but instead of closed government regulation, it should be a transparent process.

Sounds a bit naive, on more than a few fronts there.

Perhaps, but sometimes you might not have a choice unless one want to risk creating a society that is more divided and with lesser social mobility then ever before in human history.

Modifié par Subject M, 25 mai 2012 - 08:30 .

[Volus Warlord]

Subject M wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Its just about making the costs and risks outstrip the benefit and acting quickly when violations against the regulations are discovered. Think of how nuclear technology is handled, but instead of closed government regulation, it should be a transparent process.

Sounds a bit naive, on more than a few fronts there.

Perhaps, but sometimes you might not have a choice unless one want to risk creating a society that is more divided and with lesser social mobility then ever before in human history.

Social mobility is not a virtue. Neither is unity, for that matter.

[Blitzkrieg0811]

Religion and scifi? That's not very specific. And it's not like it's never been done before. See also: Warhammer 40k

[Subject M]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Its just about making the costs and risks outstrip the benefit and acting quickly when violations against the regulations are discovered. Think of how nuclear technology is handled, but instead of closed government regulation, it should be a transparent process.

Sounds a bit naive, on more than a few fronts there.

Perhaps, but sometimes you might not have a choice unless one want to risk creating a society that is more divided and with lesser social mobility then ever before in human history.

Social mobility is not a virtue. Neither is unity, for that matter.

And with that I think we have arrived at roads end with that discussion.

[mauro2222]

Hmmm... it seems that people are confusing religion with spirituality and beliefs.

[o Ventus]

I don't have any problems with religion in my sci-fi at all.

It's when the "Sci-Fi" turns out to be a big cover for an ass ton of poorly-veiled religious analogues is when it irks me.

[Volus Warlord]

Blitzkrieg0811 wrote...

Religion and scifi? That's not very specific. And it's not like it's never been done before. See also: Warhammer 40k

Good one. 

Honorable Mention: The Advent, Sins of a Solar Empire

[The Spamming Troll]

religion is a made up thing, like time.

so i wouldnt care either way.

id prolly just get a little annoyed with it, like with ash/kaidens incessant nonstop bickering about shepard and cerberus.

[Homebound]

depends on the narrative OP. If your sci-fi story revolves around the elder gods of lovecraftian lore, then OBVIOUSLY religion would have a strong stake. Warhammer from my understanding is VERY religious but its very sci-fi as well.

[Maria Caliban]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Should religion stay away from sci-fi?

No.

[Deltakarma]

Religion and Scifi should be together more.

Creates good mixtures if done right. But someone else might get it wrong if not done right and start some fiasco which result in laughter.

[darkheartedmk]

Deltakarma wrote...

Religion and Scifi should be together more.

Creates good mixtures if done right. But someone else might get it wrong if not done right and start some fiasco which result in laughter.

agreed if you going for a deep story in sci fi and want to use religion as part of it,if you do it well you could have a great story on your hads or you could bugger it up royaly like the ending we got by doing something deep and incredible stupid at the same time

[Getorex]

Depends. Doesn't HAVE to be kept away. The entire Dune series is heavily religious...made up and in the future (thankfully) so no heavy current day nonsense and preaching. Religion shows up in lots of good sci-fi. It can be handled well (the movie, "Pitch Black" had a wee bit of islamic faith in it).

[Lord Phoebus]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Religion is quite a complex topic and probably a taboo. And with so many religions each with their own view on how we should live our lives, is religion too much trouble and be ignored in future sci-fi media and in the future or is it important to sci-fi and our future?

If you do talk about religion, then it should be one of the major themes of the story. If it isn't one of the major themes of the story it should probably be ignored.

In the kind of pulp sci-fi that is ME, you probably should avoid talking about real world religions, nothing good has ever come from being publicly critical of another's religion.  However, there's nothing wrong with using a Sci-Fi religion to examine our own belief systems and how they interact with technology and new forms of knowledge.  If you were to talk about the Hanar refusing surgery because of their medical beliefs it's far less contentious than talking about Jehovah's Witnesses refusing blood transfusions.

Is and would Religion get in the way of such advancements in reality and in sci-fi? Just been wondering on how religions in the Mass Efect universe would deal with the everyday man/woman having implants and genetic engineering, AI's taking part in everyday life and actual alien life walking the streets.

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

My personal belief is that religions are supposed to offer truth, if they have to change their tenets in the face of new technology then they weren't true to begin with and they shouldn't be followed.  That isn't to say there isn't value in the moral teachings of the faith, but I wouldn't be able to believe in a religion that had to change.

Faced with a sudden change in our understanding of the universe, I suspect many people will share my perspective.  However, to quote Marx, "Religion is the opiate of the masses,"  in the face of fear and uncertainty, I suspect many people may hold closer to their religious beliefs for comfort.  It will likely be a contentious issue and could lead to a few pogroms, crusades and jihads.  There is also the possibilty that humans will convert to alien religions, particularly if the aliens are more technologically advanced than we are.

[mcz2345]

Naughty Bear wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Religious themes worked out fine in Hyperion. Staying away from them just seems like you're limiting yourself. Unless you really do think that the whole business is nonsense and eventually everyone's going to wise up.

Well i'm mainly thinking about the future and injecting a bit of interest by discussing how our religions react to Humanity stumbling upon a Mass Relay.

Discovering a Mass Relay means there is alien life and they existed before us. That is quite a huge step and i remeber the Vatican said something about willing to accept alien life, but never heard anything from other religions.

Christians accept alien life, on our mass we pray for all God's creations, it goes something like this "And guide/protect all of your creations in the entire universe."

Modifié par mcz2345, 25 mai 2012 - 10:08 .

[Oldbones2]

Naughty Bear wrote...

In majority of sci-fi media, we are dealing with themes of Transhumanism, bioengineering, alien life, artficial life and many others that could resolve around the creation of species or the galaxy.

Religion is quite a complex topic and probably a taboo. And with so many religions each with their own view on how we should live our lives, is religion too much trouble and be ignored in future sci-fi media and in the future or is it important to sci-fi and our future?

Is and would Religion get in the way of such advancements in reality and in sci-fi? Just been wondering on how religions in the Mass Efect universe would deal with the everyday man/woman having implants and genetic engineering, AI's taking part in everyday life and actual alien life walking the streets.

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

Religion is just as good as anything else when used as a source of inspiration for sci-fi or an element of a story.

But it always goes bad when you try to force an idea/message/dogma down an audience's throat.

Same thing happened here, Casey Hudson and Mac tried to force feed us their vision of utopia or whatever.

[dreamgazer]

Abraham_uk wrote...

The religious slants in Deep Space 9, Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica remake were done very well.

They were not too preachy. They were plot relevant. They provided context and adequate explanations to character motivations. They were an integral part of the plot.

They didn't try to force ideas on the audience. They showed how strong religious belief can be helpful and harmful at the same time.

This post pretty much covers how I feel about it.

I don't think they should be separate, but they should be very carefully done in their examinations of faith and the religious institution---and relevant to the plot, without forcing ideals down one's throat.  In the right context, they can be pretty provocative for both believers and non-believers. 

[Gruntburner]

Just like any real genre, no subject should be taboo to address directly. It should give you a question about religion, but it should be up to you to answer it.

[aries1001]

Let me look at this from another perspective.

Apparantly, in ME1, we learn that there are Beings of Light much older than every other race in the whole universe and they come from a place very, very far away (as I've read in the thread titled: What is the Catalyst?). What then could these beings of light be in our understanding - messengers - angelos - in greek ? or something entirely else alltogether?

As for the discussion of religon in sci fi, I do think it is a valid question to ask and that sci fi writers should deal with religious themes in their stories. However, let me also point out that what we tend to see as religious themes also can be seen as philosophical themes e.g. what is a man? is a deaf women still a human being if she has a cochlear implants in her ears, or are we sill human if we use implants to prolong our life. Many elderly persons today have a pacemaker, many middle-aged persons have hearing aids etc. - are they still human. There's even talk about giving soldiers or disabled persons exo-skeletons. Are they still people then?

Many religious themes can also be seen as transpersonal themes, maybe coming from our consciousness to be projected into the outer world, for our consciousness to be dealt with.
E.g. in the case of Mass Effect and its lore - why did Shepard see the boy only he could see at the beginning of the game. When bad things happen to us in our lives, we - once - explained it as the will of a higher being (of light?) whose will we did not fully understand. However, when bad things happen today, we don't use the explanation given above to explain bad things happening.

As I see it, even though it is an old word, there is such a things as fate (no, not the game) or destiny. When nad things do happen or we can't get out of dead end, it is usually because of choices we did make months or maybe even years ago. In that sense, Shepard has a destiny in ME3, it is his destirny to fight the Reapers - no matter the cost. It all started way back in ME1 where he decided to say yes to become the first human in space.

----

My hope is that in 23rd or 24th century humankind will have evolved so that everyone is free to state what they personally believe in without fear and that faith or (religious) belifes are highly individual....

[WizenSlinky0]

Religion will continue to exist. Whether or not its a minority or majority remains to be seen, however, it will be there. If we discover alien life current religions will either implement it into their current belief structure, or die off, and be replaced by new religions that adopt it. Therefore, it's a critical aspect if you want to realistically explore elements of human/alien interactions and human/human interactions in the future.

Religion, as with all themes, can be used or misused in a piece of work.

[Han Shot First]

Is and would Religion get in the way of such advancements in reality and in sci-fi? Just been wondering on how religions in the Mass Efect universe would deal with the everyday man/woman having implants and genetic engineering, AI's taking part in everyday life and actual alien life walking the streets.

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

Some would adapt and survive and others would fail to adapt, and perish.

As an example the Catholic Church once suppressed Galileo for advocating a heliocentric view, but now admits it was wrong and has a fairly progressive view towards science. The theory of evolution for example, is taught in Catholic schools. Old Testament stories like Genesis are no longer interpreted literally, but rather as allegory.

Some of the more fundamentalist of the Protestant sects however maintain the more medieval orthodox view towards science. These are the people who advocate 'Creation Science' (a hilarious oxymoron) and actually believe that man walked the Earth with dinosaurs 4,000 years ago in the Garden of Eden.

The more strongly religions cling to old fundamentalist beliefs the more likely it is that they'd die off as populations become more educated and humanity discovers more about the cosmos and its role in it. Religions that adapted to a more progressive view of science would survive in some fashion however. Relgion provides something that science does not, and never will: a hope for something greater beyond a mere mortal existence. Whether or not an afterlife or a higher power actually exists, therei s a psychological need for humanity as a whole to believe in it. I don't see that ever changing, as I think it is a very basic part of human nature. Religion has existed for millenia and will likely continue to exist millenia after own passing, assuming our species has managed to survive that long.

[Ahglock]

Hathur wrote...

i'm not a person of faith (agnostic by definition i suppose).. but if you are a person of faith, doesn't it make sense to you that your deity gave you (us, humans) intelligence with the ability to improve our way of life? why would your god create a species intelligent enough to improve themselves through technology if he / she / it didn't want you to do have the option to do it?

seems kinda silly to me to think that a god would make us smart enough to improve ourselves with medicine and technology and then forbid us from doing it.

People are born with a lot of traits some positive some negaive the purpose of a lot of religions is to guide you down a path toward what they see as positive traits.  You could just as easily say if you are a person of faith doesn't it make sense to you that your deity gave you the ability to kill and remove those who damge your life?  Why would your god give you this murderous rage if he didn't want to you kill.  Intelligence is really no different.  Being born with it is great, what you use it for is where the faith guides you.  Do you use it to create weapons, plant crops, plan a heist?  Where modifying yourself falls would likely be different in each religion.   

[VampireSoap]

Nowadays we have the fossil record, substantial astronomical discoveries and basically all other scientific evidence in almost all science disciplines, especially modern biology, physics and geography.

And yet, 1/3 of my countrymen still believe that 6000 years ago a talking snake tricked a lady into eating a magical apple, and then we were all doomed. So I'm not really sure a few alien ruins can eradicate the ancient ignorance.