200 réponses à ce sujet

[darkiddd]

VampireSoap wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

I'll try to explain again as better as possible because some people are misunderstanding what I mean:

First of all faith is to believe in something without evidence. And hope is to expect something or believe something will happen without evidence or even with evidence that disproves that what you hope is going to happen. For this matter faith and hope are basically the same thing.

Now faith is the pilar of any religion but you can have faith and not be religious. You can have faith in that your football team is going to win a championship even if it plays very bad or that your dad who is very ill is going to get better or that someday nobody will starve to death and there will be peace in the world someday. This are things many non-religious (and religious) people hope even when from a realistic and empirical point of view is something very difficult to achieve or impossible. But this is what hope is for, to motivate us and give us a purpose.

Everyone bases their existence on hope and faith in something be it religious or not. It gives some kind of sense to life so there will always be elements derivated from faith like (ding!) religion. In more or less intesity with more or less people but religion will always exist as well as agnosticism or atheism.

So ignoring religion would diminish a sci-fi story greatly. Yes sci-fi is sci-fi and it's not very realistic in some aspects but it always has lots of real elements from real life that allow us to "connect" with the story and characters. As I said these elements can be love, friendship, sacrifice, hate... Human emotions and elements. Faith is essential in this matter and a part of it manifests in religion.

I hope  to have explained it better this time. 

First of all, I was not aware that you could actually redefine "hope", and then say "faith" and "hope" are the same thing.

Secondly, along with millions of other people, I don't have faith. I have reasonable expectations based on evidence and reason. If my soccer team really sucks, I would not be fully convinced that they would win a championship because that's just stupid. If my dad is having a terminal disease, I would not sit down and pray for him, or take him to a voodoo doctor, because that's also stupid and would never help him.

Thirdly, not everyone thinks the same way you do. I have no idea how you got the idea of "everyone bases their existence on hope and faith in something" That's an extraordinary claim, and it requires extraordinary evidence.

Fourthly, I'm glad you realize that  faith is believing in something without evidence. That is exactly what gullibility is all about. If I say that I'm going to send a million dollars to your bank account, you just need to send me a token, say $200 for all the troubles. Would you just have faith in me, or would you ask me for evidence? People are always so careful with their bank accounts, but when it comes to the very thing that guides every aspect of their life, they become financial morons.

We were discussing if religion should be or not in sci-fi. I said it should be because it enriches the story and gave a number of reasons. You then answered me transforming this debate into a religion vs atheism argument. I gave my reasons and I think I made my point, but as you are so nitpicky with what I said then I'll also be nitpicky with what you answered.

First of all.

Definition of faith: 

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, ot trustworthiness of a person, idea or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. 

Definition of hope: 

1. A wish or desire accompanied by confident expectation of its fullfillment.
2. Something that is hoped for or desired.

How is this different from what I said? both have confidence in the truth of something but faith doesn't have proof while hope may or may not have it. The only thing I didn't mention was that hope could be based on evidence and frankly If I didn't wrote that was because I forgot to mention it.

Second.

I repeat it again. Everyone has faith in one thing or another. Me, you and everyone. Because faith is a part of human nature.  You may consider yourself more intelligent than other people because you only make expectations based on evidence and not fairytales, fine I'm not going to judge you. But consciously or subconsciously you have faith in the fullfilment of something that can't be proven empirically, be it friendship, love, or other thing. Even psicopaths have faith, a twisted and corrupted faith in that what they are doing is good (for them). Because human being tend to the good, but ignorance is what deviates us from good many times and we choose bad.

So everyone has faith, you for example have faith that religion doesn't exist without evidence that proves or disproves it.

Third.

As I said above the evidence I have to know that everyone has faith is human nature. You just have to think what moves everyone to do what they do. There's always a force that drives their acts. This force is faith and it gives them a purpose. It doesn't have to be religion, it just has to be an ultimate objective that gives sense to their life.
The only people that don't have faith in something (I hadn't thought about it the first time) are suicides or people who is in the brink of suicide or with a great depression.

Fourth.

Is it really bad to believe in a group of valors that trascend you and all that is material and guide your life and actually allow you to stand for something (especially when you stand for valors like peace, comprehension, forgiveness, and good in general). Again you don't have to be religious to stand for something, that for which you stand is your faith but religion is just a means to have a group of valors that guide you.

You are mistaking faith with stupidity, and then you mistakenly associate faith with religion, religion is based on faith but not all faith is in religion. As I said I'm not going to judge you but I think you should reconsider your point of view to at least respect those who have a religion. 

 

[XqctaX]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Amaterasuomikami wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

It would depend on the religion, but I don't see for example the Vatican having a panic attack. Certainly the Church has been increasingly comfortable with science, although of course they want people to not be obsessed with technology and forget their morality/faith.

The Mass Effect series is fairly upbeat about religion. The Asari are probably the most advanced race in the galaxy, and their faith is still very important to them.

Until Javik came along.

I LOL'ed so hard. this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better
and to be honest religion in my point of view should be mocked in one way or another to be belivable in a modern society.

for example you come across a backwash planet with a pretty low intelligence/ primitive race. then them beeing religious is fine.

the most advanced spacefaring races with contact with other races that from the start had other belifs, well I dont find it credible that they would continue to be religous..

Modifié par XqctaX, 27 mai 2012 - 12:21 .

[clipped_wolf]

XqctaX wrote...
 this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better

Becuase we haven't been disproven?
Know that old white guy with a bushy, white beard who speaks with a booming voice from a cloud in the sky?  No one belives in that god, don't insult and insinuate we do.

[BatmanPWNS]

XqctaX wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Amaterasuomikami wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

It would depend on the religion, but I don't see for example the Vatican having a panic attack. Certainly the Church has been increasingly comfortable with science, although of course they want people to not be obsessed with technology and forget their morality/faith.

The Mass Effect series is fairly upbeat about religion. The Asari are probably the most advanced race in the galaxy, and their faith is still very important to them.

Until Javik came along.

I LOL'ed so hard. this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better

That sounds very insulting.

[Getorex]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

XqctaX wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Amaterasuomikami wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

It would depend on the religion, but I don't see for example the Vatican having a panic attack. Certainly the Church has been increasingly comfortable with science, although of course they want people to not be obsessed with technology and forget their morality/faith.

The Mass Effect series is fairly upbeat about religion. The Asari are probably the most advanced race in the galaxy, and their faith is still very important to them.

Until Javik came along.

I LOL'ed so hard. this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better

That sounds very insulting.

It is true, however.  All the years (thousands?) of asari religion turns out to be prothean worship.  Their deity is a prothean.  Oops.  What a LOT of wasted time, effort, and lies tied to a religion based on worship/reference for a prothean.  Ouch.

And a LOT of religion in RL turns out to be similarly...nothing but oops.

Modifié par Getorex, 27 mai 2012 - 02:03 .

[Goneaviking]

Naughty Bear wrote...
In majority of sci-fi media, we are dealing with themes of Transhumanism, bioengineering, alien life, artficial life and many others that could resolve around the creation of species or the galaxy.

Religion is quite a complex topic and probably a taboo. And with so many religions each with their own view on how we should live our lives, is religion too much trouble and be ignored in future sci-fi media and in the future or is it important to sci-fi and our future?

Religious belief is a pretty significant influence on any culture, and the way the culture practices their religious leanings or reacts to them say a lot about the culture in question.

Provided that the subject is introduced into a work maturely, rather than being inserted as a simplistic and hamfisted analogy for whatever views the creator wishes to express, then religion can add a great deal of depth to a culture or lend important and alternate perspectives to topic under discussion that might otherwise be neglected.

They can also just be a component introduced to make a setting and/or character more interesting. Effinger did remarkably well with this in the Marid Audran novels for instance.

Religion only becomes a taboo issue because there are so many people who feel no compulsion to learn about other people's perspectives before expressing their contempt for diversity. We are all lessoned if we allow their immaturity to cordone off such a meaning issue from honest discussion.

Is and would Religion get in the way of such advancements in reality and in sci-fi? Just been wondering on how religions in the Mass Efect universe would deal with the everyday man/woman having implants and genetic engineering, AI's taking part in everyday life and actual alien life walking the streets.

In reality the religious practices of various cultures at differing times have acted both to encourage and restrict advancement in science, philosophy and arts. Generally it is acting as a reflection of the attitudes of society, or at least the interests of the more powerful factions within those societies. It's worth noting throughout our history religious institutions have provided great centers for learning and the exchange of ideas so the apparently popular conception of relgion as being anti-science is a very simplistic trope that ignores huge swathes of history.

As for the religions of Mass Effect dealing with such issues. Apparently they deal with it just fine. Religion is practiced by people and people adapt to new discoveries and new innovations, so it shouldn't be such a stretch to imagine religious bodies learning to deal with whatever conditions they're confronted with.

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

Which religion? There are too many to make a meaningful reply to this question beyond observing that any discovery of such importance would require a massive rethinking throughout all of society.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 27 mai 2012 - 02:35 .

[VampireSoap]

clipped_wolf wrote...

XqctaX wrote...
 this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better

Becuase we haven't been disproven?
Know that old white guy with a bushy, white beard who speaks with a booming voice from a cloud in the sky?  No one belives in that god, don't insult and insinuate we do.

No matter which god you believe, you are the ones who are making the claims. The burden of proof is on YOU. YOU have to first prove your claim with evidence, which none of you ever did, before anyone can disprove your assertions.

For example, if I claim that there is a teapot orbiting the sun, and you don't believe me, it would be absurd for me to ask you to disprove me before I give evidence to support that a teapot is in fact orbiting the sun.

Please check out Russell's Teapot:

Modifié par VampireSoap, 27 mai 2012 - 02:46 .

[VampireSoap]

Getorex wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

XqctaX wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Until Javik came along.

I LOL'ed so hard. this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better

That sounds very insulting.

It is true, however.  All the years (thousands?) of asari religion turns
out to be prothean worship.  Their deity is a prothean.  Oops.  What a
LOT of wasted time, effort, and lies tied to a religion based on
worship/reference for a prothean.  Ouch.

And a LOT of religion in RL turns out to be similarly...nothing but oops.

Exactly. Most religious people just don't understand that

"An atheist is just somebody who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor or Baal or the golden calf. We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”  ----  Evolutionary Biologist Richard Dawkins

Modifié par VampireSoap, 27 mai 2012 - 02:53 .

[VampireSoap]

darkiddd wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

First of all, I was not aware that you could actually redefine "hope", and then say "faith" and "hope" are the same

Secondly, along with millions of other people, I don't have faith. I have reasonable expectations based on

Thirdly, not everyone thinks the same way you do. I have no idea how you got the idea of "everyone bases their

Fourthly, I'm glad you realize that  faith is believing in something without evidence. That is exactly what gullibility is

We were discussing if religion should be or not in sci-fi. I said it should be because it enriches the story and gave

First of all.

Definition of faith: 

Definition of hope: 


Second.

I repeat it again. Everyone has faith in one thing or another. Me, you and everyone. Because faith is a part of

Third.

As I said above the evidence I have to know that everyone has faith is human nature. You just have to think what

Fourth.

Is it really bad to believe in a group of valors that trascend you and all that is material and guide your life and
 

I find it difficult to continue this conversation without asking you if you believe in Adam&Eve, or Jonan&Whale, or the Earth being 10,000 years old, or the sun orbiting the Earth.

If I do ask you those questions, Bioware won't be happy. (They said we were not supposed to talk about RL religions )

But if I don't, you'll never understand what I'm saying. You'll just repeat yourself over and over.

I just need to make one thing clear: You can play with terminology, talk about metaphysics, or how the supernatural inspires you for all day long. But in the end, when it comes to cold hard facts, you are going to find that your supernatural claims have nowhere to hide.

[XqctaX]

Getorex wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

XqctaX wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Amaterasuomikami wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

It would depend on the religion, but I don't see for example the Vatican having a panic attack. Certainly the Church has been increasingly comfortable with science, although of course they want people to not be obsessed with technology and forget their morality/faith.

The Mass Effect series is fairly upbeat about religion. The Asari are probably the most advanced race in the galaxy, and their faith is still very important to them.

Until Javik came along.

I LOL'ed so hard. this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better

That sounds very insulting.

It is true, however.  All the years (thousands?) of asari religion turns out to be prothean worship.  Their deity is a prothean.  Oops.  What a LOT of wasted time, effort, and lies tied to a religion based on worship/reference for a prothean.  Ouch.

And a LOT of religion in RL turns out to be similarly...nothing but oops.

you took the words out of my mouth.
it might sound insulting. but its really only my opinion.
for what its worth. atleast im honest and upfront with it

[Ahglock]

XqctaX wrote...

Getorex wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

XqctaX wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Amaterasuomikami wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

It would depend on the religion, but I don't see for example the Vatican having a panic attack. Certainly the Church has been increasingly comfortable with science, although of course they want people to not be obsessed with technology and forget their morality/faith.

The Mass Effect series is fairly upbeat about religion. The Asari are probably the most advanced race in the galaxy, and their faith is still very important to them.

Until Javik came along.

I LOL'ed so hard. this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better

That sounds very insulting.

It is true, however.  All the years (thousands?) of asari religion turns out to be prothean worship.  Their deity is a prothean.  Oops.  What a LOT of wasted time, effort, and lies tied to a religion based on worship/reference for a prothean.  Ouch.

And a LOT of religion in RL turns out to be similarly...nothing but oops.

you took the words out of my mouth.
it might sound insulting. but its really only my opinion.
for what its worth. atleast im honest and upfront with it

Yes, Yes.  We get it, you are a bigot.  Can Bioware close this thread since it is just packed with bigots spewing hate.  

[coldlogic82]

Literature has long been a medium which addresses any and all issues related to the "human condition."  Whether we like it or not, religion is part of the human condition.  There has never been a society without religion in the whole broad history of man. 

Beyond this, sci-fi specifically is a genre that tries to deal with complex moral issues that rise from technological progress.  It's true, you don't have to address religion to address morality or the complexity of technological moral issues, but because religion tends to be on the front lines of moral debate (once again, whether you think it should or should not isn't the point), it's something that often gets addressed with morality.  As we, as a species, continue to move into the future and improve our technology, a little thought on how religion and that technology might interact wouldn't be such a horrible thing.

[XqctaX]

clipped_wolf wrote...

XqctaX wrote...
 this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better

Becuase we haven't been disproven?
Know that old white guy with a bushy, white beard who speaks with a booming voice from a cloud in the sky?  No one belives in that god, don't insult and insinuate we do.

 i talked about How i percive those that are religious and how that correlates to my viewpoint of how and in what way i think it is acceptable too incorporate religion into a sci fi story, the very definition of this topic.

if its my opinion is insulting to you, i'm sorry that you feel that way.. But i stand fast in my opinion regardless.
please keep in mind that i adressed religious people in general.

and honestly from all the amount of different religions there is that contradicts eachother.,
a pretty darn high amount of those people in those beleifs are... well, wrong.

so i dont think its a far stretch of me to view those people as "thinking incorrect"
and use it as a reason towards my opinion about if religion has a place in science fiction.

heck even the definition of the genre Sci fi stands against religion

Science fiction[/b] is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginary but more or less plausible (or at least non-supernatural) content such as future settings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, aliens, and paranormal abilities. Exploring the consequences of scientific innovations is one purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas" 

[VampireSoap]

coldlogic82 wrote...

There has never been a society without religion in the whole broad history of man. 

Seriously, the communist China eradicated religion 70 years ago, only until the 90s did they start to learn about religion again. But still, the vast majority of Chinese today are agnostics or atheists.

And they were not alone for a very long time...Think about the former Soviet Union and all other communist states...

The Federation in Star Trek is actually a communist state (For example, they don't use money anymore and the government only has one "party")

So please, no more of this unwarranted assertion.....

[XqctaX]

Ahglock wrote...

XqctaX wrote...

Getorex wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

XqctaX wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Amaterasuomikami wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

How would religion accept this if we came into contact with an actual Mass Relay?

It would depend on the religion, but I don't see for example the Vatican having a panic attack. Certainly the Church has been increasingly comfortable with science, although of course they want people to not be obsessed with technology and forget their morality/faith.

The Mass Effect series is fairly upbeat about religion. The Asari are probably the most advanced race in the galaxy, and their faith is still very important to them.

Until Javik came along.

I LOL'ed so hard. this is how i see religoius people. they just dont know better

That sounds very insulting.

It is true, however.  All the years (thousands?) of asari religion turns out to be prothean worship.  Their deity is a prothean.  Oops.  What a LOT of wasted time, effort, and lies tied to a religion based on worship/reference for a prothean.  Ouch.

And a LOT of religion in RL turns out to be similarly...nothing but oops.

you took the words out of my mouth.
it might sound insulting. but its really only my opinion.
for what its worth. atleast im honest and upfront with it

Yes, Yes.  We get it, you are a bigot.  Can Bioware close this thread since it is just packed with bigots spewing hate.  

sorry but i fail to see were i showed hatred against religious people or in anyway dissaproved of your right to belive what you want to. i did however clearly state that i think you opinion is wrong.

you have every right to belive what you want, as Do I. and i belive that you are wrong.
i made a slight joke about not knowing the Facts. and a comparance to the toothfairy.
sure it might not have been the most respecfull way to voice my opinion.
but it was NOT filled with intolerance or animosity. 

i do strongly dissagree with your belive and im not going to be political correct about it. 
becouse i think that in its very essence is an insult to "freedom of speech" 

by the way calling someone a bigot is the very definition of beeing a bigot.
and religion sure has alot of hate-words they use against nonbelivers.

if you want to argue about religion and hate and the definition of my opinion about it your welcome to
mail me. but dont cry wolf to the mods becouse mybelive differs from yours and im open about it. 
i rather have you state you own opinion about the topic.

Modifié par XqctaX, 27 mai 2012 - 04:01 .

[Daennikus]

VampireSoap wrote...

coldlogic82 wrote...

There has never been a society without religion in the whole broad history of man. 

Seriously, the communist China eradicated religion 70 years ago, only until the 90s did they start to learn about religion again. But still, the vast majority of Chinese today are agnostics or atheists.

And they were not alone for a very long time...Think about the former Soviet Union and all other communist states...

The Federation in Star Trek is actually a communist state (For example, they don't use money anymore and the government only has one "party")

So please, no more of this unwarranted assertion.....

What coldlogic82 meant to say was that spiritual beliefs are always present in every society. Perhaps there is no nation-wide religious structure in China, but the Chinese do have a strong spiritual side and morals. They worship their ancestors and believe strongly in spirits coming from parallel worlds, life after death, and such things. 

I think that confusing religion with spirituality is a serious issue. 

Modifié par Daennikus, 27 mai 2012 - 05:00 .

[VampireSoap]

Daennikus wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

coldlogic82 wrote...

There has never been a society without religion in the whole broad history of man. 

Seriously, the communist China eradicated religion 70 years ago, only until the 90s did they start to learn about religion again. But still, the vast majority of Chinese today are agnostics or atheists.

And they were not alone for a very long time...Think about the former Soviet Union and all other communist states...

The Federation in Star Trek is actually a communist state (For example, they don't use money anymore and the government only has one "party")

So please, no more of this unwarranted assertion.....

What coldlogic82 meant to say was that spiritual beliefs are always present in every society. Perhaps there is no nation-wide religious structure in China, but the Chinese do have a strong spiritual side and morals. They worship their ancestors and believe strongly in spirits coming from parallel worlds, life after death, and such things. 

I think that confusing religion with spirituality is a serious issue. 

Please, it's not open for interpretations when he clearly wrote down the word "religion" ...Let's just talk about the facts, alright?

[MACharlie1]

VampireSoap wrote...

Daennikus wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

coldlogic82 wrote...

There has never been a society without religion in the whole broad history of man. 

Seriously, the communist China eradicated religion 70 years ago, only until the 90s did they start to learn about religion again. But still, the vast majority of Chinese today are agnostics or atheists.

And they were not alone for a very long time...Think about the former Soviet Union and all other communist states...

The Federation in Star Trek is actually a communist state (For example, they don't use money anymore and the government only has one "party")

So please, no more of this unwarranted assertion.....

What coldlogic82 meant to say was that spiritual beliefs are always present in every society. Perhaps there is no nation-wide religious structure in China, but the Chinese do have a strong spiritual side and morals. They worship their ancestors and believe strongly in spirits coming from parallel worlds, life after death, and such things. 

I think that confusing religion with spirituality is a serious issue. 

Please, it's not open for interpretations when he clearly wrote down the word "religion" ...Let's just talk about the facts, alright?

Source: Dictionary.com

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purposeof the universe,
 especially when considered as the creationof a superhuman agency or agencies, 
usually involvingdevotional and ritual observances, and often containing amoral code
 governing the conduct of human affairs
.2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generallyagreed upon by a number
 of persons or sects: the Christianreligion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefsand practices: a world council of 
religions.
4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion
.5.the practice of religious  beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

I'd say that's a pretty wide interpretation of "religion".  Chinese spirtualism falls within these parameters. Don't try to dispute that. 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 27 mai 2012 - 07:38 .

[XqctaX]

Daennikus wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

coldlogic82 wrote...

There has never been a society without religion in the whole broad history of man. 

Seriously, the communist China eradicated religion 70 years ago, only until the 90s did they start to learn about religion again. But still, the vast majority of Chinese today are agnostics or atheists.

And they were not alone for a very long time...Think about the former Soviet Union and all other communist states...

The Federation in Star Trek is actually a communist state (For example, they don't use money anymore and the government only has one "party")

So please, no more of this unwarranted assertion.....

What coldlogic82 meant to say was that spiritual beliefs are always present in every society. Perhaps there is no nation-wide religious structure in China, but the Chinese do have a strong spiritual side and morals. They worship their ancestors and believe strongly in spirits coming from parallel worlds, life after death, and such things. 

I think that confusing religion with spirituality is a serious issue. 

if you guys are arguing if religion is a belief system that has been pretty much present everywere or not in human society I have a something to add

I dont really care if the majorety of people that were/is on this planet were/is religious or not.
basically pointing out that just becouse something is generally agreed on by many that does not make it anymore or less true.

if anyone wants to argue about religion beeing real or not. please provide arguments that can stand on there own merit.  droping names of others with the same opinion does not make it more valid nor true no matter how many names are droped.

since i want this thread back on topic. ill end with this.

i do not think the story  in a science fiction should be based on or heavily involved with religion,
as i think i goes against the very essence of science 

however a science fiction can have religious individuals in it. but they should be a minority and...
well pretty much establiched in the story as "wrong in thier beliefs".

it pretty much depends on to what degree religion is present...

Modifié par XqctaX, 27 mai 2012 - 08:51 .

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

Like any other theme, if handled correctly of course it should be addressed/included.

[legion999]

XqctaX wrote...

Daennikus wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

coldlogic82 wrote...

There has never been a society without religion in the whole broad history of man. 

Seriously, the communist China eradicated religion 70 years ago, only until the 90s did they start to learn about religion again. But still, the vast majority of Chinese today are agnostics or atheists.

And they were not alone for a very long time...Think about the former Soviet Union and all other communist states...

The Federation in Star Trek is actually a communist state (For example, they don't use money anymore and the government only has one "party")

So please, no more of this unwarranted assertion.....

What coldlogic82 meant to say was that spiritual beliefs are always present in every society. Perhaps there is no nation-wide religious structure in China, but the Chinese do have a strong spiritual side and morals. They worship their ancestors and believe strongly in spirits coming from parallel worlds, life after death, and such things. 

I think that confusing religion with spirituality is a serious issue. 

if you guys are arguing if religion is a belief system that has been pretty much present everywere or not in human society I have a something to add

I dont really care if the majorety of people that were/is on this planet were/is religious or not.
basically pointing out that just becouse something is generally agreed on by many that does not make it anymore or less true.

if anyone wants to argue about religion beeing real or not. please provide arguments that can stand on there own merit.  droping names of others with the same opinion does not make it more valid nor true no matter how many names are droped.

since i want this thread back on topic. ill end with this.

i do not think the story  in a science fiction should be based on or heavily involved with religion,
as i think i goes against the very essence of science 

however a science fiction can have religious individuals in it. but they should be a minority and...
well pretty much establiched in the story as "wrong in thier beliefs".

it pretty much depends on to what degree religion is present...

And once again anything to do with religion devolves into "you're wrong" and/or "you're stupid". Unbelievable.

In answer your question OP if it can be done right then yeah it should be in sci-fi. It can add backstory and depth.

TLCR version; Religion should stay away from the internet but not necessarily sci-fi.

[saracen16]

RukiaKuchki wrote...

I think the two go together. Religion is one way of trying understand our place and find our way in a big scary place, and many science fiction themes are very similar i.e. people struggling to adapt to/understand things that they can't explain, control and/or are afraid of. Religion..or at least quasi-religious themes of identity, duty, sacrifice, ignorance...creeps into most science fiction. In the case of Mass Effect, humanity has branched out into the stars, technology has become the new religion...most follow blindly but there is, for some at least, that sense that what you see is only the surface of something much bigger and more malevolent, something that the individual is powerless against.

Pretty much how I see it, too.

[Chapity]

Absolutely religion should exist within sci fi. I understand, me agnostic and all, that the premise of religion in a sci fi can be sort of a put off, but when it works, it's awesome. Dune did a great job with it, as have a few others. Love the irony presented in this series, and ash was a good foil.

[RedRacoon]

Aside from the arguments for or against specific religions, ignoring them or tossing them out the window like John Lennon would so love to see is neglecting/destroying a part of what it means to be human(or any other sentient lifeform).

I do not think religion should be ignored or destroyed under any circumstances--related to technological advancement or not--and neither do I think it would be possible to do so. A wise sea otter once said in an alternate universe, "maybe, just believing in God makes God exist."

Modifié par RedRacoon, 28 mai 2012 - 03:58 .