281 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Vox Draco wrote...
what misconceptions? You think that five minutes of dialogue in the end should be the reason to abandon everything we have learned, seen and experienced inmany hours prior?

Five minutes? No. In ME1, we are introduced to the Reapers whose motives are said to be impossible to understand. We assume they want our extinction based on what happened to the protheans. The comes ME2 and we learn that the Reapers are not interested in destroying organics, they wish to make us like them. We don't know why and many people speculated they simply believed Reapers to be pinnacle of existence and everyone should become one.
Then comes ME3 and we heard from the Destroyer on Rannoch how the Reapers represent Order as opposed to the Chaos of organic life and how they are the only chance organics have to survive.
Finally, we meet the Catalyst and it explains that becoming a Reaper is the only way organic life can survive for an indefinite amount of time in this galaxy.
So, no. It's not five minutes, it's three games worth of development that make me reconsider my misconception of the Reapers and their actions.

But then you seem to think that the Reapers are "preserving" the races they HARVEST, and that this is a good thing? All I ever saw was men. women and children killed in the most horrorfying way possible...Guess this is a misconception as well. Okay...I don't want to think this way, it makes me a little sick...

Yes, it's horrible. But it's also likely that without the Cycle, Synthetics would have extinguished all organic life billions of years ago and Earth would have never spawned humanity.

[Duncaaaaaan]

Bill Casey wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

yeah, but at the end Shepard says "huh... the Illusive man was right all along".

A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe...

Alright, I get it, you're a really, really staunch defender of the indoctrination theory. No point aruing with you, it's worse than a brick wall as you can't consider alternative viewpoints.

[Zulmoka531]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...
Huge jumps in tech from studying active Reapers just seems like a great way to start even more war and genocide.

MORDIN ****ING SOLUS.

www.youtube.com/watch  - Mordin "Souls"

Ah my dear Scientist Salarian friend. His only regret was that he never found out who brought scale itch on the Normandy...

[Kunari801]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

You might have missed the bits where, you know, the Reapers were destroying entire civilizations, in horrible, horrible ways. Turning people into mindless monsters. Eliminating their personalities and turning them into tech zombies.

And the end result, a new Reaper, would be thoroughly indoctrinated to the Reaper cause and would be just a collection of AI's that THINK they're members of the original race. And that's just for one 'lucky' race. The others? just get wiped out.

It's entirely Paragon to wipe out the zombified, undead remains of previous civilizations that are under control of the biggest war criminal that could ever be imagined.

^That

If Shep must die, then have his LI find him in the rubble not have Shep disintegrate into nothingness and strand the LI on some far-off planet. 

I would like for the EC to have multiple ways for Shepard to live, at least one-per-color, allowing for us fans to create/speculate on Shepard's life post ME3.  

[MisterJB]

Master Xanthan wrote...
Because if you spend too much time near Reaper tech you can get indoctrinated.

And if you spent too much time near radiation, you get cancer. But we found a way around that and use nuclear energy to power out cities, don't we?

[Taboo]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...
Huge jumps in tech from studying active Reapers just seems like a great way to start even more war and genocide.

MORDIN ****ING SOLUS.

www.youtube.com/watch  - Mordin "Souls"

Ah my dear Scientist Salarian friend. His only regret was that he never found out who brought scale itch on the Normandy...

It was Chambers.

At least I think it was.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Thinking about synthesis and control makes me physically sick, these are terrible options, you fail as a human if you choose them. No one's will should be enforced upon another sentient being.

[Zulmoka531]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...
Huge jumps in tech from studying active Reapers just seems like a great way to start even more war and genocide.

MORDIN ****ING SOLUS.

www.youtube.com/watch  - Mordin "Souls"

Ah my dear Scientist Salarian friend. His only regret was that he never found out who brought scale itch on the Normandy...

It was Chambers.

At least I think it was.

Wouldn't surprise me. Hmm.. not doing tests...

[MisterJB]

Zulmoka531 wrote...
Huge jumps in tech from studying active Reapers just seems like a great way to start even more war and genocide.

Humanity jumped 200 years after we discovered the prothean archives on Mars and there wasn't any war or genocide. In fact, it united all nations on Earth and ushered a new golden age.

[Ageless Face]

Omanisat wrote...

Bioware may have told us this, but don't be fooled. It's very much a good/evil system. Renegade isn't a badass rogue cop, he's a govenment sanctioned psycohpath. 90% of the stuff he does is evil for evil's sake.

Well, that's true for ME1+2. It got fixed in ME3 (Why?!?). 

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Destroy is the only ending where the Reapers get destroyed.
Dead Reapers = Good.

Doing the Reapers job for them and letting them walk = DUMB

 

In control ending, you are not letting the reapers walk freely. You are controling them. Why kill the reapers and all the geth when you can use the reapers to help the organics, and let the synthetics live freely.

In synthesis, you are creating harmony between the synthetics and oganics. You don't need to destroy the reapers, because the war is already over.

Why destroy/kill the enemy is the only option to end a war? 

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...
Huge jumps in tech from studying active Reapers just seems like a great way to start even more war and genocide.

Humanity jumped 200 years after we discovered the prothean archives on Mars and there wasn't any war or genocide. In fact, it united all nations on Earth and ushered a new golden age.

That was one race.

What if the Salarians want the Reapers?

Or the Krogan?

Or the Turians?

[Thorn Harvestar]

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 25 mai 2012 - 09:57 .

[Bill Casey]

HagarIshay wrote...

In control ending, you are not letting the reapers walk freely. You are controling them.

I will never buy that...
That's just stupid...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 25 mai 2012 - 07:51 .

[Zulmoka531]

MisterJB wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...
Huge jumps in tech from studying active Reapers just seems like a great way to start even more war and genocide.

Humanity jumped 200 years after we discovered the prothean archives on Mars and there wasn't any war or genocide. In fact, it united all nations on Earth and ushered a new golden age.

Pretty sure they had a first contact war down the road...

[Aiyie]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Prove to me you can extract the data.

Don't be foolish.

Don't be short-sighted. If Synthesis frees them from the Catalyst's control, the possibility that we might be able to simply communicate with them exist. Think of how much we can learn.

funny enough, i believe TIM used that "Think of how much we can learn." line when he tried to convince Shepard not to blow up the collector base in ME2.

And I couldn't really see the whole point of just blowing up the collector base. Hatred got in the way of reason, blowing it up was simply out of revenge. Why not capture it and use the technology for your own benefit?

In fact, adding to this, people who say the reapers killed trillions and assimilated/transformed us into space zombies, again, you are letting blind hatred get in the way of reason.

wow, really channelling the illusive man pretty hardcore there bud.

or rather, the Reapers... since, you know, TIM is indoctrinated and all and is basically just a puppet of the Reapers.

Modifié par Aiyie, 25 mai 2012 - 07:56 .

[legion999]

MisterJB wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...
Huge jumps in tech from studying active Reapers just seems like a great way to start even more war and genocide.

Humanity jumped 200 years after we discovered the prothean archives on Mars and there wasn't any war or genocide. In fact, it united all nations on Earth and ushered a new golden age.

What about the Krogan then? And the Vorcha? And other races not ready for such advancements?
Also Reaper tech would jump us further a lot more than the Prothean archive.

And there was war and genocide. Over three games in fact.

Modifié par legion999, 25 mai 2012 - 07:54 .

[Duncaaaaaan]

Aiyie wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Prove to me you can extract the data.

Don't be foolish.

Don't be short-sighted. If Synthesis frees them from the Catalyst's control, the possibility that we might be able to simply communicate with them exist. Think of how much we can learn.

funny enough, i believe TIM used that "Think of how much we can learn." line when he tried to convince Shepard not to blow up the collector base in ME2.

And I couldn't really see the whole point of just blowing up the collector base. Hatred got in the way of reason, blowing it up was simply out of revenge. Why not capture it and use the technology for your own benefit?

In fact, adding to this, people who say the reapers killed trillions and assimilated/transformed us into space zombies, again, you are letting blind hatred get in the way of reason.

wow, really channelling the illusive man pretty hardcore there bud.

Okay, so leading my argument with logic and reasoning = I'm indoctrinated, I'm the Illusive man, etc etc.

State of the forums these days. I should have figured it was this lot that would stay behind, while everyone else moved on. 

Now I know why I just ducked and ran from this place about 3 months ago.

[legion999]

MisterJB wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...
Because if you spend too much time near Reaper tech you can get indoctrinated.

And if you spent too much time near radiation, you get cancer. But we found a way around that and use nuclear energy to power out cities, don't we?

Except the last time I checked I don't get irradiated from walking into or too near a nuclear power plant. I do get indoctrinated from going too close to Reaper tech however.

Modifié par legion999, 25 mai 2012 - 07:58 .

[Vox Draco]

MisterJB wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...
what misconceptions? You think that five minutes of dialogue in the end should be the reason to abandon everything we have learned, seen and experienced inmany hours prior?

Five minutes? No. In ME1, we are introduced to the Reapers whose motives are said to be impossible to understand. We assume they want our extinction based on what happened to the protheans. The comes ME2 and we learn that the Reapers are not interested in destroying organics, they wish to make us like them. We don't know why and many people speculated they simply believed Reapers to be pinnacle of existence and everyone should become one.
Then comes ME3 and we heard from the Destroyer on Rannoch how the Reapers represent Order as opposed to the Chaos of organic life and how they are the only chance organics have to survive.
Finally, we meet the Catalyst and it explains that becoming a Reaper is the only way organic life can survive for an indefinite amount of time in this galaxy.
So, no. It's not five minutes, it's three games worth of development that make me reconsider my misconception of the Reapers and their actions.

But then you seem to think that the Reapers are "preserving" the races they HARVEST, and that this is a good thing? All I ever saw was men. women and children killed in the most horrorfying way possible...Guess this is a misconception as well. Okay...I don't want to think this way, it makes me a little sick...

Yes, it's horrible. But it's also likely that without the Cycle, Synthetics would have extinguished all organic life billions of years ago and Earth would have never spawned humanity.

So you see the Reapers as benevolent to the galaxy? did you really think so even before you met the catalyst? Did this idea ever come to your mind before said five minutes? Where you really on Saren's side? Did you think at the time of ME2 that Harbinger was right to abduct those colonists? Did you think all this when those colonists on the collectors base were liquified and screamed of agony? Wow...just wow...don't know what to say actually...

Funny in a way. No, its not...or is it? Yes it is. Your justification for all the atrocities of the Reapers is still based on the last five minutes that introduce the synth vs. orga-conflict that may or may not have any basis on reality...you just take it for granted because the last five minutes say so. And ignore everything the game said so in the hours before. Quite selective point of view, but to each his own, I guess....

[MisterJB]

Zulmoka531 wrote...
Pretty sure they had a first contact war down the road...

Turian Imperialism in action. Humanity was not to blame.

[Xellith]

Listen to yourself... your're.. indoctrinated...

[Aiyie]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Prove to me you can extract the data.

Don't be foolish.

Don't be short-sighted. If Synthesis frees them from the Catalyst's control, the possibility that we might be able to simply communicate with them exist. Think of how much we can learn.

funny enough, i believe TIM used that "Think of how much we can learn." line when he tried to convince Shepard not to blow up the collector base in ME2.

And I couldn't really see the whole point of just blowing up the collector base. Hatred got in the way of reason, blowing it up was simply out of revenge. Why not capture it and use the technology for your own benefit?

In fact, adding to this, people who say the reapers killed trillions and assimilated/transformed us into space zombies, again, you are letting blind hatred get in the way of reason.

wow, really channelling the illusive man pretty hardcore there bud.

Okay, so leading my argument with logic and reasoning = I'm indoctrinated, I'm the Illusive man, etc etc.

State of the forums these days. I should have figured it was this lot that would stay behind, while everyone else moved on. 

Now I know why I just ducked and ran from this place about 3 months ago.

no... just saying, indoctrination or not, TIM's views are inherently immoral. 

by extension, those same things he advocates for are also tainted.

you're advocating for the same thing he does... practically word for word in fact.

**** Germany experienced a lower crime rate and unemployment rate than it ever had before, or since, under Hitler.  that does not justify his leadership or methods though.

the ends do not justify the means.  justice must have a place in this, and you seem to be disregarding it.

[MisterJB]

legion999 wrote...
What about the Krogan then? And the Vorcha? And other races not ready for such advancements?
Also Reaper tech would jump us further a lot more than the Prothean archive.

And there was war and genocide. Over three games in fact.

We will share the technology and attempt to school them in responsible use. But we will not halt our advancement because of other races.

And any war humanity was involved in did not come about due to technological advancement.

[Ageless Face]

Bill Casey wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

In control ending, you are not letting the reapers walk freely. You are controling them.

I will never buy that...
That's just stupid...

And shooting one tube which is destroying all the reapers is making more sense? 

No...

[Duncaaaaaan]

Aiyie wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Prove to me you can extract the data.

Don't be foolish.

Don't be short-sighted. If Synthesis frees them from the Catalyst's control, the possibility that we might be able to simply communicate with them exist. Think of how much we can learn.

funny enough, i believe TIM used that "Think of how much we can learn." line when he tried to convince Shepard not to blow up the collector base in ME2.

And I couldn't really see the whole point of just blowing up the collector base. Hatred got in the way of reason, blowing it up was simply out of revenge. Why not capture it and use the technology for your own benefit?

In fact, adding to this, people who say the reapers killed trillions and assimilated/transformed us into space zombies, again, you are letting blind hatred get in the way of reason.

wow, really channelling the illusive man pretty hardcore there bud.

Okay, so leading my argument with logic and reasoning = I'm indoctrinated, I'm the Illusive man, etc etc.

State of the forums these days. I should have figured it was this lot that would stay behind, while everyone else moved on. 

Now I know why I just ducked and ran from this place about 3 months ago.

no... just saying, indoctrination or not, TIM's views are inherently immoral. 

by extension, those same things he advocates for are also tainted.

you're advocating for the same thing he does... practically word for word in fact.

**** Germany experienced a lower crime rate and unemployment rate than it ever had before, or since, under Hitler.  that does not justify his leadership or methods though.

the ends do not justify the means.  justice must have a place in this, and you seem to be disregarding it.

How am I advocating TIM's views? TIM was prohuman at the expense of other alien races. All I was saying was that it is better to take an enemy's technology if it's superior to your own, disassemble it, see how it works, replicate it, and then use it. Instead of just blowing it all up. That's just wasteful.