550 réponses à ce sujet

[OblivionDawn]

frylock23 wrote...

It may be the best thing since sliced bread, but that still doesn't give you the right to choose to impose it on me.

Erm, this should be familiar -> My body; my choice.

Right, but given the option of destroying the Geth (after I saved them and gave them individuality, no less) or subjugating the Reapers (a whole sea of unknowns there), Synthesis is the best remaining option.

Or I could stand there and have a staring contest with the Catalyst until the Reapers completed the cycle.

[frylock23]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Icinix wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Right, please tell me who Synthesis hurts.

The second you chose it. Me.

I'll let everyone else speak for themselves - which is not something someone who chooses synthesis allows.

You're right, better to destroy an entire species (the Geth) without asking them what they think.

That's defintely the high road.

Why let people speak for themselves when you can just kill them.

Considering you prefer just rewriting everyone and everything at the genetic level to make them utterly other than what they are now, you've pretty much killed them, too.

What's a little thing like the genocide of one synthetic species to someone who's perfectly willing to utterly wipe out all organic and synthetic life in the entire galaxy in order to replace it with an unknown different kind of life? That's the biggest genocide of all.

[PsyrenY]

dreamgazer wrote...

And you're willing to enter into the conversation under the presumption that the catalyst is forthright towards his intentions, that he and the Reapers' purpose for the cycle will be forfeit---evolved, diverted, what have you---after all life shares a link? Inborn nature towards technology doesn't change so readily, and they've likely got thousands upon thousands of years of experience to show for it. 

The link isn't the point of synthesis. The speed of advancement is.

His job is to prevent organics from being annihilated by a tech singularity. If he (and I) make it so that organics can achieve singularity just as fast as synthetics can, mission complete. It's really that simple.

[frylock23]

OblivionDawn wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Right, please tell me who Synthesis hurts.

The people that live out of the range of a relay. Unless you're saying that the shockwave from the relay's detonation will just travel out infinitely and never dissipate, rendering the destruction of all the relays pointless.

Or everyone born AFTER the synthesis, unless you're saying that women now have mini production lines in their uteruses and implant cybernetics into unborn fetuses.

Implying anyone has cybernetics after they get hit by the shockwave.

Everyone is a seamless combination of both after Synthesis. I imagine that would make reproduction a different process.

Your 2 points only reinforce my own. If it's a "seamless combination" of both synthetic and organic "tissue", then the only conclusion I can come to is that organics are now cyborgs and the geth are growing organs in their bodies. What the hell else could it mean? It isn't a synthesis if it's only affecting 1 party, it's just augmentation.

Like the Catalyst says, Synthesis combines them into a "new framework." The word "synthetic" and "organic" are irrelevant after it happens, they are one in the same now.

a.k.a, you don't have organics with synthetic implants and you don't have synthetics with organs inside of them.

Yep, total galactic genocide! Your mother must be proud ... assuming that this new framework still allows for pride after synthesis.

[PsyrenY]

Abispa wrote...

2) "A new DNA." I HATE HATE HATE bad science. Did the writer know what DNA is? Or did s/he just assume the players are too stupid to know that the Catalyst's explanation makes no sense.

I agree, this phrase makes no sense.

Until you consider the pause. "A new... DNA." 

In short, he is trying to dumb things down for the mouth-breathing monkey standing in front of him. Just like Legion resorted to 1<2, 2<3 for the cute organic that thought it could parse quantum computing.

[o Ventus]

Optimystic_X wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

You're talking about weight, not mass.

Weight is a function of mass, for every entity that isn't in open space. Increase their mass, you increase their weight. So do you smash through a glass catwalk or not?

o Ventus wrote... 

Reave attacks the target's central nervous system. The healing is a gameplay element. Without it, it would just be a generic store brand DoT attack.

How do you "target their nervous system?" Lowering its mass, or raising it? As far as I knew, that was all the mass effect could do.

http://www.colorado....table/mass.html I lack the proper wording, so I'll just link this. You're also somewhat just arguing gameplay mechanics. Have you any idea how terrible games would be if they were 100% realistic with no suspension of disbelief?

2. I have no idea. I didn't write how the thing works. I never said it was "smart" or that it wasn't completely asinine, it just never struck me as space magic. Granted, I've always sort of ignored that it was a biotic power, because of the very same reason you mentioned. It's easier to just imagine it as a tech power, since it makes more sense as one.

[frylock23]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Gamble specifically said that there is no "best ending" regardless of EMS.

daecath wrote...

Sieg heil!

Can you... I dunno, find something other than Godwin to put in these threads? Anything.

Okies, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung?

[OblivionDawn]

frylock23 wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Icinix wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Right, please tell me who Synthesis hurts.

The second you chose it. Me.

I'll let everyone else speak for themselves - which is not something someone who chooses synthesis allows.

You're right, better to destroy an entire species (the Geth) without asking them what they think.

That's defintely the high road.

Why let people speak for themselves when you can just kill them.

Considering you prefer just rewriting everyone and everything at the genetic level to make them utterly other than what they are now, you've pretty much killed them, too.

What's a little thing like the genocide of one synthetic species to someone who's perfectly willing to utterly wipe out all organic and synthetic life in the entire galaxy in order to replace it with an unknown different kind of life? That's the biggest genocide of all.

You have a very distorted view of death.

And ethics.

I don't see how changing something = killing it.

And also, you claim to stand for the right and justice of choice, but...

frylock23 wrote...

What's a little thing like the genocide of one synthetic species

You make light of actually killing an entire species.

Please try to find some decent arguments.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 26 mai 2012 - 01:34 .

[moater boat]

legion999 wrote...

moater boat wrote...

legion999 wrote...

moater boat wrote...

because both Renegade and Paragon Shepard agree on one thing.
www.youtube.com/watch

Why did you link to Braveheart?

Are you really that dense? There is ONE word in that 12 second clip. Only one word, and you are still unable to figure out what I am saying?

Sorry as a Scottish person I usually blank out Braveheart. And dude chill out. Synthesis takes away freedom we get it.

Sorry, people who think they can control the lives of others really get my dander up.

[Zix13]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Synthesis affects everyone and everything. It's like sticking each individual person in a new body. Since you have no morals, I'll stop that argument there and continue with others. First off, synthesis doesn't end the reaper war. It doesn't prevent synthetics from being created. Also here's the point you have missed countless times, in caps, so you can pay more attention to it: YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SYNTHESIS ACTUALLY DOES. You do not know to what extent it modifies organics, nor do you know how invasive it is, nor do you know how it works, nor do you know that it has any advantages despite your claim of "higher stage of evolution" or w.e. You also seem to be using a different definition of evolution than I am. Putting protective gloves on isn't evolution, nor is grafting on a new arm, nor is putting green LEDs under your skin.  

You know for a fact that Synthesis blends organics and synthetics together.

You also know (based on the ending) that the event isn't traumatizing enough to cause people to start shrieking in horror, or to cause whatever apocalyptic scene you would like to see to support your feelings. Everyone seems pretty chill about being "invaded" and "raped" or whatever.

So I don't really see what point you're trying to make by saying it effects everyone. It makes everyone better, true. I don't see the problem in that though.

Also, my morals aren't part of this argument. I personally prefer the Destroy ending. I'm simply being the devil's advocate for Synthesis because I enjoy debating for the less popular side. Don't pass try to pass judgement on my morality just to support your weak arguments.

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
Please acknowledge...


Speaking of weak arguments, anything based of of the recycled soldier fistpump cutscene is pretty weak, as is basing it off the two? people you see walk of the Normandy with green glowing eyes(also recycled). Even with the soldiers, they may not have noticed because:
a)synthesis just might take some time
b)adrenaline
c)they were too confused about the green explosion and reapers leaving
All of which are very plausible.
Sample size for reaction to synthesis: one cripple romantically involved with a robot and one other who does the exact same thing in the other endings. Your premise for the "everyones cool with being violated" argument is about as valid as "God says so because I do".

Modifié par Zix13, 26 mai 2012 - 01:36 .

[dreamgazer]

Optimystic_X wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

And you're willing to enter into the conversation under the presumption that the catalyst is forthright towards his intentions, that he and the Reapers' purpose for the cycle will be forfeit---evolved, diverted, what have you---after all life shares a link? Inborn nature towards technology doesn't change so readily, and they've likely got thousands upon thousands of years of experience to show for it. 

The link isn't the point of synthesis. The speed of advancement is.

His job is to prevent organics from being annihilated by a tech singularity. If he (and I) make it so that organics can achieve singularity just as fast as synthetics can, mission complete. It's really that simple.

It's a component, but it's not the only thing to consider. And the notion of fusing the two together is far from simple, let alone the presumption that everything will go off without a hitch.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 26 mai 2012 - 01:43 .

[Abispa]

legion999 wrote...

Sorry as a Scottish person I usually blank out Braveheart. And, dude, chill out. Synthesis takes away freedom, we get it.

Captain America rejects "synthesis."

[legion999]

moater boat wrote...

legion999 wrote...

moater boat wrote...

legion999 wrote...

moater boat wrote...

because both Renegade and Paragon Shepard agree on one thing.
www.youtube.com/watch

Why did you link to Braveheart?

Are you really that dense? There is ONE word in that 12 second clip. Only one word, and you are still unable to figure out what I am saying?

Sorry as a Scottish person I usually blank out Braveheart. And dude chill out. Synthesis takes away freedom we get it.

Sorry, people who think they can control the lives of others really get my dander up.

It's cool. I usually just despair at said people though. Keeps my blood pressure low.

[PsyrenY]

o Ventus wrote...

http://www.colorado....table/mass.html I lack the proper wording, so I'll just link this.

You do realize that comic said exactly what I did, right? Or did you even read it?

o Ventus wrote...
You're also somewhat just arguing gameplay mechanics. Have you any idea how terrible games would be if they were 100% realistic with no suspension of disbelief?

The line on where to stop suspending disbelief is arbitrary. Obviously, mine goes further than yours - that doesn't mean Synthesis is the first example of space magic in the series.

o Ventus wrote...
2. I have no idea. I didn't write how the thing works. I never said it was "smart" or that it wasn't completely asinine, it just never struck me as space magic. Granted, I've always sort of ignored that it was a biotic power, because of the very same reason you mentioned. It's easier to just imagine it as a tech power, since it makes more sense as one.

So you agree that they are space magic then?

frylock23 wrote...

Okies, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung?

Anything that isn't German will do. It's still the same fallacy but it will at least have fresh wrapping paper.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 26 mai 2012 - 01:38 .

[legion999]

Abispa wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Sorry as a Scottish person I usually blank out Braveheart. And, dude, chill out. Synthesis takes away freedom, we get it.

Captain America rejects "synthesis."

Captain America? Pffft Captain Britain FTW!

[daecath]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Gamble specifically said that there is no "best ending" regardless of EMS.

daecath wrote...

Sieg heil!

Can you... I dunno, find something other than Godwin to put in these threads? Anything.

If the shoe fits.

Really, you have to be pretty blind not to see the themes. The reapers describe themselves as the pinnacle of evolution, which is what Hitler believed of the aryans. It's what we're supposed to believe is achieved by the merging of synthetics and organics.

Bigotry, prejudice, racism, etc. - they are all based on the belief that a specific group is somehow superior to all others, that they have nothing to contribute, and should be done away with. These beliefs preclude the possibility of peace with anyone who is different. Synthesis supports that premise. It states that it is impossible to achieve a lasting peace unless everyone is merged together to create some kind of hybrid race where everyone is the same. The only difference is that racists would never allow such a merging to take place, but if it were forced on them, they wouldn't have a choice. They would be the same as everyone else at that point, and would be forced to live with it and accept it, or kill themselves.

So yes, I find that option increadibly insulting, I think it greatly parallels various themes such as racism, but by validating many of the points of the racists, and I will point that out without feeling at all guilty.

[Abispa]

Nevermind. I don't want to get banned.

Modifié par Abispa, 26 mai 2012 - 01:43 .

[OblivionDawn]

Zix13 wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Synthesis affects everyone and everything. It's like sticking each individual person in a new body. Since you have no morals, I'll stop that argument there and continue with others. First off, synthesis doesn't end the reaper war. It doesn't prevent synthetics from being created. Also here's the point you have missed countless times, in caps, so you can pay more attention to it: YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SYNTHESIS ACTUALLY DOES. You do not know to what extent it modifies organics, nor do you know how invasive it is, nor do you know how it works, nor do you know that it has any advantages despite your claim of "higher stage of evolution" or w.e. You also seem to be using a different definition of evolution than I am. Putting protective gloves on isn't evolution, nor is grafting on a new arm, nor is putting green LEDs under your skin.  

You know for a fact that Synthesis blends organics and synthetics together.

You also know (based on the ending) that the event isn't traumatizing enough to cause people to start shrieking in horror, or to cause whatever apocalyptic scene you would like to see to support your feelings. Everyone seems pretty chill about being "invaded" and "raped" or whatever.

So I don't really see what point you're trying to make by saying it effects everyone. It makes everyone better, true. I don't see the problem in that though.

Also, my morals aren't part of this argument. I personally prefer the Destroy ending. I'm simply being the devil's advocate for Synthesis because I enjoy debating for the less popular side. Don't pass try to pass judgement on my morality just to support your weak arguments.

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER. 
Please acknowledge...


Speaking of weak arguments, anything based of of the recycled soldier fistpump cutscene is pretty weak, as is basing it off the two? people you see walk of the Normandy with green glowing eyes(also recycled). Even with the soldiers, they may not have noticed because:
a)synthesis just might take some time
b)adrenaline
c)they were too confused about the green explosion and reapers leaving
All of which are very plausible.
Sample size for reaction to synthesis: one cripple romantically involved with a robot and one other who does the exact same thing in the other endings. You're premise for the "everyones cool with being violated" argument is about as valid as "God says so because I do".

Joker doesn't embrace with EDI in any of the other endings. Sorry, misread that part of your post.

You call my arguments weak but your rebuttle consists of pure speculation and telling me that the actual ending is "weak" evidence for what happens in the actual ending.

No matter what you would like to speculate, you can clearly see that everyone isn't freaking out about being synthesized. That's just a fact.

And even if Synthesis didn't make everyone better, it would still be the lesser of all evils because it doesn't require the death of the Geth or the subjugation of the sentient Reapers (which is just as abhorrant as Synthesis, if you're so concerned about choice).

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 26 mai 2012 - 01:45 .

[Rip504]

Caveman-Us. Evolution.
Why assume evolution as some horrific event that alters everything? Evolution is a part of our everyday life,does it restrict,disrespect,impose,etc etc anything in anyway?

Synthesis will happen when you pick control or destroy,it will just take longer. The Catalyst felt that a synthetic race could wipe out all organics before they reach this point. Hence Synthesis jumps starts our evolution. Ending the Catalyst worries and ending the conflict.

We are Borg Understand?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29

images.search.yahoo.com/search/images

:lol::lol:Lol I do not pretend to understand synthesis. I consider it a jump start on Evolution,which may be as wrong as it is right. I need more information,which I hope the EC brings. I have not beaten ME3,because there is still information concerning the endings, that I do not have. So how can I beat or make an educated choice,when I do not have all of the information?

[phagus]

Put simply all three endings suck as we have no way of questioning the Starkid about these suicidal options or have any option but to trust in what he says.

However only Synthesis changes every multicellular lifeform (maybe even single celled organisms as well) in the galaxy into a hybrid. This is done without the consent of beings that can give it and on a much larger scale than just killing Synthetics with destroy.

Shep has no idea what the ramifications are other than the Reapers won't reap anymore and the Geth and EDI aren't killed..err unless the Starkid is lying.

So in summary I think we should be despising that kid and all his options not just Synthesis.

[matthewmi]

Optimystic_X wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

That's also fanart.

Yeah, Based on fact.

"Along with their suits, quarians also have extensive cybernetic augmentations integrated into their bodies."

For someone with a Quarian as their avatar to not even have basic knowledge like that is pretty jarring.

. 

Funny thing is the quarians chose to augment themselves a third party didn't make the decision for them.

[PsyrenY]

daecath wrote...

Really, you have to be pretty blind not to see the themes. The reapers describe themselves as the pinnacle of evolution, which is what Hitler believed of the aryans. It's what we're supposed to believe is achieved by the merging of synthetics and organics.

The comparison is still nonsensical. Aryans were objectively no better off than any other human, whatever Hitler believed; blond hair does nothing biologically but make you sunburn more easily. Hell, Hitler was proof of that - he stood above all of them, and last I checked he was pretty far from the ideal himself - no blond hair, no blue eyes, short etc.

But cybernetics/nanotechnology DO make you objectively better off. The Alliance implants all of its soldiers, not to create some kind of moronic master race ideal, but because it just makes them fight better and react faster. And if Synthesis is to be the solution the Catalyst claims it to be, it must enhance our minds as well, as that is the only way to keep us from "creating Synthetics, and the Chaos will come back." Once we have the mental capabilities of AI ourselves, we won't need AI - we won't even need the sort of heuristics that accidentally lead to AI, like the Geth's self-improvement algorithm.

Alternatively, we'll still have code like that, but we'll be able to use it on ourselves. Either way, we'll be able to keep pace with Synthetics instead of being run over.

[PsyrenY]

matthewmi wrote...

Funny thing is the quarians chose to augment themselves a third party didn't make the decision for them.

And if they hadn't done so they'd likely have died off due to their weak immune systems.
What if they weren't innately technologically savvy? What if only a few of them knew how to implant themselves? Wouldn't the ones without that knowledge welcome an "upgrade-beam?"

[dreamgazer]

Optimystic_X wrote...

matthewmi wrote...

Funny thing is the quarians chose to augment themselves a third party didn't make the decision for them.

And if they hadn't done so they'd likely have died off due to their weak immune systems.
What if they weren't innately technologically savvy? What if only a few of them knew how to implant themselves? Wouldn't the ones without that knowledge welcome an "upgrade-beam?"

What you're saying doesn't change the fact that they're controlled augmentations, most localized, and synthesis isn't.

[o Ventus]

matthewmi wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

That's also fanart.

Yeah, Based on fact.

"Along with their suits, quarians also have extensive cybernetic augmentations integrated into their bodies."

For someone with a Quarian as their avatar to not even have basic knowledge like that is pretty jarring.

. 

Funny thing is the quarians chose to augment themselves a third party didn't make the decision for them.

Never mind that the quarian's use of cybernetics is a little different than mass synthesis, since they are small-scale, contained implants rather than converting every single member of their species to a hybrid.