550 réponses à ce sujet

[Vigilant111]

ticklefist wrote...

Synthesis is awesome. It does not make everyone alike. Everyone is still unique. Turians are still Turian, only now they're Turians+. Humans are still Human, just now they're Human+. So on so forth. They homogenize the races no more than blood does. The technological upgrades, for lack of a better term, are blood 2.0 for the purposes of this story.

Edit: Sorry, synthesis is awesome in relation to the other, more terrible endings. It is still a bad ending.

Not fully human, not fully Turian, not fully anything, boy they might even grow a tail... there is no better human or Turian or anything better than the original self, even if it means that they will still make mistakes and do immoral things, but they are the most authentic self they could ever be, the TURE self

[The Night Mammoth]

Imposing the will of one person on everyone else. No choice, no deliberation, no consultation. You are irreversibly and with unknown consequences changing the very basics of life in its entirety based on four lines of dialogue from a character you just met and who shouldn't be trusted.

[Rip504]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Imposing the will of one person on everyone else. No choice, no deliberation, no consultation.

I'm sorry is there some poll,when you pick control/destroy. Or is one person choosing what is best for the entire galaxy? Imposing one's will?

[The Night Mammoth]

Rip504 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Imposing the will of one person on everyone else. No choice, no deliberation, no consultation.

I'm sorry is there some poll,when you pick control/destroy. Or is one person choosing what is best for the entire galaxy? Imposing one's will?

Control is not imposing your will on anyone. 

I do not pick destroy for the same reason I don't pick synthesis. 

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Imposing the will of one person on everyone else. No choice, no deliberation, no consultation.

I'm sorry is there some poll,when you pick control/destroy. Or is one person choosing what is best for the entire galaxy? Imposing one's will?

Control is not imposing your will on anyone. 

I do not pick destroy for the same reason I don't pick synthesis. 

Actually destroy is the only option that's not forcing one's will on everyone because everyone wants reapers dead

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...


Actually destroy is the only option that's not forcing one's will on everyone because everyone wants reapers dead

I'm forcing the Geth to die. I'm killing EDI. I will not choose destroy because mass murder is too high a price, presenting it as a viable solution to a problem is despicable. 

Control does not impose Shepard's will on anyone. 

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...


Actually destroy is the only option that's not forcing one's will on everyone because everyone wants reapers dead

I'm forcing the Geth to die. I'm killing EDI. I will not choose destroy because mass murder is too high a price, presenting it as a viable solution to a problem is despicable. 

Control does not impose Shepard's will on anyone. 

Not yet anyways, whats to stop the reapers from coming back? and besides all reaper tech should be destroyed no one in the galaxy is ready for that level of tech. Control is nothing but a trap.

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...


Actually destroy is the only option that's not forcing one's will on everyone because everyone wants reapers dead

I'm forcing the Geth to die. I'm killing EDI. I will not choose destroy because mass murder is too high a price, presenting it as a viable solution to a problem is despicable. 

Control does not impose Shepard's will on anyone. 

Yeah see? I am not forcing EVERYONE to die, and by the way it is the freakin' Catalyst's fault in offering me these crappy half-ass options

No, control NEGATES what everyone wants, u let reapers live

Modifié par Vigilant111, 26 mai 2012 - 01:10 .

[The Night Mammoth]

DinoSteve wrote...

Not yet anyways, whats to stop the reapers from coming back?

Being flown into the sun usually has adverse effects on one's condition. 

and besides all reaper tech should be destroyed no one in the galaxy is ready for that level of tech.

I'm not giving anyone Reaper technology. I'm building the Relays, reconstructing infrastructure, and then destroying them. Problem?

Control is nothing but a trap.

Prove it. I see the Citadel intact with the Crucible inside, and Reapers flying away. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Yeah see? I am not forcing EVERYONE to die, and by the way it is the freakin' Catalyst's fault in offering me these crappy half-ass options

Sure, if you want to destroy the Reapers, fine. I'd rather not murder a whole species and a good friend to do it, but to each their own. 

No, control NEGATES what everyone wants, u let reapers live

Everyone wants the Reapers stopped, and an intact galaxy to go back to. If I can give them all that and destroyed Reapers I call that a win. 

[antony1197]

OblivionDawn wrote...

justafan wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

The path to hell is paved with the best intentions.

How exactly is Synthesis the "path to hell?"

Tell me something would you want something like that to happen to YOU without ANY choice in the matter, shepard just made a choice that not only permanantly effected every living thing in the galaxy, but also without ANY consent.

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Yeah see? I am not forcing EVERYONE to die, and by the way it is the freakin' Catalyst's fault in offering me these crappy half-ass options

Sure, if you want to destroy the Reapers, fine. I'd rather not murder a whole species and a good friend to do it, but to each their own. 

No, control NEGATES what everyone wants, u let reapers live

Everyone wants the Reapers stopped, and an intact galaxy to go back to. If I can give them all that and destroyed Reapers I call that a win. 

Well, then u didn't win then cos they are not destroyed:), and there is no such thing as winning, cos so many lives were lost

[Vigilant111]

antony1197 wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

justafan wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

The path to hell is paved with the best intentions.

How exactly is Synthesis the "path to hell?"

Tell me something would you want something like that to happen to YOU without ANY choice in the matter, shepard just made a choice that not only permanantly effected every living thing in the galaxy, but also without ANY consent.

"path to hell" is not preferred for artistic integrity;)

[Jamie9]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Well, then u didn't win then cos they are not destroyed:), and there is no such thing as winning, cos so many lives were lost

They are though. He flew them into a sun, a black hole, or maybe even a supernova. No more Reapers. Geth still intact. Optimal ending if paragon character IMO.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

DinoSteve wrote...

Not yet anyways, whats to stop the reapers from coming back?

The Night Mammoth wrote...
Being flown into the sun usually has adverse effects on one's condition. 

How do you know that you actually gain control of the reapers?

DinoSteve wrote...
and besides all reaper tech should be destroyed no one in the galaxy is ready for that level of tech.

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I'm not giving anyone Reaper technology. I'm building the Relays, reconstructing infrastructure, and then destroying them. Problem?

But the citadel and the relays are reaper tech. Not to mention all the destroyed reapers lying about.

DinoSteve wrote...
Control is nothing but a trap.

The Night Mammoth wrote...
Prove it. I see the Citadel intact with the Crucible inside, and Reapers flying away. 

You prove that the starchild wasn't lying, and that in trying to control the reapers Shepard doesn't end up being controlled, and if what you say is true how long till Shepards morality is eroded away and he comes to the same conclusion as the starchild, that the galaxy must be harvested.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 26 mai 2012 - 01:27 .

[LadyWench]

Well, I won't pretend to speak for anyone but myself. I also did two playthroughs (that I completed...couldn't bring myself to do any more) and the first time around I choose synthesis only because the ending was confusing and 1.) it SEEMED like MAYBE the lesser of 3 evils in the heat of the moment and 2.) I don't think I fully comprehended what would happen (e.g. fake science magic) and didn't quite expect the conclusion cut scenes I got. I was already pretty confused and unhappy with the way things were going and didn't much care for the fact that Shep was just like, okay, sure to all the crappy options,but I tried to do what I thought was the most Paragon choice--compromise.

Upon reflection, I realized the only thing compromised was my Shep's autonomy and, well, the integrity of EVERYONE in the galaxy. Synthesis and the arguments for it presented by the Catalyst were the same thing Saren had been telling my Shep all along. SO, by choosing the Synthesis ending, it completely invalidated the rest of the series up to that point, because it was like, "Whelp, I guess I'm an ass for defeating Sovereign in the first game. Saren was right and I was clearly wrong to delay the inevitable (ironysarcasmirony)." And knowing that I spent all that time and effort in an endeavor against what the devs decided was the"perfect" ending? And under the insulting assumption that organics and synthetics could never get along (which my Shep also would have argued was a crock and I had united the Geth and Quarians and had EDI)? Up until that point, ME was all about celebrating our differences and that diversity is a strength, not a weakness. It's so forehead-smackingly lore breaking, I can't believe it made it past the brainstorming stage and into a final draft.

Nevermind that it's not even scientifically/medically/magically/common sensically possible to do Synthesis...

Anyway, thats why I didn't like it and, frankly, found it upsetting.

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Yeah see? I am not forcing EVERYONE to die, and by the way it is the freakin' Catalyst's fault in offering me these crappy half-ass options

Sure, if you want to destroy the Reapers, fine. I'd rather not murder a whole species and a good friend to do it, but to each their own. 

No, control NEGATES what everyone wants, u let reapers live

Everyone wants the Reapers stopped, and an intact galaxy to go back to. If I can give them all that and destroyed Reapers I call that a win. 

Well, then u didn't win then cos they are not destroyed:), and there is no such thing as winning, cos so many lives were lost

As I said before, being flown into the sun doesn't tend to be good for the health. 

[Vigilant111]

Jamie9 wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Well, then u didn't win then cos they are not destroyed:), and there is no such thing as winning, cos so many lives were lost

They are though. He flew them into a sun, a black hole, or maybe even a supernova. No more Reapers. Geth still intact. Optimal ending if paragon character IMO.

Yes but u NEED to control the reapers to maintain galactic peace, because the reapers are the best weapons in the galaxy, you cannot just trick Catalyst like that cos u are a paragon, like when u choose control what u really meant was destroy:devil:

Modifié par Vigilant111, 26 mai 2012 - 01:33 .

[Vigilant111]

hey where did u get "flying into the sun" from? I didn't get a memo saying I could do so

[streamlock]

From an in game standpoint-Synthesis is pretty much the antithesis of just about every theme in ME.

From an out of game standpoint-Synthesis is the antithesis of just about everything most western cultures stand for (for better or worse). A reason it just 'feels' so wrong. (Someone with a better background in sociology would need to expand on this to get the wording correct)

I've made the argument with friends that if you took the ending/s and tacked them onto the end of ME1-it would actually fit fairly well, EXCEPT for the synthesis ending-which is just whack. (and the damn machina trope-that is just inexcusable in any narrative).

There are of course some arguments to be made to the practicality of the whole ordeal in the context of the ME universe-but I consider those secondary.

[The Night Mammoth]

DinoSteve wrote...


How do you know that you actually gain control of the reapers?

I see the Reapers fly away whilst the Citadel closes up with the Crucible intact within. We already know the Reapers can be controlled, the Illusive Man proves it. 

Looking at the intention behind control, it's obvious that the writer meant for Shepard to effectively become the new Catalyst, that she has control of the Reapers. 

The extent and duration is up to you to decide. 

But the citadel and the relays are reaper tech.

Doesn't bother me. The origin of such passive technology matters not. 

Not to mention all the destroyed reapers lying about.

If their hulks pose a threat I'll deal with them, if not, the species of the galaxy can do what they will. 

You prove that the starchild wasn't lying, and that in trying to control the reapers Shepard doesn't end up being controlled, and if what you say is true how long till Shepards morality is eroded away and he comes to the same conclusion as the starchild, that the galaxy must be harvested.

Nope. I'm secure in my speculation for the outcome of control, you're the one with the problem of not liking it. You made the claims, you prove how the the opposite of the above is true. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

hey where did u get "flying into the sun" from? I didn't get a memo saying I could do so

Probably because you don't think Shepard can control the Reapers. 

I do, therefore once I'm done with them, the sun it is. 

[Reign Tsumiraki]

Vigilant111 wrote...

hey where did u get "flying into the sun" from? I didn't get a memo saying I could do so

"The reapers will obey me?"

"Yes"

[Sir MOI]

Please stop with the "playing god is baaaad" ****. Seriously! This is the kind of Christian moral concept that everybody agrees with but never really thinks about it...
YES I DO WANT TO PLAY GOD.
If we could "play god" as some of you say we would have built a much better world much more suited for us with much more perfect beings, much more evoluated and happy population.

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Yes but u NEED to control the reapers to maintain galactic peace, because the reapers are the best weapons in the galaxy, you cannot just trick Catalyst like that cos u are a paragon, like when u choose control what u really meant was destroy:devil:

Galactic peace? Why would I want that? I'm not imposing my beliefs on anything. If war breaks out let others deal with it, I'm not turning into a dictator.