550 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

Sir MOI wrote...

Please stop with the "playing god is baaaad" ****. Seriously! This is the kind of Christian moral concept that everybody agrees with but never really thinks about it...
YES I DO WANT TO PLAY GOD.
If we could "play god" as some of you say we would have built a much better world much more suited for us with much more perfect beings, much more evoluated and happy population.

Who's the one playing god? What are his/her intentions, ideals, motives? What if I or others don't want percieved changes wrought upon us? 

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Yes but u NEED to control the reapers to maintain galactic peace, because the reapers are the best weapons in the galaxy, you cannot just trick Catalyst like that cos u are a paragon, like when u choose control what u really meant was destroy:devil:

Galactic peace? Why would I want that? I'm not imposing my beliefs on anything. If war breaks out let others deal with it, I'm not turning into a dictator. 

Well then I guess your Shepard is just not that idealistic a person^_^

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Yes but u NEED to control the reapers to maintain galactic peace, because the reapers are the best weapons in the galaxy, you cannot just trick Catalyst like that cos u are a paragon, like when u choose control what u really meant was destroy:devil:

Galactic peace? Why would I want that? I'm not imposing my beliefs on anything. If war breaks out let others deal with it, I'm not turning into a dictator. 

Well then I guess your Shepard is just not that idealistic a person^_^

She is. 

Her ideals don't extend to using the Reapers as a galactic police-force to impose her ideals on the galactic community.

[Vigilant111]

Just like the way she tells the United Nations to f**k off and mind its own business and kick the needy to the kerb

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Just like the way she tells the United Nations to f**k off and mind its own business and kick the needy to the kerb

I don't recall doing anything remotely similar to that. 

[Helios969]

DinoSteve wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...


Actually destroy is the only option that's not forcing one's will on everyone because everyone wants reapers dead

I'm forcing the Geth to die. I'm killing EDI. I will not choose destroy because mass murder is too high a price, presenting it as a viable solution to a problem is despicable. 

Control does not impose Shepard's will on anyone. 

Not yet anyways, whats to stop the reapers from coming back? and besides all reaper tech should be destroyed no one in the galaxy is ready for that level of tech. Control is nothing but a trap.

My thoughts exactly.  Once sheppard sheds his/her humanity, he/she could come to same conclusion star child does and start an entirely new cycle of organic erradication.  It's most definitely a trap.  Destroy is the only viable option.  It totally sucks that I have to sacrifice Geth and EDI in process, but I'm not sure Geth and EDI would not reach same conclusion.  Both know what it's like to be controlled without freewill.  Geth were controlled by Reapers and didn't like it.  EDI was shackled by Cerberus and didn't like it.  Not being consulted and given a choice toward synthesis is faciscim at its worst.  Control is only slightly better than synthesis, but it has far reaching and dangerous consequences.  It makes me think the writers intent was to force the players to take are a hard look at our own value systems (something I don't appreciate.)  Why there wasn't an option for peaceful coexistence is beyond my comprehension.  It's a pipe dream, but since I'm the consumer the game should be taylored to my desires and not the nihilistic and dismal future some writer sees for humanity.

[xbb1024]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Yes but u NEED to control the reapers to maintain galactic peace, because the reapers are the best weapons in the galaxy, you cannot just trick Catalyst like that cos u are a paragon, like when u choose control what u really meant was destroy:devil:

Galactic peace? Why would I want that? I'm not imposing my beliefs on anything. If war breaks out let others deal with it, I'm not turning into a dictator. 

Well then I guess your Shepard is just not that idealistic a person^_^

She is. 

Her ideals don't extend to using the Reapers as a galactic police-force to impose her ideals on the galactic community.

I would support keeping the reapers, but not as a police force.

Firstly, nobody will accect an authority figure that is physically made from the remains of your dead relatives.

But more importantly, the reapers have been constant and continual across many cycles. Imagine the knowledge they must have aquired. The most practical and immediate application would be to rebuild the relays. After this, the knowledge they must hold would propel civilization in the galaxy forward in incomprehensible ways (the illusive man was correct on this point).

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Just like the way she tells the United Nations to f**k off and mind its own business and kick the needy to the kerb

I don't recall doing anything remotely similar to that. 

Of course, that was in one of the previous cycles

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Just like the way she tells the United Nations to f**k off and mind its own business and kick the needy to the kerb

I don't recall doing anything remotely similar to that. 

Of course, that was in one of the previous cycles

Your point?

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Just like the way she tells the United Nations to f**k off and mind its own business and kick the needy to the kerb

I don't recall doing anything remotely similar to that. 

Of course, that was in one of the previous cycles

Your point?

Shepard is supposed to care a little bit more

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Shepard is supposed to care a little bit more

Shepard does care, hence control.

[redbaron76]

That were the OP is wrong the final step of evolution for oranics is to become beings of pure energy, not partialy syntetic.

[F00lishG]

Because when people say stop the Reapers at all cost, they don't really mean it.

[Rip504]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Imposing the will of one person on everyone else. No choice, no deliberation, no consultation.

I'm sorry is there some poll,when you pick control/destroy. Or is one person choosing what is best for the entire galaxy? Imposing one's will?

Control is not imposing your will on anyone. 

I do not pick destroy for the same reason I don't pick synthesis. 

How can you clearly tell me that the majority of the galaxy does not want the reapers destroyed? You can not. Therefor you are opposing your will by keeping them alive. You feel it is right,when potentially the rest of the galaxy does not. How is this not imposing your will on others?

You are the new Catalyst and consider this to be correct. When virtually no one trusts or wants to believe our current Catalyst,why should they trust or believe you? Why would this change? Just because you say it should ,and you had the power to make it happen?

The majority of the galaxy may oppose any type of new Catalyst and Reaper survival. But your will states differently and now the entire galaxy has to live with your decision.

It is very similar.

[AtlasMickey]

BioWare doesn't explain what Synthesis is in much fidelity. People fear what they don't understand.

[Jamie9]

Rip504 wrote...

How can you clearly tell me that the majority of the galaxy does not want the reapers destroyed? You can not. Therefor you are opposing your will by keeping them alive. You feel it is right,when potentially the rest of the galaxy does not. How is this not imposing your will on others?

You are the new Catalyst and consider this to be correct. When virtually no one trusts or wants to believe our current Catalyst,why should they trust or believe you? Why would this change? Just because you say it should ,and you had the power to make it happen?

The majority of the galaxy may oppose any type of new Catalyst and Reaper survival. But your will states differently and now the entire galaxy has to live with your decision.

It is very similar.

Okay, I'll explain this again.

He plans to take control of the Reapers, rebuild the Mass Relays etc. then fly the Reapers into a sun/black hole/supernova.

Therefore it has the benefits of destroy but none of the cons. All you have to do is sacrifice Shepard.

[xbb1024]

Rip504 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Imposing the will of one person on everyone else. No choice, no deliberation, no consultation.

I'm sorry is there some poll,when you pick control/destroy. Or is one person choosing what is best for the entire galaxy? Imposing one's will?

Control is not imposing your will on anyone. 

I do not pick destroy for the same reason I don't pick synthesis. 

How can you clearly tell me that the majority of the galaxy does not want the reapers destroyed? You can not. Therefor you are opposing your will by keeping them alive. You feel it is right,when potentially the rest of the galaxy does not. How is this not imposing your will on others?

You are the new Catalyst and consider this to be correct. When virtually no one trusts or wants to believe our current Catalyst,why should they trust or believe you? Why would this change? Just because you say it should ,and you had the power to make it happen?

The majority of the galaxy may oppose any type of new Catalyst and Reaper survival. But your will states differently and now the entire galaxy has to live with your decision.

It is very similar.

If you destroy the Reapers, all you get is the satisfaction of destroying the Reapers (and at the expence of all synthetic life forms). If you control the Reapers, and assuming your will is preserved when you do, then you get access to a tremendous resource.

Also, the Catalyst only revealed itself as an AI to Shepard. To the rest of the galaxy, the catalyst is just some space station.

[The Night Mammoth]

Rip504 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Imposing the will of one person on everyone else. No choice, no deliberation, no consultation.

I'm sorry is there some poll,when you pick control/destroy. Or is one person choosing what is best for the entire galaxy? Imposing one's will?

Control is not imposing your will on anyone. 

I do not pick destroy for the same reason I don't pick synthesis. 

How can you clearly tell me that the majority of the galaxy does not want the reapers destroyed? You can not. Therefor you are opposing your will by keeping them alive. You feel it is right,when potentially the rest of the galaxy does not. How is this not imposing your will on others?

You assume I want to keep the Reapers alive indefintely. You assume stopping the Reapers, which was everyone's specified goal, is the same as destroying them.

Both assumptions are wrong. 

You are the new Catalyst and consider this to be correct. When virtually no one trusts or wants to believe our current Catalyst,why should they trust or believe you? Why would this change? Just because you say it should ,and you had the power to make it happen?

No else knows about the previous Catalyst. All they know is that Shepard controls the Reapers. Here, have some new Relays guys, I have some Reapers to remotely fly into the nearby sun. 

I don't care about trust. It can be earned, and I think Shepard has gone a little bit towards that. 

The majority of the galaxy may oppose any type of new Catalyst and Reaper survival. But your will states differently and now the entire galaxy has to live with your decision.

It is very similar.

I'm not imposing it on anyone. Synthesis imposes change, Destroy imposes death on a whole species. 

Control imposes nothing on anyone. You don't want help? Fine, I'll rebuild that Relay and leave. You don't want the Reapers to stay alive? Fine, I have that base covered too. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 26 mai 2012 - 02:36 .

[RavenEyry]

F00lishG wrote...

Because when people say stop the Reapers at all cost, they don't really mean it.

"Nothing will stop me from destroying the reapers! Unless a suspicious being taking the form of a child I told no one about tells me not to of course."

[Aiyie]

xbb1024 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Yes but u NEED to control the reapers to maintain galactic peace, because the reapers are the best weapons in the galaxy, you cannot just trick Catalyst like that cos u are a paragon, like when u choose control what u really meant was destroy:devil:

Galactic peace? Why would I want that? I'm not imposing my beliefs on anything. If war breaks out let others deal with it, I'm not turning into a dictator. 

Well then I guess your Shepard is just not that idealistic a person^_^

She is. 

Her ideals don't extend to using the Reapers as a galactic police-force to impose her ideals on the galactic community.

I would support keeping the reapers, but not as a police force.

Firstly, nobody will accect an authority figure that is physically made from the remains of your dead relatives.

But more importantly, the reapers have been constant and continual across many cycles. Imagine the knowledge they must have aquired. The most practical and immediate application would be to rebuild the relays. After this, the knowledge they must hold would propel civilization in the galaxy forward in incomprehensible ways (the illusive man was correct on this point).

1) you don't know if taking control of the Reaper's will actually end the cycle.  you don't know if you'll retain any of your values or self of self.  for all you know you could take control of the reapers and end up embracing their ideals as part of the process.

2) it doesn't matter if anybody accepts the reapers as a police force or not... the reapers have bigger guns.  its pretty obvious what will happen to anybody who resists... especially now that Shep is out of the picture.

3) its pretty idealistic and naive to just assume that taking control of the reapers will automatically make their knowledge unversally available.  please refer back to my first points for just a handful of reasons as to why.

[Rip504]

xbb1024 wrote...
1-You assume I want to keep the Reapers alive indefintely. You assume stopping the Reapers, which was everyone's specified goal, is the same as destroying them.


2-No else knows about the previous Catalyst. All they know is that Shepard controls the Reapers. Here, have some new Relays guys, I have some Reapers to remotely fly into the nearby sun. 

I don't care about trust. It can be earned, and I think Shepard has gone a little bit towards that.

3-I'm not imposing it on anyone. Synthesis imposes change, Destroy imposes death on a whole species. 

Control imposes nothing on anyone. You don't want help? Fine, I'll rebuild that Relay and leave. You don't want the Reapers to stay alive? Fine, I have that base covered too.

1-I did not assume either. No matter your goal,you may still be imposing your will. If you can not see this,I no longer need to discuss it.

2-Do not speak of assumptions,and then base your comments on assumptions. It carries no weight.
A. No one knows of the catalyst,but they all know Shepard is the new Catalyst? BIU-Imposing your will.

3- Yes you are,and duh to the other two.

You are making a choice and deeming it the best and correct choice for all. How is this not imposing your will?
Your plans and goals do not matter. You do not care about trust,it is also obvious you do not care for opinion. Your choice is the right one,and if the galaxy can't see it they are blind.

Now for speculation,since your post for control is based entirely on speculation.

What if Shepard is to weak to assume full control? Like Tim Shepard fails to control the Reapers. Maybe not to the same degree,but let's not assume. Since your obviously against assumptions,except for when they help your case. What if Shepard can only control them to a degree,and the Reapers start to gain freewill? What if it takes centuries for Shepard to learn how to fully control the Reapers? You make a lot of assumptions concerning Control. What are they based on? 1 line? Will the Reapers obey me? Yes. Did it state how or when? Maybe the galaxy no longer wants Reapers or Reaper tech in their galaxy. They may want to rebuild the Relays using their own tech etc.

Edit: Control also imposes Shepard will upon the Reapers,making Shepard a lesser evil Catalyst potentially. The Reapers are the Catalyst tools/slaves. Why do you feel it is ok,right,and accepted by everyone to do the exact same thing?

Jamie9 wrote...
(Sarcasm?)

If the Galaxy does not want the Reapers alive,Shepard will has been imposed. No matter if Shepard plans to fly into a sun. There is absolutely no reason to trust the new Catalyst,just because it tells us to. That is imposing it's will. A current problem with our current endings.
End Edit:


When you make a choice for someone else against their will,you are indeed imposing your will.!.
                                                      ..
:wizard:Well twitter already suggest that the catalyst may not be telling the entire truth.
                                                                                 ..

Modifié par Rip504, 26 mai 2012 - 03:10 .

[Vigilant111]

@Mammoth: I think what Rip504 is saying is that u have the potential of being a dictator because u control the reapers, u say u r not going to use them for bad things, but u may be tempted and change your mind in the future

[Vizard355]

Synthetics are synthetic they do NOT have DNA. Evolution is adaptation, NOT ascension. The fact that the catalyst called synthesis "The final evolution of life" shows how much crap he's filled with. He states "everything you are will be absorbed, then sent out. The chain reaction will combine organic and synthetic life to create a new framework, a new DNA." Tell me how that isn't homogenizing the galaxy if everything Shepard is is absorbed and sent out. Also a "chain reaction" has no place in this scenario. On top of that synthesis is just the ending to Transformers: Beast Machines.

[Jamie9]

@Rip504

First, I want to point out that I consider Control to be the best option. That doesn't mean it IS the best option. This is all purely my opinion, don't think I'm trying to say everyone should pick what I pick.

Yes, control imposes your will onto the Reapers. The Reapers aren't 'alive' to me, so I don't consider that an atrocity. They are mockeries of the species they harvested.

Making a decision does not equal imposing your will. I made the Quarians and the Geth work together. Is that imposing my will? If I never intervened in anything, the galaxy would be in a terrible place. I just try to intervene to help people, and not cause them suffering or loss of free will.

As evidenced by the game, Shepard at least has enough power to move the Reapers. So at the very least I can fly them into a sun. Rebuilding the Relays is wishful thinking. Twitter said you could, but that's not a canon source. Remember, it is implied that in Control, the Relays are slightly less damaged, so maybe the Allies can do it themselves.

But even if I couldn't do that, I've destroyed the Reapers without causing the genocide of the Geth, or the homogenization of the galaxy. A paragon move if ever I saw one.

[Skirlasvoud]

Because forcing evolution and imposing your will on what the ultimate form of life needs to be, is a slippery moral slope.

I'm sure Hitler would disagree with me however.


And as others have said... there is no pinnacle of evolution. Evolution is the constant adaptation to a specific set of circumstances. As we're living in a constantly changing universe, there is no zenith.

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 26 mai 2012 - 03:44 .