550 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth333]

I despised the starchild and the "press a button to choose your ending" in ME3 but the synthesis option brought the nonsense space magic to a new level: jump into a beam and suddenly everyone becomes half robot...

Modifié par Darth333, 25 mai 2012 - 10:12 .

[frylock23]

I dislike it for a lot of already stated reasons, and I also dislike it because it's slightly offensive from another angle. It's a poorly done religious creation myth that posits Shepard literally as God. In that sense, it's the ultimate secular humanist fantasy where man (Shepard) replaces God and perfects his Creation complete with Joker and EDI as Adam and Eve.

And of course, violation of consent, the idea that a bunch of technologically inferior civilizations working in a kludge collaboration across untold billions of years could create something capable of technology so advanced it's literally like magic, the idea that we suddenly shifted the goal posts of the main theme of the series to a problem that never really existed ... I could go on.

Yeah, I have a lot of problems with Synthesis.

Control and Destroy are reasonable by comparison and I don't really like either of them.

[Humakt83]

Synthesis fits Reaper agenda perfectly.

[Sarc69]

frylock23 wrote...

It's a poorly done religious creation myth that posits Shepard literally as God. In that sense, it's the ultimate secular humanist fantasy where man (Shepard) replaces God and perfects his Creation complete with Joker and EDI as Adam and Eve.

Now that's well said.  Seconded.

[Darksaberexile]

Why synthesis doesn't work, imo:
1. The Reapers still exist, and can decide to go back to reaping at any time.

2. What's to stop the people altered by synthesis from making synthetics? Jumping into a magic space beam doesn't prevent building synthetics, which is the reason the Catalyst gives us for starting the cycle in the first place.

Modifié par Darksaberexile, 25 mai 2012 - 10:35 .

[WizenSlinky0]

There are a lot of reasons why I detest the synthesis option. I don't detest it being there, or others choosing it, but I consider it the largest of the evils Shepard could commit (and believe me, every option is a pretty bad choice).

For one you are forcing this decision on the entire galaxy. It doesn't matter that there is no time for people to consent. You are taking it upon yourself to fundamentally change what it means to be alive. How people think. How people feel. All of these things risk being changed. People you knew could be entirely different after this change. It's not clear. Basically, it's a huge, massive upheaval. Not to mention how much of our medical and architectural developments would become worthless. If our bodies, and minds, are changed so dramatically it's safe to assume current methods of medical treatment would no longer work as intended.

Additionally, it is not the final step in evolution. There can be no final step because the galaxy is always changing. And when there is change in the environment we have to be able to evolve to meet it. If synthesis actually halts evolution we'd just be killing ourselves off in the long term.

There is also nothing to suggest that the problem of the technological singularity is over except the word of a misinformed and misguided AI. Either A.) We're changed so much that we now need the same things as robots, which goes back to point 1, that we just fundamentally changed every human against their will. Or B.) Our new hybrid bodies just make new AI's that don't care that we're hybrids and, if the singularity proves true, eventually wipe us out anyway because we're *still* different.

Synthesis sounds good on paper and when you don't consider consequences, but it is an existential and technological disaster. It's an ideal with a slim chance of solving anything.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 25 mai 2012 - 10:46 .

[Apocaleepse360]

Orange Tee wrote...

Everyone is now a robot.

There's your answer.

I don't think people fully understand synthesis. In fact, I don't think they even slightly understand it.

Synthesizing does not make organics become robots. It's not removing anything. It's simply adding on to what they've got. The same thing goes for synthetics. So let's sum this up into basics, shall we? (Please bare with me here, as the theory behind synthesis, or my theory on what Bioware intended for synthesis should I say, is quite difficult to explain.)

With organics, their minds will likely become augmented. In fact, their minds is the most likely place where most of the changes will take place. Thinking will be faster, memories will be improved as will reflexes... That's just naming a few.

As for synthetics, most of the organic traits they'll get will be through feelings. They'll be able to feel emotions that they were otherwise incapable of feeling. Including love, so that basically means that Joker and EDI would be able to have a proper relationship, hence the ending scene with the two if you picked synthesis.

Now, I'm not saying that synthesis would be the ultimate peacemaker like Star Child claims it to be, because for as long as there are sentient beings, there will always be war. Ultimately this will likely stop wars between organics and synthetics, but what's stopping the synthetics from joining wars that organics have with each other?

Also, no this should not stop reproduction. Each being is made in their own little way. The asari use the genetic material they gather from "melding", humans, krogan, quarians, turians - well, we should all know here unless we haven't been told about the birds and the bees. Finally you have the salarians, who lay eggs. I'd imagine geth would still be created in their usual way, especially if you consider the fact that they are software, not hardware. Yes, they are part organic after synthesis, but that doesn't mean that they lose their synthetic traits, as I've said before.

Modifié par Apocaleepse360, 25 mai 2012 - 11:00 .

[o Ventus]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Everyone is now a robot.

There's your answer.

I don't think people fully understand synthesis. In fact, I don't think they even slightly understand it.

Because you seem to understand it perfectly.

[NS Wizdum]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

Other people may not see it that way. Just ask the Native Americans about how their lives were "improoved".

Edit: also, theres no reason why these new hybrid organics wouldn't just create more pure synthetics.

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 25 mai 2012 - 10:58 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

so they are cyborgs

[kookie28]

o Ventus wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Everyone is now a robot.

There's your answer.

I don't think people fully understand synthesis. In fact, I don't think they even slightly understand it.

Because you seem to understand it perfectly.

Everyone understands it perfectly D:

[RADIUMEYEZ]

NS Wizdum wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

Other people may not see it that way. Just ask the Native Americans about how their lives were "improoved".

Edit: also, theres no reason why these new hybrid organics wouldn't just create more pure synthetics.

[WizenSlinky0]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Everyone is now a robot.

There's your answer.

I don't think people fully understand synthesis. In fact, I don't think they even slightly understand it.

Synthesizing does not make organics become robots. It's not removing anything. It's simply adding on to what they've got. The same thing goes for synthetics. So let's sum this up into basics, shall we?
With organics, their minds will likely become augmented. In fact, their minds is the most likely place where most of the changes will take place. Thinking will be faster, memories will be improved as will reflexes... That's just naming a few.

As for synthetics, most of the organic traits they'll get will be through feelings. They'll be able to feel emotions that they were otherwise incapable of feeling. Including love, so that basically means that Joker and EDI would be able to have a proper relationship, hence the ending scene with the two if you picked synthesis.

Synthesis doesn't actually guarentee it's a 50/50 split. It's very possible that humanity HAS become robots, but with human characteristics, such as emotions and such. It's not a probable outcome but a potential one. It's simply taking two things to create something new. How human, or how synthetic, the new creation is...well that's never elaborated on. Perhaps it's as simple as mind augmentation, or perhaps not. See the thing is the mind is the worst thing you could change about a human to make me want to choose it. The mind is a complex thing and there's a very good chance playing around with that could change who people are. The people you knew could all, in some manner, be "dead" at least in terms of their previous personality.

There's a lot about Synthesis that could "potentially" be good for humanity and synthetics on the whole. There's also a whoooooole lot about the idea that could go very, very wrong.

[Apocaleepse360]

o Ventus wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Everyone is now a robot.

There's your answer.

I don't think people fully understand synthesis. In fact, I don't think they even slightly understand it.

Because you seem to understand it perfectly.

Well I'm pretty sure that it doesn't involve transforming people into robots. I might have gotten a few things wrong in my theories, but it does not turn people into "husks" like some idiots claim. They also seem to forget that this changes synthetics as well as organic beings.

[HellbirdIV]

I despise Synthesis because it makes less sense the more you think about it or try to explain it, raising more, even stupider questions the further into it you delve. It's quite literally anti-logic.

In simpler words, Synthesis is f*cking retarded.

[Apocaleepse360]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Everyone is now a robot.

There's your answer.

I don't think people fully understand synthesis. In fact, I don't think they even slightly understand it.

Synthesizing does not make organics become robots. It's not removing anything. It's simply adding on to what they've got. The same thing goes for synthetics. So let's sum this up into basics, shall we?
With organics, their minds will likely become augmented. In fact, their minds is the most likely place where most of the changes will take place. Thinking will be faster, memories will be improved as will reflexes... That's just naming a few.

As for synthetics, most of the organic traits they'll get will be through feelings. They'll be able to feel emotions that they were otherwise incapable of feeling. Including love, so that basically means that Joker and EDI would be able to have a proper relationship, hence the ending scene with the two if you picked synthesis.

Synthesis doesn't actually guarentee it's a 50/50 split. It's very possible that humanity HAS become robots, but with human characteristics, such as emotions and such. It's not a probable outcome but a potential one. It's simply taking two things to create something new. How human, or how synthetic, the new creation is...well that's never elaborated on. Perhaps it's as simple as mind augmentation, or perhaps not. See the thing is the mind is the worst thing you could change about a human to make me want to choose it. The mind is a complex thing and there's a very good chance playing around with that could change who people are. The people you knew could all, in some manner, be "dead" at least in terms of their previous personality.

There's a lot about Synthesis that could "potentially" be good for humanity and synthetics on the whole. There's also a whoooooole lot about the idea that could go very, very wrong.

That can be said about ALL endings though tbf. Because Bioware thought that closure and epilogues were unnecessary. ¬¬

[kookie28]

Hey you remember that time we saw all DNA in the galaxy get raped?

lol me neither.

[o Ventus]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Everyone is now a robot.

There's your answer.

I don't think people fully understand synthesis. In fact, I don't think they even slightly understand it.

Because you seem to understand it perfectly.

Well I'm pretty sure that it doesn't involve transforming people into robots. I might have gotten a few things wrong in my theories, but it does not turn people into "husks" like some idiots claim. They also seem to forget that this changes synthetics as well as organic beings.

I'll ignore the bolded (It's less scientifically possible than the instantaneous biological shift of every single being in the galaxy into a single, penultimate form) and just say no.

[o Ventus]

kookie28 wrote...

Hey you remember that time we saw all DNA in the galaxy get raped?

lol me neither.

So you're saying that the DNA of every single living creature in the galaxy wasn't instantaneously shifted into a singular form?

Huh.

[WizenSlinky0]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

That can be said about ALL endings though tbf. Because Bioware thought that closure and epilogues were unnecessary. ¬¬

Well, of course. Though I never said the other endings were good. I consider them all pretty evil with synthesis on the bottom. We can't provide entirely for the unknown. However, both control and destroy allow us to plan for the unknown. They offer the least immediate risk.

Synthesis is basically playing russian roulette with everything from biology to the natural order. Destroy leaves the singularity open to happen but also provides the time for organics to either sink or swim on their own terms. If organics are wiped out even after the warnings and the sentient machines trying to kill them every 50,000 years once already...well, we brought it on ourselves.

Control gives Shepard the reigns to prepare for the singularity on HIS own terms. Control assumes Shepard knows better and will save the galaxy from the singularity, destroy assumes either A.) there is no singularity, or B.) The galaxy will save ITSELF from it. Synthesis is just too much risk packed in one little choice. Too many unknowns. Too much could go wrong. That is why I don't like it.

[kookie28]

o Ventus wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Hey you remember that time we saw all DNA in the galaxy get raped?

lol me neither.

So you're saying that the DNA of every single living creature in the galaxy wasn't instantaneously shifted into a singular form?

Huh.

I saw no penetration.  That would be a sweet porno though.

[Apocaleepse360]

o Ventus wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Everyone is now a robot.

There's your answer.

I don't think people fully understand synthesis. In fact, I don't think they even slightly understand it.

Because you seem to understand it perfectly.

Well I'm pretty sure that it doesn't involve transforming people into robots. I might have gotten a few things wrong in my theories, but it does not turn people into "husks" like some idiots claim. They also seem to forget that this changes synthetics as well as organic beings.

I'll ignore the bolded (It's less scientifically possible than the instantaneous biological shift of every single being in the galaxy into a single, penultimate form) and just say no.

Yeah, because a lot of things in ME3's story made sense.

[o Ventus]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Everyone is now a robot.

There's your answer.

I don't think people fully understand synthesis. In fact, I don't think they even slightly understand it.

Because you seem to understand it perfectly.

Well I'm pretty sure that it doesn't involve transforming people into robots. I might have gotten a few things wrong in my theories, but it does not turn people into "husks" like some idiots claim. They also seem to forget that this changes synthetics as well as organic beings.

I'll ignore the bolded (It's less scientifically possible than the instantaneous biological shift of every single being in the galaxy into a single, penultimate form) and just say no.

Yeah, because a lot of things in ME3's story made sense.

Just because I didn't mention them here doesn't mean I agree with them. I'm in no way saying ME3 (Or ME in general) is the end-all-be-all of storytelling, only that it's really good up until the final 15 or so minutes.

[o Ventus]

kookie28 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Hey you remember that time we saw all DNA in the galaxy get raped?

lol me neither.

So you're saying that the DNA of every single living creature in the galaxy wasn't instantaneously shifted into a singular form?

Huh.

I saw no penetration.  That would be a sweet porno though.

I hope, for your sake, that you're aware that there is more than 1 definition for "rape". Knowing this, Synthesis does a pretty good job at "raping" everyone's DNA.

[kookie28]

o Ventus wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Hey you remember that time we saw all DNA in the galaxy get raped?

lol me neither.

So you're saying that the DNA of every single living creature in the galaxy wasn't instantaneously shifted into a singular form?

Huh.

I saw no penetration.  That would be a sweet porno though.

I hope, for your sake, that you're aware that there is more than 1 definition for "rape". Knowing this, Synthesis does a pretty good job at "raping" everyone's DNA.

No I wasn't aware.  Please tell me more about your mastery of the English language and your previously demonstrated philosophical prowess.