550 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

Optimystic_X wrote...

legion999 wrote...

1. Doesn't apply to ME.
2. You're changing life in billions of star systems. Do I really need to explain how that is impossible?
3. Did you play Tuchanka? Listen to Mordin and Eve? About how the Krogan weren't ready for advanced technology. Now that's happened to thousands of primitive races.
4. You're conforming to the ideals of the worst war criminal the galaxy, maybe even the universe, has ever seen.
5. You're splicing synthetics into organics. How would that not cause severe to catastrophic damage to ecosystems? And if synthesis increases intelligence and life-spans, overpopulation.

1. Bullcrap, of course it does. Biotics, the Monolith, the Cipher etc. Space magic everywhere long before the Crucible 
2. As soon as you explain how the Crucible works, sure.
3. Without knowing how synthesis affects their minds/intellect, you can't make that comparison.
4. Association fallacy.
5. You're assuming everyone would breed at the same rate, need to eat the same amount (or eat at all..) You're making a lot of assumptions to water your doom-tree here.

#3  
If does affect their minds / intellect - then its altering who they are and over-riding their individuality and what makes them unique and special - and doing so against their will.

If it doesn't, then how will it achieve anything? 

[JamieCardillo]

Zix13 wrote...

JamieCardillo wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

JamieCardillo wrote...

matthewmi wrote...

Oh look this thread again....but as others have said synthesis is very unethical. I feel really bad for primitive societies who now have glowing eyes and synthetic parts or religious groups that have had their bodies altered in ways that are against their religion etc.....

You make a good point.

Oh wait, now I see you're on that cyborg mindset. Sorry, I thought you understood the one basic concept of synthesis that was made obvious. Unless I didn't have a high enough EMS to see the part where the Starchild lined up each inhabitant of the galaxy and gave them each their own custom prosthetic body part.

I guess if we're doing this space magic thing, we're going all out with it. 

Cyborg is used because you're creating a part-man part-machine. What else would you call it?

The fact that a cyborg is a person with prosthetics and implants would lead me to believe it is not the correct word, since only the DNA of the organics had been changed, not their physical structure. As I said to someone else, everyone looks exactly the same coming out of the Normandy crash, save for glowing eyes. But I guess if you believe their original eyes got plucked out and replaced with robot eyes, well, that's your business.

a) I know very little about biology, but apparently still more than you. DNA doesn't work that way.
You don't actually know what synthesis has done. .
c) You haven't suggested a better word.
d) Their physical structure has been changed, everything now has green-glowing PCB pattern tattoes. 

I don't see how you can attack my lack of certain details with using comments as vague as those. This was just silly.

[Icinix]

Zix13 wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

It disturbs me greatly that some people think like this. 

It terrifies that me that people think like this - it terrifies me even more that they can't see why people are terrified of this.

[poundoffleshaa]

Optimystic_X wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

That's also fanart.

Yeah, Based on fact.

"Along with their suits, quarians also have extensive cybernetic augmentations integrated into their bodies."

For someone with a Quarian as their avatar to not even have basic knowledge like that is pretty jarring.

So do human and pretty much everyone else in ME universe tec is useful, if a person has accesss to either a tec or biotic powers they must have the right implants. 

[PsyrenY]

Icinix wrote...

If does affect their minds / intellect - then its altering who they are and over-riding their individuality and what makes them unique and special - and doing so against their will.

There are many, many vectors of individuality and diversity. Removing one (organic vs. synthetic) does nothing to all the others. Did Joker and EDI become twins in the Synthesis ending?

[legion999]

Optimystic_X wrote...

legion999 wrote...

1. Doesn't apply to ME.
2. You're changing life in billions of star systems. Do I really need to explain how that is impossible?
3. Did you play Tuchanka? Listen to Mordin and Eve? About how the Krogan weren't ready for advanced technology. Now that's happened to thousands of primitive races.
4. You're conforming to the ideals of the worst war criminal the galaxy, maybe even the universe, has ever seen.
5. You're splicing synthetics into organics. How would that not cause severe to catastrophic damage to ecosystems? And if synthesis increases intelligence and life-spans, overpopulation.

1. Bullcrap, of course it does. Biotics, the Monolith, the Cipher etc. Space magic everywhere long before the Crucible 
2. As soon as you explain how the Crucible works, sure.
3. Without knowing how synthesis affects their minds/intellect, you can't make that comparison.
4. Association fallacy.
5. You're assuming everyone would breed at the same rate, need to eat the same amount (or eat at all..) You're making a lot of assumptions to water your doom-tree here.

1. Are all explained in game. Implausible in real life? Yes? In game? No.
2. If the people building the Crucible can't understand it how can I?
3. Then what does Synthesis do exactly? I'm just repeating what other 'pro-synthesis' people have said.
4. You're helping it.
5. So what then? Will organisms just sit there? If we don't need to eat or sleep are seriously saying that's fine? I don't even, please stop smoking whatever you're smoking.

[Mev186]

It's fundamentally changing life on a galactic scale without anyone's consent, or without knowing what the ramifications of such a decision will be. If all organics are partially synthetic, does that mean that all synthetics are now partially organic ? ect...

[o Ventus]

Optimystic_X wrote...

1. Bullcrap, of course it does. Biotics, the Monolith, the Cipher etc. Space magic everywhere long before the Crucible

This is, what, the 7th time I've had to explain this?

There is a difference between suspension of disbelief and flat-out space magic. The former, being biotics, mass effect travel, and the like. Using real-world physics and basic scientific understanding, yes, they are BS. But within the context and restraints of the in-game universe, they are perfectly plausible. The games put forth a respectable effort to making those fantastical elements sound plausible, even though we all know they aren't. It's like saying the characters slinging spells in Harry Potter is "science fiction". It's impossible, but plausible in their world.

Synthesis, on every level, is just straight space magic. It's scientifically impossible (Don't bring Clarke into this. He has no idea what he's talking about. He's a good writer, but that's about the extent of it), it's thematically conflicting with numerous themes in the ME-verse, it does NOTHING to solve the Reaper threat, and it's a blatant cop-out "best" ending. Whereas biotics, kinetic barriers, etc are given explanations as to how they work, Synthesis just sort of jumps in, does its work, and leaves before I can ask any questions, like a magician during the middle ages. It's impossible, implausible, and worst of all, unintelligent.

[Icinix]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Icinix wrote...

If does affect their minds / intellect - then its altering who they are and over-riding their individuality and what makes them unique and special - and doing so against their will.

There are many, many vectors of individuality and diversity. Removing one (organic vs. synthetic) does nothing to all the others. Did Joker and EDI become twins in the Synthesis ending?

But thats just it - it either removed it - or it didn't.

If it didn't, you think EDI and Joker are suddenly going to go and hug the Reapers? Or do you think the organic races armada is going to want some kind of revenge on the Reapers? Do you think the Reapers will just lay down and die?

All those children in the galaxy who watched their parents taken by the Reapers, you think they'll grow up loving being one with the Reapers?

It either overides everything that makes organics unqiue - or it achieves nothing.

[dreamgazer]

Optimystic_X wrote...

For someone with a Quarian as their avatar to not even have basic knowledge like that is pretty jarring.

There's a mighty big difference in between self-imposed, controlled modifications, such as those in the Quarians, and a forced splicing of the two of that magnitude or nature.  You're not implementing X, Y, and Z improvements with an end result in mind; you're fusing everything together, and you have no idea if it's violently or peacefully. All you can do is hope that the being inextricably linked to the creation of said Banshees is telling the truth.

At the very least, doing it on a galaxy-wide scale is wildly unreliable. 

[JamieCardillo]

I wish there was a way for people to set rules for threads.

If this was possible, the only rule of this thread would be "If you ever chose to punch al-Jilani in the face, you are not allowed to preach about ethics."

[Zix13]

JamieCardillo wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

JamieCardillo wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

JamieCardillo wrote...

matthewmi wrote...

Oh look this thread again....but as others have said synthesis is very unethical. I feel really bad for primitive societies who now have glowing eyes and synthetic parts or religious groups that have had their bodies altered in ways that are against their religion etc.....

You make a good point.

Oh wait, now I see you're on that cyborg mindset. Sorry, I thought you understood the one basic concept of synthesis that was made obvious. Unless I didn't have a high enough EMS to see the part where the Starchild lined up each inhabitant of the galaxy and gave them each their own custom prosthetic body part.

I guess if we're doing this space magic thing, we're going all out with it. 

Cyborg is used because you're creating a part-man part-machine. What else would you call it?

The fact that a cyborg is a person with prosthetics and implants would lead me to believe it is not the correct word, since only the DNA of the organics had been changed, not their physical structure. As I said to someone else, everyone looks exactly the same coming out of the Normandy crash, save for glowing eyes. But I guess if you believe their original eyes got plucked out and replaced with robot eyes, well, that's your business.

a) I know very little about biology, but apparently still more than you. DNA doesn't work that way.
You don't actually know what synthesis has done. .
c) You haven't suggested a better word.
d) Their physical structure has been changed, everything now has green-glowing PCB pattern tattoes. 

I don't see how you can attack my lack of certain details with using comments as vague as those. This was just silly.

Because all of those statements are self explanatory. But I will explain them anyways.
 a) Dna is entirely organic. Synthesis can not make DNA part-machine. If it did, it would no longer be DNA.
 b)There is little-to-no explanation of what synthesis has actually done in game.
 c)My first response was refering to your complaint about semantics, which you completely ignored.
 d)My last comment was mostly taking a jab at the graphics designers, though also pointing out that there have been physical changes, despite your claims that there hasn't. 

[Zix13]

Icinix wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

It disturbs me greatly that some people think like this. 

It terrifies that me that people think like this - it terrifies me even more that they can't see why people are terrified of this.

I believe this means you're a rational human being. 

[Rip504]

"Evolution is wrong,we should all be cavemen.!."

[legion999]

Rip504 wrote...

"Evolution is wrong,we should all be cavemen.!."

Not sure if serious...

[OblivionDawn]

Zix13 wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

It disturbs me greatly that some people think like this. 

It disturbs me greatly that some people unconditionally fear what they don't understand, even if it doesn't hurt anyone.

But that's human nature.

[Icinix]

Zix13 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

It disturbs me greatly that some people think like this. 

It terrifies that me that people think like this - it terrifies me even more that they can't see why people are terrified of this.

I believe this means you're a rational human being. 

Heres to rational organics! Who will never bow to synthetic thinking mentality.

[Zix13]

legion999 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

"Evolution is wrong,we should all be cavemen.!."

Not sure if serious...

Not even sure what he/she is trying to say. 

[Ji99saw]

o Ventus wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

1. Bullcrap, of course it does. Biotics, the Monolith, the Cipher etc. Space magic everywhere long before the Crucible

This is, what, the 7th time I've had to explain this?

There is a difference between suspension of disbelief and flat-out space magic. The former, being biotics, mass effect travel, and the like. Using real-world physics and basic scientific understanding, yes, they are BS. But within the context and restraints of the in-game universe, they are perfectly plausible. The games put forth a respectable effort to making those fantastical elements sound plausible, even though we all know they aren't. It's like saying the characters slinging spells in Harry Potter is "science fiction". It's impossible, but plausible in their world.

Synthesis, on every level, is just straight space magic. It's scientifically impossible (Don't bring Clarke into this. He has no idea what he's talking about. He's a good writer, but that's about the extent of it), it's thematically conflicting with numerous themes in the ME-verse, it does NOTHING to solve the Reaper threat, and it's a blatant cop-out "best" ending. Whereas biotics, kinetic barriers, etc are given explanations as to how they work, Synthesis just sort of jumps in, does its work, and leaves before I can ask any questions, like a magician during the middle ages. It's impossible, implausible, and worst of all, unintelligent.

That's all Subjective, you can't make any assumptions on how much people are willing to beleive. I beleive it's all space magic

[o Ventus]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

It disturbs me greatly that some people think like this. 

It disturbs me greatly that some people unconditionally fear what they don't understand, even if it doesn't hurt anyone.

But that's human nature.

It's funny because nobody is actually "fearing" anything. We just think it's ****ing stupid and self contradictory.

[PsyrenY]

legion999 wrote...

1. Are all explained in game. Implausible in real life? Yes? In game? No.
2. If the people building the Crucible can't understand it how can I?
3. Then what does Synthesis do exactly? I'm just repeating what other 'pro-synthesis' people have said.
4. You're helping it.
5. So what then? Will organisms just sit there? If we don't need to eat or sleep are seriously saying that's fine? I don't even, please stop smoking whatever you're smoking.

1. False. The Monolith (the device that gave TIM his eyes) was never in-game, nor was it explained. The Cipher was "explained" by Shiala - Oh wait, no it wasn't, instead we got bull**** like "It would be like describing color to a creature without eyes." Yeah, real scientific, Shiala. And biotics? How does "Dominate" work, and why can Shepard learn it? Or Reave, or Dark Channel, or Stasis?
2. If you admit you don't understand it, what makes you think you know what it can and can't do?
3. Which pro-synthesis person has said "primitves won't be ready for the tech?" It's pretty obvious that it will upgrade organic minds - indeed, that must be it's primary effect if it is to end the cycle, otherwise we will still need AI and AI will still be able to surpass us.
4. I'm helping the galaxy. That the Catalyst wants the same thing is irrelevant to the deed itself. TIM wanted to save human colonies - by doing so you were helping him. Was that bad too? That is textbook association fallacy.
5. I believe we'll have absolute control over our propagation, just like the Geth do. No over- or under-population. The same with our energy needs - we will be able to regulate ourselves just like synthetics do.

[Icinix]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

It disturbs me greatly that some people think like this. 

It disturbs me greatly that some people unconditionally fear what they don't understand, even if it doesn't hurt anyone.

But that's human nature.

It disturbs me greatly that some people would unconditionally impose their will on others, despite the fact it does hurt them.

But thats dictator nature.

[OblivionDawn]

Icinix wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Some people use words like "galactic rape" and other hyperbolic phrases to say that Synthesis is basically changing organic life without giving them a choice.

But if the change is clearly for the better of the entire galaxy (based on the ending), then I don't see what the problem is.

It disturbs me greatly that some people think like this. 

It disturbs me greatly that some people unconditionally fear what they don't understand, even if it doesn't hurt anyone.

But that's human nature.

It disturbs me greatly that some people would unconditionally impose their will on others, despite the fact it does hurt them.

But thats dictator nature.

Right, please tell me who Synthesis hurts.

[dreamgazer]

OblivionDawn wrote...

It disturbs me greatly that some people unconditionally fear what they don't understand, even if it doesn't hurt anyone.

But that's human nature.

When you can't hit the reload button and try again? Yeah, I'd fear making a choice about something I didn't understand, especially if it altered the genetic makeup of every single organism I've ever interacted with.