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Saren did not support synthesis.


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#1
His Name was HYR!!

His Name was HYR!!
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We all know the quote that people have used to tack Saren onto synthesis. It's what he says after that which is more important.

 

Shepard: the Reapers don't use organics, they discard them. As soon as the conquest is over, you'll be cast aside.
Saren: You saw the visions, you saw what happened to the Protheans. Surrender or death, there are no other options.

^^^ This is all Saren's motives ever were. Surrender or death. More than surrender, to join the Reapers.

The talk of "machine and organic intertwined" is all a giant metaphor for that alliance.


Also, I saved a recent post I made about this topic that might have said it better than this thread did:
http://social.biowar...60/122#13041991 

HYR 2.0 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Yes, but that’s only why he couldn’t be the disintegratee. Would his description of Synthesis — straight from Sovereign — have been that different just because of that?


Saren wasn't describing synthesis, he was describing an alliance between all organics and synthetics. "Therelationship is symbiotic. Machine and flesh intertwined."

You know, Saren is noted several times to be charismatic and compelling. Being an eloquent speaker is usually a trait associated with those qualities. Someone who's eloquent might use colorful and symbolic speech rather than go into literalisms and otherwise straightforward/uncompelling speech all the damn time.

This is just in-game stuff. We're not even going into the fact that Bioware's writing has the subtle grace of an anvil, and if that synthesis were any type of theme they wanted to promote next to Saren, it would not be limited to one single line. Compare that to the Illusive Man who never shuts up about controlling the Reapers in ME3.

 


Saren was only working with them to save his own arse.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 04 septembre 2012 - 04:43 .


#2
zovoes

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do not feed

#3
OblivionDawn

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People are actually using Saren as an argument against Synthesis?

Lol. What Saren was trying to accomplish and what actually happens in Synthesis are two different things.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 25 mai 2012 - 10:02 .


#4
Xellith

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"Sovreign has.. upgraded me. The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. I am a vision of the future shepard".

#5
Deltateam Elcor

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Considering what he said before all this, this isnt proof, nor do i care.

#6
kathic

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What is this I don't even...

#7
o Ventus

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Like, just about all the other criticsms people make against it.


Yup. Scientific impossibility and shattering of the suspension of disbelief is totally not a valid complaint against synthesis at all.

Thank you, angel from the heavens, I never would have been able to form my own opinions without your help!

#8
His Name was HYR!!

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Xellith wrote...

"Sovreign has.. upgraded me. The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. I am a vision of the future shepard".


The Illusive Man also implanted himself, did he support synthesis? No.

Saren's real motives for joining the Reapers comes out in the dialogue after that line.

#9
Vox Draco

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At least it made me smile shortly...what will they come up with next? I can't wait! Posted Image

#10
legion999

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Xellith wrote...

"Sovreign has.. upgraded me. The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. I am a vision of the future shepard".


Saren doesn't seem to know what symbiotic means.

#11
o Ventus

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

"Sovreign has.. upgraded me. The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. I am a vision of the future shepard".


The Illusive Man also implanted himself, did he support synthesis? No.

Saren's real motives for joining the Reapers comes out in the dialogue after that line.


The Illusive Man was also blasted with Reaper tech against his own will (Unlike Saren), and was on his way to becoming indoctrinated well before Saren even knew what Sovereign was.

Kind of invalid.

Modifié par o Ventus, 25 mai 2012 - 10:07 .


#12
His Name was HYR!!

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o Ventus wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Like, just about all the other criticsms people make against it.


Yup. Scientific impossibility and shattering of the suspension of disbelief is totally not a valid complaint against synthesis at all.

Thank you, angel from the heavens, I never would have been able to form my own opinions without your help!


I said "just about all" not "absolutely all." :whistle:

That's one of the very few things I won't disagree with. But let's face it, fans put up with plenty of space magic: Shepard reconstruction, medigel, FTL...

#13
poundoffleshaa

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"I will create a alliance between us and the reapers between organics and machines and in doing so I will save more lives than have ever existed" Saren Virmire. Seems to me to be a pitch for synthesis for me.

#14
Omanisat

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Saren supported subservience, not synthesis.

#15
legion999

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"Saren was only working with them to save his own arse. Sorry synthesis-haters, try as you might to tack on Saren to the green path, but it's just wrong. Dead wrong. Like, just about all the other criticsms people make against it."

Saren was indoctrinated. Saren wanted synthesis to save organics. That's the synthesis you choose.

And are you serious with that last sentence? Because if you are,

HahhahahhahhahahhahhahhahhahahahahHahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahhahahahhahe ho ha he ho ha.

And I thought my jokes were bad.

#16
Tomwew

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yeah seren just wanted to force the whole galaxy into being "perfect" synthetic-organic hybrids, that's completely different to synthesis..............eh lol?

#17
His Name was HYR!!

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o Ventus wrote...

The Illusive Man was also blasted with Reaper tech against his own will (Unlike Saren), and was on his way to becoming indoctrinated well before Saren even knew what Sovereign was.

Kind of invalid.


W - T - F - !?!?!?!

AND THESE FOO'S WANNA CRITICIZE SPECULATIONS???? AWWW HELLL NAWWWW!!!!

#18
o Ventus

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Like, just about all the other criticsms people make against it.


Yup. Scientific impossibility and shattering of the suspension of disbelief is totally not a valid complaint against synthesis at all.

Thank you, angel from the heavens, I never would have been able to form my own opinions without your help!


I said "just about all" not "absolutely all." :whistle:

That's one of the very few things I won't disagree with. But let's face it, fans put up with plenty of space magic: Shepard reconstruction, medigel, FTL...


I'll admit, I laughed when I read your "anti-Synthesis criticisms are invalid" (para) bit.

#19
o Ventus

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

The Illusive Man was also blasted with Reaper tech against his own will (Unlike Saren), and was on his way to becoming indoctrinated well before Saren even knew what Sovereign was.

Kind of invalid.


W - T - F - !?!?!?!

AND THESE FOO'S WANNA CRITICIZE SPECULATIONS???? AWWW HELLL NAWWWW!!!!


I'm serious. 

Mass Effect: Evolution (I think it was called). Arca Monolith.

#20
His Name was HYR!!

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Omanisat wrote...

Saren supported subservience, not synthesis.


Finally someone understands! I was losing faith in humanity. But no, not completely. :happy:

#21
Tomwew

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[/quote]
o Ventus:
I'm serious. 

Mass Effect: Evolution (I think it was called). Arca Monolith.
[/quote]

he's right illusive man was in the first contact war as jack harper, got blasted with reaper tech on palaven, and got slowly indoctrinated from there

Modifié par Tomwew, 25 mai 2012 - 10:15 .


#22
legion999

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

Omanisat wrote...

Saren supported subservience, not synthesis.


Finally someone understands! I was losing faith in humanity. But no, not completely. :happy:


And with subservience comes synthesis. Or are you that enamored with synthesis?

#23
His Name was HYR!!

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o Ventus wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

The Illusive Man was also blasted with Reaper tech against his own will (Unlike Saren), and was on his way to becoming indoctrinated well before Saren even knew what Sovereign was.

Kind of invalid.


W - T - F - !?!?!?!

AND THESE FOO'S WANNA CRITICIZE SPECULATIONS???? AWWW HELLL NAWWWW!!!!


I'm serious. 

Mass Effect: Evolution (I think it was called). Arca Monolith.



I know of it. He was not indoctrinated by it. Saying it was slowly happening as a result of that is pure speculation. Speculation that I've considered myself to explain ME3, but ultimately don't buy. Even if I did, not a proven fact here.

#24
Omanisat

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Tomwew wrote...

yeah seren just wanted to force the whole galaxy into being "perfect" synthetic-organic hybrids, that's completely different to synthesis..............eh lol?


Saren wanted what Sovereign wanted. He was indoctrinated. Any motivations he may have appeared to have was a lie that the small part of his mind that was still his own told itself. If he really believed in Sovereign and the Reapers would he kill himself?

#25
o Ventus

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

The Illusive Man was also blasted with Reaper tech against his own will (Unlike Saren), and was on his way to becoming indoctrinated well before Saren even knew what Sovereign was.

Kind of invalid.


W - T - F - !?!?!?!

AND THESE FOO'S WANNA CRITICIZE SPECULATIONS???? AWWW HELLL NAWWWW!!!!


I'm serious. 

Mass Effect: Evolution (I think it was called). Arca Monolith.



I know of it. He was not indoctrinated by it. Saying it was slowly happening as a result of that is pure speculation. Speculation that I've considered myself to explain ME3, but ultimately don't buy. Even if I did, not a proven fact here.


So literally every other character who's come into contact with Reaper tech can get indoctrinated (sans Shepard, we need a playable character), but just because TIM, I'm automatically wrong?