212 réponses à ce sujet

[Sisterofshane]

balance5050 wrote...

Thermodynamics, there is not enough energy present in the galaxy to scan every atom, let alone magically change said atom to a different element.

Synthesis is a mathematical impossibility.

...As far as we know.

Remember, we've already accepted that running electrical currents through an "element" can make us travel faster than the speed of light", and that the Reapers have technology capable of liqeufiying an entire human body, and yet said boday can still maintain mental functions post-humously.

If we were presented with a bit more information as to what Synthesis actually does, then I might believe that it is possible for it to exist.  Mass Effect is not exactly a "hard" science fiction.

[NoUserNameHere]

He wasn't advocating the 'space magic' Synthesis we enact in the green ending.

He was advocating a 'union of flesh and steel' aka: a Collector slave race/synthesis creature based on the Reaper's warped value system. It is in the same vein as the green ending, I'd say.

[NoUserNameHere]

Sisterofshane wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Thermodynamics, there is not enough energy present in the galaxy to scan every atom, let alone magically change said atom to a different element.

Synthesis is a mathematical impossibility.

...As far as we know.

Remember, we've already accepted that running electrical currents through an "element" can make us travel faster than the speed of light", and that the Reapers have technology capable of liqeufiying an entire human body, and yet said boday can still maintain mental functions post-humously.

If we were presented with a bit more information as to what Synthesis actually does, then I might believe that it is possible for it to exist.  Mass Effect is not exactly a "hard" science fiction.

No no no no no.

That's like saying "ghosts exist in this work... therefore an alien COULD show up in the last chapter." 

Liquified Reaper goo has no trace of its old personalities that I am aware of. I buy it because it's a cosmic horror kind of thing to do and we've seen it before in Evangelion.

[jla0644]

Lol @ anyone thinking they know what Synthesis entails. We have virtually no information to work with.

Omg everyones a robot now and saren wanted it and free will blahblahblah

If you don't like it don't choose it, but most of the reasons I hear for why people hate it are baseless speculations

My biggest problem with it is the "final evolution" line. Confusing why they would put that in, and then also write the converstation with Javiik where he describeds evolution as the cosmic imperative, the strongest most important force in the galaxy. And then in the ending, evolution is somehow over.

Modifié par jla0644, 26 mai 2012 - 03:21 .

[Sisterofshane]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

No no no no no.

That's like saying "ghosts exist in this work... therefore an alien COULD show up in the last chapter." 

Liquified Reaper goo has no trace of its old personalities that I am aware of. I buy it because it's a cosmic horror kind of thing to do and we've seen it before in Evangelion.

No, that's like saying "ghosts exist in this work, and through an explicit and believable turn of events, they TURN OUT to be aliens, and have been all along".  It could work.

And I didn't say that personality has continuation within the Reapers - in fact I believe it's exactly the opposite.  But Legion would seem to prove that there are billions of "minds" contained within each Reapers.  Some semblance of mental functioning is therefore present after "goo-ification".

Besides, what I was arguing was not to defend the sudden thematical shift ( I still believe that the whole "synthetic v. organic" theme to have been pretty weak, at best), but rather that Synthesis has a possibility, through proper explanation, to exist within the Mass Effect Universe.  I liken it to the same way in which we suspend disbelief over the theory of Mass Effect, and the creation of Reapers.

[Bill Casey]

Saren: But if we work with the Reapers -- if we make ourselves useful -- think how many lives could be spared.

Saren: The transformation from ally to servant can be subtle. I will not let it happen to me.

Saren: I'm forging an alliance between us and the Reapers. Between Organics and Machines. And in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever existed.

Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard, the evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign, and experience a true rebirth.

Sovereign: We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence.

Harbinger: We will bring your species into harmony with our own.

Harbinger: Evolution cannot be stopped.

Harbinger: We are your genetic destiny.

Harbinger: Embrace Perfection.

EDI: Reapers are sapient constructs. A hybrid of organic and inorganic material.

Catalyst: Synthesis is the final evolution of life, but we need eachother to make it happen.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 mai 2012 - 03:29 .

[wizardryforever]

Sisterofshane wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Saren advocated Shepard try out cybernetic augmentation.  He didn't say that he wanted to cybernetically augment everyone, hell, he doesn't even try to force it on Shepard.  He just attacks.  His dialogue was more along the lines of "Hey, these cybernetics are totally awesome!  You should try it out!"  And not "Haha!  Now all people in the galaxy shall be just like me!"

Saren believed himself to be spared because of Synthesis.  On Virmire, he specifically argues that it would be better for us to "surrender" and be "servants" - and his exact form of servitude was by being cybernetically implanted.  So while he didn't advocate in saving the entire galaxy, he did believe that Synthetic-Organic beings were the only ones in which the Reapers would deem "worthy" of allowing to live.  It has the same basic arguments that the Synthesis ending has in ME3.

Nope.  Saren wasn't implanted until after Virmire.  He said that he would be spared because he had proved himself useful, as had the Geth.  He doesn't mention the cybernetics until the final fight with him.

[Sisterofshane]

wizardryforever wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Saren advocated Shepard try out cybernetic augmentation.  He didn't say that he wanted to cybernetically augment everyone, hell, he doesn't even try to force it on Shepard.  He just attacks.  His dialogue was more along the lines of "Hey, these cybernetics are totally awesome!  You should try it out!"  And not "Haha!  Now all people in the galaxy shall be just like me!"

Saren believed himself to be spared because of Synthesis.  On Virmire, he specifically argues that it would be better for us to "surrender" and be "servants" - and his exact form of servitude was by being cybernetically implanted.  So while he didn't advocate in saving the entire galaxy, he did believe that Synthetic-Organic beings were the only ones in which the Reapers would deem "worthy" of allowing to live.  It has the same basic arguments that the Synthesis ending has in ME3.

Nope.  Saren wasn't implanted until after Virmire.  He said that he would be spared because he had proved himself useful, as had the Geth.  He doesn't mention the cybernetics until the final fight with him.

I would argue that his appearance suggests otherwise.  He has very much been cybernetically augmented from the very beginning of the game.  He doesn't allow SOVEREIGN to implant him until after Virmire, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have any cybernetics before that.

It is, however, when he begins to talk about himself as the "pinnacle" of evolution.  He believed himself to be such a perfect mix of tech/organic that he was beyond the need to evolve any further.  He believes that the only way to have a future with the Reapers is THROUGH this sort of synthetic symbiotic balance.

[Bill Casey]

Saren also believed he wasn't serving the Reapers, but was working with them...

[His Name was HYR!!]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

"Sovreign has.. upgraded me. The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. I am a vision of the future shepard".

The Illusive Man also implanted himself, did he support synthesis? No.

Saren's real motives for joining the Reapers comes out in the dialogue after that line.

I'll just repost this for the many 'haters who aren't keen on reading through things (it should come as no surprise that they are no fans of reading!)

[His Name was HYR!!]

Sauruz wrote...

Rachni Queen turns out to be good, therefore we can trust the Reaper king. Yes, that makes sense.

Sauruz fails reading-comprehension for life.

Fingertrip wrote...

Do not feed the troll people.

Joined: 2012-03-14
Welcome.

Somebody inform this foo' 

Shallyah wrote...

Or in other words:

Harbinger: So you're just too cowardly to fight?
Shepard: Yeah. Sorry about that. *jumps into the Synthesis-ending beam*

Ha! I know you ain't talking.

Destroy path: Reaper power?! Change?!? OMG NO THAT'S TOO SCARY [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie] ... *shoots tubes in fear* 

[Iakus]

Bill Casey wrote...

Saren: But if we work with the Reapers -- if we make ourselves useful -- think how many lives could be spared.

Saren: The transformation from ally to servant can be subtle. I will not let it happen to me.

Saren: I'm forging an alliance between us and the Reapers. Between Organics and Machines. And in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever existed.

Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard, the evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign, and experience a true rebirth.

Sovereign: We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence.

Harbinger: We will bring your species into harmony with our own.

Harbinger: Evolution cannot be stopped.

Harbinger: We are your genetic destiny.

Harbinger: Embrace Perfection.

EDI: Reapers are sapient constructs. A hybrid of organic and inorganic material.

Catalyst: Synthesis is the final evolution of life, but we need eachother to make it happen.

Beautiful.  Simply beautiful.

A great summary of how on top of being stupid space magic, Synthesis throws Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 right out the window.

[Bill Casey]

Shepard: Your people are being turned into monsters.
Illusive Man: Hardly, they're being improved.


Illusive Man: Harness their very essence to bring humanity to the apex of evolution.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Does Bill Casey ever do anything aside from spewing symbolic references/gimmicky ME dialogue and call it an argument?

[Gen Petitt]

Xellith wrote...

"Sovreign has.. upgraded me. The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. I am a vision of the future shepard".

This your arument is irrevelent I am a big green Krogan

[Bill Casey]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Does Bill Casey ever do anything aside from spewing symbolic references/gimmicky ME dialogue and call it an argument?

Oh sorry...
I thought we were talking about Mass Effect...
My bad...

[Gen Petitt]

Oh and the people who agree with this guy

[Gen Petitt]

And I meant with the creator of this thread

[His Name was HYR!!]

 

Gen Petitt wrote...

Xellith wrote...

"Sovreign has.. upgraded me. The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. I am a vision of the future shepard".

This your arument is irrevelent I am a big green Krogan

5 posts up, foo... but thanks for continuing to prove me right.

If this dude were synthesized, maybe a spell-check program built into his nogin would make his posts intelligible. 

Bill Casey wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Does Bill Casey ever do anything aside from spewing symbolic references/gimmicky ME dialogue and call it an argument?

Oh sorry...
I thought we were talking about Mass Effect...
My bad...

We were, but you weren't. You only just adopted this tried-and-true tactic:  

Sorry, spewing out random quotes for like-minded sheep to follow is not talking. It's babbling.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 26 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[Bill Casey]

You are the one ignoring everything before the final scene...
Nothing I have done is association fallacy. Everything I have pointed to is within the same artwork...

Things that happen in a story are typically important to that story...
Otherwise, it's just a bunch of random garbage that punishes you for paying attention to it...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 mai 2012 - 05:53 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

Bill Casey wrote...

You are the one ignoring everything before the final scene...

No. I don't just regurgitate the story, I understand it.

And this thread is evidence of that. 

[Bill Casey]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

You are the one ignoring everything before the final scene...

No. I don't just regurgitate the story, I understand it.

And this thread is evidence of that. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Clearly, you don't...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 mai 2012 - 05:55 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

Bill Casey wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

You are the one ignoring everything before the final scene...

No. I don't just regurgitate the story, I understand it.

And this thread is evidence of that. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Clearly, you don't...

Synthesis hater: herp - Saren said something about machines and organics together in ME1!!! - derp.
Me: if you actually listen to the rest of the dialogue, he says he joins the Reapers to save his ass.
(Gen Petitt): *quotes synthesis-hater* hurr yeah ooh look I'm so smart!

[GreyLycanTrope]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

You are the one ignoring everything before the final scene...

No. I don't just regurgitate the story, I understand it.

And this thread is evidence of that. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Clearly, you don't...

Synthesis hater: herp - Saren said something about machines and organics together in ME1!!! - derp.
Me: if you actually listen to the rest of the dialogue, he says he joins the Reapers to save his ass.
(Gen Petitt): *quotes synthesis-hater* hurr yeah ooh look I'm so smart!

So,"Don't use sections of in game dialogue to support your argument that makes you stupid. But I'm using different sections of in game dialogue to support my argument therefore I'm right."?  your logic hurts

Also, yes Saren supported working with the Reapers to save his own ass, but recall that he thought it was the only way anyone would have survived. So he submits to their will, in this case implants, sp they won't kill him. Synthesis = submit to out logic, if you merge synthetics and organics then we won't kill you.

The fine details might be a bit different but the end result is the same, survival through submission, which is what Saren supported.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 26 mai 2012 - 03:33 .

[themaniac003]

[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...

Does Bill Casey ever do anything aside from spewing symbolic references/gimmicky ME dialogue and call it an argument?[/quote]
Oh sorry...
I thought we were talking about Mass Effect...
My bad...[/quote]

We were, but you weren't. You only just adopted this tried-and-true tactic:  

"Sorry, spewing out random quotes for like-minded sheep to follow is not talking. It's babbling."[/quote]




uhh.....what about those quotes were random?  And calling everybody who does not beleive in your opinion "sheep" is f*****g hilarious.  Go drown in your ego ****

Modifié par themaniac003, 26 mai 2012 - 03:42 .