Modifié par T0paze, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:53 .
Riordan's motives
Débuté par
T0paze
, déc. 10 2009 05:49
#1
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 05:49
T0paze
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Does anyone else here think that Riordan was actually doing a great favor to the PC and Alistair by proposing that Loghain should undergo the Joining? I mean, he knew all along that any Grey Warden who kills the Archdemon must die. He did want to do it himself, but he it was entirely possible that he would've failed (just like it happened). So, if anything should go awry, Loghain would be in a much better position to die with the Archdemon. He's already quite old, much older than you and Alistair. He has a lot to atone for and will need to redeem himself, so this could be possibly the best way for him to go, considering what he has done. Alistair and the PC, on the contrary, are young and have a whole life ahead of them. Alistair could be King and the PC could do a lot for the Grey Wardens. So, this would be a win-win situation. Just imagine what would happen in the game if Alistair didn't leave when Loghain joined the party (Riordan had no way of knowing that Alistair would, actually). I think pretty much everyone would say something like "Loghain, it was nice knowing you, now go die like a hero" and everyone would be happy, including Loghain himself.
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#2
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 06:57
David Gaider
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I do so love it when players are willfully ignorant, and justify that by declaring that everyone else in the story is clearly stupid. It's an interesting phenomenon.
#3
Posté 11 décembre 2009 - 01:14
David Gaider
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Well, since the discussion continues, I'll repeat what I said in the last thread that discussed this.
Riordan didn't know that you were unaware of the Final Solution. He doesn't know what Alistair was or wasn't told, and how would he have known that Alistair was deferring to a new recruit? Even if he did know, or suspect, he could not know that the showdown with the Archdemon would have come before the Grey Wardens from Orlais would arrive. Just because you know that in hindsight does not make him stupid for not realizing that it would come down to a do-or-die mission of a handful of Grey Wardens to save Denerim. At the Landsmeet, adding to the thin Grey Warden ranks was a good idea -- especially when it came to the possibility of a decent recruit like Loghain -- but at the time it was not yet imperative.
As for Alistair, if he does anything objectionable I'd say it would be the fact that he's unwilling to return to the Grey Warden ranks once the Denerim situation becomes apparent (should you have recruited Loghain, I mean). Dislike him for that, if you wish, but if the notion is that he should accept Loghain's recruitment "for the greater good" when it's against everything he believes in then I simply will never agree. He sees being a Grey Warden, and even killing the Archdemon, as an honor -- you disabuse him of that idea at your peril, especially if you are the woman he loves. I think, at that point, he would hope that you'd have his back for once, and not he yours.
If you think that the plot is clumsily executed, that's up to you. I won't argue, as there are a hundred reasons the ending played out why it did and not all of them had anything to do with the story, but if the idea is that events would have turned out differently if the plot had lined up in a different way -- well, yes. Isn't that obvious?
Perhaps you don't like how it went down, and that's cool. Lots of people have different preferences for the way they might have wanted the plot to go. That's nothing new, and I'm always willing to listen to reasoned feedback. Ignoring facts that you dislike or find inconvenient, however, isn't going to make your argument more convincing. Not to me.
Riordan didn't know that you were unaware of the Final Solution. He doesn't know what Alistair was or wasn't told, and how would he have known that Alistair was deferring to a new recruit? Even if he did know, or suspect, he could not know that the showdown with the Archdemon would have come before the Grey Wardens from Orlais would arrive. Just because you know that in hindsight does not make him stupid for not realizing that it would come down to a do-or-die mission of a handful of Grey Wardens to save Denerim. At the Landsmeet, adding to the thin Grey Warden ranks was a good idea -- especially when it came to the possibility of a decent recruit like Loghain -- but at the time it was not yet imperative.
As for Alistair, if he does anything objectionable I'd say it would be the fact that he's unwilling to return to the Grey Warden ranks once the Denerim situation becomes apparent (should you have recruited Loghain, I mean). Dislike him for that, if you wish, but if the notion is that he should accept Loghain's recruitment "for the greater good" when it's against everything he believes in then I simply will never agree. He sees being a Grey Warden, and even killing the Archdemon, as an honor -- you disabuse him of that idea at your peril, especially if you are the woman he loves. I think, at that point, he would hope that you'd have his back for once, and not he yours.
If you think that the plot is clumsily executed, that's up to you. I won't argue, as there are a hundred reasons the ending played out why it did and not all of them had anything to do with the story, but if the idea is that events would have turned out differently if the plot had lined up in a different way -- well, yes. Isn't that obvious?
Perhaps you don't like how it went down, and that's cool. Lots of people have different preferences for the way they might have wanted the plot to go. That's nothing new, and I'm always willing to listen to reasoned feedback. Ignoring facts that you dislike or find inconvenient, however, isn't going to make your argument more convincing. Not to me.
