9960 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

Well, the thing about homelessness on the Citadel is... it certainly still happens. Think of Mouse and the duct rats. They don't have to hide from weather, but they certainly would need to hide from C-Sec or the gangs. I mean, think about Babylon 5. Even that series had "homeless" down in the bowels of the station.... And the Citadel certainly resembles B5 with a bit of Deep Space 9 thrown in.

[noxiuniversitas1]

lillitheris wrote...

Ah, but here is where it gets tricky: is cardboard still in use? Does it actually snow anywhere? Wouldn’t homeless people be prime candidates to try to make a new life in the colonies? Would certain species be more averse to having and/or seeing homeless people?

The Citadel has the food distribution thing going, and one would imagine that given the reasonably simple manufacture of nutrition pastes, that would help with keeping everyone fed at least.

There are all kinds of things to take into account if you try to make homelessness an integral part of a story.

Semantics, imho. Detailed description of environments is a powerful tool, but can be unnecessary if approached from the right angle. And the imagery I described was just an example of how dynamic the situations are, not examples to be used in an ME universe In any case, the codex entry on Earth makes it pretty clear a large proportion of people still live with 20th/21st century technology.

Yes, I know alien worlds aren't Earth, but similar principles apply... in moderation

lillitheris wrote...

Here
we are, roaming space with aliens, and we still have homeless people?

*Cough* You could pretty much say the same thing about current first-world countries "flying the skies" and homeless people... Where there is affluence, there will always be poverty and other evil ills.

lillitheris wrote...

The imagery is usually secondary to the human, however. For all the homeless people I have treated, there are common themes of despair, desertion, loneliness and hopelessness. But equally, there is (if you can bring yourself to see it that way) an uplifting side. There is often a great camaderie between them, and they look out for each other. I've had people under my care who have absconded tracked for days by others, brought back at their own (not-insignificant) expense, and kept nourished with their own meagre stocks of food. It really puts things into perspective.

This falls a little under the romanticization you mentioned in a different context earlier, doesn’t it?

Mmm, I was speaking specifically of the romaticization of grief (which is a wholly separate can of worms), but yes, I can see how I could be called out on that one. Romanticization isn't all bad... at the risk of sounding cheesy, it's a source of inspiration and hope. In this particular case, it happens to be true. *shrug*

[lillitheris]

Sialater wrote...

Well, the thing about homelessness on the Citadel is... it certainly still happens. Think of Mouse and the duct rats. They don't have to hide from weather, but they certainly would need to hide from C-Sec or the gangs. I mean, think about Babylon 5. Even that series had "homeless" down in the bowels of the station.... And the Citadel certainly resembles B5 with a bit of Deep Space 9 thrown in.

Would they really have homelessness on the Citadel? I mean, sure, it makes a convenient narrative device to contrast between the Presidium and the Wards and so on, but I have to try to figure out how it would happen. The Citadel isn’t a spontaneously grown city-center; its residents would mainly consist of political bureaucrats and and merchants…there’s all this new technology both for tracking people and providing for them: how does someone slip through the cracks – a child, no less?

[lillitheris]

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

Semantics, imho. Detailed description of environments is a powerful tool, but can be unnecessary if approached from the right angle. And the imagery I described was just an example of how dynamic the situations are, not examples to be used in an ME universe In any case, the codex entry on Earth makes it pretty clear a large proportion of people still live with 20th/21st century technology.

Yes, I know alien worlds aren't Earth, but similar principles apply... in moderation
:
*Cough* You could pretty much say the same thing about current
first-world countries "flying the skies" and homeless people... Where
there is affluence, there will always be poverty and other evil ills.

I disagree with your last assertion but I can generally agree with the sentiment. I think you should still explain it, to yourself at least.

Mind, also,  the Earth is significantly limited by the resources found on Earth. There’s only so much land etc. But when you throw in even just Eden Prime… Then consider the vast infrastructure and other projects that the Systems Alliance needs, and so on, and so on.

I’m not saying that you couldn’t still come to a conclusion that it is this way because it has always been this way and will always be this way, but I think a believable world requires examining the why to some degree.

Character homeless on the Citadel: Why are they homeless? Why on the Citadel? How did they get there? Is there no temporary housing? Can’t they find a new job? Relatives? Embassy? Charities? Sign up in the military?

Modifié par lillitheris, 01 juin 2012 - 04:08 .

[noxiuniversitas1]

lillitheris wrote...

I disagree with your last assertion but I can generally agree with the sentiment. I think you should still explain it, to yourself at least.

...

I’m not saying that you couldn’t still come to a conclusion that it is this way because it has always been this way and will always be this way, but I think a believable world requires examining the why to some degree.

You are certainly entitled to disagree - that is the purpose of a forum, after all. Maybe I am cynical and a bit jaded, but I find it hard to believe anyone who lives in the times we do can really believe a world without poverty and homelessness could truly exist (your optimism commands my full respect, and I'm not being sarcastic). If you want to know why it does, I'm afraid I don't have the answer; I'd be up for the Nobel Peace Prize if I did.

Modifié par noxiuniversitas1, 01 juin 2012 - 04:15 .

[noxiuniversitas1]

error double post - sorry!

Modifié par noxiuniversitas1, 01 juin 2012 - 04:14 .

[Sialater]

lillitheris wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, the thing about homelessness on the Citadel is... it certainly still happens. Think of Mouse and the duct rats. They don't have to hide from weather, but they certainly would need to hide from C-Sec or the gangs. I mean, think about Babylon 5. Even that series had "homeless" down in the bowels of the station.... And the Citadel certainly resembles B5 with a bit of Deep Space 9 thrown in.

Would they really have homelessness on the Citadel? I mean, sure, it makes a convenient narrative device to contrast between the Presidium and the Wards and so on, but I have to try to figure out how it would happen. The Citadel isn’t a spontaneously grown city-center; its residents would mainly consist of political bureaucrats and and merchants…there’s all this new technology both for tracking people and providing for them: how does someone slip through the cracks – a child, no less?

Oh, it's possible, no money for Omni-Tools, etc.  I don't think your averge individual is... lo-jacked, for lack of a better term, but just because you're tracked, doesn't mean you're kept up with.  Especially in the Wards and that quarian you rescue from theft charges mentions a turian shelter.  So, humans aren't the only ones with abject poverty.  We know it happens, Bailey tells us. 

Modifié par Sialater, 01 juin 2012 - 04:16 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Hey guys, I'm going to post an excerpt from a new chapter that I'm working on. Check it out, let me know what you think!

                                                             

                                                               Chapter 5 – Rusted veins

                                                                “Embrace Perfection”

The trees seemed to be moving, yet there was no breeze.
Their large trunks and bodies were slowly shifting and mending towards his
general direction. It feels as if the pulse from his heart is synchronized with
every small shift the trees made. This place felt very cold and lonely as
usual.

                                                “Your efforts are meaningless Shepard.”[/i]

Neil swung his head behind him, and there was the boy that
tormented his soul for the past several months. The boy didn’t laugh, cry, or
run when Shepard spotted him this time. His or its expression looked passive
and emotionless. They exchanged looks for what seemed like an eternity. Then Neil
took a small step forward and asked “What do you want from me?” He took another
small step forward the boy. It stood motionless and its stare continued to
pierce right through Shepard’s soul. “I stopped the threat, why are you still
following me?”

                                                “Your insubordination only delays the inevitable.”

Neil took another step towards the entity. All of a sudden
there was a great tremble in the forest, the entity caught fire. Though this time
instead of turning into ashes, its piercing irises rolled back into its head
only revealing the whites of its eyes. An army of the oily shadows appeared
behind him. For some reason this made him feel scared. Though what an odd
feeling, he always did feel scared but his courage outweighed his cowardice.  It felt like sheer terror consumed his
essence. In a now panicked state, he turned away and fled from the boy.
Periodically the sound of the familiar reaper horns would make the ground
tremble. Whenever he looked behind him he would see the boy and the shadows
following him, setting aflame to everything they touch. After a short while of
running, he noticed a shadow that looked like Tali standing straight ahead of
him. Its presence felt so protecting and glorious, his only natural reaction
was to sprint towards it. When he reached his arm out for his light, it
suddenly went aflame slowly turning into ash. All Shepard could do was watch in
terror as the only safe guard to this forest burned to a cinder. He looked up
to see a giant ball of red light along with another earth trembling noise of
the reaper.

                                                                “You have already lost.”

The red light blasted the surface of the forest, blinding
shepard with the all too familiar white light.



Gah, sorry about the format guys. BSN sort of screwed it up. Hope you can still properly read it.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 01 juin 2012 - 06:03 .

[gearseffect]

@fainmaca yeah I likely should ease up on those reviews.I still no I am far from perfect, and I know I have wayyy more I need to work on if I hope to improve and be a great writer. It's hard for me to do that if I don't get any genuine criticisms.

In all honesty I'd prefer people be as critical and blunt as they can be on my work. Hell I'd even prefer someone saying my writing suck so bad they couldn't stand to read anymore of the cr@p I am putting out, and then explain why that is.

I continually doubt everything I do, and I know I'm not very smart. I also know I suck at writing, so any insightful tips as to how I can better my writing is good.

I'd rather someone be brutally honest then have someone not say anything at all.

[Sialater]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...



Hey guys, I'm going to post an excerpt from a new chapter that I'm working on. Check it out, let me know what you think!

                                                             

                                                               Chapter 5 – Rusted veins

                                                                “Embrace Perfection”

The trees seemed to be moving, yet there was no breeze.
Their large trunks and bodies were slowly shifting and mending towards his
general direction. It feels as if the pulse from his heart is synchronized with
every small shift the trees made. This place felt very cold and lonely as
usual.

                                                “Your efforts are meaningless Shepard.”[/i]

Neil swung his head behind him, and there was the boy that
tormented his soul for the past several months. The boy didn’t laugh, cry, or
run when Shepard spotted him this time. His or its expression looked passive
and emotionless. They exchanged looks for what seemed like an eternity. Then Neil
took a small step forward and asked “What do you want from me?” He took another
small step forward the boy. It stood motionless and its stare continued to
pierce right through Shepard’s soul. “I stopped the threat, why are you still
following me?”

                                                “Your insubordination only delays the inevitable.”

Neil took another step towards the entity. All of a sudden
there was a great tremble in the forest, the entity caught fire. Though this time
instead of turning into ashes, its piercing irises rolled back into its head
only revealing the whites of its eyes. An army of the oily shadows appeared
behind him. For some reason this made him feel scared. Though what an odd
feeling, he always did feel scared but his courage outweighed his cowardice.  It felt like sheer terror consumed his
essence. In a now panicked state, he turned away and fled from the boy.
Periodically the sound of the familiar reaper horns would make the ground
tremble. Whenever he looked behind him he would see the boy and the shadows
following him, setting aflame to everything they touch. After a short while of
running, he noticed a shadow that looked like Tali standing straight ahead of
him. Its presence felt so protecting and glorious, his only natural reaction
was to sprint towards it. When he reached his arm out for his light, it
suddenly went aflame slowly turning into ash. All Shepard could do was watch in
terror as the only safe guard to this forest burned to a cinder. He looked up
to see a giant ball of red light along with another earth trembling noise of
the reaper.

                                                                “You have already lost.”

The red light blasted the surface of the forest, blinding
shepard with the all too familiar white light.



Gah, sorry about the format guys. BSN sort of screwed it up. Hope you can still properly read it.

MrBG:

Very vivid take on the dreams.  But you're doing a lot of telling instead of showing.  It keeps Shepard at a distance.  "For some reason, this made him feel scared."  That's telling.  Showing would be more:  "He couldn't say why, but the sight in front of him made his heart pound, his palms sweat, his bowels watery.  His legs wanted nothing more than to turn around and run like hell in the other direction."

All in all, very vivid, but, like I said, somewhat distant since we don't really know what your Shepard is feeling, just what we would feel in this situation.

[lillitheris]

@MrBlazenGlazen: I think the pace and length of that is just about right, but the text doesn’t quite flow yet. I’m not sure what the proper terminology is, but your transitions aren’t fluid enough, so it’s a little jarring at points. Sialater already mentioned show/tell.

You jump from one tense to another, there’s feels — felt, at least. Also, ‘mend’ is the wrong word in the first paragraph. You shouldn’t jump between Neil and Shepard when there’s no clear reason to. ‘Exchanging looks’ implies a short time (to me, anyway?) In the second-to last para, neither of the Though— starts work, both should be combined with the previous sentence.

There’re a couple places you could alter conjunction/comma, like “It stood motionless and its” might work better as “motionless, its”. In one or two cases, the opposite.

You’re also jumping between subjects; there’s lots of ‘its’, ‘that’, ‘this’ that feel disjunct. For example in the first para, if their [the trees’] trunks do something, then the next subject shouldn’t be an explicit ‘it’ (or the other way around).

I think the best way to go over it would be to read it out loud, you know how dramatic readers do it, and exaggerate each full stop a little. I think that’ll let you hear the parts you’ll want to smooth out, and that process will actually improve the wording because you have to be mindful of the entire sentences.

Modifié par lillitheris, 01 juin 2012 - 06:54 .

[Icyflare]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

 An army of the oily shadows appeared behind him. For some reason this made him feel scared. Though what an odd feeling, he always did feel scared but his courage outweighed his cowardice.  It felt like sheer terror consumed his essence.

I think the sentence would carry more punch if it cut out some parts:

"The oily shadows appeared behind him. Neil always did feel scared but his courage outweighed his cowardice. It felt like sheer terror consumed him now."

Just a minor rewrite, but if you play around with editing, I feel that your story could have a greater emotional impact. Otherwise, the overall work seems good. Decent grammar and a good concept. Terror and the unnatural seem to be things you are highlighting in this passage. Emphasize them more. Tell us what Shepard's feeling, how his body reacts to the oily shadow or of Tali burning up.

I have to confess, I'm a sucker for the descriptive stuff, especially if it's surreal and strange.

Modifié par Icyflare, 01 juin 2012 - 07:04 .

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Sialater wrote...

Well, the thing about homelessness on the Citadel is... it certainly still happens. Think of Mouse and the duct rats. They don't have to hide from weather, but they certainly would need to hide from C-Sec or the gangs. I mean, think about Babylon 5. Even that series had "homeless" down in the bowels of the station.... And the Citadel certainly resembles B5 with a bit of Deep Space 9 thrown in.

Hah!  Funny you should mention that, but a friend of mine said that Babylon 5 was Mass Effect 3 done right.

[Sialater]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, the thing about homelessness on the Citadel is... it certainly still happens. Think of Mouse and the duct rats. They don't have to hide from weather, but they certainly would need to hide from C-Sec or the gangs. I mean, think about Babylon 5. Even that series had "homeless" down in the bowels of the station.... And the Citadel certainly resembles B5 with a bit of Deep Space 9 thrown in.

Hah!  Funny you should mention that, but a friend of mine said that Babylon 5 was Mass Effect 3 done right.

Tell your friend I agree.

Shepard should have said, "We'll decide our own way between Order and Chaos.  Now, get the hell out of our galaxy!"

But.. er.... Um.  Hi.  Off topic this certainly is. 

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Sialater wrote...

Tell your friend I agree.

Shepard should have said, "We'll decide our own way between Order and Chaos.  Now, get the hell out of our galaxy!"

But.. er.... Um.  Hi.  Off topic this certainly is. 

Last off-topic post, I promise;

Yeah!  Tron is sticking it to the man! 

[lillitheris]

Hmm, question: I seem to have written myself a few too many female characters (in a strict n:m parity), although a few of the guys are merely temporarily sidelined for one reason or another. I don’t particularly pay attention to it, and probably wouldn’t have noticed if I hadn’t been going over my character listing.

Should I raise the prominence of some of the male cast, or does it really matter?

[fluffywalrus]

lillitheris wrote...

Hmm, question: I seem to have written myself a few too many female characters (in a strict n:m parity), although a few of the guys are merely temporarily sidelined for one reason or another. I don’t particularly pay attention to it, and probably wouldn’t have noticed if I hadn’t been going over my character listing.

Should I raise the prominence of some of the male cast, or does it really matter?

I don't think it really matters, personally.
That said, I'm just going off personal experience. I've never known any of my friends to say(whether having read a book, or played a videogame) that there weren't enough male characters or female characters, or whatnot.

------------------
And thanks everyone for discussing the homeless plot point I've been struggling with. I agree, focus on the more social effect is more important, but environment does need to be there in some shape. I worked out some details last night, and I'm hoping if I can finish that up, that I'll be able to get another chapter out before Sunday. You all gave me some good ideas, and I appreciate it

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 01 juin 2012 - 09:53 .

[gearseffect]

@lillitheris this is just my stand point on having mainly female characters in a story (or is it a chapter or what?) and having a bigger more prominent role than the male characters. I personally have no problem with that, however I seem to think many dudes are a bit put off by that sort of thing. Something I've never got really, men are not tougher than woman, and all that weird crap.

However I don't know any of your work and so I can't really judge and advise on anything. My advice is if you find yourself sidelinning the men a lot, you may want to try and trend carefully it can make many men shy away from your stories. If that's what your worrying about I'd look into trying and including more men. However if you don't think it fits the flow of the story and are just putting them there to appease others it can come off as being forced and make it more worse then if you'd just left it as it was.

[gearseffect]

Hey I was just off to go read your chapters fluffywalrus. EDIT, I'm in one of my funks, I can't seem to make much sense of words,  I sat down to read your 1st chapter and blank ummmm I just fried up, I couldn't processs it the flow of my brain just wasn't working. Freaking dangit I hate being dyslexic so goddamn much. 

Modifié par gearseffect, 01 juin 2012 - 10:12 .

[Severyx]

gearseffect wrote...

Hey I was just off to go read your chapters fluffywalrus. EDIT, I'm in one of my funks, I can't seem to make much sense of words,  I sat down to read your 1st chapter and blank ummmm I just fried up, I couldn't processs it the flow of my brain just wasn't working. Freaking dangit I hate being dyslexic so goddamn much. 

Relax, man, it happens. I get that trying to write sometimes (which I find even more frustrating). In those situations, I find it's best just to put it down and go do something else. It's worth not burning yourself out over it.

[fluffywalrus]

Severyx wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

Hey I was just off to go read your chapters fluffywalrus. EDIT, I'm in one of my funks, I can't seem to make much sense of words,  I sat down to read your 1st chapter and blank ummmm I just fried up, I couldn't processs it the flow of my brain just wasn't working. Freaking dangit I hate being dyslexic so goddamn much. 

Relax, man, it happens. I get that trying to write sometimes (which I find even more frustrating). In those situations, I find it's best just to put it down and go do something else. It's worth not burning yourself out over it.

I agree. Give yourself a bit of a break. It happens to my cousin all the time when she's doing research for her papers, and she blames it on her dyslexia but to be honest...that happens all the time to me as well and I'm not. I often just take a quick jog around the neighbourhood, listen to some soothing music, and have a conversation with someone I know if they're around.
Usually after an hour or two, I'm good to go. Sometimes the brain just needs to kick back and relax

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Alright, I'll try to do some editing to avoid telling shepard's feelings and show. Though overall, how is it? Should I leave that part in or should I take it out and do something else?

[fluffywalrus]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Alright, I'll try to do some editing to avoid telling shepard's feelings and show. Though overall, how is it? Should I leave that part in or should I take it out and do something else?

I think overall, it's good. It can work.

Just one tip regarding telling/showing. If you ever come across a part in your story where you've written "Somehow, he felt scared" or anything similar to that., it's a signal for you to explore the character's thought process. I know that personally, as a reader, using "somehow" or "for some reason" to describe how someone is feeling leads to me thinking "somehow, I'm still reading this."
Not just because it's so incredibly vague an impersonal, but because it's such a wasted opportunity to explore the character, and to better relate to how the character is feeling at that point

But yeah, I don't think it's unsalvageable at all. Just know that this is a dream sequence, this is absolutely a personal experience. It should explore the character rather than what's happening. You mention that periodically the reaper's "horns" sound off. Personally, I found those noises to be pretty unnerving. At this point in your story, they're a relic of horrific times that have past, but that your character can't escape from in some ways. Those "horns" aren't just horns from Reapers, they're the heralds of his failures, of what he's lost.

Just, explore the character. That's all I can give in regard to advice. He's the only one dreaming those dreams, they should be connected to his personal feelings and thoughts, his regrets, his life goals, his remorse over the past, those subtle thoughts just outside the realm of his consciousness...

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Alright, thank you. I'll do some work on it when it's not 2 in the morning and I'm thinking straight. Did you happen to read some of the other chapters? This is pretty much the first time I'm writing fanfiction, and really all I'm doing is just writing out the scenes that play in my head at the time. Details are still rather hard for me to make out at the moment.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 01 juin 2012 - 11:28 .

[fluffywalrus]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Alright, thank you. I'll do some work on it when it's not 2 in the morning and I'm thinking straight. Did you happen to read some of the other chapters? This is pretty much the first time I'm writing fanfiction, and really all I'm doing is just writing out the scenes that play in my head at the time. Details are still rather hard for me to make out at the moment.

My Fanfiction.net name is thedeadflag. I recall reviewing your stuff, at least a bit of it.
I'll check it out again later if I have time