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[Lilivati]

Theodoro wrote...

Hey, guys!
I've been reading this thread a lot to get useful information to improve as a writer. I have written a few fan fiction stories, but I want to share the latest ones specifically:
Life in the Skies & Lost in a Wonder
They both provide glimpses of Shepard & Liara's post-Reaper war lives on Thessia as bondmates. If anybody is interested, I would really appreciate if you gave them a look and share your thoughts on the stories. Thank you in advance and for keeping this thread such a helpful source for aspiring writers like me.
I'll be away for a few days so my response to any comments will be delayed a bit.

I just read the first.  It's amazing how well you captured the asari atmosphere, and I really admire your ability to invent words and iconic landmarks that look and sound asari.  Also, the exchange between Garrus and Tali at the beginning is spectacular.

[MacNasty]

 One more thing. For my fic, I was wondering what you think would be the better option. Do a prologue-type part showing the main villain or something he/she has done a bit before the story started, like why they're evil and the like. Or should I just jump right on into the story? I'm not quite sure yet which to do.

[hot_heart]

Drussius wrote...
Hopefully you're finding far fewer reiterations of the same information in this chapter, and that in general it reads much more fluidly. I have been trying very hard to assimilate info on my weak points and compensate. I don't think there was a single paragraph in that whole chapter that I didn't spend some time rewording or rearranging in some fashion.

Oh, yeah. It does read rather well (it was never bad before). I'm still finding some of the dialogue a little on-the-nose, but I'm not sure how to improve on it without just going 'move this bit here, snip this bit, reword this bit'. Plus, I'm sure some people do speak that way.

Maybe it's just because I spot things like Julisa's first line being a question (thus prompting an explanation) rather than an actual demand to jump to FTL, whereas there's nothing terribly wrong with how it is.

I also read the exchange a bit more like this:
"Captain, the kinetic barriers are on the verge of collapsing, and we have a dozen fighters firing on us," Neela's voice was laced with both anxiety and anger. Julisa's intuition told her that the latter was not directed at her. "There are bits of debris everywhere. I'm afraid if I try to go to FTL speeds, the beating we are taking will collapse the mass effect envelope before we get anywhere, and then we'll be flooded with Cherenkov/Čerenkov-"

"-radiation. I understand," Julisa finished, "but we have no choice. This is not a military vessel. We cannot take this sort of punishment for long. Get us out of here."

Though these are your characters, so you know them better than I do.

p.s. yes, I had to look up the radiation thing.

Modifié par hot_heart, 20 juillet 2012 - 09:13 .

[Drussius]

MacNasty wrote...

 One more thing. For my fic, I was wondering what you think would be the better option. Do a prologue-type part showing the main villain or something he/she has done a bit before the story started, like why they're evil and the like. Or should I just jump right on into the story? I'm not quite sure yet which to do.

I always struggle with the best way to start a story. So take the following as food for thought rather than a real suggestion:

I think it depends on how you manage to portray the villain. Readers typically have extremely varied opinions on what makes a good villain.

If you decide to start with a taste of his villainy, it might work best if it is not extremely overt, and it ties in with the overall plot of the story. I think it would be a disservice to have your 'bad guy' blow up a shuttle full of women and children just for the sake of saying that he's a bad guy (to use an extremely exaggerated example). However, done right, starting with a little taste of the conflict to come can be a great hook.

On the other hand, it sometimes works better to establish some bit of normalcy for the main protagonist in your story before you jump into the conflict with the villain. Some of the best villains are faceless until late in the story, so that the heroes can't figure out exactly who to put their guns at, but know that someone needs to be stopped, because of all of the horrific things they've set in motion.

Either way can work. I guess all I can really say is that you need to decide which best represents the flavor of your story. Good luck.

[lillitheris]

MacNasty wrote...

Pre-ME1 I'm thinking. But would you say not to put the ship names of the Quarian marines? I would guess they'd all be on the same ship, since they're all in the same squad, but I'm not sure on that.

No reason not to give them names; BW just didn’t in the game. I figured similarly…Tali was Neema at that point, so it’d make sense the others were too.

I briefly considered coming up with a ‘detached’ name for Kal’Reegar because I now have him operating directly under the Admiralty Board…but ultimately decided against it in equal parts because I couldn’t really think of a good term without resorting to inventing words, and because it works as an alias of sorts.

[Drussius]

hot_heart wrote...

Drussius wrote...
Hopefully you're finding far fewer reiterations of the same information in this chapter, and that in general it reads much more fluidly. I have been trying very hard to assimilate info on my weak points and compensate. I don't think there was a single paragraph in that whole chapter that I didn't spend some time rewording or rearranging in some fashion.

Oh, yeah. It does read rather well (it was never bad before). I'm still finding some of the dialogue a little on-the-nose, but I'm not sure how to improve on it without just going 'move this bit here, snip this bit, reword this bit'. Plus, I'm sure some people do speak that way.

Maybe it's just because I spot things like Julisa's first line being a question (thus prompting an explanation) rather than an actual demand to jump to FTL, whereas there's nothing terribly wrong with how it is.

I also read the exchange a bit more like this:
"Captain, the kinetic barriers are on the verge of collapsing, and we have a dozen fighters firing on us," Neela's voice was laced with both anxiety and anger. Julisa's intuition told her that the latter was not directed at her. "There are bits of debris everywhere. I'm afraid if I try to go to FTL speeds, the beating we are taking will collapse the mass effect envelope before we get anywhere, and then we'll be flooded with Cherenkov/Čerenkov-"

"-radiation. I understand," Julisa finished, "but we have no choice. This is not a military vessel. We cannot take this sort of punishment for long. Get us out of here."

Though these are your characters, so you know them better than I do.

p.s. yes, I had to look up the radiation thing.

I just used the spelling that was in the codex in ME1. Most of the research I did for my story used the codex from the three games, and then I filled in anything that wasn't outlined as I needed.

I appreciate everyone's input and suggestions, but based on your feedback on my previous chapter, you have a very good sense of the flow of text. So I am very glad that you're finding that it reads better, but also the areas you point out where text could be improved. I don't think I would change the example above, personally, but I do see how it flows as you reworded it too.

[Lilivati]

MacNasty wrote...

 One more thing. For my fic, I was wondering what you think would be the better option. Do a prologue-type part showing the main villain or something he/she has done a bit before the story started, like why they're evil and the like. Or should I just jump right on into the story? I'm not quite sure yet which to do.

On things like that, I'm kind of partial to the slow reveal.  Make the reader hate the antagonist, and then show them something that makes them question that judgement.  I guess I think you should know why your villain is the way they are, and incorporate it over the course of the story.  

But this is completely a matter of taste.  There's really no right or wrong way to do it.

[Drussius]

Oh, and my question for the day:

If you plan to use a character as a major part of events later in your story, would you consider it acceptable not to even introduce them until midway through the plot, when other characters first meet them? Or would your tendency be to introduce him earlier, doing his own thing, just so the readers are aware of his existence?

This question no longer applies to my story as I decided that the character I was going to add wasn't necessary to the story and the role could be filled by someone else. But I would still like to hear opinions and thoughts.

[hot_heart]

Drussius wrote...
I appreciate everyone's input and suggestions, but based on your feedback on my previous chapter, you have a very good sense of the flow of text. So I am very glad that you're finding that it reads better, but also the areas you point out where text could be improved. I don't think I would change the example above, personally, but I do see how it flows as you reworded it too.

Yeah, that's cool. If I were boiling down my broken-record stuff about dialogue, it would be to make sure you are expressing character as well as information.

I've gone back to figuring out my own story while the mood strikes, but I'm halfway through your chapter and I did want to make it clear that it is really very good. I am liking the development of the characters and the gradual reveal of who they are and where they come from. Very promising.

[MacNasty]

Drussius wrote...

Oh, and my question for the day:

If you plan to use a character as a major part of events later in your story, would you consider it acceptable not to even introduce them until midway through the plot, when other characters first meet them? Or would your tendency be to introduce him earlier, doing his own thing, just so the readers are aware of his existence?

This question no longer applies to my story as I decided that the character I was going to add wasn't necessary to the story and the role could be filled by someone else. But I would still like to hear opinions and thoughts.

For someone to be a major part of the story, it would seem best to me to introduce them earlier. They don't have to be major or anything, and heck you can even just mention them, and a little bit about them (I mean just saying the name won't mean much) but to just introduce them right when they become major seems kind of annoying. Because someone is suddenly mentioned halfway through it and is important can confuse people and make people wonder about the character, not always in the best of ways. Just what I think though, others are a bit more experienced than me.

[Drussius]

hot_heart wrote...

Drussius wrote...
I appreciate everyone's input and suggestions, but based on your feedback on my previous chapter, you have a very good sense of the flow of text. So I am very glad that you're finding that it reads better, but also the areas you point out where text could be improved. I don't think I would change the example above, personally, but I do see how it flows as you reworded it too.

Yeah, that's cool. If I were boiling down my broken-record stuff about dialogue, it would be to make sure you are expressing character as well as information.

I've gone back to figuring out my own story while the mood strikes, but I'm halfway through your chapter and I did want to make it clear that it is really very good. I am liking the development of the characters and the gradual reveal of who they are and where they come from. Very promising.

I understand completely. Our muses are fickle things. In your position, I would have stopped mid-chapter too. You have to write when your muse calls if you're able. I hope you manage to get past the stumbling point you mentioned in your story. Good luck!

[hot_heart]

Thanks. And, yeah, that wasn't a mark on your story or anything. The shifting nature actually makes for some quite handy stopping-points.

[Drussius]

MacNasty wrote...

Drussius wrote...

Oh, and my question for the day:

If you plan to use a character as a major part of events later in your story, would you consider it acceptable not to even introduce them until midway through the plot, when other characters first meet them? Or would your tendency be to introduce him earlier, doing his own thing, just so the readers are aware of his existence?

This question no longer applies to my story as I decided that the character I was going to add wasn't necessary to the story and the role could be filled by someone else. But I would still like to hear opinions and thoughts.

For someone to be a major part of the story, it would seem best to me to introduce them earlier. They don't have to be major or anything, and heck you can even just mention them, and a little bit about them (I mean just saying the name won't mean much) but to just introduce them right when they become major seems kind of annoying. Because someone is suddenly mentioned halfway through it and is important can confuse people and make people wonder about the character, not always in the best of ways. Just what I think though, others are a bit more experienced than me.

I fall a bit into both camps, which is why I decided to see what other people felt about the issue. To clarify, it wasn't my plan to introduce the character and have them serve as the key to solving an issue in the same chapter or anything. I'm not a fan of that sort of "plot element to the rescue" scenario.

 It would have been more a case where the rest of the story's cast doesn't meet the character until Chapter 10... In Chapter 15 I plan a point where the character's skills/contacts are essential to solving a dilemma. (Just making up chapters on the fly for the example here...) So is it necessary to include a quick aside in say, Chapter 5, to introduce the character, or is it sufficient to wait until the rest of the characters meet them in 10, and let the reader learn about him along with the characters from 10-14?

[lillitheris]

^ Short answer: it depends. I’d err on the side of early introduction, and deviate from that when you have a good reason.

In the spirit of “you have to know the rule to break it”.

[fluffywalrus]

MacNasty wrote...

 One more thing. For my fic, I was wondering what you think would be the better option. Do a prologue-type part showing the main villain or something he/she has done a bit before the story started, like why they're evil and the like. Or should I just jump right on into the story? I'm not quite sure yet which to do.

It's difficult to say without much context. I would say that if you decide to go and show off the villain in some form, I would really try to be vague on what's happening. IMO, the best way to handle villains early on is to la down some intrigue. Only give one or two basic details away, and don't go overboard on the "evil" factor. Remember, even Saren thought he was doing something positive for the galaxy....heck, the Starkid AI and Harbinger thought so as well. Make sure your villain has character, has depth, and has reasons for what they're doing/planning.


Also, an an entirely unrelated note, I think this blog post is pretty well done on the N# program.
Link

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 20 juillet 2012 - 10:04 .

[MacNasty]

Drussius wrote...

MacNasty wrote...

Drussius wrote...

Oh, and my question for the day:

If you plan to use a character as a major part of events later in your story, would you consider it acceptable not to even introduce them until midway through the plot, when other characters first meet them? Or would your tendency be to introduce him earlier, doing his own thing, just so the readers are aware of his existence?

This question no longer applies to my story as I decided that the character I was going to add wasn't necessary to the story and the role could be filled by someone else. But I would still like to hear opinions and thoughts.

For someone to be a major part of the story, it would seem best to me to introduce them earlier. They don't have to be major or anything, and heck you can even just mention them, and a little bit about them (I mean just saying the name won't mean much) but to just introduce them right when they become major seems kind of annoying. Because someone is suddenly mentioned halfway through it and is important can confuse people and make people wonder about the character, not always in the best of ways. Just what I think though, others are a bit more experienced than me.

I fall a bit into both camps, which is why I decided to see what other people felt about the issue. To clarify, it wasn't my plan to introduce the character and have them serve as the key to solving an issue in the same chapter or anything. I'm not a fan of that sort of "plot element to the rescue" scenario.

 It would have been more a case where the rest of the story's cast doesn't meet the character until Chapter 10... In Chapter 15 I plan a point where the character's skills/contacts are essential to solving a dilemma. (Just making up chapters on the fly for the example here...) So is it necessary to include a quick aside in say, Chapter 5, to introduce the character, or is it sufficient to wait until the rest of the characters meet them in 10, and let the reader learn about him along with the characters from 10-14?

Well you don't need to make them a signifigant thing. I was thinking you speaking more along the lines of introduce them in a chapter, then make the star of said chapter or the one following. That would be a bad idea, the way I see it. But if you're introducing them earlier, that seems fine. And sometimes, it's good to have teh character a mystery, not to give everything away, but if you're going to do something major with them, I'd let a bit of learning about them on, at least hint at what they can do if not explain it full out. That's just my opinion though, no need to go spreading it around... 

[lillitheris]

fluffywalrus wrote...

Also, an an entirely unrelated note, I think this blog post is pretty well done on the N# program.
Link

Looks like they padded the Codex entry with a couple new lines! Have to look at in detail, but I don’t think they’re introducing much new detail in it.

[fluffywalrus]

lillitheris wrote...

fluffywalrus wrote...

Also, an an entirely unrelated note, I think this blog post is pretty well done on the N# program.
Link

Looks like they padded the Codex entry with a couple new lines! Have to look at in detail, but I don’t think they’re introducing much new detail in it.

Not much new detail at all, but I thought it was well worded, easy to take in. Less vague.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Drussius wrote...

In the section you're talking about, it was intended to be a cryo-blast, not cryo ammo... Illitha mentions a paragraph or two down that she never used her omni's combat software before and she was glad it worked. And the shattering was because Aida used a biotic throw on him once he was frozen. I believe I said something like..

She focused her energy, forming a small orb of biotic force, and she hurled it at her fallen foe. He shattered into innumerable pieces, his frozen body annihilated by the force of the blow.
 
I'll take a look at it when I get a chance and see if I think it can be clarified somehow.

Edit: Sorry for taking so long to respond to the question. I basically published the Chapter and went straight to bed.

No worry. You gotta do what you gotta do.  

The principle remains the same, doesn it? It's still a form of cryo. I don't mean to infer you have to add in gory details; blood and organs splattering everywhere. I just thought the described effects were strange. And that Aida ought to, well, feel something, since she's not battle experienced. I'm just nitpicking, don't mind me.

[Drussius]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

Drussius wrote...

In the section you're talking about, it was intended to be a cryo-blast, not cryo ammo... Illitha mentions a paragraph or two down that she never used her omni's combat software before and she was glad it worked. And the shattering was because Aida used a biotic throw on him once he was frozen. I believe I said something like..

She focused her energy, forming a small orb of biotic force, and she hurled it at her fallen foe. He shattered into innumerable pieces, his frozen body annihilated by the force of the blow.
 
I'll take a look at it when I get a chance and see if I think it can be clarified somehow.

Edit: Sorry for taking so long to respond to the question. I basically published the Chapter and went straight to bed.

No worry. You gotta do what you gotta do.  

The principle remains the same, doesn it? It's still a form of cryo. I don't mean to infer you have to add in gory details; blood and organs splattering everywhere. I just thought the described effects were strange. And that Aida ought to, well, feel something, since she's not battle experienced. I'm just nitpicking, don't mind me.

No such thing as 'just nitpicking' in my view. If something strikes the reader as odd, there may be a reason for it, and it's always worth taking a second look, whether I agree or not. I'm in this as much to improve my writing as to tell a story. And I love the different views about what does and does not work. I have actually had a few conflicting opinions PMed to me on certain issues (one person loves detail X and thought it was great, another person thought it didn't contribue much and could have been cut).

While I may or may not agree with everything said about my story (or any story, for that matter), all feedback is useful. I may have a specific image in my head about how cryo-attacks work, or biotics, or whatever else, but I realize not everyone will share that image. And you do make a good point.

So if you want to nitpick, do so! I may or may not agree, but if you never mention something that seems off to you, how will I ever recognize it and figure out whether there is a better way to reach the desired presentation? I like nitpicks. Nitpick away!

[LanceSolous13]

Does anyone have a video of the ME1 Missions that relate to the War Hero, Sole Survivor, and Ruthless Backgrounds? As in, What differs if Shepard has the apropreate background? I want to know as many details about each so things will flow appropreatly.

[Drussius]

I played through the first and second games six times... once per class. And while I remember some of the details of the Earthborn, Spacer and Colonist backgrounds, when it comes to the service histories, I can't say for the life of me what missions or details were connected to them other than Sole Survivor.

In that case, Corporal Toombs was also a survivor who was taken by Cerberus and held captive so they could experiment on him and learn about the Thresher Maws. He starts killing the scientists that worked on the project, and you find him in a remote facility holding the last scientist at gunpoint. You can talk him down or let him do it or even kill the man yourself if you like.

I wish I could help on the others. Did you try going to youtube and searching for things like "Sole Survivor mission" or "Ruthless mission walkthrough," etc.? You might turn up a few videos that way to help you out. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

[Seracen]

Ursakar wrote...

Has anyone else ever suffered from a same 'disease' I seem to be suffering at the moment?

I'm more creative when I'm at work trying to write during whatever free time I have then when I'm at home. Two days ago I was at home and I've written only 400 words. Yesterday I was working and I've managed to write down almost a 1000 words.

How weird is that?

Hah, yeah, I keep a notepad handy whenever in class or at work, it's annoying sometimes.  I try to just jot notes, as I can't really sit down and type things out unless at the comfort of my desk, in my comfy chair.

[LanceSolous13]

I've been looking but I can't find anything from Mass Effect 1, just ME2 and ME3. I'm looking more for details of the past. Since I play a Sole Survivor, My Shepard said that he saw Toombs get dragged under by the Threasher Maw. So, I need to have that detail. If I remember correctly, The guy who hijacked the Bomb was for the War Hero background because he planned the Skylien Blitz but I don't have a War Hero background so I don't have many details on the sutuation. Same for Major Kyle. I'll keep looking but...

[Seracen]

MacNasty wrote...
Pre-ME1 I'm thinking. But would you say not to put the ship names of the Quarian marines? I would guess they'd all be on the same ship, since they're all in the same squad, but I'm not sure on that.

Nah, go nuts, it's your work, after all, do what feels natural to you.

PS: as for naming Shepard, I'm all for it, however, I personally only ever allude to it on occassion (and NEVER in my ME3 ending fic, as it's actually a new ending for the game).

For me, it's two-fold...

I'd rather not break immersion for the reader, but...

This IS a unique universe that is likely alien to the reader's Shepard.

So I think referencing Shep's name, but using it sparingly, is my solution to the problem.  Also, only saying "Shepard" draws more thematic similarities to the games, where nobody uses Shep's first name.