9962 réponses à ce sujet

[Drussius]

fluffywalrus wrote...

JadeDragonMTR wrote...

I'm at a difficult part of my story where I have to talk about an asari invading another mind. I don't want to call it mind rape, it's such an ugly word. But how bad do you think the act is in the eyes of asari and other species?

It's mind rape. You're (I use "you're" here just for the sake of argument, and to make my opinion clearer, obviously you're not an asari) forcing yourself upon them without their consent, and utilizing your power over theirs, taking from them what you will without thought to what they want.  It's basically raping of the mind.
I would imagine it would be taboo at best, and only special agents for the Asari governments would be given clearance to use it in special circumstances, to interrogate individuals.

I would imagine it doesn't have to be painful, or seem particularly forceful, but the result is the same. You take from another without consent, you take the most personal parts of a person without their consent. That's horrific. Near unforgivable.

I would imagine most other species aren't too aware of it. I think the Asari would prefer to keep it under wraps.

I agree with what you say here for the most part, as I stated above. The problem for me is this: How could it even be possible? I mean I understand the mechanics of a meld and all, but if there isn't a reason that it is impossible, why wouldn't it be widely used in Asari law enforcement? Or by asari criminals? Even Ardat-Yakshi seemed to need to manipulate consent out of someone. I just can't see this as an ability that could be kept under wraps. Do it to just a few individuals, and they'd be telling someone. A friend. A therapist. A doctor. Someone.

And who in their right mind would trust Asari if they could? Maybe I'm just a more private person than most, but if I found out my best friend had the capability to read my mind, I wouldn't trust him not to do it. I'd avoid him. Permanently. If an entire population could do it? I'd avoid them at all costs. No matter how much hardship it heaped on me.

[JadeDragonMTR]

fluffywalrus wrote...

JadeDragonMTR wrote...

I'm at a difficult part of my story where I have to talk about an asari invading another mind. I don't want to call it mind rape, it's such an ugly word. But how bad do you think the act is in the eyes of asari and other species?

It's mind rape. You're (I use "you're" here just for the sake of argument, and to make my opinion clearer, obviously you're not an asari) forcing yourself upon them without their consent, and utilizing your power over theirs, taking from them what you will without thought to what they want.  It's basically raping of the mind.
I would imagine it would be taboo at best, and only special agents for the Asari governments would be given clearance to use it in special circumstances, to interrogate individuals.

I would imagine it doesn't have to be painful, or seem particularly forceful, but the result is the same. You take from another without consent, you take the most personal parts of a person without their consent. That's horrific. Near unforgivable.

I would imagine most other species aren't too aware of it. I think the Asari would prefer to keep it under wraps.

I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU for your comments on my fic! Really helpful and I do very much appreciate you taking the time!

Modifié par JadeDragonMTR, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:24 .

[JadeDragonMTR]

Drussius wrote...

fluffywalrus wrote...

JadeDragonMTR wrote...

I'm at a difficult part of my story where I have to talk about an asari invading another mind. I don't want to call it mind rape, it's such an ugly word. But how bad do you think the act is in the eyes of asari and other species?

It's mind rape. You're (I use "you're" here just for the sake of argument, and to make my opinion clearer, obviously you're not an asari) forcing yourself upon them without their consent, and utilizing your power over theirs, taking from them what you will without thought to what they want.  It's basically raping of the mind.
I would imagine it would be taboo at best, and only special agents for the Asari governments would be given clearance to use it in special circumstances, to interrogate individuals.

I would imagine it doesn't have to be painful, or seem particularly forceful, but the result is the same. You take from another without consent, you take the most personal parts of a person without their consent. That's horrific. Near unforgivable.

I would imagine most other species aren't too aware of it. I think the Asari would prefer to keep it under wraps.

I agree with what you say here for the most part, as I stated above. The problem for me is this: How could it even be possible? I mean I understand the mechanics of a meld and all, but if there isn't a reason that it is impossible, why wouldn't it be widely used in Asari law enforcement? Or by asari criminals? Even Ardat-Yakshi seemed to need to manipulate consent out of someone. I just can't see this as an ability that could be kept under wraps. Do it to just a few individuals, and they'd be telling someone. A friend. A therapist. A doctor. Someone.

And who in their right mind would trust Asari if they could? Maybe I'm just a more private person than most, but if I found out my best friend had the capability to read my mind, I wouldn't trust him not to do it. I'd avoid him. Permanently. If an entire population could do it? I'd avoid them at all costs. No matter how much hardship it heaped on me.

I'm not saying this is for certain, but when you talk to Benezia on Noveria, she talks about taking the Mu relay location from the rachni queen. It doesn't sound like a consent action. No?

[Drussius]

^ It's a very vague comment. When she said it in the game, I took it as information she got by threat, not force. After all, the queen was in a tank that could be flooded with acid at a moment's notice. That would sure get my consent.

Edit: It's your story, and I could see how (putting my objections to it being possible aside), it could become critical to use a method like that to gain vital information, or how a particularly villainous person might be tempted to use it. I would personally hope that most good-hearted people would refuse to do it under any circumstances, but it could make for a powerful point in a story from either side, I suppose.

It is just also, for me at least, one of those sorts of things that turns me off of a story as a reader. It just strikes me as too 'easy button' a solution.

Modifié par Drussius, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:39 .

[fluffywalrus]

Drussius wrote...

fluffywalrus wrote...

JadeDragonMTR wrote...

I'm at a difficult part of my story where I have to talk about an asari invading another mind. I don't want to call it mind rape, it's such an ugly word. But how bad do you think the act is in the eyes of asari and other species?

It's mind rape. You're (I use "you're" here just for the sake of argument, and to make my opinion clearer, obviously you're not an asari) forcing yourself upon them without their consent, and utilizing your power over theirs, taking from them what you will without thought to what they want.  It's basically raping of the mind.
I would imagine it would be taboo at best, and only special agents for the Asari governments would be given clearance to use it in special circumstances, to interrogate individuals.

I would imagine it doesn't have to be painful, or seem particularly forceful, but the result is the same. You take from another without consent, you take the most personal parts of a person without their consent. That's horrific. Near unforgivable.

I would imagine most other species aren't too aware of it. I think the Asari would prefer to keep it under wraps.

I agree with what you say here for the most part, as I stated above. The problem for me is this: How could it even be possible? I mean I understand the mechanics of a meld and all, but if there isn't a reason that it is impossible, why wouldn't it be widely used in Asari law enforcement? Or by asari criminals? Even Ardat-Yakshi seemed to need to manipulate consent out of someone. I just can't see this as an ability that could be kept under wraps. Do it to just a few individuals, and they'd be telling someone. A friend. A therapist. A doctor. Someone.

And who in their right mind would trust Asari if they could? Maybe I'm just a more private person than most, but if I found out my best friend had the capability to read my mind, I wouldn't trust him not to do it. I'd avoid him. Permanently. If an entire population could do it? I'd avoid them at all costs. No matter how much hardship it heaped on me.

Well, from what I recall, Asari are taught to meld at a young age and generally I'd imagine there would be discussions about the morals of it. On top of that, I'd imagine it would take great strength to meld with someone forcefully. Benezia was pretty drained after taking the information from the Rachni Queen....severely drained, I would say. The Rachni Queen, as strange of a mind that it has, was not likely trained to defend itself against an inquiring Asari performing a meld. This would make me think that if one were to try to access thoughts or memories one was not actively thinking of, and did not want to think of, then it would take great skill and power to do so. This would restrict the amount of people capable of performing such forceful melds.

I'd imagine, like I said, special ops would have been trained exclusively to do such a thing, but it would not likely be easy, and the moral implications would be staggering.

I think it could be kept under wraps due to the small amount of people who would be capable of doing it, and the contexts in which it would likely be done. I don't see it as something all asari would be capable of.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

^ Another point to consider is that a forced meld might damage the mind, especially if the taker is brutal.

Q on fav books. I always re-read books by D. Weber, E Moon, M. Lackey, the late A MacCaffrey, C McCullough, F. Herbert, P. Cornwell, K. Britain, to name a few.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:02 .

[fluffywalrus]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

^ Another point to consider is that a forced meld might damage the mind, especially if the taker is brutal.

This is true. I can't rememberl if something I recall is lore, but I think I remember something along the lines of people basically having walls up, defending their minds(some walls stronger than others, due to training or personal experience). These walls would be up around thoughts that aren't on their mind, that aren't being offered freely. Breaking down those walls could possibly break one's mind.

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:06 .

[Seracen]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

^ Another point to consider is that a forced meld might damage the mind, especially if the taker is brutal.

Q on fav books. I always re-read books by D. Weber, E Moon, M. Lackey, the late A MacCaffrey, C McCullough, F. Herbert, P. Cornwell, K. Britain, to name a few.

Honestly, I figured this is why Ardat Yakshi kill their mates, the whole forced mind meld thing.

Oh, on the subject of authors, it upsets me when authors I like go out of print...I can't find anything by Elizabeth Willey or Andrea Alton 

[JadeDragonMTR]

Drussius wrote...

^ It's a very vague comment. When she said it in the game, I took it as information she got by threat, not force. After all, the queen was in a tank that could be flooded with acid at a moment's notice. That would sure get my consent.

Edit: It's your story, and I could see how (putting my objections to it being possible aside), it could become critical to use a method like that to gain vital information, or how a particularly villainous person might be tempted to use it. I would personally hope that most good-hearted people would refuse to do it under any circumstances, but it could make for a powerful point in a story from either side, I suppose.

It is just also, for me at least, one of those sorts of things that turns me off of a story as a reader. It just strikes me as too 'easy button' a solution.

These are the exact feedback I'm hoping for...thanks!

[Drussius]

No problem. That's what we're all here for. I admit to being curious as to how the situation comes up in the story and what you decide to do with it. All I ever do is just offer my opinion as food for thought. I may have strong opinions on one subject or another, but that's all they are: Opinions.

Regardless of my personal feelings on any particular subject, my counsel is always the same: Do what seems best for your story in the end!

[MacNasty]

 One question I have about how they can forcefully meld into someone's mind, for your fic anyways. Is it going to be something major as in it's used a lot, or something is used rarely, but can have a big impact. The way I see something like that is that it would be extremely hard to do, sapping the energy of both people, possibly breaking the person who is having it forced onto them (as someone else said). It seems as if something like that is used too often, it would take away some of the... Feel is the word I'm using, but it's not the word I'm trying to think of... But anyways, it kind of lessens it.  Seems like it should be something to be used only in extreme cases or it will be lessened if used to often. Hope to see it turn out well.

[MacNasty]

Crap, double post. Ignore this please.

Modifié par MacNasty, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:17 .

[JadeDragonMTR]

MacNasty wrote...

 One question I have about how they can forcefully meld into someone's mind, for your fic anyways. Is it going to be something major as in it's used a lot, or something is used rarely, but can have a big impact. The way I see something like that is that it would be extremely hard to do, sapping the energy of both people, possibly breaking the person who is having it forced onto them (as someone else said). It seems as if something like that is used too often, it would take away some of the... Feel is the word I'm using, but it's not the word I'm trying to think of... But anyways, it kind of lessens it.  Seems like it should be something to be used only in extreme cases or it will be lessened if used to often. Hope to see it turn out well.

I actually only plan on hinting that it was going to be used by one character, but I don't plan to actually let it happen. And it's only this one incident, and a very important one for my story. The way I understand it in my mind is that it's incrediblly monsterous to invade someone's mind in the asari culture. To even suggest that someone is thinking about it or threatens to use it would be crediblly intimadating/devstating/powerful/... I was uncertain the level of aggressiveness of the person who was thinking of doing it...

I don't believe this is the same as Ardat Yakshi though. In mind rape, I believe the invader seeks information. While in melding, an Ardat Yakshi seeks to own your mind and use it to sastify their desires and hunger for the process of possession. A mind invader takes the information she wants/or not, then leaves. An Ardat Yakshi doesn't leave until she is completely owns your mind and destroys it. Though I can imagine invading a mind can hurt the victim as well.

Modifié par JadeDragonMTR, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:33 .

[JadeDragonMTR]

Drussius wrote...

No problem. That's what we're all here for. I admit to being curious as to how the situation comes up in the story and what you decide to do with it. All I ever do is just offer my opinion as food for thought. I may have strong opinions on one subject or another, but that's all they are: Opinions.

Regardless of my personal feelings on any particular subject, my counsel is always the same: Do what seems best for your story in the end!

I will be sure to post a link to the chapter that includes this bit. Though now I will need to spend more time thinking about this after I absorb all your feedback!

Much love to you all!  -Jade.

[lillitheris]

I have to agree with Drussius. It feels like it can’t be possible, it would have such far-reaching implications that it would affect everyday life. People would either be trained to resist it, or the asari would be avoided.

You could introduce a character that is somehow exceptionally powerful, but they would probably be hunted down by the asari to prevent damage to their reputation—and it would be nice if you explained at least to yourself why this individual is that much more powerful than anyone else.

As a compromise, if we stipulate that consent is required, the trick is to make that easier. Hallucinogens or other substances could be used to lower the threshold—but with uncertain results. Psychological manipulation would work to a degree, but I think its efficacy would be compromised by a strong id (essentially that the subconscious will not permit it unless the conscious does, and not always even then).

Modifié par lillitheris, 22 juillet 2012 - 07:36 .

[LanceSolous13]

JadeDragonMTR wrote...

Seracen wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Does anyone have a video of the ME1 Missions that relate to the War Hero, Sole Survivor, and Ruthless Backgrounds? As in, What differs if Shepard has the apropreate background? I want to know as many details about each so things will flow appropreatly.

Yeah, I'm having a devil of a time with my Colonist War Hero.  Mindoir AND Elysium...Batarians and Shep REALLY don't get along.

Still, the wiki helped me make sense of a lot of the info.

For instance, I didn't know that Elanos Haliat was supposed to be Turian, but the game rendered him as human...so, depending on the race, it changes the WHOLE dynamic of race relations. 

Yeah, figuring out who's still around from his past is playing havoc on my backstory.  Moreover, my Shep romanced Jack, who can't have any love for Batarians either...

EDIT: ^ who knew that I could be  ninja'd by a fluffywalrus?  They be deceptively sneaky... (that's an awesome tag, btw!)

There is also a short video clip of Elanos Haliat on the Shadow Broker's ship.

There is? O_o What does it consist of?

[LanceSolous13]

In other news, I was at a game today and I kept thinking to myself, What would it look like if Krogan took Human Football and adapted it to their own culture. I think I'll write about this when I get to Shepard traveling across the galaxy to do Spectre related things.

[fluffywalrus]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

In other news, I was at a game today and I kept thinking to myself, What would it look like if Krogan took Human Football and adapted it to their own culture. I think I'll write about this when I get to Shepard traveling across the galaxy to do Spectre related things.

I think it would be a lot like Blood-Bowl, to be honest
With korgan culture the way it is during the ME timeline, I'd imagine it would pair up the two most important things for Krogan males: fighting and pride/honour.

[LanceSolous13]

fluffywalrus wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

In other news, I was at a game today and I kept thinking to myself, What would it look like if Krogan took Human Football and adapted it to their own culture. I think I'll write about this when I get to Shepard traveling across the galaxy to do Spectre related things.

I think it would be a lot like Blood-Bowl, to be honest
With korgan culture the way it is during the ME timeline, I'd imagine it would pair up the two most important things for Krogan males: fighting and pride/honour.

Pretty much. I slightly want to say this could cool down the Korgan War like issues as well.

I think I can make a decent excuse for them discovering football. Krogan are hiding in a Football Stadium while waiting for Reaper forces to pass by several hours from the current time. Krogan wonder what the hell they're hiding in. Humans explain and do a small game while waiting. Krogan love it and pass it on to different Krogan.

BRILLIANT!

Modifié par LanceSolous13, 22 juillet 2012 - 09:31 .

[Obsidian Gryphon]

^ I presumed football is referring to the sport where big hulking pads are worn and the ball oval in shape. Not the other football / soccer, where the ball is round and the requirement is to Bend It Like Beckham.  or dribble like Pele.

In the first case, yeah, Krogans might go for it. They would have to look for a metallic ball though.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 22 juillet 2012 - 09:55 .

[LanceSolous13]

Yeah...I slightly forgot that the term is different between nations. Oops.

[lillitheris]

^ Confusion is understandable. After all, in one game you play with a ball using your feet, and in the other you carry an egg-shaped thing in your hands.

[LanceSolous13]

But, yeah, Headbutting Violent Jump-anyone-who-has-the-ball kind of Football. It sounds perfect for Krogan does it not?

Hell, look at Grunt in ME2. The Art Book says they based his armor off of a football uniform (I think they said that. Might need to double check.)

[hot_heart]

JadeDragonMTR wrote...
I actually only plan on hinting that it was going to be used by one character, but I don't plan to actually let it happen. And it's only this one incident, and a very important one for my story.

I think other people have offered a lot of good feedback. The other angle I would consider is how ignorant the target is. Rather than you hinting it would be used, the character could threaten its usage despite its impossibility.

...or you could give it negative side-effects (perhaps it absorbs all their memories and that, Rogue-style). That could alter the story in drastic and interesting ways. After all, the whole concept has severe implications.

Modifié par hot_heart, 22 juillet 2012 - 10:28 .

[lillitheris]

hot_heart wrote...

JadeDragonMTR wrote...
I actually only plan on hinting that it was going to be used by one character, but I don't plan to actually let it happen. And it's only this one incident, and a very important one for my story.

I think other people have offered a lot of good feedback. The other angle I would consider is how ignorant the target is. Rather than you hinting it would be used, the character could threaten its usage despite its impossibility.

This is a good approach.