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#3826
Lilivati

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Drussius wrote...

Has anyone else written a part of their story and then realized that something else really needed to be included first? This seems to happen to me a lot. Maybe it's because I do my writing on the fly...

I do a lot of writing out of sequence (probably too much).  I have a separate document for everything I write other than short stories that holds "scrap" content- stuff I've cut and want to come back to, out of sequence snippets, random drabble, etc.  Sometimes getting an idea whose time is not  yet come out of my head helps focus, or sometimes it just stops me worrying about forgetting it, particularly when a scene is crystal-clear in mind.  But on the other hand it slows down progression.  

So to answer your question- yeah, this happens quite a lot.  XD  It's actually the whole reason I stopped writing Aftermath for the time being.  There was simply too much background stuff I wanted to work through first, for my own benefit at least.

#3827
enayasoul

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Lilivati wrote...

Drussius wrote...

Has anyone else written a part of their story and then realized that something else really needed to be included first? This seems to happen to me a lot. Maybe it's because I do my writing on the fly...

I do a lot of writing out of sequence (probably too much).  I have a separate document for everything I write other than short stories that holds "scrap" content- stuff I've cut and want to come back to, out of sequence snippets, random drabble, etc.  Sometimes getting an idea whose time is not  yet come out of my head helps focus, or sometimes it just stops me worrying about forgetting it, particularly when a scene is crystal-clear in mind.  But on the other hand it slows down progression.  

So to answer your question- yeah, this happens quite a lot.  XD  It's actually the whole reason I stopped writing Aftermath for the time being.  There was simply too much background stuff I wanted to work through first, for my own benefit at least.


Yep!  At one point I had to re-organize my whole beginning to fit the new directions I wanted to take with it with later chapters.  Most of the chapters kind of flow into each other.  Other times I use time passing to give some distance from the chapters to progress the story along.  I do generally touch on subjects or pull ideas from chapters already written to expand more or lead the reader in that direction. 

I've also had to cut a lot of scenes that just didn't quite fit or it was too much. I often used the scenes in different places farther in the chapters. I have lots of ideas in different documents and labeled folders to that character or in general.  It's better to write the idea out fully and come back to it later on.  If it fits or not with the current story.

I often save the original idea of the chapter and then save revisions of revision to see the progress or go back if what I was attempting to write didn't quite go in the way I wanted it to.  Mostly the chapter writes itself, if I know what I want to accomplish in that chapter.

It's always a good feeling when you've worked all the kinks out of a chapter and having it flow how you imagined or turned out differently but in a good way.   It generally takes me a good few weeks or more to get a chapter done because mine are so long. Generally 20-43 pages. :) 

Starting and finishing the chapters can be a challenge but you don't want to repeat yourself but come up with new ways which I need to do more of. :)

I tend to get a lot of inspiration from watching tv, movies, music, pictures, reading topics of interests, research and watching other people in general.  Sometimes I include real life peoples quirks into the characters.  I tend to do a lot of daydreaming.  It's funny sometimes in the shower, the problem with a story will come to me. haha. wierd... or when I'm at work.  I'll be like "Oh yeah!"  Work is pretty boring at times.

Sometimes I'd dream of interesting scenerios and wake up remembering them and jotting them down. 

:happy:

#3828
lillitheris

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The shower is an awesome place to solve problems. You’d be surprised how much programming happens there…

My personal assumption is that it’s a combination of the comfort of the warmth, the sound that drowns out external stimulus, the water hitting your skin overloading tactile senses, and the general featureless, enclosed space with little to do.

It’s, essentially, a shortcut to meditation.



I only keep some notes about things I think of for the story in the future…I feel like I’d be constraining myself if I wrote out complete scenes ahead of time. It’s not really true, but it’s a mental block.

I definitely do try to jot down interesting stuff, just not in much detail. So long as it’s recorded in some way, somewhere, that’s OK…then it can simmer in peace, with an occasional look over the note list to see if any of it could benefit from foreshadowing or whatever.

Modifié par lillitheris, 07 août 2012 - 06:23 .


#3829
MrStoob

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Hi ho all, been a while since I visited.

I'm up to the beginning of ME2 with my tale and something occurred to me that hadn't before, what was Wilson's motivation?  It's not particularly explained in-game.  I was pondering 2 scenarios (not to include in me FF, just pondering).

1.  He is employed by the SB, to wreck Cerberus' plans re: Shepard for whatever dastardly reasons the SB does stuff.

2.  The whole scenario on the facility is fabricated by TIM for Miranda and Jacob to convince Shep they are on his/her side and gain trust, Wilson being the scapegoat.

Had a bit of a dry period recently, just couldn't decide where my story was going.  Thankfully I seem to be over that for now.

:)

Modifié par MrStoob, 07 août 2012 - 06:37 .


#3830
xIxDarkWolfxIx

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MrStoob wrote...

Hi ho all, been a while since I visited.
I'm up to the beginning of ME2 with my tale and something occurred to me that hadn't before, what was Wilson's motivation?  It's not particularly explained in-game.  I was pondering 2 scenarios (not to include in me FF, just pondering).  1.  He is employed by the SB, to wreck Cerberus' plans re: Shepard for whatever dastardly reasons the SB does stuff.  2.  The whole scenario on the facility is fabricated by TIM for Miranda and Jacob to convince Shep they are on his/her side, Wilson being the scapegoat.
Had a bit of a dry period recently, just couldn't decide where my story was going.  Thankfully I seem to be over that for now.

:)


LotSB confirms that Wilson was indeed an agent of the SB. I belive it is mixed in with the Legion files. =)

#3831
MrStoob

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xIxDarkWolfxIx wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

Hi ho all, been a while since I visited.
I'm up to the beginning of ME2 with my tale and something occurred to me that hadn't before, what was Wilson's motivation?  It's not particularly explained in-game.  I was pondering 2 scenarios (not to include in me FF, just pondering).  1.  He is employed by the SB, to wreck Cerberus' plans re: Shepard for whatever dastardly reasons the SB does stuff.  2.  The whole scenario on the facility is fabricated by TIM for Miranda and Jacob to convince Shep they are on his/her side, Wilson being the scapegoat.
Had a bit of a dry period recently, just couldn't decide where my story was going.  Thankfully I seem to be over that for now.

:)


LotSB confirms that Wilson was indeed an agent of the SB. I belive it is mixed in with the Legion files. =)


Ooh, seemed to miss that.  Ta.

#3832
Drussius

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Welcome back, Stoob!

That's really all I have to say at this juncture... so... back to work, all of you! Posted Image

#3833
hot_heart

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That moment when you finish typing a mini-conversation, look at it and think, "This sucks. Why did I even write this out?" then proceed to delete the whole thing and replace it with: A brief conversation sets me on the right track...

This is why writing takes me a while... <_<

#3834
Drussius

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^ I rarely remove superfluous conversation from my writing. I figure at the very least that it can help to expand on relationships and interactions and give hints as to the thoughts or feelings of those involved. Some of the conversations I write tend to ramble into territory that has little to do with the plot, but if it has something to do with the characters and their thoughts, I figure there's still merit to it.

#3835
Lilivati

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Drussius wrote...

^ I rarely remove superfluous conversation from my writing. I figure at the very least that it can help to expand on relationships and interactions and give hints as to the thoughts or feelings of those involved. Some of the conversations I write tend to ramble into territory that has little to do with the plot, but if it has something to do with the characters and their thoughts, I figure there's still merit to it.

I can see this being the case.  I've never written a conversation where it didn't teach me something about the characters involved or the situation they're in- and that's the kind of thing I love in other people's writing.  But I have an extremely dialog-heavy writing style as it is, so for me, the occasional pruning is almost necessary.

#3836
MacNasty

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 For my story, the prologue, being unrelated to the main character, at least for now, is all I have for the moment, at least it's very nearly ready to be posted. But should I wait until I have a chapter involving the main character of the story or should I just publish it (or whatever its called on FFN) when it's ready?

Modifié par MacNasty, 07 août 2012 - 09:37 .


#3837
hot_heart

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In this instance, it was nothing more than Miranda inside an Alliance base, asking for directions while trying to look ditsy/innocent rather than suspicious.

I would rather have something meaningful being said, as that's how I've been taught, but I don't mind some expanding on character over plot. Just that the above really served no purpose whatsoever for my story, especially since I'm sort of writing to a 'theme'.

Having said all that, though, I could warp the exchange into something with some tension perhaps...or highlight how out-of-the-loop Miranda may have become during ME3...
Think I'm just a bit sick of most of Miranda's conversation's having some form of underlying hostility. :P

#3838
ladyvader

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hot_heart wrote...

That moment when you finish typing a mini-conversation, look at it and think, "This sucks. Why did I even write this out?" then proceed to delete the whole thing and replace it with: A brief conversation sets me on the right track...

This is why writing takes me a while... <_<

I've been known to cut pages out of my stories because I didn't like where things were going.  Epilogue of "Crossroads" is the perfect example.  I cut at least 5 pages from it and did a complete rewrite of 1/3 of it.

Now, I'm trying to get the first chapter of my new post ME3 arc written.  It's been a slow slow grind the past two days.  I think I'll pick up the pace once I get past this first chapter.

I hope anyway.  :whistle:

#3839
hot_heart

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Sometimes it can be cathartic to completely tear down a section of writing and build it again. Though I've never quite had to go to that extent... :blink:

#3840
ladyvader

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hot_heart wrote...

Sometimes it can be cathartic to completely tear down a section of writing and build it again. Though I've never quite had to go to that extent... :blink:

I did keep what I wrote, but I don't have another story to add it to.  

I think I rewrote parts of the epilogue three times before I was happy with it.  :blink:

Modifié par ladyvader, 07 août 2012 - 09:52 .


#3841
gearseffect

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Hello fellows,
I come back, still hard at work writing. But I come back with another issue,

I find that writing 3 characters for me is beyond hard, Rupert, Tali, and Kasumi. The first one Rupert is easy to write dialogue and put him in scenes but I can't seem to find the right way to bring him in and out, he just ends up randomly saying something and then a few lines are exchanged usually use him for comic relief but then he just sort of stops talking and isn't there.

In other words he is becoming like the random dude that pops in and out and says something to be funny and is gone again. I don't know maybe it's just me being odd and a bit new to writing things on this scale?

But Tali and Kasumi I can't write them for anything, unless I'm writing things from the game but then I feel as if it's redundant and out of place, because I've been putting my own twist on those events.

The problem with those two characters for me stems from the fact that I've never really connected with either of them. They were just there and didn't really do anything for me. So writing for them is like the hardest thing to do.

I can write for characters like Miranda who to me was a stuck up b!tch,
Liara, whom I at one time liked. She's proving to be a fun foil and adds this bizarre love interest/attention rivalry with many characters, I created a cool thing here with Liara.

The odd thing is all the other quarians are easy for me to write but Tali is like impossible due to me not ever having any connection to her, and being completely natural/indifferent to her character.

For those who are gonna think this, and ask why do I even attempt to put them in there? Because I have to. I'm giving my Shep's story a proper finale arch and if I just throw such characters out it ends up defeating one of my biggest purposes of these fics.

Oh and I am dreading figuring out how to handle the Rachni dang it that's gonna suck.

#3842
Lilivati

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hot_heart wrote...

Sometimes it can be cathartic to completely tear down a section of writing and build it again. Though I've never quite had to go to that extent... :blink:

My task for the evening is to trash the first two chapters of a piece of non-fanfic writing that are frankly **** and rewrite.  The rest of it so far is ok but I want to hand it over to a beta reader soon and those chapters make me cringe.  I probably won't finish tonight.  It's the sort of thing I dread going into (all that work for nothing!) but I always feel renewed once it's over...

#3843
Icyflare

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MacNasty wrote...

 For my story, the prologue, being unrelated to the main character, at least for now, is all I have for the moment, at least it's very nearly ready to be posted. But should I wait until I have a chapter involving the main character of the story or should I just publish it (or whatever its called on FFN) when it's ready?


Up to you, really. If you feel more comfortable waiting until you have a chapter with the main character, then by all means, wait. Like Drussius mentioned some posts up, waiting has its benefits, as you can shift around story elements before publishing it and, therefore, make it flow better. Otherwise, if you're itching to publish, then go ahead.

I would personally recommend waiting until you got a chapter with the main character. Mostly because it'll give you plenty of time to edit and adjust previous chapters as you write your way to the one with the MC. Again, up to you.

Modifié par Icyflare, 08 août 2012 - 12:08 .


#3844
Lilivati

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gearseffect wrote...

But Tali and Kasumi I can't write them for anything, unless I'm writing things from the game but then I feel as if it's redundant and out of place, because I've been putting my own twist on those events.

The problem with those two characters for me stems from the fact that I've never really connected with either of them. They were just there and didn't really do anything for me. So writing for them is like the hardest thing to do.


That's hard.  I have the same problem with several other characters, for the same reasons.  :-/  I don't know if this will help, but here's how I've always seen Tali and Kasumi.  Obviously this is just me and different players are going to have different perspectives or emphasis.

Tali is everyone's little sister.  She's younger than the rest (she's only 25 in ME3), she's a bit bumbling in everyday life, and though she's honest to a fault it always comes out in the most awkward way possible.  Her mother died when she was a child and she was left in the care of an aloof father who couldn't tell the difference between loving his daughter and loving his people- he was a big picture guy with a child who needed tangible affection.  So she's been responsible for herself (to greater or lesser degrees) since her mother's death, and it's left her a legacy of just figuring it out as she goes and hoping for the best.  At times this gives her a surprising depth of maturity (like when she swallows her pride and compromises on the data with Legion in ME2), while at others she looks like a kid playing dress-up in her father's clothes (like when she has no idea how to make the other admirals listen to her).  She's that inscrutable combination of wise beyond her years and hopelessly naive that comes from having to raise yourself.  She's terrified that her inexperience is transparent to everyone around her.  There's a reason she obsesses on Miranda- Miranda was in more-or-less the same situation as Tali, with a cruddy father and a lonely childhood filled with expectations beyond her ability to meet, but Miranda actually has her **** together.  Tali's never in her life had her **** together.  Tali's at a point in her life where she's trying to break free from what everyone else wants her to do, and figure out what she herself wants.  She's also new to the world of romantic relationships and often conflates sexuality with maturity in an attempt to seem attractive to the objects of her affection, much like a teenaged girl.  Her comments about wanting to feel Shepard's skin against hers or using Garrus for his body feel out of place, if sweetly so.

Kasumi on the other hand is a charmed woman.  She's only a little older than Tali, but she has the world on a string, and likely this has been the case since she was a child.  Despite her youth she's at the pinnacle of her profession, and she's rarely encountered failure, which makes her cocky to the point of irritating those around her.  It's probable that she began training as a thief in her youth, and that she's childish because she never had a childhood.  And, oh my, is she childish- she's unable to take anything seriously, she keeps trophies from her memorable jobs and will leave clients in the lurch if it seems more fun, and she keeps a diary that reads like Bella Swan.  It's unclear whether her paramour embraced or tolerated this quality of hers.  She's oddly charming, though, carrying an irreverant air that's designed to convince the world that she sees life as nothing more than a giant game.  The only time she's ever really lost anything- Keiji- it became an all-consuming obsession.  She doesn't know how to confront loss in a healthy manner.  She feels strongly that she's deeply, madly in love with Keiji, romance-novel-style, but there's no evidence of any depth to it.  She'll mourn her loss in one breath and gush about Jacob in the next.  But she's damn good at what she does, and she won't ever let anyone forget it- her job requires her to operate in isolation, so in a very real sense, it's all she has.  Keiji broke through that shell and was a part of that world, and a part of me wonders if that shared connection is what Kasumi truly misses, more than Keiji himself.  He died and left her, once more, a lonely thief.  Even her clothing speaks to the contrast- she shields her face to prevent identification, but goes out of her way to make her visible make-up very distinct.  She can't have a public life but she wants desperately to be noticed and acknowledged- validated. 

Modifié par Lilivati, 08 août 2012 - 02:25 .


#3845
lillitheris

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^ Interesting takes—many similarities, and many deviations from how I see the two… but I think it illustrates, at least, the kind of process that you can use. If you read carefully, you can see where in the game Lilivati is anchoring each of those little bits, and you can use the same process, even from the very same parts, to try to refine your interpretation.

#3846
Spiritwolf1

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Lilivati wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

But Tali and Kasumi I can't write them for anything, unless I'm writing things from the game but then I feel as if it's redundant and out of place, because I've been putting my own twist on those events.

The problem with those two characters for me stems from the fact that I've never really connected with either of them. They were just there and didn't really do anything for me. So writing for them is like the hardest thing to do.


That's hard.  I have the same problem with several other characters, for the same reasons.  :-/  I don't know if this will help, but here's how I've always seen Tali and Kasumi.  Obviously this is just me and different players are going to have different perspectives or emphasis.

Tali is everyone's little sister.  She's younger than the rest (she's only 25 in ME3), she's a bit bumbling in everyday life, and though she's honest to a fault it always comes out in the most awkward way possible.  Her mother died when she was a child and she was left in the care of an aloof father who couldn't tell the difference between loving his daughter and loving his people- he was a big picture guy with a child who needed tangible affection.  So she's been responsible for herself (to greater or lesser degrees) since her mother's death, and it's left her a legacy of just figuring it out as she goes and hoping for the best.  At times this gives her a surprising depth of maturity (like when she swallows her pride and compromises on the data with Legion in ME2), while at others she looks like a kid playing dress-up in her father's clothes (like when she has no idea how to make the other admirals listen to her).  She's that inscrutable combination of wise beyond her years and hopelessly naive that comes from having to raise yourself.  She's terrified that her inexperience is transparent to everyone around her.  There's a reason she obsesses on Miranda- Miranda was in more-or-less the same situation as Tali, with a cruddy father and a lonely childhood filled with expectations beyond her ability to meet, but Miranda actually has her **** together.  Tali's never in her life had her **** together.  Tali's at a point in her life where she's trying to break free from what everyone else wants her to do, and figure out what she herself wants.  She's also new to the world of romantic relationships and often conflates sexuality with maturity in an attempt to seem attractive to the objects of her affection, much like a teenaged girl.  Her comments about wanting to feel Shepard's skin against hers or using Garrus for his body feel out of place, if sweetly so.

Kasumi on the other hand is a charmed woman.  She's only a little older than Tali, but she has the world on a string, and likely this has been the case since she was a child.  Despite her youth she's at the pinnacle of her profession, and she's rarely encountered failure, which makes her cocky to the point of irritating those around her.  It's probable that she began training as a thief in her youth, and that she's childish because she never had a childhood.  And, oh my, is she childish- she's unable to take anything seriously, she keeps trophies from her memorable jobs and will leave clients in the lurch if it seems more fun, and she keeps a diary that reads like Bella Swan.  It's unclear whether her paramour embraced or tolerated this quality of hers.  She's oddly charming, though, carrying an irreverant air that's designed to convince the world that she sees life as nothing more than a giant game.  The only time she's ever really lost anything- Keiji- it became an all-consuming obsession.  She doesn't know how to confront loss in a healthy manner.  She feels strongly that she's deeply, madly in love with Keiji, romance-novel-style, but there's no evidence of any depth to it.  She'll mourn her loss in one breath and gush about Jacob in the next.  But she's damn good at what she does, and she won't ever let anyone forget it- her job requires her to operate in isolation, so in a very real sense, it's all she has.  Keiji broke through that shell and was a part of that world, and a part of me wonders if that shared connection is what Kasumi truly misses, more than Keiji himself.  He died and left her, once more, a lonely thief.  Even her clothing speaks to the contrast- she shields her face to prevent identification, but goes out of her way to make her visible make-up very distinct.  She can't have a public life but she wants desperately to be noticed and acknowledged- validated. 



Very well thought out, much the same views I had.

#3847
Drussius

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Wow. Another landmark day of writing for me!

I felt a little out of my depth this time, as I was muddling through a section dealing with trauma treatment and haven't a clue about anything medical in origin, but I think I managed with the help of a little research. I just hope that if our resident medical professional reads it, the criticisms aren't too harsh on the writing in question. I tried to stay vague enough not to offend the people with medical knowledge without being so ambiguous that it seemed too unrealistic.

I can understand now why some writers prefer to steer clear of writing about subjects they aren't familiar with! This was rough!

#3848
MrStoob

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Re: writing about characters you didn't connect with.

I have similar problems with some characters. Garrus, Wrex and Tali barely appear in the ME1 arc of my fic beyond comic relief and the odd bravado moment. I found that, if I can't write anything constructive to write about a character, I just don't bother lol. It's not their story I want to tell anyway.

Is that defeatist? ^^

#3849
xIxDarkWolfxIx

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Drussius wrote...

Wow. Another landmark day of writing for me!

I felt a little out of my depth this time, as I was muddling through a section dealing with trauma treatment and haven't a clue about anything medical in origin, but I think I managed with the help of a little research. I just hope that if our resident medical professional reads it, the criticisms aren't too harsh on the writing in question. I tried to stay vague enough not to offend the people with medical knowledge without being so ambiguous that it seemed too unrealistic.

I can understand now why some writers prefer to steer clear of writing about subjects they aren't familiar with! This was rough!


I did the exact same thing today. I was pretty impressed with my use of the Hayflick limit, haha. =) 

#3850
Lilivati

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MrStoob wrote...

Re: writing about characters you didn't connect with.

I have similar problems with some characters. Garrus, Wrex and Tali barely appear in the ME1 arc of my fic beyond comic relief and the odd bravado moment. I found that, if I can't write anything constructive to write about a character, I just don't bother lol. It's not their story I want to tell anyway.

Is that defeatist? ^^


Nah.  It's your story.  You can highlight what (and who) you want. ;)

That said, it can be an opportunity as well.  I was dreading writing Ash, but it turned out to be a good challenge for me, and while I still don't like her, I understand her a lot better now, which isn't nothing.