9962 réponses à ce sujet

[hot_heart]

Hmm, can't say I'd noticed that but, yeah, his speech is not like Mordin's. I can see why someone might take issue.

[Drussius]

Mordin seems to favor brevity a lot more than most Salarians in the game. But with that said, I prefer Mordin's speech patterns. Any salarian I've written has been closer to Mordin's end of the spectrum than Kirrahe's. I start with baseline Mordin speech and then go through and add in a few words. I think cutting some of the 'unnecessary' words gives the salarian dialogue a better feel, personally.

But I suppose I can see how some people might object in the case of an established character. I'd have to read the section in question to really offer any constructive criticism. The above is just... thoughts.

[hot_heart]

Yeah, I think everyone loves how Mordin speaks, and we'd like all salarians to sound that way. I don't see anything wrong with incorporating some of those idiosyncrasies into original characters, but not ones with an already established speech pattern, i.e. Kirrahe.

In story news: Now, I think I've created a problem in this chapter by trying to be too smart. Damnit...

Modifié par hot_heart, 12 août 2012 - 09:11 .

[Spiritwolf1]

I cant resist such a great pic... This is for the garrus fans

http://browse.devian...set=24#/d4vzn6d

[gearseffect]

Lilivati wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

But Tali and Kasumi I can't write them for anything, unless I'm writing things from the game but then I feel as if it's redundant and out of place, because I've been putting my own twist on those events.

The problem with those two characters for me stems from the fact that I've never really connected with either of them. They were just there and didn't really do anything for me. So writing for them is like the hardest thing to do.

That's hard.  I have the same problem with several other characters, for the same reasons.  :-/  I don't know if this will help, but here's how I've always seen Tali and Kasumi.  Obviously this is just me and different players are going to have different perspectives or emphasis.

Tali is everyone's little sister.  She's younger than the rest (she's only 25 in ME3), she's a bit bumbling in everyday life, and though she's honest to a fault it always comes out in the most awkward way possible.  Her mother died when she was a child and she was left in the care of an aloof father who couldn't tell the difference between loving his daughter and loving his people- he was a big picture guy with a child who needed tangible affection.  So she's been responsible for herself (to greater or lesser degrees) since her mother's death, and it's left her a legacy of just figuring it out as she goes and hoping for the best.  At times this gives her a surprising depth of maturity (like when she swallows her pride and compromises on the data with Legion in ME2), while at others she looks like a kid playing dress-up in her father's clothes (like when she has no idea how to make the other admirals listen to her).  She's that inscrutable combination of wise beyond her years and hopelessly naive that comes from having to raise yourself.  She's terrified that her inexperience is transparent to everyone around her.  There's a reason she obsesses on Miranda- Miranda was in more-or-less the same situation as Tali, with a cruddy father and a lonely childhood filled with expectations beyond her ability to meet, but Miranda actually has her **** together.  Tali's never in her life had her **** together.  Tali's at a point in her life where she's trying to break free from what everyone else wants her to do, and figure out what she herself wants.  She's also new to the world of romantic relationships and often conflates sexuality with maturity in an attempt to seem attractive to the objects of her affection, much like a teenaged girl.  Her comments about wanting to feel Shepard's skin against hers or using Garrus for his body feel out of place, if sweetly so.

Kasumi on the other hand is a charmed woman.  She's only a little older than Tali, but she has the world on a string, and likely this has been the case since she was a child.  Despite her youth she's at the pinnacle of her profession, and she's rarely encountered failure, which makes her cocky to the point of irritating those around her.  It's probable that she began training as a thief in her youth, and that she's childish because she never had a childhood.  And, oh my, is she childish- she's unable to take anything seriously, she keeps trophies from her memorable jobs and will leave clients in the lurch if it seems more fun, and she keeps a diary that reads like Bella Swan.  It's unclear whether her paramour embraced or tolerated this quality of hers.  She's oddly charming, though, carrying an irreverant air that's designed to convince the world that she sees life as nothing more than a giant game.  The only time she's ever really lost anything- Keiji- it became an all-consuming obsession.  She doesn't know how to confront loss in a healthy manner.  She feels strongly that she's deeply, madly in love with Keiji, romance-novel-style, but there's no evidence of any depth to it.  She'll mourn her loss in one breath and gush about Jacob in the next.  But she's damn good at what she does, and she won't ever let anyone forget it- her job requires her to operate in isolation, so in a very real sense, it's all she has.  Keiji broke through that shell and was a part of that world, and a part of me wonders if that shared connection is what Kasumi truly misses, more than Keiji himself.  He died and left her, once more, a lonely thief.  Even her clothing speaks to the contrast- she shields her face to prevent identification, but goes out of her way to make her visible make-up very distinct.  She can't have a public life but she wants desperately to be noticed and acknowledged- validated. 

Yeah I still can't write Tali for jacksh!t and your summery of her don't help. One of the things I'm really doing with my fics is sort of showing and exploring MY Shep's relationships with the characters and do the finale arch BW lead us to believe we'd be getting. With lots of character development and depth. SO I've been trying take each character go okay this is how MY Shep got along with these characters and say okay this is what they talk about when off duty or whatever and then write that as such. 

Like for instance I was having trouble writing Grunt and I was trying to do some like test runs with typed up convos and stuff and for whatever reason I'd suddenly feel the need to have a Ravenger pop into the scene so Grunt could kill it and that's what they'd talk about. It was a pattern and then it slapped me Holy cr@p Grunt just talks battle and Krogan history!!! There was my defining thing, the loop hole to get his character down.

That being said Tali's been in all three games and I have yet to feel like I have had a real conversastion with her, because she' just don't have her own personal identity. Everyone seems to try and tell me to write her like a kid sister or the nerdy girl, or something but I can't Tali isn't like a kid sister to me. She's also not the nerdy girl. She's just been the +1 in all three games the carry on, and she offered nothing to my Shep. Garrus was that brother, the dude that My Shep would be walking into hell with. Garrus is the brother in arms dude. Tali she's yeah she's just there.

Kasumi ironicly after doing some test runs and what not I'm starting to get a feel for her and how she fits in things and everything. But Tali she's nothing just that +1, the carry on, a blank slate, no real identity of her own and as such Tali's just been there and yet she's not really been there if that makes sense, she just was there.

[Spiritwolf1]

gearseffect wrote...


Yeah I still can't write Tali for jacksh!t and your summery of her don't help. One of the things I'm really doing with my fics is sort of showing and exploring MY Shep's relationships with the characters and do the finale arch BW lead us to believe we'd be getting. With lots of character development and depth. SO I've been trying take each character go okay this is how MY Shep got along with these characters and say okay this is what they talk about when off duty or whatever and then write that as such. 

Like for instance I was having trouble writing Grunt and I was trying to do some like test runs with typed up convos and stuff and for whatever reason I'd suddenly feel the need to have a Ravenger pop into the scene so Grunt could kill it and that's what they'd talk about. It was a pattern and then it slapped me Holy cr@p Grunt just talks battle and Krogan history!!! There was my defining thing, the loop hole to get his character down.

That being said Tali's been in all three games and I have yet to feel like I have had a real conversastion with her, because she' just don't have her own personal identity. Everyone seems to try and tell me to write her like a kid sister or the nerdy girl, or something but I can't Tali isn't like a kid sister to me. She's also not the nerdy girl. She's just been the +1 in all three games the carry on, and she offered nothing to my Shep. Garrus was that brother, the dude that My Shep would be walking into hell with. Garrus is the brother in arms dude. Tali she's yeah she's just there.

Kasumi ironicly after doing some test runs and what not I'm starting to get a feel for her and how she fits in things and everything. But Tali she's nothing just that +1, the carry on, a blank slate, no real identity of her own and as such Tali's just been there and yet she's not really been there if that makes sense, she just was there.

My suggestion would be not to write for her then, or find someone to write her for you

[hot_heart]

Yeah, without wanting to sound rude, it sounds like you shouldn't write for her. Partly, because you probably wouldn't do the character justice and mainly because if you can't picture how she fits into the story, she doesn't need to be there.

Obviously, I'm approaching this from a strictly 'craft' point of view. I know a lot of FF writers tend to write for wish fulfilment or just fun in general.

To be more constructive, there is a method that includes asking questions of your characters to help define them. Put them in extreme situations and imagine how they'd react. Someday I'll find the exact document I was given but I recall one involved picturing what they'd do if they saw a homeless man suffering a heart attack (I guess some might not even realise).

Sounds bizarre, but it can be a useful exercise. Especially if you're trying to keep your characters diverse.

Modifié par hot_heart, 12 août 2012 - 11:11 .

[Drussius]

I have to agree with hot. While I wish I had something constructive to add on the dilemma of writing Tali, all I can say is that if you can't write her, it should probably be avoided. While writing the story you want to write is most important, some readers might be put off by a poor portrayal of their favorite characters.

My favorites are Garrus, Tali and Liara, personally (not necessarily in that order), and I know I'd lose interest quickly in a story that didn't do them justice. Sort of like I imagine you would with a story that didn't portray Samara well.

That said, using the "getting to know you" excercise mentioned above might be worth trying. I know that I use something similar when fleshing out my OCs. It can help to get into the head of the character you're writing.

Although, a final thought here, if Tali didn't appeal to you in the game and she was "just there," as you put it, and your story is about your Shepard's interaction with the crew, perhaps putting it into your Shep's perspective and stating that while she tried, she just couldn't get close to Tali, and when the opportunity to talk came up, she found herself drifting off to relax with Garrus or Wrex instead, might be enough to justify keeping Miss vas Normandy on the peripherals of your work.

[Lilivati]

I'm sorry that my attempt to encapsulate the characters for you wasn't helpful. It sounds like your frustration with trying to write Tali especially is at a peak, which may mean it's time to lay it to rest, at least for a little while. There's no reason why every character has to appear in every story, and there's certainly a whole host of other things Tali could be doing off-screen at any given point in time (if you wanted to include her peripherally).

From what you've written here, YOUR Shep had no relationship to speak of with Tali- so why would s/he spend a whole lot of time talking to her off-duty, or have any in-depth growth as a result of knowing her? For YOUR Shep, maybe Tali really was just that engineer in the subdeck who knows a lot about geth and doesn't say much. My general point is that you don't need to force yourself to write what you clearly don't want to write. Maybe if you put it aside for awhile an idea will come to you.

I'm glad to hear things are going better with Kasumi. She's definitely a rough one to wrap your head around.

[Dark Satris]

Drussius wrote...

Dark Satris wrote...

need help again. Whats the name of the alliance fighters? (the type you see star-brat playing with at the beginning of the campaign)

Now this may be incorrect... I haven't looked it up. But in ME2, wasn't "Alliance Corsair" a name of a fighter sim game mentioned at a store on the citadel? Perhaps the fighters are called Corsairs?



Unrelated note: I have no idea where the concentration of muses holding a convention in my work room came from, but I live in constant fear that they'll leave. I've been tearing through my writing at a fever pitch of late, and I don't want the creative streak to end!

this post is a little late, but i seem to recall the name Viper (and no, not because of the sniper), so thats what ill be calling it. unless someone from Bioware somehow reads this and knows the real name, or if i find it.

Modifié par Dark Satris, 13 août 2012 - 01:49 .

[Drussius]

Dark Satris wrote...

Drussius wrote...

Dark Satris wrote...

need help again. Whats the name of the alliance fighters? (the type you see star-brat playing with at the beginning of the campaign)

Now this may be incorrect... I haven't looked it up. But in ME2, wasn't "Alliance Corsair" a name of a fighter sim game mentioned at a store on the citadel? Perhaps the fighters are called Corsairs?



Unrelated note: I have no idea where the concentration of muses holding a convention in my work room came from, but I live in constant fear that they'll leave. I've been tearing through my writing at a fever pitch of late, and I don't want the creative streak to end!

this post is a little late, but i seem to recall the name Viper (and no, not because of the sniper), so thats what ill be calling it. unless someone from Bioware somehow reads this and knows the real name, or if i find it.

Just found this on the wiki page:

A-61 Mantis Gunship: Can be reconfigured as a low-altitude gunship, a fighter, a high-altitude bomber, or even a single-stage-to-orbit spaceplane that can engage enemy craft around a planet or a space station; however it lacks an FTL drive and thus has a constrained range.

F-61 Trident Fighter: A mainstay of the Alliance Navy, deployed in deep space engagements from Carriers. Highly maneuverable in low-atmosphere conditions.

So, based on that, I'd guess if the fighter in question is something being used planetside or in orbit of a planet with a fighter base, it would be a Mantis. If it's a fighter deployed by the Alliance fleet, it would be a Trident.

[Icyflare]

Question: Does anyone remember whether Liara refers to Joker by his nickname or by his given name. For some reason, I seem to remember instances of both.

[gearseffect]

Lilivati wrote...

I'm sorry that my attempt to encapsulate the characters for you wasn't helpful. It sounds like your frustration with trying to write Tali especially is at a peak, which may mean it's time to lay it to rest, at least for a little while. There's no reason why every character has to appear in every story, and there's certainly a whole host of other things Tali could be doing off-screen at any given point in time (if you wanted to include her peripherally).

From what you've written here, YOUR Shep had no relationship to speak of with Tali- so why would s/he spend a whole lot of time talking to her off-duty, or have any in-depth growth as a result of knowing her? For YOUR Shep, maybe Tali really was just that engineer in the subdeck who knows a lot about geth and doesn't say much. My general point is that you don't need to force yourself to write what you clearly don't want to write. Maybe if you put it aside for awhile an idea will come to you.

I'm glad to hear things are going better with Kasumi. She's definitely a rough one to wrap your head around.

No you were beyond helpfully with that very great summery. 

I think your thing about Kasumi really helped me find my angle on her. I've always enjoyed her extemly close bond to Keiji, to me that was one of her most endearing traits, I think her and Keiji were prefect for each other. Also Kasumi seems like the hopeless romantic type.

As for writing for Tali and it reaching a head, nope not really. Considering I am still a ways off from getting to any appearnce from her in my fics. So I've just been practice running odd dailogue things. Like I did with Grunt and hahahah I'm laughing my @ss off at some of my dialogues I came up with for Grunt and Shep. 

Also I wouldn't intentionally butcher any ME character, I'm just trying to figure out my angle for writing Tali and how the heck she fits in everything. 

Tali was there, but you know that Samantha chick? She isn't there, she was very dull to me, I'm leaving her out and Allers too.

Also my Shep is a dude, hahaha I'm a dude so I only play DudeShep. BW destroyed what would have been a good reason for me to create a FemShep which was Thane. Dumb@sses.

[MacNasty]

Icyflare wrote...

Question: Does anyone remember whether Liara refers to Joker by his nickname or by his given name. For some reason, I seem to remember instances of both.

I'm fairly sure when she comes aboard your ship in Mass Effect 2 she says Joker when she mentions him.

On a side note, sweawm I think I just found you over on waypoint  Though I don't see you post often. Or haven't seen you post at all xD

[lillitheris]

Icyflare wrote...

Question: Does anyone remember whether Liara refers to Joker by his nickname or by his given name. For some reason, I seem to remember instances of both.

Joker—probably mostly because everyone else does.

(Now, additionally, I think Liara feels that Jeff is something reserved for EDI alone, so she’d stay away from it.)

[Sweawm]

MacNasty wrote...
On a side note, sweawm I think I just found you over on waypoint  Though I don't see you post often. Or haven't seen you post at all xD

I usually hang around the Universe section, or in the Fan Fiction Gallery. Used to be a big Halo fan before Mass Effect came out, because it was a way better Si-Fi than any other game out there (Advent Rising had potential, plus the KOTOR games were awesome as well). I'm still a fan of their novels, which give way more depth to the universe and characters than the games. 

[MacNasty]

Sweawm wrote...

MacNasty wrote...
On a side note, sweawm I think I just found you over on waypoint  Though I don't see you post often. Or haven't seen you post at all xD

I usually hang around the Universe section, or in the Fan Fiction Gallery. Used to be a big Halo fan before Mass Effect came out, because it was a way better Si-Fi than any other game out there (Advent Rising had potential, plus the KOTOR games were awesome as well). I'm still a fan of their novels, which give way more depth to the universe and characters than the games. 

Same here! Though over there I go by Killershooter17... Another odd name, that's two in a row .  Sadly it's also one of the slowest sections on Waypoint...

[Seracen]

Just going to post this here, as the wiki is drawing me a blank. I am looking for the names of two characters in the ME series...

1) the Turian drill instructor with "flexibility," the one that tested Garrus' "reach"

2) the Asari who was communing with the Rachni Queen, the one you meet on Illium

I don't think these names are ever addressed, thus I am creating my own name for the Turian female, and leaving the asari unnamed, as she never plays into my story except for one or two scenes.

Also, just another random question: does ANYBODY find the Asari Consort as an interesting character worth exploring? If so, do you feel she would have anything important to add to any story? The only thing I can figure is her use for an information broker. Barring that, meh...

Furthermore: about everyone's favorite "cereal killer:" what makes for a good setup in villainy? It amuses me how appallingly pathetic Kai Leng came across as a worthy villain, unless you've read the books to have his character actually set up.

I personally think a good intro to his character would have been to have him as a crewmate in ME2, or a fellow field commander that Shepard worked with on a mission or two...perhaps someone who grated on Shep's nerves, but had his respect as a competent leader (or, dare I hope, a well-handled betrayal...there really weren't any good , emotionally wrenching, betrayals...Udina doesn't count...).

Modifié par Seracen, 13 août 2012 - 08:51 .

[MacNasty]

Seracen wrote...

Just going to post this here, as the wiki is drawing me a blank. I am looking for the names of two characters in the ME series...

1) the Turian drill instructor with "flexibility," the one that tested Garrus' "reach"

2) the Asari who was communing with the Rachni Queen, the one you meet on Illium

I don't think these names are ever addressed, thus I am creating my own name for the Turian female, and leaving the asari unnamed, as she never plays into my story except for one or two scenes.

Also, just another random question: does ANYBODY find the Asari Consort as an interesting character worth exploring? If so, do you feel she would have anything important to add to any story? The only thing I can figure is her use for an information broker. Barring that, meh...

Furthermore: about everyone's favorite "cereal killer:" what makes for a good setup in villainy? It amuses me how appallingly pathetic Kai Leng came across as a worthy villain, unless you've read the books to have his character actually set up.

I personally think a good intro to his character would have been to have him as a crewmate in ME2, or a fellow field commander that Shepard worked with on a mission or two...perhaps someone who grated on Shep's nerves, but had his respect as a competent leader (or, dare I hope, a well-handled betrayal...there really weren't any good , emotionally wrenching, betrayals...Udina doesn't count...).

I'm not so good with names, so I think I'll just skip that part:lol:.

For the Consort, I suppose it depends on what you want to do. You could explore more of the Citadel, and also aout the situation there. Go to the underbelly of the Citadel maybe, where certain areas are being neglected or at least aren't being repaired as quickly as other areas. (I haven't read your story so I don't know the exact time period, but from what you've said I'm assuming that it's Mass effect 2 at the moment).

Also, are you asking about how Kai Leng should be handled, or just a good set up for a villain?

[Drussius]

Seracen wrote...

Just going to post this here, as the wiki is drawing me a blank. I am looking for the names of two characters in the ME series...

1) the Turian drill instructor with "flexibility," the one that tested Garrus' "reach"

2) the Asari who was communing with the Rachni Queen, the one you meet on Illium

I don't think these names are ever addressed, thus I am creating my own name for the Turian female, and leaving the asari unnamed, as she never plays into my story except for one or two scenes.

*snip*

1). The turian was never named. He just says there was "this one Recon scout" and that they were at each other's throats.

2). Again, never named. When you go up to talk to her, and in the subtitles during the conversation, she is just designated as "Asari".

So I'd say you have free reign on both if you feel like naming them.

[lillitheris]

Seracen wrote...

Also, just another random question: does ANYBODY find the Asari Consort as an interesting character worth exploring? If so, do you feel she would have anything important to add to any story? The only thing I can figure is her use for an information broker. Barring that, meh...

There’s quite a bit of fic involving Sha’ira…not sure it’s the kind you’re looking for, though. I don’t really see her being an information broker, though, since that’d pretty much go directly against the confidentiality she dealt with previously.

Furthermore: about everyone's favorite "cereal killer:" what makes for a good setup in villainy? It amuses me how appallingly pathetic Kai Leng came across as a worthy villain, unless you've read the books to have his character actually set up.

The books do absolutely nothing to help his portrayal in ME3, in my opinion. It’s still the worst ever.

[Spiritwolf1]

Seracen wrote...


Furthermore: about everyone's favorite "cereal killer:" what makes for a good setup in villainy? It amuses me how appallingly pathetic Kai Leng came across as a worthy villain, unless you've read the books to have his character actually set up.

I personally think a good intro to his character would have been to have him as a crewmate in ME2, or a fellow field commander that Shepard worked with on a mission or two...perhaps someone who grated on Shep's nerves, but had his respect as a competent leader (or, dare I hope, a well-handled betrayal...there really weren't any good , emotionally wrenching, betrayals...Udina doesn't count...).

Kai Leng is one of the main atagonist in my story. I don't know if I am doing better then the game but people are reacting to him so that is good.

[Lilivati]

I think there's a lot of mystique surrounding Sha'ira. The game leaves it pretty vague as to what her organization does, and how influential (or not) it is. I know I was slightly disappointed that her "prophecy" and talisman never came into play. I wasn't expecting them to have a starring role or anything, but something small would've been cool.

That said, she's also a really minor character. So a writer could easily get away with writing her out entirely if that's what they wanted to do.

As for Kai Leng... the thing that really bugged me about him is that he was so obviously the "writers' Shepard" if that makes any sense. The protagonist of the ME games is controlled by the player and the writers had to leave a lot of room for choice. Kai Leng is their special forces bad-ass with galactic level influence, and even advanced cybernetics, that set him apart from his fellow operatives. He's the anti-Shepard, what Shepard would have been if Shepard really sold out to Cerberus. It just felt cheesy and forced. I'll admit though his anime-esque appearance didn't help things. There's nothing wrong with anime but it was out of place in this game. It made a villain who was supposed to be scary and serious feel silly. His passive-aggressive gloating letter to Shepard just made me laugh.

That's the long way of saying I feel like there is a lot of room for improvement in establishing Kai Leng as a character and as a villain. Definitely introducing him MUCH earlier in the series would go a long way.

[hot_heart]

Would you consider it cheesy if Miranda saw and spoke to a mother and daughter, among a crowd, waiting to board a shuttle to Sanctuary? I'm not really going to be emphasising it, I am just worried about parallels with 'that stuff' in ME3. And that's the last thing I want.

My thoughts right now are to have her talk to someone completely different, or learn that small bit of info from somewhere else (i.e. a sign).

[Lilivati]

On the contrary, I think that has the potential to be a really powerful scene- even if only when she looks back on it later.