9962 réponses à ce sujet

[Drussius]

Thank you kindly! Whenever you get to it is fine. It's a very small excerpt from the overall chapter. Maybe 950 words. It's the next chapter I intend to publish, but I'm still keeping chapters back as I work, so I won't publish that chapter until I finish Chapter 13 in a couple days.

Edit: Just want to be sure the ship's medic appears credible enough to the average reader

Modifié par Drussius, 16 août 2012 - 10:16 .

[noxiuniversitas1]

The ship's medic is probably more credible than some med students, from what I've read

[Drussius]

Aww. So kind of you to print that here too!

I did my best to research what I could (and I was a fanatic over the show ER back in the day), so I'm glad I represented her well. And thank you for getting to it so quickly! I didn't expect you to respond so fast!

[lillitheris]

8 hours? Unacceptable!

I’ll pivot from my question yesterday: how much do you (consciously) establish characters through other characters? Is it a part of the normal process, or do you have to decide to do it, or do you avoid it altogether?

[MrStoob]

lillitheris wrote...

8 hours? Unacceptable!

I’ll pivot from my question yesterday: how much do you (consciously) establish characters through other characters? Is it a part of the normal process, or do you have to decide to do it, or do you avoid it altogether?

Depends on the scenario for me.  If I need to introduce a character during a scene that isn't really about them, I'll do it through another and maybe expand later if needed.  Also depends for me if it's a character that's going to feature independantly much as there's not much point in getting their inner thoughts if they aren't going to be a focus IMHO.

Modifié par MrStoob, 16 août 2012 - 07:18 .

[hot_heart]

lillitheris wrote...
I’ll pivot from my question yesterday: how much do you (consciously) establish characters through other characters? Is it a part of the normal process, or do you have to decide to do it, or do you avoid it altogether?

It can be a very useful tool and I think it's something of which all writers should be conscious.

I know I spend ages on dialogue, because part of that is about how people address others. What names they use for them, how much they respect them, whether they're on an equal footing in status/intelligence, etc.

People probably pick up a lot of these things naturally when writing, but it helps to look at ways you can exploit it as well.

[lillitheris]

Interesting tangent about dialogue…I do think about those, but dialogue is still a fairly quick process. I couldn’t say if it simply comes naturally, or if it’s just a symptom of insufficient attention. Probably the latter.

[hot_heart]

Yeah, sorry if I'm a little vague or off-point. Actually working on some dialogue at the moment, which is balancing so many things at once that it's proving quite a challenge to get it just right. Does make me glad I didn't rush to publish yesterday though, it's all looking much better now.

But, while I'm on the topic...

I couldn't really comment on yours, mainly because I haven't read much (plus, I don't recall any glaring issues from what I have read), and I don't mean to sound rude about other people's work, but I do get the sense that not much thought goes into the dialogue.

Though, it's probably perfectly acceptable for most people, and I only notice it because of my experience in scriptwriting, where dialogue is more prominent. To me, it feels like neglecting to use a key tool.

[MrVakarian sr2]

http://social.biowar.../index/13693087 Short story I wrote for my girlfriend. its a Garrus/Fem Shep romance set after the end of the Reaper War. Enjoy and I know I suck at posting links xD

[Icyflare]

hot_heart wrote...

I couldn't really comment on yours, mainly because I haven't read much (plus, I don't recall any glaring issues from what I have read), and I don't mean to sound rude about other people's work, but I do get the sense that not much thought goes into the dialogue.

I get the same feeling as well sometimes. Not that I'm saying anyone in particular does it here, but at times when I'm reading a story, I don't really get a sense of the character's voice when I'm reading dialgoue but rather the author's, which is acccented in different ways. It's good to pay attention to whether you're actually giving your character a distinctive way of talking that's uniquely theirs. I think it's even more important in writing that's strictly read, because we don't have vocal inflections to help distinguish them. Damn, now I'm curious. I'll give your story a look when I have time soon.

In partial relation to lil's question, I think dialogue is a great way to not only reveal info about the person the characters are talking but also a good way to illuminate the speakers themselves. What and how we say about others can reveal just as much about ourselves or more than what others say about us. Theoretically, if I wanted a character to stay mysterious and unpredictable, I'd probably write the person only through others' perspectives and maybe in a lot of them to give a complex and fragmented layering to the characterization. If that isn't my intent, then maybe only a bit of illumination of the character through other character's dialogue, depending on if I want to fulfill or subvert the expectations I've been setting up for the readers. I don't really think about it in detail myself. I'm aware of it, but I don't consciously plan out things like that when I write.

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

Seriously what is it with people with
talent not realising how good they are?

...what? Forgive me if I've misinterpreted, but whenever I get a reply from you review-wise, I get the impression that you yourself are 1) either very humble or 2) actually don't believe that your writing's as good as others think it is. In either case, I find your statement a little ironic, given my understanding of the replies. Of course, if in the event I've misunderstood what you wrote, forget what I said about this being ironic ;P

Modifié par Icyflare, 17 août 2012 - 11:22 .

[hot_heart]

Icyflare wrote...
Damn, now I'm curious. I'll give your story a look when I have time soon.

Oh, thank you in advance. Much appreciated.

Though I must admit, this story is not a real showcase for a great deal of diverse dialogue (as of yet). It's a very contained sort of Miranda story with mysterious people, speaking vaguely if not wittily and/or threateningly, for the most part.

I was speaking in broad terms, with my past scripts in mind. And, actually, I think where it all clicked for me was actually watching The Wire.

I think there's a lot to be learnt from that show but, in the case of dialogue, there are great stretches of it, where you're not entirely sure what is occurring because there's a real air of authenticity in it, from the street talk to the police slang/terminology, that just keeps you intrigued. And then there'll be that glorious moment a bit later on, when it all clicks and makes sense.

Plus, it actually makes use of epigraphs at the start of each episode, nearly always taken from dialogue you're yet to hear. Most famous among them, when referring to a wiretap case, "All the pieces matter." Goddamn, I love that show. It's like a visual version of The Great American Novel.

/watchtheshow
/endsidetrack

[Icyflare]

I thought The Dark Knight Rises had excellent writing in terms of dialogue. The little speeches here and there were powerful and beautifully delivered. I especially liked Bane's lines. So dangerously cunning and yet so posh. Then again, I'm just a simple movie-goer, so my standards may be a bit lower than say....an actual screenwriter

[hot_heart]

Yeah, the Nolan films are generally very good in terms of writing. I felt TDKR was lacking overall, compared to the others, but I can't recall any of the dialogue bothering me. Except maybe the big exposition dump from a certain character during the finale, and how they delivered the 'real name' thing during the very end.

Some of the Joker stuff in TDK is just sublime.

I love the dialogue in films like North by Northwest, The Big Sleep and Chinatown. Some real wit and wordplay, and all fantastic films.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Anyone else want to give some thoughts on my new chapter?

http://www.fanfictio...t_3_Perspective

[lillitheris]

There’s also a flipside to the dialogue…going too fancy/witty/etc. Of course, the reader is probably quite a bit less likely to complain about dialogue being too good, but I do sometimes notice it in books. People don’t really talk that cleverly, or well, as a rule…

(And then there are the one-liner discussions that I absolutely hate.)

((Though I still love Gilmore Girls…))

[hot_heart]

lillitheris wrote...
People don’t really talk that cleverly, or well, as a rule…

Even when it's not being witty, dialogue is never 'realistic'. People just aren't that coherent; they trail off, repeat phrases, leave pauses, mishear things. Obviously, you can try and capture some of that, but it's never going to sound exactly like a real conversation. If you're doing it right, anyway.

[Drussius]

hot_heart wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
People don’t really talk that cleverly, or well, as a rule…

Even when it's not being witty, dialogue is never 'realistic'. People just aren't that coherent; they trail off, repeat phrases, leave pauses, mishear things. Obviously, you can try and capture some of that, but it's never going to sound exactly like a real conversation. If you're doing it right, anyway.

Is that something like "If it's all civilized, you're not doing it right."?

[lillitheris]

hot_heart wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
People don’t really talk that cleverly, or well, as a rule…

Even when it's not being witty, dialogue is never 'realistic'. People just aren't that coherent; they trail off, repeat phrases, leave pauses, mishear things. Obviously, you can try and capture some of that, but it's never going to sound exactly like a real conversation. If you're doing it right, anyway.

Finding the balance is the tricky part, I suppose.

James Vega is probably a good one from ME…he’s not dumb by any means (I don’t think, at least) but at the same time his vocabulary isn’t the greatest, he has a particular way of thinking and verbalizing, and he’s maybe not familiar with the finer points of carrying conversations.

[lillitheris]

Drussius wrote...

hot_heart wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
People don’t really talk that cleverly, or well, as a rule…

Even when it's not being witty, dialogue is never 'realistic'. People just aren't that coherent; they trail off, repeat phrases, leave pauses, mishear things. Obviously, you can try and capture some of that, but it's never going to sound exactly like a real conversation. If you're doing it right, anyway.

Is that something like "If it's all civilized, you're not doing it right."?

Actually, I think that’s the opposite

[Drussius]

Oh sure. Poke holes in my random parallel! It was just the first thing that popped into mind with the "If you're doing it right" part at the end of the post is all...

[hot_heart]

Drussius wrote...
Is that something like "If it's all civilized, you're not doing it right."?

Hehe. I guess you could look at it like that...

Anyway, I do apologise to everyone if I sounds like I'm harping on sometimes. I'm just glad I actually have people with whom I can discuss writing. I just don't get that anywhere else...

[Drussius]

^ Not at all. That's why I love this thread. Dialogue is just an area that I feel there's a lot of subjectivity to. Everyone talks differently, so everyone reads/writes dialogue a little differently. Some dialogue in books or fanfics seems a little heavy-handed to me. Some reads very naturally to me, but other people say it seems forced. And some seems a bit chaotic for me, but other people seem fine with the same passages. I think your preferences for how you converse personally will play into how you relate to dialogue in a story. At least they do for me.

[hot_heart]

I'd be interested to hear how everyone deals with the shields and biotic stuff. As in, gameplay-wise, biotic powers don't affect a target if they still have shields/barriers.

Do you ignore it because it is just a gameplay thing or do you like to think there's a plausible explanation for why that might be the case?

On top of that, I need to figure out the course of events with Miranda at Sanctuary. Eek.

[lillitheris]

There’s absolutely no reason why biotics wouldn’t work with shields active. Barrier you could conceivably try to explain as negating the me fields (but then they’d be specifically tuned for biotics resistance). Both would help with direct effects by e.g. deflecting the force in a Push, but wouldn’t help getting Lifted.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

hot_heart wrote...

I'd be interested to hear how everyone deals with the shields and biotic stuff. As in, gameplay-wise, biotic powers don't affect a target if they still have shields/barriers.

Do you ignore it because it is just a gameplay thing or do you like to think there's a plausible explanation for why that might be the case?

On top of that, I need to figure out the course of events with Miranda at Sanctuary. Eek.

Gamewise, shucks, I just shoot and fire off whenever the power is available.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 17 août 2012 - 02:12 .