9962 réponses à ce sujet

[Drussius]

Hmm. I have a question I am wrestling with, but I'm hesitant to say anything here for risk of spoiling things for anyone who may be following my story... So to keep things extremely vague, has anyone ever considered changing a character's background elements that haven't been introduced yet for fear that it will spoil the good perception readers have of certain traits of that character? I had something that I planned to reveal for the Chapter I just finished writing, but in rereading it, I find myself thinking "...but what if this cheapens this character's accomplishments. Readers might say 'eh... not so impressive anymore with their past'."

[lillitheris]

Being equally vague, I’d say that the character is the character. If that’s what she or he has done, so be it. I’m certain that you still have this well in-character, so I don’t see a problem with it.

[Drussius]

The problem I'm having in this case is that this reveal is something I haven't really even alluded to yet. And I really don't want to cheapen the achievements of the character in question. On one hand, I always liked the dynamic that trait X added to the character. On the other, I don't want upcoming events A, B, and C to go from "it's awesome that they pulled that off" to "eh. Given trait X, not surprising."

As a result, I find myself wondering if I should make some changes. It's a tough decision, especially since changes to things that have never been mentioned are easy to do... it's not like I'd be retconning things that have been in my story all along.



Edit: On the reverse side of the coin, Trait X is probably the last thing anyone would expect right now, and might seem to come out of left field. So there's that too.

Modifié par Drussius, 13 septembre 2012 - 09:02 .

[AustereLemur799]

@ Drussius
 
I suppose certain personality traits can make a person predisposed to certain things. But attributing the outcome of an event to a person’s traits seems a bit like a stereotypical judgement. If someone burgled my house I wouldn’t say ‘it’s no surprise given that they’ve got a drug habit’. It’s often a combination of factors – upbringing, tragedies that happened to them, criminal record, repeated offences, treatment by others. Again, this is stereotypical. The burglar could have a university degree and committed no previous criminal offence in their life. What, then, drove them to burgle my house? I don’t know. People are complex.

If you’re talking about altering a character’s established traits/background from the game, I wouldn’t worry. This is fiction and you’re free to do whatever you want. It's your story - no one else's. 

If you’re worried that personality changes might come out of the blue, then perhaps you could work some kind of explanation into your writing in the form of a scene or a flashback or something (depends on the context).

If I haven’t made any sense whatsoever, I apologise. Just ignore me.

[Drussius]

No, I get what you're saying, and always appreciate additional viewpoints. And beleive me, I hate stereotypes. In fact, I go out of my way to avoid them, as readers of my story have no doubt noticed. I have an asari with almost no biotic skill, a quarian who is not a tech expert but a pilot instead, stuff like that.

But to put it in terms of a Spacer Shepard, is it possible that some people might look at Shepard's accomplishments and say "Well, his/her mother is career Alliance. He/she grew up with military discipline as part of daily life. Of course he/she would excel in military matters..." It's sort of along those lines. Although in the case of my story the character in question is actually nothing like what might be expected (sort of like if the Shepard in the above example was a slacker and thief instead of Military), I don't want the character's past to somehow cheapen future victories.

I think I may just leave it as written and hope it doesn't have the effect I fear it might, but it's the first time I've found myself really questioning such a long-planned element of a character.

[hot_heart]

Not sure exactly what the situation is but, as long as it's consistent/in-character, I like new information that makes me reassess a character.

[AustereLemur799]

@ Drussius

Make it have the effect you want - not what you fear.

I don't know if I believe in it myself, but there is a saying: 'the future is what you make it'. The past does not have to govern what may or may not happen in a person's future. Also, people grow and change all the time. Just because you start off on the straight and narrow doesn't mean you'll always be that way, or vice versa.
I'm writing a spacer shep too, and at times she feels rather stifled and pressured by her military background. The fact is; you can interpret backgrounds any number of ways - a spacer shep can be disciplined and proffessional, or feel under pressure to measure up to expectations, or can completely rebel. People react to things in so many different ways.

Personally I focus on characterisation a lot in my stories - way more than the action events. I really feel for you for second-guessing yourself. Fortunately I haven't found myself in a situation like that yet. But if this is about a character who is a main or is really important to you, then it is imperative you get it right for you (don't worry about your readers at this point).

Sorry; I know how advice can be limited. This story and these characters are your inventions - your baby. No one else can tell you how to shape them. I really hope you work it out - I have the utmost confidence in you.  

Modifié par AustereLemur799, 13 septembre 2012 - 10:44 .

[AustereLemur799]

Also, I quite like the idea of an asari with very little biotic talent and a quarian without tech skills. It's an interesting idea. They're like underdogs that still find other ways to shine.

I know a lot of people focus on Shepard coming from difficult backgrounds like Mindoir and surviving Akuze - therefore they are 'damaged' and must overcome obstacles to become the hero. It makes a nice, refreshing change to have other characters go from zero to hero.

[Spiritwolf1]

Sometime something in the past might not have been in character for a character, but it might have been part of the big picture in which shapened the character. If that makes any sense.

This thing, does it shape what the character is in your story, does it have meaning to the character in some way. If it added growth to the character then it might not be cheapening but character building.

[AustereLemur799]

What Spiritwolf says. I usually fail epicly when trying to express myself - others say it much better.

Adding complexity to characters can only be a good thing - rather that than having them as inanimate lemons.

[lillitheris]

Drussius wrote...

I don't want the character's past to somehow cheapen future victories.

I just don’t see how this would automatically happen. If you’re really concerned about this cheapening, I—with absolutely no information about the situation—would tend to assume that it signifies that your problem is actually that the character shouldn’t be able to do whatever it is without this background or trait.

Like, for the sake of the argument, if your character would suddenly be able to fly a plane or defuse a bomb completely without any previous training, and you played it off as some kind of natural aptitude rather than blind luck. The problem in that isn’t that the training would cheapen the success—it’s that there probably shouldn’t be success without it.

If the trait helps the character do X, then it does. If it doesn’t, then it doesn’t.

Modifié par lillitheris, 13 septembre 2012 - 10:59 .

[Drussius]

It is definitely character building. It's not what it does to the character's past or how it fits into the character that I worry about. This certain trait was the basis for the character's whole personality. My worries are more about how it will cause readers to asses future events, that's all. Can't really get much more into it without giving things away, but when upcoming events unfold, I don't want readers to give less credit to the character just because they have one certain thing going for them in their background.

Edit: Actually, lill, that's a good point. I may be worrying excessively about nothing. I hadn't really put it into a skill-based context before. Of course, without training defusing a bomb should be impossible. But maybe this is a situation where my fears don't really apply at all. It's something anyone could accomplish... so I suppose there might be no reason why it should be less impressive for this character versus any others.

Modifié par Drussius, 13 septembre 2012 - 11:03 .

[AustereLemur799]

I just realised that using Cerberus as a plot device to fix any number of problems actually works. Credit to Bioware for that hot tip.

No, in all seriousness... I actually want to slam my face against a desk. Who knew that the whole exposing Saren as a traitor on the Citadel before the whole Spectre induction thing could be so complicated? I should've predicted this from my own experience playing ME1 where I spend three hours running around the Citadel at the beginning making sure I'd found all the dialogues in all the correct order - visit Chora's Den to see Wrex in passing, then speak with Harkin, then go to Barla Von and say that you saw Wrex. Then recruit Wrex at C-Sec and hear about the quarian. Then go to Dr Michel's clinic to recruit Garrus.

Yes, it is one big giant headache. I hate my story right about now.

Modifié par AustereLemur799, 13 septembre 2012 - 11:46 .

[Drussius]

^ I never once did it in the proper order. Didn't even realize you could see Wrex in Chora's Den until my last playthrough, since I always ran into him at C-Sec before that.

[AustereLemur799]

Tell me about it. I just have a touch of OCD when it comes to things like that. If I messed up the order, I would have to reload my save.

EDIT: never mind.

Modifié par AustereLemur799, 13 septembre 2012 - 12:17 .

[fluffywalrus]

Spiritwolf1 wrote...

Like the last, last chapter, your
writing that now.... Cries, what am I going to do without looking
forward to your chapters.

lillitheris wrote...

As fluffy’s agent, I can reveal that we are in talks about a ME1 rendition. Stay tuned, the casting is about to start.

I'm pleased to announce that Blasto is playing the part of every character

But yeah, I'm doing an ME1 arc next. Currently polishing potential errors and structuring in my last chapter of Flotsam, and working on the first chapter of my next one I'll release both at the same time, so whenever they're done...

Drussius wrote...

It is definitely character building.
It's not what it does to the character's past or how it fits into the
character that I worry about. This certain trait was the basis for the
character's whole personality. My worries are more about how it will
cause readers to asses future events, that's all. Can't really get much
more into it without giving things away, but when upcoming events
unfold, I don't want readers to give less credit to the character just
because they have one certain thing going for them in their background.

Edit: Actually,
lill, that's a good point. I may be worrying excessively about nothing.
I hadn't really put it into a skill-based context before. Of course,
without training defusing a bomb should be impossible. But maybe this is
a situation where my fears don't really apply at all. It's something
anyone could accomplish... so I suppose there might be no reason
why it should be less impressive for this character versus any
others.

I wouldn't be too worried. I think I'm too attached to the characters to feel any worse about them. I mean, my head is floating in potential worst case scenarios right now and they're not really making me feel any different, so...
I wouldn't worry too much.

[Drussius]

Thank you Fluffy! I'm coming up on several small details in the story that I've been stressing, so I suppose I am just a little stressed out on the little things. This from the guy whose whole motto over the past eleven years has been "Don't worry about the little things."

[Obsidian Gryphon]

fluffywalrus wrote...

I'm pleased to announce that Blasto is playing the part of every character

But yeah, I'm doing an ME1 arc next. Currently polishing potential errors and structuring in my last chapter of Flotsam, and working on the first chapter of my next one I'll release both at the same time, so whenever they're done...

Hey wait. Is the ME1 arc another story with the same chars from Flotsam or a continuation?   And yes, I'm definitely looking forward to it.  ... can you do something with Viola, kick her butt ...   she needs it.  

[Patchwork]

@Drussius If you're worried that your readers are going to dismiss this character's accomplishments after the revelation why not deal with it head on?

Have someone innocently or not question the character's previous success causing the character some self doubt before realising it doesn't matter.

[BrysonC]

How do you guys force yourself to write even when your interest in a story is waning? I am determined to finish, but it's been like pulling teeth recently.

[Drussius]

BrysonC wrote...

How do you guys force yourself to write even when your interest in a story is waning? I am determined to finish, but it's been like pulling teeth recently.

Forcing yourself to write tends to be counterproductive. At least for me. Once it turns into a chore, my creativity plummets. Honestly, when I hit that point in a story, that's usually when I spend a few days doing things completely unrelated to writing. Take my kids out somewhere for the day, play some video games I haven't touched in a while, do some of the repairs I've been putting off, etc.

Then, when an inkling of desire to write returns, I jump back into it before the urge dissipates. It might not work for everyone, but this is what works for me. As I said, once I feel like I'm forcing myself to write, the quality takes a hit, the creativity vanishes, and it loses the appeal. If it means taking a week off before you're genuinely excited to write again, then so be it. Unless you have a professional deadline, forcing yourself seems counterproductive.

[lillitheris]

Could be a temporary slump—or you can try asking yourself precisely why you’re tiring? Is there an aspect in particular?

[fluffywalrus]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

fluffywalrus wrote...

I'm pleased to announce that Blasto is playing the part of every character

But yeah, I'm doing an ME1 arc next. Currently polishing potential errors and structuring in my last chapter of Flotsam, and working on the first chapter of my next one I'll release both at the same time, so whenever they're done...

Hey wait. Is the ME1 arc another story with the same chars from Flotsam or a continuation?   And yes, I'm definitely looking forward to it.  ... can you do something with Viola, kick her butt ...   she needs it.  

It's definitely my Shep from Flotsam, just during the Mass Effect timeline. I'm skipping the military career segment because I don't feel that there's enough happening in there to really change my character considerably from where she is now, and what changes there WOULD be are more suitable to be explored during the ME arc.

You'll see the odd cameo from characters in Flotsam, too

As for Viola...I'll try and think of something. Can't promise that it'll be satisfying for everyone, but...well, there will be something.

BrysonC wrote...

How do you guys force yourself to write
even when your interest in a story is waning? I am determined to finish,
but it's been like pulling teeth recently.

I would step back from your project for a bit and try to figure out why your interest is waning. Even if you're determined to finish it, if your heart's not in it, it's best to step back and figure out why.

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 13 septembre 2012 - 02:31 .

[lillitheris]

Blasto’s Puppet Theater.

[fluffywalrus]

lillitheris wrote...

Blasto’s Puppet Theater.

I might in fact have to use that in my next fic.
May I?