9960 réponses à ce sujet

[Icyflare]

MrStoob wrote...

The ability to turn on and off your morality/empathy like a switch is one of the signs of a psychopath.

Actually, that's not correct. Psychopaths don't turn off their empathy. They have little to no empathy in the first place. They can pretend to care about something that matters to others, but many of them are unable to keep up the pretense for long.

I don't actually think you can turn off a morality system. The more plausible action would be that they switch external values relatively quickly, but so do a lot of politicians. Not necessarily all of them are psychopaths, although, some may be.

How is this relevant to writing Shepard? Well, if you play Shepard inconsistently between Renegade and Paragon options, they can seem unstable but not technically psychopathic.

[lillitheris]

Icyflare wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

The ability to turn on and off your morality/empathy like a switch is one of the signs of a psychopath.

Actually, that's not correct. Psychopaths don't turn off their empathy. They have little to no empathy in the first place. They can pretend to care about something that matters to others, but many of them are unable to keep up the pretense for long.

Unfortunately, many can keep it up. But yes, you’re correct. A true psychopath only mimics the emotions others display — generally positive, that is. Many are fully capable of the baser, negative emotions themselves.

How is this relevant to writing Shepard? Well, if you play Shepard inconsistently between Renegade and Paragon options, they can seem unstable but not technically psychopathic.

I’d simply frame it — avoiding the R and P words — that if your Shepard for example flips between killing people for the hell of it and going out their way to save others, there should be a good in-character reason for it.

[gearseffect]

Icyflare wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

The ability to turn on and off your morality/empathy like a switch is one of the signs of a psychopath.

Actually, that's not correct. Psychopaths don't turn off their empathy. They have little to no empathy in the first place. They can pretend to care about something that matters to others, but many of them are unable to keep up the pretense for long.

I don't actually think you can turn off a morality system. The more plausible action would be that they switch external values relatively quickly, but so do a lot of politicians. Not necessarily all of them are psychopaths, although, some may be.

How is this relevant to writing Shepard? Well, if you play Shepard inconsistently between Renegade and Paragon options, they can seem unstable but not technically psychopathic.

Psychopath
Psyciopath
Morinth alll sorts of messed up evil, serial killer, addict, mixed with some serial raping too.

Yep she was one twisted monster. For those who wonder why I''d say rapist, well rape is about the control power domination of the victom, it gives a high to the rapist. Aslo at times it mixes with violence playing into it,

Ahh Morinth you even had that power called dominate all sorts of evil in you.

Samara ahh my love I'd never let you die never chose you over Morinth, even with my total jack@ss Shep made for the sole purpose of me attempting to get an ending where Shep dooms the galaxy. Was saddened to see that Shep will never see it into ME3, I was sort of looking forward to Samara killing him

Umm What was that oh yes the messed up psychopathic Shep or something I forgot now.

[noxiuniversitas1]

MrStoob wrote...

The ability to turn on and off your morality/empathy like a switch is one of the signs of a psychopath.

I'd have to disagree with that. One of the defining characteristics of the psychopathic "personality disorder" is a *complete* lack of empathy for others. Often, they appear to have a "switch" because they can be extremely charming, lulling others into a false sense of security.

The term "psychopath" is almost never used in clinical psychiatry anymore. Partly because of the confusion with the term "psychosis" and partly because it encompasses a spectrum of behaviours and thought processes which have since been delineated. Most of the traditional "psychopaths" in medium- to maximum- security mental hospitals actually have one or more diagnoses of antisocial PD, some form of psychosis (typically schizophrenia or mania) +/- a mood/anxiety disorder.

[MrStoob]

Don't you hate it when...

You think you've got a great idea and the words are flowing from your fingers,  Pages of text spilling down the screen.  Then you read it.  And decide it doesn't work and you hate it.  Then waste time trying to 'fix' it. lol
I think I wrote over 4000 words yesterday, and I'm not going to use any of it.  

A quick side-step of story this morning and I've written something I like.  Go figure eh?

On Rene/Para/Psycho debate: I probably didn't express myself well and did mean 'appear to be able to...' rather than they can.  I've met many a 'corporate psychopath' in my time in that environment.  Or 'psychopaths who don't want to kill anyone' as I labelled them lol.

Modifié par MrStoob, 08 juin 2012 - 12:30 .

[noxiuniversitas1]

MrStoob wrote...

On Rene/Para/Psycho debate: I probably didn't express myself well and did mean 'appear to be able to...' rather than they can.  I've met many a 'corporate psychopath' in my time in that environment.  Or 'psychopaths who don't want to kill anyone' as I labelled them lol.

The WHO goes one step further, in its attempt to medicalise the world, lol. classic "corporate psychopaths" are now labelled has having elements of anankastic and narcissistic personality disorders

[Icyflare]

MrStoob wrote...

Don't you hate it when...

You think you've got a great idea and the words are flowing from your fingers,  Pages of text spilling down the screen.  Then you read it.  And decide it doesn't work and you hate it.  Then waste time trying to 'fix' it. lol
I think I wrote over 4000 words yesterday, and I'm not going to use any of it.  

A quick side-step of story this morning and I've written something I like.  Go figure eh?

4000 words, ouch. I hope you at least got something out of that.

I think it's worse when you write scenes that you do like where the writing's solid, the passage flows well, the dialogue is sharp and witty, the emotions vibrant and clear, and you have to toss it out because it doesn't fit with your narrative or tone.

I've gotten rid of dozens of scenes that I like because they don't fit the narrative. In this case, it would probably be due to poor planning or just the effect of constant revising. However, a good rule of thumb to follow is don't add anything you don't need. A horrible yet apt analogy would be if your work is like your baby, and every extra passage is an extra arm. Don't add extra arms to your baby that you'll have to cut off later to make it perfect.

Incidentally, does rewriting a passage count as writing or editing? I heard that it's good to do equal amounts of both in a story.

[lillitheris]

“Perfection is attained, not when no more can be added, but when no more can be removed.”

—Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

…

Rewriting is always editing if you do it after the fact… I often rewrite as I’m writing, of course, but also do a lot of copyediting after a paragraph or chapter is complete.

Modifié par lillitheris, 08 juin 2012 - 08:22 .

[fluffywalrus]

lillitheris wrote...

“Perfection is attained, not when no more can be added, but when no more can be removed.”

—Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

…

Rewriting is always editing if you do it after the fact… I often rewrite as I’m writing, of course, but also do a lot of copyediting after a paragraph or chapter is complete.

I barely edit mine. After I finish 3 or 4 sections,I read it out loud and fix whatever reads poorly, but aside from that I don't rewrite/revise/etc.

There are things in my first chapter that I would change if I had to rewrite it again, but I won't. I like to see what progress I've made from chapter to chapter.

[noxiuniversitas1]

fluffywalrus wrote...


I barely edit mine. After I finish 3 or 4 sections,I read it out loud and fix whatever reads poorly, but aside from that I don't rewrite/revise/etc.

There are things in my first chapter that I would change if I had to rewrite it again, but I won't. I like to see what progress I've made from chapter to chapter.

Same here... and it probably shows

[lillitheris]

fluffywalrus wrote...

There are things in my first chapter that I would change if I had to rewrite it again, but I won't. I like to see what progress I've made from chapter to chapter.

Writers need to learn about version control :happy:

I will always try to improve the chapters to make the ‘finished product’ as good as possible. I use version control to store each published version individually…so if I want to see what the first published version of Chapter 1 looked like, I can just recall it.

[Sialater]

I generally prefer to burn the first drafts and pretend they never existed.

[Yoshiyuki Ly]

For everyone posting M-Rated fics on fanfiction.net, be aware that the mods are purging stories with sexual content in them. There's a big uproar about it and a petition floating around to authors via PMs. Just a heads-up.

[noxiuniversitas1]

Yeah cheers for that - got the same PM, I think. Also believe it's not just sexual content, but also the more adult themes of violence, psychologically disturbing imagery etc. FYI for those who haven't seen it, here it is (and thanks fluffywalrus for your insightful comments ):

"Although, we haven't met or have been formally introduced. I don't know if you have heard or not, but I just want to pm you and let know that there is going to be a purge from Fanfiction[.]net where they will start deleting all fanfiction that contains any content of text that has any possible scenes of sexual situations, strong language, or violence, which includes lemons or anything related to the things listed above. I wanted to pm you and let you know on this since your fanfic may have fallen under the listed categories. FFN will also delete any hint of it regardless if it is under 18 or rated-T. If it is rated M, they will assume that there is sexual situations, violence, or profanity will delete it even if there is some or only a few parts of it.

Here is the link to discussion about in the forums as well as the petition that is now over 22,000 signatures which needs to keep going in order for it to be valid to protest against FFN's enforcement on their proposal which will take place on their site tomorrow. I putted brackets around the abbreviation marks since the PM cuts out the first half of the link. So you have to remove them in order to view it before you can copy and paste the link in the html drop box:

-Forum Page-

forum[.]fanfiction[.]net/topic/2872/63794724/1/

-Petition-

www[.]change[.]org/petitions/fanfiction-net-stop-the-destruction-of-fanfiction-net

-Also feel free to contact the Admins to voice your concerns-

support (at) fanfiction . com

Also, please spread this news to anyone you know on this site who is has fanfiction or has them under the categories listed above which are eligable to be wiped off. As this will also affect the freedom or speech and creativity of the writers themselves with the internet censorship which is invalid to the site's purpose of letting users rate their fanfiction for M or R rather than using Age Restrictive Filters. It would help boost the speed on prevent FFN taking action.

Thank you for your time for reading this to your notice."

Modifié par noxiuniversitas1, 08 juin 2012 - 11:48 .

[fluffywalrus]

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

Yeah cheers for that - got the same PM, I think. Also believe it's not just sexual content, but also the more adult themes of violence, psychologically disturbing imagery etc. FYI for those who haven't seen it, here it is (and thanks fluffywalrus for your insightful comments ):

"Although, we haven't met or have been formally introduced. I don't know if you have heard or not, but I just want to pm you and let know that there is going to be a purge from Fanfiction[.]net where they will start deleting all fanfiction that contains any content of text that has any possible scenes of sexual situations, strong language, or violence, which includes lemons or anything related to the things listed above. I wanted to pm you and let you know on this since your fanfic may have fallen under the listed categories. FFN will also delete any hint of it regardless if it is under 18 or rated-T. If it is rated M, they will assume that there is sexual situations, violence, or profanity will delete it even if there is some or only a few parts of it.

Here is the link to discussion about in the forums as well as the petition that is now over 22,000 signatures which needs to keep going in order for it to be valid to protest against FFN's enforcement on their proposal which will take place on their site tomorrow. I putted brackets around the abbreviation marks since the PM cuts out the first half of the link. So you have to remove them in order to view it before you can copy and paste the link in the html drop box:

-Forum Page-

forum[.]fanfiction[.]net/topic/2872/63794724/1/

-Petition-

www[.]change[.]org/petitions/fanfiction-net-stop-the-destruction-of-fanfiction-net

-Also feel free to contact the Admins to voice your concerns-

support (at) fanfiction . com

Also, please spread this news to anyone you know on this site who is has fanfiction or has them under the categories listed above which are eligable to be wiped off. As this will also affect the freedom or speech and creativity of the writers themselves with the internet censorship which is invalid to the site's purpose of letting users rate their fanfiction for M or R rather than using Age Restrictive Filters. It would help boost the speed on prevent FFN taking action.

Thank you for your time for reading this to your notice."

I won't lie, I got that PM and kind of laughed at it. I'll copypasta my take on it from before

Just letting you know, from what I've heard, this "purge" is not a clean sweep.



There is a group called Critics United that reports fics against the
TOS. But there aren't many of them, but they send you a warning via
PM(before reporting) to let you know your story's in violation, and what
to change if you don't want to be reported by them.



The admins, from what I understand, will react to reports and will
delete if they feel it's appropriate. But they AFAIK don't seek out
stories to "purge".



The admins, from what I can tell, will not immediately eradicate all M
rated fics. I haven't seen anything but sensationalist speculation list
that as a possibility. Once, they removed the MA rated stories, and they seem
pleased enough with their current rating system. MA won't be included
again, ever, but it also doesn't seem as if M will be removed either.



Not only would deleting all M-rated fics result in the loss of much of
their userbase(meaning less ad revenue and whatnot), it would be bad PR
for the site. People would leave in droves and spread the word. They
aren't willing to lose what could be 1/4 of their userbase over
something like a few fics that break the rules. They don't have some magical filtration system that picks out all TOS-infringing content, and they wouldn't mass purge all M rated stories.



They'll rely on the reporting system to do the work for them. Yes,
there's a group that's reporting and getting stories deleted by proxy,
but they're small, and this has happened before numerous times. THe admins are likely just catching up to backlogs, and this group is reporting more stories than normal.



Yeah, your story might get targeted, but it probably won't. Most focus
seems to be on Naruto and other anime-based fics, as well as Harry
Potter.

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 09 juin 2012 - 12:09 .

[lillitheris]

I’ve got mine backed up, versions and all, plus my little scripts also scrape my stats and private messages…

So if something comes to pass, or I feel they go overboard killing stuff off, I’m packed up and ready to go!

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Speaking for myself, I usually do the following for my larger stories, i.e. Ubi Venenum, Ibi Evaqua.

-Plan out the chapters as to what happens. Insert and delete chapters as neccesary.

-Write first chapter, then reread chapter.

-Write next chapter, reread previous chapters to check for continuity errors, spelling, grammar, etc.

-Repeat until done.

[gearseffect]

About the purge and critics united, I found out about that on Tuesday or Wednesday I think, sorry I didn't even share that with you all, I gotta be one sh!tty dick to ya all now right?

Anyway I got my stuff backed up, or what little I got up there backed up. I mean I save documents on all sorts of things included deleted content from my Fics.

But yeah, thanks for the heads up and I also signed the petition, I also contacted a few others about this, letting them know about it so they can save their work if they haven't yet.

I also went above and beyond in a few cases, or some might call me a thief I don't know, I made sure I backed up their work because they are not as active anymore and I let them know I'd done that too.

Anyway about revisions well I'm in the process of adding back much of the deleted content that was cut because I put a limit on myself. Dumbest thing ever,

Given I'm going through and re-working my fics and re adding the cut content I noticed that the most of the content I cut was all from breaking points.

Other than Chapter 4 of Awakening, I really didn't cut much from it. I figure it's do to my being ever so careful with Samara I'm more slow and careful with writing Awakening then I am with Breaking Points.

Fittingly Chapter 4 of Awakening had so god dang much content cut that I started to question if I made a mistake by cutting and condensing down all of that chapter. It was the first time I really had begun to think limiting myself was a dumb idea. That's were this whole thing really started was after chapter 4 of Awakening.

[lillitheris]

In software, the phrase ‘premature optimization’ is used often (and sadly committed even more frequently) 

As far as writing goes, it seems that trying to avoid the same is a sensible policy…I try not edit things or cut stuff out until I see the whole picture, and iteratively improve on the previously created things.

[Drussius]

I am writing for two reasons. First, to say that I think this thread is a wonderful idea and I'm glad to see so many writers here to support one another with ideas and discussion. Kudos to the OP and to everyone who has been here fostering discussion and co-operation.

Second, I was wondering what the general sentiment is toward original content set in the Mass Effect universe. I am an aspiring writer and was considering giving a ME fanfic a go since I love the various races, characters, and the general setting so very much. However, I find that in my attempts at writing other fanfics (never published... I have a fear of harsh criticism), I have difficulty doing justice to well-known and beloved characters simply because they are not my brainchild and thus I get bogged down in overanalyzing everything I have them doing in each scene... "Does that make sense? Would character X do this? Would they be more likely to do something else? Would fans of the series disapprove of this action?" etc...

Any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated. I used to read fanfiction obsessively some number of years back, but haven't read much in the last five years and I don't know what the general fan opinion is on some of the issues, such as original characters and content.

[fluffywalrus]

Drussius wrote...

I am writing for two reasons. First, to say that I think this thread is a wonderful idea and I'm glad to see so many writers here to support one another with ideas and discussion. Kudos to the OP and to everyone who has been here fostering discussion and co-operation.

Second, I was wondering what the general sentiment is toward original content set in the Mass Effect universe. I am an aspiring writer and was considering giving a ME fanfic a go since I love the various races, characters, and the general setting so very much. However, I find that in my attempts at writing other fanfics (never published... I have a fear of harsh criticism), I have difficulty doing justice to well-known and beloved characters simply because they are not my brainchild and thus I get bogged down in overanalyzing everything I have them doing in each scene... "Does that make sense? Would character X do this? Would they be more likely to do something else? Would fans of the series disapprove of this action?" etc...

Any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated. I used to read fanfiction obsessively some number of years back, but haven't read much in the last five years and I don't know what the general fan opinion is on some of the issues, such as original characters and content.

Welcome to the thread! Always happy to see new faces

As for Original Content, I personally am all for it so long as it's believable.  I mean, I'd be a hypocrite if I said I hated it...my fic is so far pretty much all OC (my shep's origin story), Just be tasteful. I can understand the internal anguish of milling over your work, worried it won't stand up to scrutiny. However, you can't let yourself be paralyzed by that. 
This thread is useful for exactly that kind of scenario. If you're uncomfortable with how you've portrayed your character, pass it by us. I mean, we're no more experts than you, but generally a second pair of eyes is useful, it adds some perspective. I understand the urge to overanalyze, it's something I constantly have to hold myself in check for, but if you want to write...write.

Original content is usually deemed fine, so long as it has solid grounding in the source material. Original characters are often best suited for support roles, but some authors have had success with them as major or main characters(rare, though). Much like erotic scenes in fanfics, if you don't feel you can do it justice, don't go all the way. Dial it back and work yourself into a state where you feel you can pull of original characters of more importance.
Using the "long-game" of building/establishing your original content within the main setting is usually a good idea too, but it takes a lot of patience and a lot of writing.

For instance, PMC's "A Thessian's Whisper" / "The Shepherdess & the Questing Beast" build upon both Shepard's childhood and life through to midway in ME1, and Liara's childhood and life through to the same point. Lots of original content, original characters, lore twists, and a largely fabricated Asari culture.

But it works, because it takes the time to get the reader used to it, and uses established characters to strengthen the original content. I find that's the most important thing about adding your own stuff and expanding on the lore...you need a solid basis, something familiar, in order to get the reader to care. PMC does this with Shepard and Liara, Shiala, Benezia, and other familiar characters. Those fics are probably the most in-depth ones I've read in regard to the immense details expanded upon.

So it's certainly possible, and in general, the mass Effect fanfic readership isn't that critical, and is quite willing to help. We don't bite (not when we can use space magic )

So yeah. If you want to write, but your apprehension is holding you back, try to push past that.
Just give it a shot.

[MrStoob]

I got the pm about the purge last night. Wasn't sure what to make of it after it had already been discussed here. The pm suggests a blind blanket deletion of anything with swearing in it, regardless of category. Seemed a bit reactionary to me.

In my Aria section she swears. It's what she does. Are they saying that that story will be deleted? Also, I have used words like 'bum' and 'bossom' a in non-sexual context, which they also suggest will be purged?

Is there anything solid regarding all this?

[noxiuniversitas1]

MrStoob wrote...

I got the pm about the purge last night. Wasn't sure what to make of it after it had already been discussed here. The pm suggests a blind blanket deletion of anything with swearing in it, regardless of category. Seemed a bit reactionary to me.

In my Aria section she swears. It's what she does. Are they saying that that story will be deleted? Also, I have used words like 'bum' and 'bossom' a in non-sexual context, which they also suggest will be purged?

Is there anything solid regarding all this?

Not sure how it all came about (CU, I've heard?), but on the back of getting that PM yesterday I checked it out. The only concrete thing I could find was a post on FFN's homepage:

June 4th 2012 -- Notices:

• Please note we would like to clarify the content policy we have in place since 2002. FanFiction.Net follows the Fiction Rating system ranging from Fiction K to Fiction M. Although Fiction Ratings goes up to Fiction MA, FanFiction.Net since 2002 has not allowed Fiction MA rated content which can contain adult/explicit content on the site. FanFiction.Net only accepts content in the Fiction K through Fiction M range. Fiction M can contain adult language, themes and suggestions. Detailed descriptions of physical interaction of sexual or violent nature is considered Fiction MA and has not been allowed on the site since 2002.

Don't think swearing counts as MA... using movie / TV ratings as a guide here, but I also understand they aren't exact parallels. And... if you think yours is bad... my Shep's vocab is a list of swear words.

Modifié par noxiuniversitas1, 09 juin 2012 - 12:46 .

[lillitheris]

I think even the Seven Words are allowed under M

[Sialater]

Well, hell, if they're including violence... any fic that puts in gameplay combat is scewed.