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[gisle]

Drussius wrote...

First off, Happy New Year to all. Hope everyone had a great night and is enjoying the start to their 2013.

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Samara: "Only three Ardat-Yakshi are in existance today..."
Codex: "Up to 1% of the asari population dwells on the Ardat-Yakshi spectrum."

Don't have a lot to add on the other issues discussed because I happen to agree with most of it. As for this, however, my personal feeling was that these were never meant to contradict each other. I took it instead as similar to genetic diseases like Taysachs. 1% of the asari population carries the recessive gene that contributes to the Ardat-Yakshi mutation, but like Taysachs, the mutation only actually occurs in children when both parents carry the gene. Hence the information given that it's a mutation that results only from asari-exclusive pairings. That sort of thing.

I mean, Samara is not an Ardat-Yakshi, but all three of her children were. So she apparently carries some sort of recessive gene that she passed on to her offspring, but she herself is not sterile, so the mutation isn't active in her physical makeup.

However, if you want to point out inconsistencies, there's something else in play with Samara. She says there are only three Ardat-Yakshi in existence today. And yet there's a whole Ardat-Yakshi monastery where her daughters are staying, and where logs make reference to multiple other Ardat-Yakshi.

The codex is a primary canon source, and it says "Contrary to popular belief, Ardat-Yakshi are neither extremely rare
(around one per cent of asari dwell on the AY spectrum), nor are they
all murderers." And that codex entry was around in ME2 too. And Aeian, the PTSD asari's dialogue says her friend Neaira is an Ardat-Yaskhi implicitly, but certainly, and serving among the elite forces (Commandos) at that.

Samara might have left out the sufferers of weaker variants when she told Shepard about it, since it is a great shame to her species and Shepard didn't really have to know there might be tens of millions of them.

Besides, if maybe a hundred million had the recessive gene, there would be more than three of them.

Modifié par Gisle-Aune, 01 janvier 2013 - 11:23 .

[gearseffect]

Ignis Mors wrote...

I have to agree with you there, Lilivati. If it weren't for the strong characters there probably wouldn't be so much. And, a lot of fanfics probably wouldn't have ever been written if people were satisfied with ME3. I know that if Miranda had been given really good treatment in 3 I wouldn't have started writing Meus Mundus.

Agreed, only for me it's if ME3 had been what we were lead to believe it would and not the hollow shell of wasted potental I'd never have started writting Breaking Points and Awakening... well unless Samara was still not a full LI/Romance option which is really the main thing that lead me to write those fics in the first place only over the course of the year BW continued to treat us hard core fans like fools and over time I decided to give my Shepard's story the finale arch I wanted it to have. But yeah more or less what you all said, the characters in my Sheps story got no jus due in ME3 so I will do it.

[hot_heart]

I think my problem with the ME3 squad is that they put all the interesting characters into the big story arcs. Obviously, I'm speaking personally, but I loved Wrex and Mordin. Legion was a refreshing change, too.

Plus, I think the characterisation was off for a few of the characters. They can seem a bit one-note.

I'm not saying the ME3 squad is boring, but there's a distinct lack of tension or dramatic interaction compared to the other two games. It's great that there's a bit more going on around the Normandy, but there doesn't seem to be any substance to a lot of it.

But then, the whole atmosphere of ME3 is different, which affects the whole dynamic (and why people take to completely rewriting the events of the game in fanfic).

[Ignis Mors]

hot_heart wrote...

I think my problem with the ME3 squad is that they put all the interesting characters into the big story arcs. Obviously, I'm speaking personally, but I loved Wrex and Mordin. Legion was a refreshing change, too.

Plus, I think the characterisation was off for a few of the characters. They can seem a bit one-note.

I'm not saying the ME3 squad is boring, but there's a distinct lack of tension or dramatic interaction compared to the other two games. It's great that there's a bit more going on around the Normandy, but there doesn't seem to be any substance to a lot of it.

But then, the whole atmosphere of ME3 is different, which affects the whole dynamic (and why people take to completely rewriting the events of the game in fanfic).

Yeah, in ME2, it was kinda dark, but ME3 is almost entirely a bleak world. So little of the lightness of tone that contrasted in the first two games. There was so little hope in ME3. In 1 and 2 when you talked to Sovereign and Harbinger, Shepard was the voice of the galaxy's hope. And, in them, Shepard was a person who the player could somewhat make an avatar for them in the game universe. But, in 3 so much autodialog is used that it is no longer your Shepard. In almost every scene with Liara, my Shepards acted nothing like they would towards her. My male Shep who was romancing Miranda was more affected by the fall of Thessia than he was by seeing the woman he  loved being in a beaten up state, and possibly near death.  He was calm, not angry, not determined to beat the **** out of her father. And, when I stabbed Leng, it wasn't "That's for hurting Miranda, you son of a ****." It was "That's for Thane." just like it was for a femshep who romanced him.  In short, my Shepard acted OOC more than he did act in character for him. And, while I love the weight system, it adds a level of depth for a power heavy Shepard, I do not see why my Shepard would not be carryng either a Collector particle beam or a Cain, the two heavy weapons that I always had with me. The weapons that my Shepard would not be caught dead without one or the other. And, gears, I'm a guy too, and I don't care for fake boobs. So, you aren't as alone as you think. 

[gearseffect]

@Ignis and Hot_Heart on the subject of ME3 much of the atmosphere can be attributed to those dark lights in the Normandy. It's proven if you have dark lightening and/or little light it can bring out the gloomy aspects of things or increase depression in people. If this was considering in the design of the game I give many props to the designers.

As for the activity aboard the Normandy in ME3 it not having substance I gotta agree, I also feel that the ship felt empty compared to ME2 and even ME1. ME2 felt like a home, but then when my best friends were removed from it in ME3 it felt empty.

And yes My Shepard acted OOC all the damn time in ME3 and it irked me. I had to break it off with Liara in ME2 and then I did so in LotSB too. But in ME3 My Shepard was all like lovey dovey with her. Grabby hands and stuff. I suspect many of this is the result of not romancing anyone in ME2. I mean sure he romanced Kelly but he'd fallen For Samara.

SO ontop of the clear Liara favoritisum going on and the devs ramming her down our throat I suspect that somehow if you didn't romance anyone in ME2 (other than Kelly and attempted Samara) it assumes you still want to be with Liara reguardless of breaking up with her in ME2 multiple times.

All throughout the game it felt Like Liara was very passive of my Shepard like they were married and he was gonna cheat on her.

Regarding Miranda being hurt in ME3 or dying my Shep called her a "good friend" and it bugged me because my Shepard didn't considerd Miranda a friend and her loyalist attitude and having excuses/justifying or trying to make Cerberus's actions seem not as morbid or wrong, IE Akuze, Rachni, Thorian Creepers, and so on My Shepard didn't trust her. If he can't trust her she dang sure wouldn't have been a friend. Plus my Shepard is very anti-Cerberus.

So yeah that auto-dialogue made all our Sheps no longer ours.

@Ingis good to know I'm not so alone.

[Spiritwolf1]

I do not see it as ramming Liara as a love interest down your throat. I have played with her as a love interest and without. She has the same amount of time in the game as Garrus and maybe a little bit less. I find that if she is not your love interest she becomes a lot like Garrus, always there by your side as a buddy and I honestly think the Garrus femshep relationship was the best done.

I would also like to say that I loved Mass Effect right up until and including Mass Effect 3. While I was not a fan of the ending I accepted it. I have seen worse and I have seen better. I by far enjoyed the extended cut much better but I still, deep down, wanted a wishy washy fairytail ending..

Anyways just my two cents just seemed that we were doing a lot of game bashing and not all of us hated or disliked the game.

[Ignis Mors]

Spiritwolf1 wrote...

I do not see it as ramming Liara as a love interest down your throat. I have played with her as a love interest and without. She has the same amount of time in the game as Garrus and maybe a little bit less. I find that if she is not your love interest she becomes a lot like Garrus, always there by your side as a buddy and I honestly think the Garrus femshep relationship was the best done.

I would also like to say that I loved Mass Effect right up until and including Mass Effect 3. While I was not a fan of the ending I accepted it. I have seen worse and I have seen better. I by far enjoyed the extended cut much better but I still, deep down, wanted a wishy washy fairytail ending..

Anyways just my two cents just seemed that we were doing a lot of game bashing and not all of us hated or disliked the game.

I agree that we've been doing a lot of ME3 bashing, but in the words of Yahtzee Croshaw, the worst thing you can say to an artist is to say that their work is perfect. So, while we may be bashing the game, we're doing it because we love Bioware games, and want them to improve. It isn't out of maliciousness or a desire to hate the game, because, I at least, want to like ME3. I want to be able to say that it is one of the best games of the year, but too many mistakes were made with it. It isn't a bad game, but it isn't an amazing game. As much as it feels like herecy to say this, but I'd have to say that Halo 4, Borderlands 2, Assassin's Creed III, Darksiders II, and Dishonored are better games than it.
And, while Halo 4 may not be as good a universe as Mass Effect, I feel that it didn't have the probelms that ME3 did. It didn't tear apart the established lore like 3 did with its ending, or remove so much of what made the series great. Mass Effect was made great because you could create your own character, and your decisions mattered. And, the characters also made it great. In ME3, those two things, are poorly  handled. Your choices mean what? Nothing. And, for people who don't romance Liara, in a lot of conversations with her Shepard acted different from the Shepard that was created in the previous two titles. 
And, I may not have really played any of those titles a lot, I have reviewed the plot of them, and story-wise, and gameplay wise, they do not use a plot-hole-o-matic to write the ending, and the OOC-o-matic to write the already established characters. (Zaeed would definitely join you on the Normandy. And, while less likely, I think that Miranda, Grunt(If Wrex would let him, which he probably would), and Jacob would also join you. 
The other ones I can accept not joining you,(Mordin and Legion die, or Mordin fakes his death) Samara is also acceptable, but I would have preffered for them to have found a way to put her on the Normandy. Then, there's the simple fact that the people who helped my renegade Shepard(The maleshep) grow as a human being were completely ignored. They were Miranda, Mordin, Garrus, Tali, Thane, and Samara. They made him go from a complete douchebag to everyone he came across. Except Anderson. That was pretty much the only person he respected. Hell, he was a jerk to his mom in ME1. So, we are beating on 3 because for a good number of us, it does not have the Shepard we built up for two games. It has a person that we don't know. It's as if someone took a good friend of ours, and replaced him with someone else. Someone who only physically resembles the character we knew for two games before that. And then, the ending is just space magic. Even now.

Modifié par Ignis Mors, 02 janvier 2013 - 02:12 .

[Spiritwolf1]

Yes and again, these are some of the thing you and other perceive and that is fine some people percieve differently and there are thread out there for these debated, this is not the thread for this. m not saying this was the perfect game but I was happy with it and I have seen so much complaining that I have stopped going to the other threads. I come here only to discuss writing and answer question or get answers to questions I have about writing and to have some fun with people who also love to write fan fic.

I dont want to come to this thread and read about why everyone wants to bash the game and if this is what the thread is going to turn into then perhaps I really don;t need to come here either.

[Ignis Mors]

I can see that. I'll quit talking about it. Sorry about making this more like those threads about the ending. So, does anyone else think that In Medias Res is used too much in games?

[jayred vas normandy]

I'm getting ready to begin publishing my Fan fic based on Multiplayer and need some betas, if your interested please PM me, FFN name is the same as BSN. this is just a little taste.

Vengeance for the fallen

Prologue
2 Days before Reaper invasion of Earth

Drifting through the inky black of space the Systems Alliance frigate Pearl Harbor ran on minimum power in an attempt to go unnoticed by any that may have been looking. The vessel was currently patrolling the neutral region between Alliance and Batarian space, Pearl Harbor was tasked to watch for any activity from the increasingly quiet Hegemony. Six months prior Commander Shepard was reported to have caused the total destruction of a Batarian system and consequently the deaths of over three hundred thousand Batarian colonist. Alliance brass had made it clear that they wanted Alliance territory secure in the event of Batarian retaliation.
“Sit rep.” Captain Allana Fallon ordered from behind the pilot’s seat.
“No Activity detected, it’s a bit creepy ma’am. This is the main route to the Cadmas relay, we should be seeing freighter activity at the least. But as far as I can tell we’re totally alone out here.” reported the young sensor officer.
“Maintain passive scanning; let me know if anything changes.”
The Captain turned to head back through the heart of the ship when she spotted her XO, Major Carver Frost heading her way with a look of concern in his eye.
“Still nothing on scanners?” he asked, thought it was clearly a statement and not a question.
“It just doesn’t make sense, where the hell have they all gone?” she asked not really expecting an answer.
The two officers began making their way back toward the body of the frigate as they mused over their situation.
“It’s starting to look like Shepard may have been right.” Frost stated without preamble.
“Please Major, I still haven’t seen anything to make me believe the Apocalypse is coming and I’d appreciate it if we could focus on the evidence in front of us.”
Almost as if on cue alarms and lights began blaring.
“Multiple contacts.” shouted the pilot.
“I’ve got three ships on sensors, two match Batarian frigate profiles ….this can’t be right…”
“What is it?” Fallon asked returning to the cockpit with Frost right on her heels.
“The third ship, profile matches the Geth Dreadnought from the Battle of the Citadel.”
Silence dominated the cockpit for a short moment while the irony of the command team’s recent conversation sunk in.
“What’s the evidence look like now Captain?” Frost asked humorlessly.
“Get us the hell out of here lieutenant.” was the only response the Captain gave.

[Lilivati]

Spirit, I liked ME3 too. While I can agree on the auto-dialog and ending problems I actually felt it had the strongest story of the trilogy, and it's definitely the one I replay the most. (A lot of people are saying they disliked ME3 because of the squadmate choices, and, well, I can sympathize because two of my three favorite squadmates were absent in ME2 and returned in ME3- one reason I like it better.) I've spent hundreds of hours with these games, more if you count writing fic and discussing them with other people. I don't think anyone would have done that if they didn't like them. People are going to have different opinions and there's no right or wrong opinion. I think discussion like this is a great way for people to express how much they did appreciate the games, because they're invested enough to care. But I'm sorry if it upset you; I think I may have inadvertently tipped it off.

There are definitely characters I disliked a lot in-game that the fan community changed my mind about. Some of them I still don't love and probably never will, but I have a much greater appreciation for their depth and intricacies. I can't say at this point that there is any character I hate. I can appreciate them all in their own ways.

As far as in medias res goes, currently it seems to be quite abused in all forms of media, not just video games. Not everything needs to open with a giant action sequence of some kind, you know? I think video games in particular feel an obligation to give the player something to do immediately and this is one of the easier ways of accomplishing that.

[Ignis Mors]

Yeah, sometimes you want to start a story with action that wouldn't work without having In Medias Res because otherwise there would be no context. And, while that may not work, there are ways to implement In Medias Res that could be used to help establish the world that things are in, to help it seem like there is more going on there than starting in the beginning would reveal. Have it hook the viewer with not just action, but also with conspiracy, and the world that the story is set in. However, I think the greatest way of setting up a world with a sense that there is more going on here than you can easily notice is the Wheel of Time series. The first book starts out, BEFORE the main story begins, but works a lot like using In Medias Res. It's really quite an impressive way of twisting a cliche like In Medias Res on its head. Starting before the start of the main plot is something I've not seen any other book series do, even though there are many that would benefit from it.

[Spiritwolf1]

I dont mind the contraversy surrounding what age people are at or they level of power of biotics because that is information that can effect a story, but it was starting to turn into a mass effect/certain character bash and that I hate hearing on a constistant basis elsewhere. I wont deny that Bioware made somethings contray to other things and had a few opps moments that can effect how one percieves an event or character in a story. but things were starting to get personal and into the area of bashing and I dont think any of us really want to go in that direction. It wasnt you Lilli

[Spiritwolf1]

In Medias Res:

I've seen this done in many shows with great effect, one of my favs being Firefly the episode where Mal appeared nude on some planet, then it went on to describe how he got there. Or the Firefly episode where they were trying to take the ship and Mal was remembering the past.

Castle has used it a couple times as well. I actually kinda like it. I haven't really seen it done in a game to the extent it is done on television, but I do like it

[gearseffect]

Spirit Feel free to say my name anytime if you are referring to me, I'm getting the vibe I'm the person you are talking about.

[Spiritwolf1]

umm nope wasnt just one person or I wouldnt have cared

[gearseffect]

Spiritwolf1 wrote...

umm nope wasnt just one person or I wouldnt have cared

Oh okay I wasn't sure if it was me stating that I felt  Liara was rammed down my thoat in ME3 that was what prompted your post about ME3 bashing. 

I have no problem when people use my name and say that I've upset them I don't take it personal.

[Ignis Mors]

On my opinion of In Medias Res, I also think it is a good tool for applying a kind of narrative that other literary tools wouldn't apply as well, but I feel that there are a lot of times that it is used poorly. I think most of you have probably not played this game, but the game Infinite Undiscovery does a very poor job of doing In Medias Res, because throughout the rest of the title, you learn two things about the main character before he was pulled into the adventure. It was just a lazy way of starting the story at the point where there is dramatic tension. It also forced the team to have the protagonist who doesn't know the obvious that everyone else in the world knows. There are literally children who know more about the world they live in than the main character. It was a slapdash approach to storytelling that is common in tri-ace games. One of their previous titles, Radiata Stories had similar story-telling issues. I just seem to notice that it is so often misused that it doesn't add to the experience like it did to Bioshock or KOTOR1.

[hot_heart]

Spiritwolf1 wrote...
Anyways just my two cents just seemed that we were doing a lot of game bashing and not all of us hated or disliked the game.

Agreed. I don't see the point in bashing the game, or suggesting what a writer's intention was. Though I would argue that it can serve as a useful piece for discussing and dissecting from a writer's perspective. Obviously, as well as what we didn't like/didn't feel worked, it includes what we do like and what does work.

It's all about presenting your case and making a point, not regurgitating typical BSN rhetoric.

Anyway, the topic's moved on, so hooray. In personal news, I'm finally getting towards finishing this chapter. Though I will be covering fewer events than planned initially (again). Oh well...

[Drussius]

In Medias Res is popular in large part because it helps to grab an audience's attention. It's important in any form of entertainment media, in my opinion, to start things off in a way that grabs attention. It doesn't have to be over the top, but something that grabs the reader/viewer/player is essential. I can't think of a specific example at the moment, but I know that I have read stories in the past that might have been excellent stories, but I dropped them after five Chapters because nothing had jumped out at me and invested me in the story or characters yet.

Granted, there are plenty of ways to reach out and grab the reader without starting in the middle of a story (though I do tend to make use of the technique myself... frequently), but the best stories are ones that somehow grab the reader from the very start.

Of course, that's just my opinion. Some people may disagree.

[fluffywalrus]

Ah, yes...In Medias Res. I don't tend to use that...in fact, if there's one flaw to my own fics, it's that they both start rather slowly. Especially my first one. The amount of first chapter views is staggering in comparison to the rest. I've had days with like, 10-15 views and the only chapter viewed was my first I mean, it gets a bit more intense by chapter 5 or so, but meh. Kind of hard to start with action when you're writing about a 12 year old. And doing an origin story where the timeline is jumping around all over the place just doesn't seem like a decent idea, IMO.

But I can understand that most people want something that catches their eye from the get go, and I can't fault anyone for expecting such content. Especially when there's so many things in the world to read!

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Off topic. Aria T'Loak. She's an intriguing Asari for sure I don't have an easy time penning her in my fanfic but I can only try my best. She also reminds me of someone. I'm watching the 5th season of B5 now and I remember who it is. Na'Toth. Aide to G'Kar who disappeared when the Centauri invaded Narn.

Of the two actors who assumed this role, Julie Caitlin Brown put personality into this char. She's just as arrogant, with that implicit twist of fiery essence and ability as Aria. If there's anyone I'd voted to act as Aria. she's it.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 04 janvier 2013 - 04:37 .

[Spiritwolf1]

A bump and some humour... this was a good laugh

http://www.fanfictio...s-Vakarian-list

Garrus jokes...

and the highlight of this list and had tears in my eyes

*Garrus Vakarian can make you orgasm... WITH HIS MIND.

Modifié par Spiritwolf1, 03 janvier 2013 - 09:30 .

[hot_heart]

I'm sure the topic I'm about to raise has been discussed before, but we have quite a few new faces, and someone asking a question in a similar vein just the other day.

What sort of 'rules' do you follow for personal barriers (biotic or kinetic)? I try not to be too gamey about it, but it can be tricky to flesh it out while avoiding weird inconsistencies.

To elaborate, I was wondering about how they react to damage (or just how you write it). I mean, in-game, characters tend to stay rooted to the spot until their shields or armour have been taken down (which I don't think was the case in ME1); I seem to recall it being stated that they offer some sort of protection against biotic effects (but combined biotic effects create explosions! )

Additionally, how do you see it when it comes to significant projectile force like, for example, Ravager fire? I was reading a fic where gunfire knocked a shielded person off-balance and it was well-written enough that it didn't seem out-of-place to me. Would it make sense to feel some of the force as soon as the barrier is broken, perhaps?

[Tairis Deamhan]

I tend to use barriers/shields in the same way one would use a bullet proof vest, but minus the massive bruising and with severely reduced felt impact (spaace maagic). They're there to stop bullets that you just can't avoid in most cases and only rarely are they strong enough to just absorb a high volume of fire.

Basically 'in story' I think of it like playing on Insanity. Combat is deadly, very deadly. The combination of high grade barriers and advanced armor is the reason that characters like those in Mass Effect survive more combat missions in a single game than most special forces soldiers see in their entire lives.