9960 réponses à ce sujet

[Drussius]

I use shields very similarly to Tairis. Although I do include the odd bit here or there where characters stumble as a result of shots that hit their shields, ala the cutscene where Ashley first appears in ME1, where she gets shot in the back while running and stumbles forward in response. I have also frequently mentioned the shields collapsing and people taking cover to give them time to recharge.

As far as protection from biotics, I just use my personal logic on that one. I think throw, warp, reave, etc. would have to collapse the shield first. A biotic charge would hit it like any other impact, etc... A kinetic shield is a personal mass effect field, and biotics create various mass effect-based effects, so there is some logic that a shield would offer protection from biotic effects. As for the biotic explosion potential, I guess shields/barriers are just a lot more stable than detonatable effects like singularities, warp fields, etc. But since my story is based on the game, I try not to contradict the established workings of the games any more than I feel I absolutely have to.

But for large amounts of force, yes... I've written several scenes in my fic where an explosion or powerful attack shatters the shield and knocks the character flat in a single shot. I've noticed that while there are "stagger" mechanics in the game, there is no "knockdown" for players to suffer. So on that one, I've taken artistic liberties again with the amount of force transferred.

[hot_heart]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I'd actually forgotten about 'staggering', despite playing multiplayer a fair amount (damn you, geth!) And I think large enough forces would stun you in ME2.

It's good to know that it wouldn't be too far-fetched to take it one step further.

(And to clarify, the biotic explosion thing was a joke )

[gisle]

Codex in ME1 says the shields only block projectiles with some speed. I imagine that goes all the way from bullets to shrapnel flying from a blown up mech or something among those lines. I assume they have some ways to have the shields counteract mass effect fields to offer protection against biotics. Shields aren't a constant field, they're just plenty of emitters ready to spew out a field to deflict a bullet. I doubt shields can protect against melée attacks, since ME3 fails to explain that one.

Also, I wonder why the game have bioitcs project their own field, since well, I think paying the thousand or whtever credits is a better idea than exhaust themselves doing it manaully. Just some silly game mechanic, I guess to make biotics different. And as for ME2, I don't figure why higher-ranking eclipse mercs would prime themselves for BEs instead of buying kinetic shielding equipment.

All in all, kinetic shields had an upgrade between ME1 and 2 they failed to explain in lore, or to make sense. In RP or fanfics, I would at least just use ME1's canon.

Biotic barriers are a constat field, and I'd think a strong one would be able to project against melée and heat. They should supplement kinetic shielding, not replace it. Also, advanced biotics could extend it to make a wall or sphere. Think Omega DLC asari or Priority:Thessia asari now, not MP justicars. SP > MP in canon matters, after all.

[hot_heart]

Gisle-Aune wrote...
I doubt shields can protect against melée attacks, since ME3 fails to explain that one.

Also, I wonder why the game have bioitcs project their own field, since well, I think paying the thousand or whtever credits is a better idea than exhaust themselves doing it manaully. Just some silly game mechanic, I guess to make biotics different.

Melee attacks move slowly enough not to trigger the barrier.

And I can only assume that trying to use both forms of barrier simultaneously causes some conflict (as we've already established, kinetic barriers can block biotic effects) and that naturally-attuned biotics like asari don't find it such a strain. Going one further, perhaps it helps prime/boost other biotic usage. Obviously, it's nothing more than game mechanics, but if you want to try and make something from it...

[gisle]

Pull and pull don't cause a BE, so why should two fields meant to deflict a bullet? I'd assume the barrier field and shields might have a antergy (2+2=3) as the shield emitter might not account for the aid the barrier offers, unless the barrier field is beyond the range of the shield emitters, so it relieves the shields off their work entirely. It's unclear, but if the shields have kept a field on constantly, they would have deflicted the chair the user sat down on.

Biotic barriers are something different. That field is emitted costantly, and if it can block out bugs in the SM, I assume a well-made field from a skilled biotic can keep melee away too. I think I've seen the barrier bubble on Priority:Thessia be assaulted by a brute and deflict melee. About letting a friendly inside, I'd assume a skilled biotic might be able to weaken the barrier temporarily to let a humanoid inside.

I'm not a fanfic writer, but this is about the only thread on BSN a good lore discussion can be had. I RP, though, so it is relevant to me.

Modifié par Gisle-Aune, 04 janvier 2013 - 02:37 .

[Drussius]

The codex says that shields detect objects moving above a certain speed and deflects them away. I'd imagine that even a punch could trigger this sort of defense. It would make sense, since in the game you lose shields to melee attacks. But it also says that because they only affect objects traveling above a certain speed, that the user can sit down without knocking their chair away. I always pictured them as something that is consistently active, since the codex bothered to mention that they deflect projectiles and fast-moving objects but would not knock a chair out from under a user that attempts to sit down.

As for the Biotic Explosions and shields, I believe that was meant as a joke. I only mentioned it because as you said, not every mass effect field created by biotics reacts negatively to every biotic effect.

[Ignis Mors]

I've got a question about the defenses in ME, why do people wear bulky metal armor when it's probable that they would have found a way to make massively stronger versions of Kevlar?

[gisle]

From codex:
"These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles. (...) The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation. "

A fist or or a heavy slower moving melee like the brute's isn't what I'd call a small projectile moving at a rapid velocity. Fire and the drug in ME2 is also blocked by shields, when the codex explicitly says otherwise.

[Drussius]

Ignis Mors wrote...

I've got a question about the defenses in ME, why do people wear bulky metal armor when it's probable that they would have found a way to make massively stronger versions of Kevlar?

Actually, the armor in ME isn't metal. According to the codex, it consists of a fabric armor weave with kinetic padding over flexible portions of the body, and reinforced sheets of ablative ceramic over parts that don't bend, like the chest, shins, forearms, etc.

So the bulkiest suits of armor would have more layers of reinforced ceramic and would still be a bit heavier, but overall, ME armor would be far lighter than metal armor.


As for barriers and melee attacks, true a fist isn't exactly small, but I tend to lean more toward gameplay on this one than the codex. I think the word 'small' was used in the codex without thinking about it. I mean, if you're going to develop a system of shielding to protect against dangerous attacks like bullets and projectiles, why wouldn't you optimize it to deflect blades, bludgeons and physical attacks as well? I think they used the word 'small' just to clarify that shields wouldn't deflect a falling boulder or a large missile. But a properly thrown punch or a weapon swung with the intent to injure still moves pretty fast, so the threshold could be set at a point to help deflect them. I believe a strike from a trained athelete like a boxer is capable of exceeding 50mph. I'm sure anyone trained in combat would have similar striking speed.

And the armor in ME2 didn't protect against the drug as I'm aware. If I recall, there was a separate bar when you were standing in the cloud that built up until you started suffering damage from exposure. If it drained shields once you exceeded exposure (I don't know if it did, I never stood in it long enough to find out for fear that it would go straight to critical mission failure) then I blame that on the game mechanics rather than any attempt to suggest shields defend against toxins. To my knowledge, the game wasn't set up to allow you to suffer health damage before losing shields.

I suppose the same could be said for your shields absorbing melee attacks, but I still maintain that shields would be optimized to defend against as many forms of danger as possible, including hand-to-hand and melee assaults. Arguments can certainly be made against my view, but as was discussed here recently, the codex has a few more contradictory bits of information than would be ideal.

Edit: For spelling.

Modifié par Drussius, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:19 .

[Spiritwolf1]

Ok hears another question, does the armour regulate body heat and temperature, cause I noticed the crew wears only the armour and elmet in all harsh climates. Would it cool them down as needed as well as keep them warm?

[gisle]

At least quarian enviromental suits do that, as said in the ME:Ascension novel, so the technology is there. And it would make sense to assume that regular non-quarian -- at least higher end -- hardsuits have some functions to make higher temperatures bearable and increase the comfort.

[Ignis Mors]

Drussius wrote...

Ignis Mors wrote...

I've got a question about the defenses in ME, why do people wear bulky metal armor when it's probable that they would have found a way to make massively stronger versions of Kevlar?

Actually, the armor in ME isn't metal. According to the codex, it consists of a fabric armor weave with kinetic padding over flexible portions of the body, and reinforced sheets of ablative ceramic over parts that don't bend, like the chest, shins, forearms, etc.

So the bulkiest suits of armor would have more layers of reinforced ceramic and would still be a bit heavier, but overall, ME armor would be far lighter than metal armor.


As for barriers and melee attacks, true a fist isn't exactly small, but I tend to lean more toward gameplay on this one than the codex. I think the word 'small' was used in the codex without thinking about it. I mean, if you're going to develop a system of shielding to protect against dangerous attacks like bullets and projectiles, why wouldn't you optimize it to deflect blades, bludgeons and physical attacks as well? I think they used the word 'small' just to clarify that shields wouldn't deflect a falling boulder or a large missile. But a properly thrown punch or a weapon swung with the intent to injure still moves pretty fast, so the threshold could be set at a point to help deflect them. I believe a strike from a trained athelete like a boxer is capable of exceeding 50mph. I'm sure anyone trained in combat would have similar striking speed.

And the armor in ME2 didn't protect against the drug as I'm aware. If I recall, there was a separate bar when you were standing in the cloud that built up until you started suffering damage from exposure. If it drained shields once you exceeded exposure (I don't know if it did, I never stood in it long enough to find out for fear that it would go straight to critical mission failure) then I blame that on the game mechanics rather than any attempt to suggest shields defend against toxins. To my knowledge, the game wasn't set up to allow you to suffer health damage before losing shields.

I suppose the same could be said for your shields absorbing melee attacks, but I still maintain that shields would be optimized to defend against as many forms of danger as possible, including hand-to-hand and melee assaults. Arguments can certainly be made against my view, but as was discussed here recently, the codex has a few more contradictory bits of information than would be ideal.

Edit: For spelling.

Thanks for the explanation on the armor, Drussius. It bugged me because I watch a lot of the military channel and it said that metals weren't used in protective armor as a main material because it was too heavy. And, I was thinking that it would be even more important in the ME universe than in ours. 
EDIT. I'm not sure. With their tech it could be small and lightweight, but, the armor may just be made from materials that react to different temperature extremes so that it is more comfortable. Also, I'd say they don't use the tech like that, because of the way the hostile environments that were hot and cold worked in ME1. They just took a while to get you dead. And, on the subject of the chemicals, it was mechanically necessary for it to affect your shields first. It wasn't like 1 or 3 where you could see both your health and shields at the same time.

Modifié par Ignis Mors, 05 janvier 2013 - 05:32 .

[gisle]

^Toxics and fire affecting shields is nothing but a game mechanic not backed by lore. They even removed the kinetic barrier codex in ME2, it seems. I would have accepted it had they made a somewhat decent explanation why the shields got an upgrade between '83 and '85. Along with why snipers and pistols use different heat sinks, when a universal design would be far better when one need to adapt to a situation.

I was more thinking of uncomfortable temps like -20*C and 40*C rather than hazardous temperatures when I said that. I should have specified that; sorry.

[Lilivati]

Spiritwolf1 wrote...

Ok hears another question, does the armour regulate body heat and temperature, cause I noticed the crew wears only the armour and elmet in all harsh climates. Would it cool them down as needed as well as keep them warm?

It's fairly obvious from the missions that the hard suit (with helmet) CAN function as a viable space suit, at least for limited amounts of time, since they operate in vacuum on occasion..  It would have to be able to regulate temperature to fulfill that function, and more importantly air pressure within the suit.  Space suits operate at low presures relative to sea level to allow for mobility, for example, though clearly materials science in ME is far more advanced than in our world given how thin and flexible the suits are.  

Also, getting RID of heat is the objective of a space suit, more than conserving it.  Space may be very "cold", but there's nothing in vacuum to transmit the heat away efficiently.  Obviously in non-vaccum environments keeping warm might be of greater concern.  Real spacesuits are capable of fulfilling both functions.  I don't see why a suit would not perform similar functions in hostile environments or harsh climates, given that ME suits are worn in all environments.

However, ME space suits might actually have some problems with keeping warm.  The reason is that  ME suits (at least of the human variety) may only pressurize the helmet, and maintain pressure via elasticity of the webbing on the rest of the body, in which case cooling would be a more natural process than in the thick multi-layer suits of reality.  This may explain why in ME2 all the leaks occur only around the neckline or at the (presumed location) of the air purification unit on Shepard's back, despite the entire suit having suffered exposure to a massive explosion.

Obviously this is all rampant speculation, but I hope it helps you with your question.

[Drussius]

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Along with why snipers and pistols use different heat sinks, when a universal design would be far better when one need to adapt to a situation.

I've heard several people make this point.  But sniper rifles and other weapons all use the same heat sink. Heat sinks are universal, according to the codex. Any heat sink can snap into any weapon.

The difference is the heat generated by the weapon, not the sink. Just like in ME1, if you fired your sniper rifle twice in rapid succession, it overheated. Shotguns you could shoot three or four times. Assault rifles and pistols, a ton more. Same thing applies after the development of the thermal clips. Sniper rifles just generate a ton more heat than less powerful weapons because of the increased length, projectile power, and so forth.


Edit: I do understand why people get confused though. Because Bioware screwed up their implementation by having each weapon use a separate supply, when all of the weapons your character carries should have drawn from the same store of thermal clips. Just thought I'd add that, since it's another codex vs. gameplay error. The codex says clips share a universal design, but the game tells you your rifle is out of ammo when you still have 9 clips worth of shots with your pistol. If they're universal, you should be able to interchange them freely.

Modifié par Drussius, 05 janvier 2013 - 07:51 .

[hot_heart]

Drussius wrote...
As for barriers and melee attacks, true a fist isn't exactly small, but I tend to lean more toward gameplay on this one than the codex. I think the word 'small' was used in the codex without thinking about it. I mean, if you're going to develop a system of shielding to protect against dangerous attacks like bullets and projectiles, why wouldn't you optimize it to deflect blades, bludgeons and physical attacks as well? I think they used the word 'small' just to clarify that shields wouldn't deflect a falling boulder or a large missile. But a properly thrown punch or a weapon swung with the intent to injure still moves pretty fast, so the threshold could be set at a point to help deflect them. I believe a strike from a trained athelete like a boxer is capable of exceeding 50mph. I'm sure anyone trained in combat would have similar striking speed.

I see the logic and what gameplay suggests. Exceptions would be things like phantom/banshee/brute sync kills that ignore shields (but that could be assumed a very powerful force focused one on point) and cutscenes (which can be less reliable due to being cutscenes...) Of course, you could argue that melee should affect shields because it would be weird in gameplay terms (and upset players) if it did bypass them.

Plus, I could see why perhaps the speed 'threshold' at the low end might be higher, simply because of certain actions a user may need to perform themselves; things that would operate at a similar speed to a thrown punch. Snapping a thermal clip into a weapon or just trying to grab things might cause problems if done too quickly.

I'm not really 100% either way, but it can be handy to pick it apart and analyse it.

[Drussius]

I'm trying these days not to get too bogged down in the mechanics of it all and concentrate instead on what makes for the best scene in the story. Arguments could be made either way, and Gisle's suggestion that a punch wouldn't be hindered certainly has it's own merits. On some levels, I agree. Sometimes it's just hard for me to put aside what my logic says about a certain issue. I've always thought any proper shield would offer protection from both bullets and punches. I mean, if a shield deflects bullets but has no effect on a blade, then why bother shooting at all? If possible, just sneak up and stab your opponent instead. As you said, sync kills definitely break that gameplay convention. But that's just me citing a slightly exaggerated reason why I'd think shields work against both.

I personally say go with whatever best serves the story. I really wouldn't criticize a writer for going either way in their story.

[Lilivati]

Totally different universe, but there's precedent in sci-fi. The "shields" in Dune only protected against bullets, which was basically an excuse to bring back fighting with a blade as the main mode of combat. Traditional guns were obsolete but knives were quite popular. The logic employed was something like in order to prevent suffocation within the shield by the trapping of CO2, particles/objects below a certain speed had to be permitted to pass. There was also something about lasguns + shields = nuclear explosion, but it's been awhile and I'm hazy on the details.

The point is, it's made-up science. It needs to make logical sense because sci-fi readers generally expect that, but it doesn't have to make "real" scientific sense. You can make up any reasons or mechanisms that you like.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Lilivati wrote...

There was also something about lasguns + shields = nuclear explosion, but it's been awhile and I'm hazy on the details.

You got it right. Hotlzman generators produced shields. A lasgun beam hitting such a shield produced sub-atomic fusion and the mushroom will result. It's a no no to use shields out in the deep deserts of Dune. It's a red flag though I think it works better than the Fremen thumper. Well, at least in calling a worm. The bad news is that the caller gets eaten by a maddened worm.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 06 janvier 2013 - 04:51 .

[Lilivati]

Ok, I don't want to derail the thread, but am I alone in having to stop myself from calling thresher maws sandworms at least half the time? Every time I mention Akuze in my fic I have to double-check everything. >_<

[hot_heart]

Drussius wrote...
I personally say go with whatever best serves the story. I really wouldn't criticize a writer for going either way in their story.

I'm not saying people should follow one set rule.

I was looking for input from others (which I got. Thanks!), and it does seem like you could work it either way.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Lilivati wrote...

Ok, I don't want to derail the thread, but am I alone in having to stop myself from calling thresher maws sandworms at least half the time? Every time I mention Akuze in my fic I have to double-check everything. >_<

You might be. These two creatures are as different as cheese is from chalk.

For me, Shai-hulud / Shaitan / Great Maker is god-like. Thrasher Maws are irritating creatures.

[Lilivati]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

Lilivati wrote...

Ok, I don't want to derail the thread, but am I alone in having to stop myself from calling thresher maws sandworms at least half the time? Every time I mention Akuze in my fic I have to double-check everything. >_<

You might be. These two creatures are as different as cheese is from chalk.

For me, Shai-hulud / Shaitan / Great Maker is god-like. Thrasher Maws are irritating creatures.

I disagree.  Sure, the fremen hold them in high regard, but there weren't that many sandworms that actually demonstrated godlike qualities.  XD  Otherwise they just seem to cause a lot of trouble and share a number of the same, hmm, sensitivities as thresher maws.

[AustereLemur799]

Thank you to whoever answered my questions from days ago.

Again, I'm not an expert on Samara; but I do definitely believe that she is 800 years plus and is as powerful as an ordinary Matriarch as a Justicar (if that makes any sense?). I don't claim to be an expert here.

Alas, I've only got dial-up connection where I am (about 56kb)  so I can't come on here as often as I can. I was just wondering who here has biotic Shepards.

Personally I don't like to have biotic Shepards because I think it's good for other characters to fill this role - and I've also noticed in cutscenes how Shepard doesn't use biotics even when he/she has, most notably in the Grissom Academy cutscenes when Shepard attempts to break the glass with the butt of an assault rifle and Jack uses her biotics to smash the glass.

I've noticed that a lot of cutscenes in ME3 could've differed if Shepard had been recorded as a biotic for the scenes. Personally I don't like to have Shepard as a biotic because I don't like to have her/him as brilliant as everything.

I would love to hear about other people's perspectives on this. Do other people have biotic Shepard's from ME1?

[Quackjack]

Just going to pop in here. Been writing a fic for the hell of it and I'd like anyone to review if they have a fanfiction account. I'm not a writer by nature so go easy on me.

http://www.fanfictio...ilitation-Redux