9960 réponses à ce sujet

[hot_heart]

Seracen wrote...

So now that I've been writing my story, after a long hiatus, I've found that I've been focusing more on dialogue. This is odd, as I used to be all about the fight scenes way back when I started writing (in general).

Reading the progression of my previous works over the years, it seems that I find the drama to be more compelling, however...

Just curious to ask the group:

Do you find dialogue heavy pieces to be entertaining? Or do you prefer it when a paragraph portrays the emotion and thoughts contained in an exchange, as opposed to exposition?

Perhaps you hate all the talking and feeling, preferring to get to the juicy action laden bits?

I find that a good balance is best, but again, I am afraid I am doing whole chapters of nothing but dialogue exposition, and am curious if any find this a misstep.

As someone who is incredibly fussy about pacing, I can see merits to all different approaches.

It really depends on what sort of story you're writing. Some people are drawn to lighter material and are very good at conveying a leisurely scene. I have seen instances in those where the dialogue could be a little tighter and where it's lifting too much weight when it comes to exposition (or is just plain redundant), but that's probably more a sign of my own preferences and screenwriting background than a universal criticism; especially since I'm still learning the craft anyway. If little actions or thoughts can reveal character, then it can help to avoid having them outright state what they're thinking.

Personally, I like to keep everything flowing smoothly, but it does mean that sometimes the story doesn't get room to breathe. It's something I'll have to work on in a forthcoming chapter, considering the tone. Also, I am an emotionless drone in real life so I struggle with conveying 'feelings'

And, lastly, it also comes down to the characters involved. Some like to talk more than others, some have expressive body language, others might the complete opposite. You just kind of experiment and see what works.

[enayasoul]

I was always told to have the characters doing something while talking or moving. Some kind of action so it doesn't appear they are talking heads. I usually add that part while writing or after I have written a scene.

I do describe what the room is like or place if it's the first time there. Usually in the very beginning.

Some use dialogue to move the story forward or give information to another person. Thoughts and feelings can usually be told by how they react in words or by body language.

I think my stories might be more dialogue than paragraphs. It all depends really.

[snipeshot224]

Seracen wrote...

So now that I've been writing my story, after a long hiatus, I've found that I've been focusing more on dialogue. This is odd, as I used to be all about the fight scenes way back when I started writing (in general).

Reading the progression of my previous works over the years, it seems that I find the drama to be more compelling, however...

Just curious to ask the group:

Do you find dialogue heavy pieces to be entertaining? Or do you prefer it when a paragraph portrays the emotion and thoughts contained in an exchange, as opposed to exposition?

Perhaps you hate all the talking and feeling, preferring to get to the juicy action laden bits?

I find that a good balance is best, but again, I am afraid I am doing whole chapters of nothing but dialogue exposition, and am curious if any find this a misstep.

I agree with the other two posting before me. You don't have to have some heartfelt conversation about the origin of life and the universe while blowing up a Cerberus base Expendables-style, but some sort of indication of life like general movement or messing around with/moving things in the room adds a bit of depth during a conversation.

Either way if your fic is posted somewhere let me know and I'll gladly read it.

[hot_heart]

snipeshot224 wrote...
One question. I know Saren has a brother, Desolas, but would anyone find it aggravatingly lore-breaking if he had a second sibling? I'm just trying to get some of my dicier ideas out there so that I can see a general reaction before putting them in just in case one of them gets everyone up in a fit.

I didn't even know Saren had one brother.

I don't see it as a problem. Probably depends more on why he is Saren's brother.

[snipeshot224]

hot_heart wrote...

snipeshot224 wrote...
One question. I know Saren has a brother, Desolas, but would anyone find it aggravatingly lore-breaking if he had a second sibling? I'm just trying to get some of my dicier ideas out there so that I can see a general reaction before putting them in just in case one of them gets everyone up in a fit.

I didn't even know Saren had one brother.

I don't see it as a problem. Probably depends more on why he is Saren's brother.

Yeah, he has one. It's just that said brother, Desolas, isn't featured in any of the games, instead only appearing in the comic Mass Effect: Evolution, so with that said most people who just play the games wouldn't really know he exists. And my idea was for Saren to have a sister who ex-communicated Saren, avoided mentioning her last name and left military service to avoid having much to do with Saren after he got involved with Sovereign, mostly out of self-preservation and to avoid the inevitable publicity from being related to a soon-to-be madman. 

[hot_heart]

Sounds like you've covered your bases anyway, so I can't see a problem. Though the reason for ex-communicating Saren seems a little...early.

I assume she distanced herself after having noticed a change in him, but one she couldn't quite pinpoint. He'd always been a bit of a ruthless Spectre, if I recall. Perhaps it is regarding him seeking out the geth (or getting a geth arm?!) People didn't believe the Reapers thing until afterwards (if that), so I'm unsure of the public ramifications when it comes to the turian military and such.

I doubt you need to go into a deep explanation, but it seems there's potential for a stronger reason behind distancing herself so thoroughly.

[snipeshot224]

hot_heart wrote...

Sounds like you've covered your bases anyway, so I can't see a problem. Though the reason for ex-communicating Saren seems a little...early.

I assume she distanced herself after having noticed a change in him, but one she couldn't quite pinpoint. He'd always been a bit of a ruthless Spectre, if I recall. Perhaps it is regarding him seeking out the geth (or getting a geth arm?!) People didn't believe the Reapers thing until afterwards (if that), so I'm unsure of the public ramifications when it comes to the turian military and such.

I doubt you need to go into a deep explanation, but it seems there's potential for a stronger reason behind distancing herself so thoroughly.

You pretty much got it. The ramifications with the Turian military would be trying to get out of the spotlight before reports of Saren walking among otherwise hostile Geth unharmed with a synthetic arm start to crop up. She cuts and runs before ME1 starts and he really tries to put the plan into motion, ditching because, knowing Saren on a sibling level, she knows the only thing that would possibly stop Saren from chasing the Geth with a common goal of human destruction would be dying. And that, also knowing Saren, had a very low chance of happening. She'll also be involved in how Saren gets the Geth arm unless it was explained somewhere else.

[hot_heart]

Ah, then it all sounds perfectly fine to me!

[Seracen]

snipeshot224 wrote...

One question. I know Saren has a brother, Desolas, but would anyone find it aggravatingly lore-breaking if he had a second sibling? I'm just trying to get some of my dicier ideas out there so that I can see a general reaction before putting them in just in case one of them gets everyone up in a fit.

Why not?  It's your world, go nuts with it!  If I am to play devil's advocate, I am always willing to go with strange conceits as long as the story backs it up, and is interesting to read.  Basically, if it's well thought out, that trumps everything else! 



PS: sorry for the late reply, I just got back from the beach, had a wedding to attend!

Modifié par Seracen, 04 mars 2013 - 03:01 .

[Ignis Mors]

Seracen wrote...

snipeshot224 wrote...

One question. I know Saren has a brother, Desolas, but would anyone find it aggravatingly lore-breaking if he had a second sibling? I'm just trying to get some of my dicier ideas out there so that I can see a general reaction before putting them in just in case one of them gets everyone up in a fit.

Why not?  It's your world, go nuts with it!  If I am to play devil's advocate, I am always willing to go with strange conceits as long as the story backs it up, and is interesting to read.  Basically, if it's well thought out, that trumps everything else! 



PS: sorry for the late reply, I just got back from the beach, had a wedding to attend!

Sorry for not saying anything about this before, didn't notice, but I'd agree with Seracen. My main fic basically takes the canon and tells it to go away it's going to do what it wants. And, I haven't gotten any complaints about it. One person got a little confused at first, but it wasn't a big issue. So, I'd say that the people on FF.net are very open with changes in the canon and lore, so long as it isn't done in a way that is so terrible that it is like having a knife rammed into their chest.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

I'm kind of wishing whoever came up with the ships who would also lay out the technical and crew aspects. They've practically nothing in those departments. So I'm going to have to take a guess on some stuff.

Does five hundred plus crew to an Alliance cruiser sound too many or too little? This does not include the marine complement. At best, I'm alotting at least a company of say a 150 marines under the command of a major or a colonel.

I'm also putting the number of shuttles to a cruiser as 5-6. Sitting number is only 12, I'm guessing if they really have to squeeze, maybe 24. On the whole, I'm tempted to dunk the shuttles for another bigger version just for bigger troop insertions. I think the Kodiak is just too small for large scale operations.

P.S. I'm not going to bother with the undefined military roles showcased in ME. To me, they're just too frecking a mess.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 04 mars 2013 - 11:38 .

[Ignis Mors]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

I'm kind of wishing whoever came up with the ships who would also lay out the technical and crew aspects. They've practically nothing in those departments. So I'm going to have to take a guess on some stuff.

Does five hundred plus crew to an Alliance cruiser sound too many or too little? This does not include the marine complement. At best, I'm alotting at least a company of say a 150 marines under the command of a major or a colonel.

I'm also putting the number of shuttles to a cruiser as 5-6. Sitting number is only 12, I'm guessing if they really have to squeeze, maybe 24. On the whole, I'm tempted to dunk the shuttles for another bigger version just for bigger troop insertions. I think the Kodiak is just too small for large scale operations.

P.S. I'm not going to bother with the undefined military roles showcased in ME. To me, they're just too frecking a mess.

I'd say that there are a lot fewer than five hundred crew on a  cruiser, because it's said that ship space is at a premium, so you would want a crew that was as small as reasonably possible. That way they'd have a more space for the individual crew members.

[hot_heart]

And there goes what I always knew would be the trickiest chapter. It appears to have been better received than I was expecting (frustrated 500-word PM not withstanding), so I'm happy. Without lilli's help it could've been a lot worse.

The biggest issue was trying to reconcile my own stuff with what's in-game. I know it seems foolish not to try and deviate from that (especially the instances where it is so bad/underwhelming), but I feel if I do it now, people will expect me to go completely off on a tangent, when in actual fact I've relied on some of it to inform the thematic elements and provide some structure. I actually never intended for the narrative to grow as it has, but I do intend to wring it of all dramatic potential. It has become increasingly apparent that I am trying to make 'sense' of the game for cathartic reasons, rather than completely rewrite it. Not sure that's the best approach here, but that's just how I'm doing it.

...oh, and I went for Blue Eyes as Vega's nickname for Miranda, in case that was playing on your mind.

[enayasoul]

What did Miranda mean by the 'john's transgression? Is that Shepard or the other alliance guy chasing her? Did she do something with him? :-0

[hot_heart]

Heh, I probably should've expanded on that even more (there was a lot less until that was suggested), as it is a very critical reason for why Miranda wanted to get away from the Alliance pretty sharpish. I just couldn't find a way that didn't sound like an exposition dump or just completely kill the flow.

It was a reference to chapter 15...which was probably written about 5 months ago now (eek!), so I can understand why the details aren't fresh in people's minds. Miranda used her access to Alliance resources to follow leads that Erin gave her. It turns out the lead was a dud (or was it?!) but by breaching the database, she allowed someone else inside. 'John' is the Alliance agent (I actually haven't given Shepard a first name) who goes after her, revealing what had transpired and how it posed a risk to the Crucible project.

So, a) Miranda is in hot water anyway, she doesn't want to land Shepard in it, since he gave her the access in the first place, and c) she has Oriana with her now.

Modifié par hot_heart, 04 mars 2013 - 08:05 .

[enayasoul]

That makes sense now. Thank you for clearing that up! Excellent set up for the next chapter!

[hot_heart]

No problem. I should attempt to try and address that oversight in the chapter...when my head isn't full of incoming DLC buzz.

And I should probably take the opportunity to point out that Miranda won't be interacting with the Normandy crew. There's a reason for that (that lilli helped formulate), plus I didn't want another 'Miranda passes out' cliffhanger.

I just don't want to get your hopes up and then disappoint. That's not to say that Oriana won't have been exploring the ship while Miranda was out cold though...

Plus, I need to see how I feel about the Citadel DLC in that regard.

[enayasoul]

You're doing fine. It's your story write it how you intended it to go. I'm just loving the ride. hehe.

I'm still trying to get my chapter done before it get's influenced by this citadel dlc. The chapter I am working on is on the citadel but for entirely different reasons...relating to info she found recently.

I'm finally where I was before I started uploading my chapters last year. hah! How some of it has changed along the way... for the better.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Ignis Mors wrote...

I'd say that there are a lot fewer than five hundred crew on a  cruiser, because it's said that ship space is at a premium, so you would want a crew that was as small as reasonably possible. That way they'd have a more space for the individual crew members.

From the cutscenes, a cruiser seems ten times or more bigger than the Normandy SR2 which I'm putting at measuring 150 meters or more in length. ...

Assuming Gaurdian turrets are V.I. controlled, gunnery crew can be discounted but it also sux if V.I. went offline and the ship is a sitting duck because if a turret can be fired manually, then there are no cew to fire them.

Crew wouldn't have inidvidual cabins, only officers would have them and that limited space. Sooo...counting in recreational areas, etc, etc. hmmm...an Alliance cruiser is a military vessel. If they can put in 5000 crew on a US aircraft carrier....500 is ****ty conservative considering the number of tasks the crew have to run to keep the cruiser in top flight. An Alliance cruiser is almost similar to an aircraft carrier since it also carries fighters. So there're pilots and the staff need to keep those fighters in top shape.

The military book series I'm following put a the crew complement of a heavy cruiser as 1500, including marine company. I'm not even going to touch the numbers on a superdreadnought.

hmm...

[Seracen]

hot_heart wrote...

No problem. I should attempt to try and address that oversight in the chapter...when my head isn't full of incoming DLC buzz.

And I should probably take the opportunity to point out that Miranda won't be interacting with the Normandy crew. There's a reason for that (that lilli helped formulate), plus I didn't want another 'Miranda passes out' cliffhanger.

I just don't want to get your hopes up and then disappoint. That's not to say that Oriana won't have been exploring the ship while Miranda was out cold though...

Plus, I need to see how I feel about the Citadel DLC in that regard.

I've always held that the author should be having fun with the work, so you should do anything you please, just that you have an obligation to make sense.

On that subject, I always take liberal advantage of the Author's Notes I post at the ends of my chapters (or final chapter if it's a one shot).  I find it easier to describe my process and backstory, for those who aren't reading between the lines or otherwise remembering the plot beats.  It certainly beats the exposition dump, assuming that you've set it up properly otherwise.

Tho I did recieve a PM asserting me that expo dump is not alwas bad, if done right.  It was what I needed to hear.

[hot_heart]

Oh, god, I'm terrible with author's notes. Every time, I try and keep it short...

What I may do once I've finished is go back and replace the general stuff with a sort of commentary. Not so much a rambly explanation but a little insight, as well as pointing out the references/easter eggs in case people missed them. Though, most should be obvious...

[dpMeggers]

 Hi Everybody! (Hi to folks who may remember me. Hi to folks who have no idea that I ever existed. Hi's all around. But not Highs. Unless you want one. But I'm not providing those...)

I'm back (again...for good this time! I think...). I took a (fairly long) hiatus from writing fanfic and also from reading it. Sorry! I have so much catching up to do! You've all written so much since I stopped reading.

So after my hiatus I've decided to rewrite Conversations...again...because apparently I'm still not satifsied with the beginning/characterization/various things. Which in turn will mean that I'm going to be doing a lot of background work and edits before the next chapter comes out (and it's been...many months and counting). But I'm feeling it now! I'm motivated to write and get this story out (finally).

And now...to talk about your awesome stuff!

snipeshot224 wrote...

One question. I know Saren has a brother, Desolas, but would anyone find it aggravatingly lore-breaking if he had a second sibling? I'm just trying to get some of my dicier ideas out there so that I can see a general reaction before putting them in just in case one of them gets everyone up in a fit.

To be fair...the lore never says 'Saren had a brother, and only a brother, and he never ever ever had a sister or any other family members so if you think so you're wrong.' We know for certain he has a brother and that's all. If you want to write a sister for him go for it.

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

I'm kind of wishing whoever came up with the ships who would also lay out the technical and crew aspects. They've practically nothing in those departments. So I'm going to have to take a guess on some stuff.

Does five hundred plus crew to an Alliance cruiser sound too many or too little?

So running from stuff in game: the first Normandy was a frigate with a skeleton crew IIRC, and it had a crew (including marine compliment but not including our alien friends) of approximately 51. Turian frigates in ME3 have a crew of approximately 75 (in game dialogue, James, Garrus and Shep, on Menae).

In ME2 if you save the Council and respond to Khalisah al-Jilani as a paragon, Shep mentions that each turian cruiser at the Battle of the Citadel had a crew of about 300 (they lost 20 of them). Shep also mentions that the Destiny Ascension (the asari dreadnaught) had a crew of 10,000.

It's probably safe to guess that if humans and turians collaborated on the Normandy, that their ships are of similar physical size and have roughly similar crews. Hope that helps?

[Seracen]

dpMeggers wrote...

 Hi Everybody! (Hi to folks who may remember me. Hi to folks who have no idea that I ever existed. Hi's all around. But not Highs. Unless you want one. But I'm not providing those...)

I'm back (again...for good this time! I think...). I took a (fairly long) hiatus from writing fanfic and also from reading it. Sorry! I have so much catching up to do! You've all written so much since I stopped reading.

So after my hiatus I've decided to rewrite Conversations...again...because apparently I'm still not satifsied with the beginning/characterization/various things. Which in turn will mean that I'm going to be doing a lot of background work and edits before the next chapter comes out (and it's been...many months and counting). But I'm feeling it now! I'm motivated to write and get this story out (finally).

Oh man, I feel your pain, haha.  I always want to keep tweaking my old stuff.  We are evolving as writers every day, after all.  After some point, I force myself to look back and say "I can't keep poking at it anymore, as it wouldn't be the same thing."

I remember completely reworking some old stuff I'd found.  The end result, before posting, was palatable to me, but it wasn't nearly what it was.  Nor was it what it would have been, had I started over from scratch.  The experience was unique, and not something I'd have changed, even looking back on it now.

At any rate, best of luck to you, and welcome back!

Modifié par Seracen, 05 mars 2013 - 02:46 .

[Ignis Mors]

Seracen wrote...

dpMeggers wrote...

 Hi Everybody! (Hi to folks who may remember me. Hi to folks who have no idea that I ever existed. Hi's all around. But not Highs. Unless you want one. But I'm not providing those...)

I'm back (again...for good this time! I think...). I took a (fairly long) hiatus from writing fanfic and also from reading it. Sorry! I have so much catching up to do! You've all written so much since I stopped reading.

So after my hiatus I've decided to rewrite Conversations...again...because apparently I'm still not satifsied with the beginning/characterization/various things. Which in turn will mean that I'm going to be doing a lot of background work and edits before the next chapter comes out (and it's been...many months and counting). But I'm feeling it now! I'm motivated to write and get this story out (finally).

Oh man, I feel your pain, haha.  I always want to keep tweaking my old stuff.  We are evolving as writers every day, after all.  After some point, I force myself to look back and say "I can't keep poking at it anymore, as it wouldn't be the same thing."

I remember completely reworking some old stuff I'd found.  The end result, before posting, was palatable to me, but it wasn't nearly what it was.  Nor was it what it would have been, had I started over from scratch.  The experience was unique, and not something I'd have changed, even looking back on it now.

At any rate, best of luck to you, and welcome back!

I keep wanting to tweak my old stuff too. I think I'm on my third rewrite of the first five chapters after they've been up.
And, on an unrelated note, woohoo I got to my fifty-first review on Meus Mundus! And, OMG CITADEL LOOKS SWEET!

[Obsidian Gryphon]

dpMeggers wrote...


So running from stuff in game: the first Normandy was a frigate with a skeleton crew IIRC, and it had a crew (including marine compliment but not including our alien friends) of approximately 51. Turian frigates in ME3 have a crew of approximately 75 (in game dialogue, James, Garrus and Shep, on Menae).

In ME2 if you save the Council and respond to Khalisah al-Jilani as a paragon, Shep mentions that each turian cruiser at the Battle of the Citadel had a crew of about 300 (they lost 20 of them). Shep also mentions that the Destiny Ascension (the asari dreadnaught) had a crew of 10,000.

It's probably safe to guess that if humans and turians collaborated on the Normandy, that their ships are of similar physical size and have roughly similar crews. Hope that helps?

Thing is, I seriously doubt the Alliance would follow the same military creed as the Turians. That admiral in ME 1 made some comment on following Turian designs on the Normandy, indicating, that the Alliance do things differently. The Normandy was the only project they cooperated on.

Shep said 300 for a Turian cruiser. Alliance cruiser / crew size may or may not be the same. That's what I don't really much like as in actual stated numbers for the Alliance was never stated. Inference are just as wispy as air.

Anyways, I'm just asking if 500 may be too many. I'll probably cut that down a bit. Thanks for replies.

P.S. Tomb Raider is running great.   Near 6 hours into the game and I'm thinking I'm not even 1/4 way through yet. I think, anyways.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 05 mars 2013 - 05:20 .