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[Drussius]

**MINOR SPOILERS FOR DLC FOLLOW**

I've gone through it with three characters now, and apparently the first two were playthroughs where Zaeed died because this latest one was the first time I saw him. I seem to have killed him a lot. But I had to admit I got a kick out of Zaeed and Garrus, through the course of my party the third time, setting up booby traps all over my apartment. The two of them discussing it over the course of the thing was actually very amusing to me.

And Tali cannot hold her liquor... Just saying...

"Tali here was just acting out the Normandy"

"I may have some video... And that video may already have six million extranet hits and a fan site."

[dpMeggers]

 A question! (and also the lead up to it)
At the beginning of ME3, Shep has been under house arrest for 6 months. At the end of the Mass Effect: Conviction comic (link for those who haven't seen it, if they want to have a look), we can see that Shep has turned him/herself in and is sitting in the Brig of the Normandy. Now it's clear that Joker also turned himself in with Shepard and the Normandy (and might be the only one). So my question is: does it seem likely that Joker is also in the brig with Shep? Or is it more likely that he piloted the Normandy from Omega to Earth and then was 'arrested' there?

(Also: Where the hell is the brig? Is it like the washroom facilities on the SR1 - implied to be there but not visible in game? What level do you think it would be on?)

[Obsidian Gryphon]

* I think Joker piloted the Normandy back to Earth. That he was sitting in with Shep was likely Hcakett's orders.

* Heh...the Normandy brig could be no more than a box. I wouldn't say it's on the command deck or the crew deck so it's probably somewhere near the shuttle bay.

[hot_heart]

Hmm, that comic looks bad. So much that I wouldn't like to consider it canon. Looks more like the 'Shepard as a prisoner' thing was thrown in for nothing more than dramatic impact. I can't really see any sense to that order of events.

Though, if you're going to run with it, I suppose Joker would've been detained as well. I imagine the brig must be down in the shuttle bay area somewhere?

[Seracen]

Unfortunately, it strains credulity to add much of the book content to canon. The quality and flow of the story do not stay consistent. Having said that, I can see them letting off the best pilot in the galaxy for "just following CO's orders."

[dpMeggers]

Headcanon time! / Question of the day

So what do you think Mr. Illusive had the Lazarus/Normandy SR2 crew doing before the SR2 was finished and Shep woke up?

[Ignis Mors]

dpMeggers wrote...

Headcanon time! / Question of the day

So what do you think Mr. Illusive had the Lazarus/Normandy SR2 crew doing before the SR2 was finished and Shep woke up?

Wait for Shep to wake up/investigate disappearinig colonies

[Obsidian Gryphon]

dpMeggers wrote...

Headcanon time! / Question of the day

So what do you think Mr. Illusive had the Lazarus/Normandy SR2 crew doing before the SR2 was finished and Shep woke up?

Doing what they were good at (pilot/medic/engineering) though he would make sure they were only involved with the Normandy project and no contact with any other Cerberus cells.

[fainmaca]

dpMeggers wrote...

Headcanon time! / Question of the day

So what do you think Mr. Illusive had the Lazarus/Normandy SR2 crew doing before the SR2 was finished and Shep woke up?

TBH, I don't think there was much of the Lazarus cell beyond the medical staff working on Shepard and the engineers/scientists working on the SR-2 until it looked like Shep was going to pull through (from the context of Miranda's progress reports on Lazarus station). After that, it would make sense for TIM to start pulling everyone together, but I don't think the Lazarus 'crew' we have in ME2 existed per se until very shortly before we wake up.

If you mean what were the individuals doing, I imagine that Chakwas didn't join up until she heard that shepard was alive again (she insists she's not working for Cerberus, just for you, so she probably only signed up once she had conclusive proof. What that proof may have been, I cannot say), so very soon before ME2. Joker says that he joined Cerberus because the Alliance grounded him, so that could happen at any point between you dying and waking, though it likely took more than a few months. Frankly, I think Joker would have also needed convincing that you were being revived, so he likely wasn't brought over to Cerberus until about the same time as Chakwas. The others can be reasoned along similar routes.

[fainmaca]

Aaaand now I've just had an idea for Joker and Chakwas being brought to Shep's bedside to persuade them. Could be a good, touching scene, actually.

[dpMeggers]

fainmaca wrote...

Aaaand now I've just had an idea for Joker and Chakwas being brought to Shep's bedside to persuade them. Could be a good, touching scene, actually.

I'd apologize for putting the thoughts in your head, but I think I'd like to read that.

Modifié par dpMeggers, 11 mars 2013 - 11:14 .

[nrobbiec]

I need help understanding biotics.

I know Kaidan is a sentinel, but in Citadel it seemed to be a big deal that he could reave. Can someone give me the gist of biotic abilities lore-wise. Also is it possible for a biotic with enough training to advance like from sentinel to I don't know whatever ranks there are?

Yeah, it's pretty obvious I don't play as a biotic Shep huh

[dpMeggers]

nrobbiec wrote...

I need help understanding biotics.

I know Kaidan is a sentinel, but in Citadel it seemed to be a big deal that he could reave. Can someone give me the gist of biotic abilities lore-wise. Also is it possible for a biotic with enough training to advance like from sentinel to I don't know whatever ranks there are?

Yeah, it's pretty obvious I don't play as a biotic Shep huh

A sentinel is a biotic who also uses tech abilities. A vanguard is a biotic who is also specializes in combat. An adept is a biotic who really just uses biotic abilities in combat.

Any biotic could specialize in any of the three classes. It's probably a question of what the biotic wants to do. A biotic who is technically minded (eg: Kaidan) would likely specialize as a sentinel.

It's a big deal that Kaidan can reave because the only other character who can is Samara - a 700 year old asari Justicar. Also it's sort of a really weird ability if you read the description. It damages the victim's nervous system and like...steals their life force. 

If you're looking for more intensive lore you can read the Mass Effect Wiki pages for Reave and Biotics.

Our asari friendly members would probably also be able to give you a good idea of canon and fanon biotic abilities.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

^ I actually have this idea that Asari who use reave might have a higher chance of bearing AY kids.

[gisle]

Didn't they remove the life-sucking attributes of it in ME3?

[dpMeggers]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

^ I actually have this idea that Asari who use reave might have a higher chance of bearing AY kids.

Makes sense. It is kind of a vampiric ability.

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Didn't they remove the life-sucking attributes of it in ME3?

The description of Reave as a ME3 ability is "Drain target's health and disrupt their resistances, receiving increased damage protection while this power is in effect." 

Gameplay-wise it's a bit different but I think the basic idea of the ability hasn't changed.

[fainmaca]

dpMeggers wrote...
I'd apologize for putting the thoughts in your head, but I think I'd like to read that.

Gimme a couple of hours.

As for the Reave thing, I actually hesitate to include the life-draining facet of it, as that falls into the space magic category for me. Rather, I just headcanon it as a very precise biotic attack that ravages the nervous system. Like if you focused a Warp attack to attack only the internal wiring of a mech. Of course, this requires unparalleled focus and would be very rare among even proficient biotics. Jack, while powerful, is nowhere near refined enough with her abilities to do it (she's the biotic equivalent of a wrecking ball, while Samara I would compare to a powerful cutting laser), so it makes sense that only a Justicar of several centuries could do it.

Kaidan strikes me as a patient, deliberate kind of guy, so I guess with a lot of work he could have gained the control to do it.

As for biotic 'ranks', I wouldn't say there are any (though William Deitz might disagree), but you have the aforementioned Vanguard, Sentinel and Adept, with Adept being the only fully biotics-focused specialisation. I think it fair to say that Vanguard and Sentinel are not as potent as Adept, being that they've got other abilities to train in aside from their biotics.

[dpMeggers]

fainmaca wrote...

dpMeggers wrote...
I'd apologize for putting the thoughts in your head, but I think I'd like to read that.

Gimme a couple of hours.

As for the Reave thing, I actually hesitate to include the life-draining facet of it, as that falls into the space magic category for me. Rather, I just headcanon it as a very precise biotic attack that ravages the nervous system. Like if you focused a Warp attack to attack only the internal wiring of a mech. Of course, this requires unparalleled focus and would be very rare among even proficient biotics. Jack, while powerful, is nowhere near refined enough with her abilities to do it (she's the biotic equivalent of a wrecking ball, while Samara I would compare to a powerful cutting laser), so it makes sense that only a Justicar of several centuries could do it.

Kaidan strikes me as a patient, deliberate kind of guy, so I guess with a lot of work he could have gained the control to do it.

As for biotic 'ranks', I wouldn't say there are any (though William Deitz might disagree), but you have the aforementioned Vanguard, Sentinel and Adept, with Adept being the only fully biotics-focused specialisation. I think it fair to say that Vanguard and Sentinel are not as potent as Adept, being that they've got other abilities to train in aside from their biotics.

*Waits patiently*

Well if one were to argue that biotic abilities are the result of a mastery of electromagnetic/dark energy, and the energy in one's nervous system is (basically) electrical energy, one could sort of...fudge how the whole life-draining thing works - steal all their electrolytes or something. If one were so inclined. Which I'm not. I see it as more of a biotic equivalent to Tali's Energy Drain ability, where she steals barriers/shields/armor/mech health in order to boost her own shields. Both are useful game mechanics but sort of difficult to reason how they work in 'reality'. As you said - space magic.

Some people might consider implants to be ranks? They would be horribly, horribly wrong, but it's a possibility.
Known human implants run from L1 to L5 - this has nothing to do with the strength of the biotic, just what implant they recieved. L1s being the first to be developed and used, L5 being the ones used in Shepard's reconstruction (and were highly experimental from the sounds of it). As far as implants go, L1s are the weakest, L2s are stronger than L3s but they're less stable (hence Kaidan's side effects). We don't know much about L4s or L5s and their variants, although if I were to hazard a guess I'd say they get progressively more powerful and retain the stability of the L3s.

As far as the biotics themselves, it largely depends on the person and the race. Asari are all naturally biotic, there are some turians, humans and salarians, krogan biotics like Wrex are hella rare and there haven't been any known quarian biotics since the Geth/Morning War 300 years prior to ME1. As far as humans go Kaidan is a pretty powerful biotic with a relatively stable L2 implant. He mentions in ME1 that a biotic Shepard (who is an L3) spikes as high as he does. We can take this to mean that biotic!Shep is a naturally powerful biotic. In ME2 Shep winds up with a variant of an L5 - which allows him/her to tap into their power a bit more. Jacob is probably moderately powerful, fitted with an L3. Given Miranda's age, but also her connection with Cerberus, I would guess that she probably has either an experimental implant or a retrofitted one. Then there's Jack, who as fain pointed out, is the equivalent of a wrecking ball. She's the strongest known human biotic in terms of sheer power, supplemanted by a (presumably) experimental implant.

I think I disagree with looking at it in terms of potency. An adept is more likely to be a potent biotic, simply because that's all they focus on and only adepts are capable of producing singularities. But Kaidan is a sentinel and in game dialogue in ME1 has him point out that he's held back on his biotics for years out of fear of hurting someone, so he has the potential to be much more biotically capable (and then he learns to reave...). And a vanguard Shep who uses Charge/Nova has the potential to do incredibly devistating damage. 

I...have put a lot of thought into biotics apparently.

[fainmaca]

dpMeggers wrote...
Some people might consider implants to be ranks? They would be horribly, horribly wrong.

And yet, it made it into a Bioware sanctioned novel.
Oh and to cap it all off? L1 is the most powerful, apparently.
And BW wonder why the book was panned...

I think I disagree with looking at it in terms of potency. An adept is more likely to be a potent biotic, simply because that's all they focus on and only adepts are capable of producing singularities. But Kaidan is a sentinel and in game dialogue in ME1 has him point out that he's held back on his biotics for years out of fear of hurting someone, so he has the potential to be much more biotically capable (and then he learns to reave...). And a vanguard Shep who uses Charge/Nova has the potential to do incredibly devistating damage. 

I...have put a lot of thought into biotics apparently.

Yeah, maybe potency was the wrong word to choose. What I mean was, they are able to do a lot more due to their training. Sentinels and Vanguards could be capable of such feats, but haven't had the same focus to their training.

Like why an Engineer could hack the Omega controls immediately, but the other semi-tech classes couldn't.

[dpMeggers]

fainmaca wrote...

dpMeggers wrote...
Some people might consider implants to be ranks? They would be horribly, horribly wrong.

And yet, it made it into a Bioware sanctioned novel.
Oh and to cap it all off? L1 is the most powerful, apparently.
And BW wonder why the book was panned...

Ah yes, 'Mass Effect: Deception,' we have dismissed this novel.

I havn't read it. By the time I considered buying it (the day after it came out) there was already so much outcry that I just never bothered. I read the Google Docs list of all the things wrong with it though.

fainmaca wrote...


Yeah, maybe potency was the wrong word to choose. What I mean was, they are able to do a lot more due to their training. Sentinels and Vanguards could be capable of such feats, but haven't had the same focus to their training.

Like why an Engineer could hack the Omega controls immediately, but the other semi-tech classes couldn't.

Ah, fair enough then. I think mainly it's a question of temperament/interest? Kaidan was more interested in tech/was sort of afraid of his biotics so he went sentinel. Jacob is more of an 'action first' sort of guy so he went vanguard. Jack wanted to do as much damage as possible so she focused on her biotics. That sort of thing.

[hot_heart]

ME3 Miranda has reave as well! Though, she lost slam...

As far as biotics go, I think you guys have covered everything. I will add that I don't restrict characters as much as the game might. Like the codex/wiki says, there are three general categories, so I could see someone who is capable of telekinetic powers like 'pull' also being able to 'throw', for example. (And perhaps why you don't see Liara hurl Vega around in a singularity when he questions biotic supremacy.)

It does come down to how refined they are with their technique though, as already stated.

[dpMeggers]

I didn't know that about Miranda. The precision of it suits her personality but I think I would have preferred for her to keep slam...ah well.

Heh, I love that scene. Poor James. I don't think I'll ever let him win that argument. But he seems to enjoy the results of losing so I don't feel that bad.

In my mind (and possibly the lore, I don't remember) biotics tend to favour a single category over others. For example - someone might prefer Kinetic Fields abilities like barriers and stasis (or find them easier) over Telekinetic abilities like throw/pull/lift.

[hot_heart]

Yeah, I suppose you could make some case for biotic specialisation, whereby the most powerful are adept (lolpun) with various types, while others have trained in just one particular field. Obviously, Shepard only hangs with the best.

[dpMeggers]

Badum-tish!

Oh! And excellent news! (Mainly for my own sanity) I think I'm hitting a breakthrough on how to deal with Akuze and the aftermath from that. I've struggling with this scenario since July. It's nice to finally come to some understanding of what happened. (I had ideas before, I just didn't really like them).

[fainmaca]

Good news, dpMeggers! I finished the first chapter of the fic you gave me the idea for. Its only sitting at 3k words just now, but I have 2 more chapters planned, which I will do soon!

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