9960 réponses à ce sujet

[Tairis Deamhan]

To answer some of the questions in the last page or so:

Name - It's gaelic and not grammatically correct (it should be reversed) but I didn't know that at the time and it looks better this way to people that are used to english grammar.

Writing motivation - I completely understand there. I've been working long hours and dealing with family emergencies and it's damn hard to want to sit down and just write in the little time I've had left. I did take time to play Bioshock Infinite though so that was a nice break.

I disagree somewhat on the whole 'write only for yourself' though. You shouldn't write to please everyone, but just writing for yourself? That can lead to self-indulgent mary sues or harebrained plot lines. You have to have some idea of your 'audience'.

[MrStoob]

Seracen wrote...

Hmm, question to the audience...

Shepard and Co have started off in their journey, post Reaper War.  Ash is on the ship, and feeling awkward about her previous betrayals.  She's also there as a Council spy (SPECTRE assignment), in case Shep was indoctrinated.  Jack knows this.

They dealt with it for a while, as there was a mission on Feros, but Shep was oblivious.  Now Jack's had it, feels like Shep deserves an apology, so she faces Ash.  Thus, my question...


After Shep breaks up the fight, what does he do?  

I can see him being pissed, being hurt, or just being so tired, he no longer gives a damn.  Hell, he might be pissed enough to start a fight himself, but I don't see that as very captainly...

Currently, I have him handing her a knife, offering his back, and basically saying "get it done, or get out of my way..."

There's a galaxy to save, he already feels guilty about all the deaths in the Reaper War, and I don't think he has any more emotional lows left in him, short of the kind of things that would turn him into a stone cold killer (deaths of his crew primarily).

Seriously, he's so damaged in my story, the only thing keeping him from being a golem (or killing himself) is his romance, and a sense of duty (to rebuild what was destroyed).

EDIT: my first draft basically runs the gamut of him baring his soul, and cracking slightly before coming to his senses again.  I am trying to run that fine line between dark and heart wrenching, without leaving him too broken to get the job done.

That's quite funny, because that's pretty much what I expected them to do with Ash, the whole 'mole' thing anyway.  Not sure how you're Shepard might react to that but yes, it's a fine line as to how much the characters could actually take.  I'm sure we all throw all kinds of horrible crap at our characters for 'drama', I know I have, and it can be hard to get back from, which I have fallen foul of.  I suppose only you know how far you can push a character and how you can bring them back from it.

[dpMeggers]

hot_heart wrote...

Does anyone feel this is a little too 'philosophical' for Garrus (especially when talking to someone like Miranda)? I'm always wary about twisting characters in order to fit thematic elements, and I've been chipping away at the dialogue for a good while now to try and nail it down (the other details come later).

Garrus looks at me curiously. "That man was your father..."
     With a measured tone, I clarify. "Estranged." Even when I lived under his roof.
     "And now deceased," he adds dryly. "Seems our parents have a knack for messing us up one way or the other."
     "He didn't deserve mercy."
     "Indeed. I heard what you did. And I understand why you wanted to get away." He pauses and his voice softens. "Not that I think it was the right thing to do."
     "I seem to recall a lone turian who, having incurred the wrath of every merc on Omega, barricaded himself in his hideout, prepared to go down in some last, futile act of vengeance. It's a good job we were there to save your skin." I look at his face, while a smirk creeps onto my own. "Most of it, anyway."
     He almost chuckles, but his demeanour remains serious. "That was a different time. I learned my lesson. I see it in the mirror every day, and I'm actually thankful for that fact. Your wounds will heal but it's the rest of it you've got to overcome. Those are the real scars and they affect the people closest to you."

Late to the party but...Garrus has always had a bit of a philosophical bent. Not quite Thane/Samara levels, but it was always there, as evidenced by the ruthless calculus/dictator and not knowing what to do with grey conversations. 

Like Seracen mentionned, Garrus' speech would depend a little on the relationship between himself and Miranda. Especially in the situation where it's Shep's girlfriend and his best friend I can see there being a heavy dose of mutual respect and the loyalty of being former comrades in arms. I don't know that he would necessarily be that open with Miranda, but with everything that's happened between ME2 and ME3 its possible that everyone's just chucking social awkwardness out the window.

As I don't really have anything more to contribute - It works and I don't know how to make it better, so you're probably golden.

Seracen wrote...

Hmm, question to the audience...

Shepard and Co have started off in their journey, post Reaper War.  Ash is on the ship, and feeling awkward about her previous betrayals.  She's also there as a Council spy (SPECTRE assignment), in case Shep was indoctrinated.  Jack knows this.

They dealt with it for a while, as there was a mission on Feros, but Shep was oblivious.  Now Jack's had it, feels like Shep deserves an apology, so she faces Ash.  Thus, my question...


After Shep breaks up the fight, what does he do?  ...

Not knowing your Shepard - I'd say what you proposed so far is good. Seems realistic for someone who has had it up to here with Council/distrust bullsh*t on top of the Reaper War. 

[dpMeggers]

So looking for a bit of advice:

1) Does anyone have tips on how to write kisses?

2) Does anyone know anything about (or where I can find information on) military funerals? Especially for men/women killed in action?

[hot_heart]

dpMeggers wrote...

1) Does anyone have tips on how to write kisses?

xxxxxx

 (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Any idea of what sort you're going for? I won't be able to get back to you until tomorrow evening though.

As to your second question: what have you done?

[dpMeggers]

hot_heart wrote...

dpMeggers wrote...

1) Does anyone have tips on how to write kisses?

xxxxxx

 (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Any idea of what sort you're going for? I won't be able to get back to you until tomorrow evening though.

As to your second question: what have you done?

Ahaha, smartarse. 

I think I've sort of got a handle on it (the internet is a fantastic place, you can find guides on how to write anything), but it has to be short and almost desperate, because they're sneaking around and they really only have like 10 minutes to make out before they have to look like they weren't getting up to any trouble.

As to the second, don't blame me, blame Cerberus (Akuze). Well I suppose I should take some credit - but it's not exactly a spoiler, I'm just getting around to a death I alluded to in my first chapter. And by alluded to I mean outright stated "He died." And then I got really attached to him and his family and now it SUCKS. And I have some minor characters from the squad who die too and I'm all like 'but no I can't kill these people who have had maybe 3 lines of dialogue because they have the potential to be awesome and...and...why did I put myself in the situation where I have to write this?' Never doing this to myself again.




So question of the day! Which will be happy and about making kissy-faces and NOT about killing off your intellectual babies...

1) Assuming you have them, how do you address 'romance scenes' in your fic? Everything from kissing to (if you'll permit me to be incredibly juvenile) 'doing it'?  
Do you leave them out? Show a bit and then fade to black? Go for the full show?

I've managed to avoid romantic scenes on the basis that my characters have been children and teenagers for the majority of my fic and kissing/sex has sort of taken a backseat to "I'm in a gang and it sucks"; "I'm a biotic and it sucks" and "My romantic life is fairly irrelevant in the grand scheme of this story". This is the first time that I've written a kiss. Ever. And it's sort of...weird? I mean I've kissed before so it's not as though I don't have an idea of how it works. But there's a difference between knowing the mechanics and being able to translate that into a decent written representation of how I want this kiss to feel to the reader.

If I do manage to write the whole trilogy (which is something I would like to do with Damon, but it's not something I'm certain I'll be able to do) I think I would probably lean towards showing kisses (and possibly even foreplay) but implying sex. Because I'm not entirely sure I can write a convincing sex scene, and I really don't want to wind up writing something out of "A Beginner's Guide to Porn" or something. (And as an aside, my S/O was teasing me yesterday about writing 'Erotic Mass Effect FanFiction' - I had to laugh, becuase what I write, at the moment, is anything but).

Now another part of the problem I can see coming up for me is:

2) Is your main character the same gender & orientation as you? 

2/3 of my mains are male. I am not. (They're also hetero, which I am, but I feel like that's less relevant given the whole gender thing). And the idea of writing an intimate scene from the perspective of a guy is incredibly daunting. I'm reminded of a quote from the last episode of Firefly "She understands, she does not comprehend." Which is to say, I get how everything works, but as a female, I can't ever really know what it's like to be a dude or what it's really like for dudes in that situation. So even if the situation comes up, I'm not 100% I have the ability to write sex from the male perspective.

(The third main is het female, so she's not going to be a problem to write if that ever comes up).

Modifié par dpMeggers, 02 avril 2013 - 12:23 .

[ftkerns]

Okay, some weirdness here. Was writing up a post, tried to add a link to some of the text, and the whole screen turned foggy, like when the "add a link" box comes up...except there was no box. Just the word "Link" on the left and a Cancel button on the right. Clicking the cancel button didn't do anything at all. Hitting Esc had no effect either, nor did anything else I tried.  Finally had to close the window and lose everything I'd typed. Retyping it in Notepad now.

Anyhoo...

Drussius wrote...

dpMeggers wrote...

Hi & welcome to the thread! 

Seconded!

Thanks! :happy:

MrStoob wrote...

Greetings and welcome!

From my experience, write when inspired.  You never know when those fickle muses will take inspiriation away.  You'll find the time to get it down, even if it is at 3am. 

Thanks! :happy: Yeah, I try to write whenever something is ready to be written, even in the middle of the night, though I was able to do it more regularly a few years ago than I do now, due to various things in my life spiraling out of control. Used to be able to crank out an average of 5,000 words per night, but now there are times when it takes a week to get a single paragraph done. I've got all these ideas, characters, and dialogue in my head, but often I sit here and it doesn't make the journey from my brain to the keyboard.

Still, I'm making an effort to write at least one scene per day, and managed to do it three days in a row, so far. I'm posting some of my stuff on Textnovel.com (one of my stories there was given the Editor's Choice Award a couple weeks ago--just pasting the link here because everything went all wonky on me when I tried embedding it in the text: http://www.textnovel...Elsewhere/5349/ ), and since the site is aimed at people reading stuff on their cell phones, each "chapter" is actually a single scene to keep updates in small chunks. So, I'm trying to do a scene on one story one day, a scene on a different story the next day, and so on. So far, so good, but hopefully I'll be able to keep it up. I miss being able to write regularly.

hot_heart wrote...

Does anyone feel this is a little too 'philosophical' for Garrus (especially when talking to someone like Miranda)? I'm always wary about twisting characters in order to fit thematic elements, and I've been chipping away at the dialogue for a good while now to try and nail it down (the other details come later).

Garrus looks at me curiously. "That man was your father..."     With a measured tone, I clarify. "Estranged." Even when I lived under his roof.     "And now deceased," he adds dryly. "Seems our parents have a knack for messing us up one way or the other."     "He didn't deserve mercy."     "Indeed. I heard what you did. And I understand why you wanted to get away." He pauses and his voice softens. "Not that I think it was the right thing to do."     "I seem to recall a lone turian who, having incurred the wrath of every merc on Omega, barricaded himself in his hideout, prepared to go down in some last, futile act of vengeance. It's a good job we were there to save your skin." I look at his face, while a smirk creeps onto my own. "Most of it, anyway."     He almost chuckles, but his demeanour remains serious. "That was a different time. I learned my lesson. I see it in the mirror every day, and I'm actually thankful for that fact. Your wounds will heal but it's the rest of it you've got to overcome. Those are the real scars and they affect the people closest to you."

Hmm. Not knowing any of the background on this, other than what happened in the game itself...it sounds like the kind of conversation Garrus might have. And even if it is "too philosophical," that can actually work in favor of the scene. I like being surprised by characters. Seeing a character long established as very stoic, for example, suddenly cracking a joke--one that's actually funny.  Or a character who's known as "the big guy" or "the muscle" revealing that he has a grasp of computer programming or advanced scientific concepts. For instance, one of my characters is a krogan who's very much one of the heavy-hitters on the team, but as the story progresses, she'll turn out to be a Genius Bruiser and surprise everyone around her by engaging a scientist in a technobabble conversation. 

But anyway, now that I think about it, your scene works on another level, as well. After Garrus had part of his face blown off, and very nearly died, it would likely make him think long and hard about things he's done and mistakes he's made. A traumatic and almost life-ending experience like that really can make someone turn philosophical, even if it's only for a moment here and there.

AustereLemur799 wrote...

So I've been stuck with a block going on nearly five months. Not lacking in ideas; just motivation. 
Two days ago I had a review out of the blue (quite rare since my story has gone stale and is probably in the back of beyond in terms of what's hot) - someone asking me to please continue with my fic.

While I felt really chuffed and happy, I also felt even worse than I already do. I really wish I could deliver. The pressure of wanting to deliver and not doing so is really getting to me. 

I know what that's like. Happens to me all the time, especially over the last few years. I'll break through a block and have a few good weeks, then it's right back to the blockage again. I wish I had some advice. What works for me might not work for you...but one thing that sometimes helps me is, simply working on different stories at the same time. I've been stuck in the current chapter of my novel for several months, but I've managed to finsh chapters of a couple different fanfics and an original serialized story in the meantime. Sooner or later, I'll be able to break through the clog in my head that's preventing me from making any progress on the novel.

Of course, when that happens, I'll probably get stuck on one of the other stories. 

Another thing that sometimes helps me is sitting down and just writing something. Anything. Even if you don't use it later, it might give you ideas that you can use for a story. Get the creative gears turning by simply taking a couple of characters and putting them in a room and seeing what sort of conversation they have. Even if it doesn't work for the story you're stuck on, it might give you some good material that can be used for something else later.

But above all else...and I know this is easier said than done...try not to let it get to you. There were times when, working on a novel, I didn't make any progress for the better part of a year, but finally managed to finish it up. That happened with two of my novels, and one of them ended up being accepted for publication in February, so things can always work out even if it takes a long time.

Seracen wrote...

Hmm, question to the audience...

Shepard and Co have started off in their journey, post Reaper War.  Ash is on the ship, and feeling awkward about her previous betrayals.  She's also there as a Council spy (SPECTRE assignment), in case Shep was indoctrinated.  Jack knows this.

They dealt with it for a while, as there was a mission on Feros, but Shep was oblivious.  Now Jack's had it, feels like Shep deserves an apology, so she faces Ash.  Thus, my question...

After Shep breaks up the fight, what does he do?  

I can see him being pissed, being hurt, or just being so tired, he no longer gives a damn.  Hell, he might be pissed enough to start a fight himself, but I don't see that as very captainly...

Currently, I have him handing her a knife, offering his back, and basically saying "get it done, or get out of my way..."
There's a galaxy to save, he already feels guilty about all the deaths in the Reaper War, and I don't think he has any more emotional lows left in him, short of the kind of things that would turn him into a stone cold killer (deaths of his crew primarily).

Seriously, he's so damaged in my story, the only thing keeping him from being a golem (or killing himself) is his romance, and a sense of duty (to rebuild what was destroyed).

EDIT: my first draft basically runs the gamut of him baring his soul, and cracking slightly before coming to his senses again.  I am trying to run that fine line between dark and heart wrenching, without leaving him too broken to get the job done.

Hmm. Depending on your Shepard's personality--where he is on the Paragon/Renegade range, and all sorts of other things...any of the ideas you mentioned could work. Though after ME2, Shep might not be all that surprised at being betrayed, though he might be quite bitter about it happening yet again. I can't really see him yelling or starting a fight unless he's a full-throttle Renegade or has just been pushed so far over the edge that he's ready to snap like a twig in the middle of the Sahara.

One idea that comes to mind...if Shep is just completely sick and tired of everything he and his friends have gone through, maybe he just looks at her with such an exhausted, disappointed, hurt expression that she immediately feels like a piece of crap, and then he just turns and trudges away.

Another thing it all depends on is whether you're planning for the conflict to end with that scene, or continue. If it's all coming to a head here, it could end with Ash either trying to make amends or being out to get him more than ever. Or maybe simply realizing that their friendship is over and there's no turning back no matter if she's right or wrong.

dpMeggers wrote...

So looking for a bit of advice:

1) Does anyone have tips on how to write kisses?

Don't really have anything for 2, but for 1...I usually don't go into detail on that unless there's a very specific image I want to get across to readers. Most of the time I just type something like, "She kissed him," and move on with the scene. If it's meant to be kind of awkward, I'll sometimes write something like, "He brushed his lips against hers." Or if it's abrupt, one character sort of ambush-kissing the other, it might be a line describing her grabbing him, pulling him close, and pressing her lips against his.

It all depends on which characters are kissing, the visual you're going for, and a few other things, such as whether they're two different species. As an example, in Freelancers there's a human and the above-mentioned krogan who get into a relationship. Early on, he tries to kiss her, and obviously it would be awkward because her mouth is big enough for his entire head to fit inside.  So it doesn't work very well. They experiment and realize the closest they can get to an actual kiss is by just licking each other's tongues.

And finally, a general note on my work, for anyone who might be interested. I'm almost finished with the latest chapter of Freelancers. I keep trying to work on my novel, or even other fics, but for some reason this story has been the one I manage to keep going on, for the last couple months. Anyway, I figure I have one more scene to add, and it'll be done. 

For a hint at what will be in the chapter...the scene I finished last night has a krogan Parkouring across the rubble-strewn streets of Tayseri Ward in pursuit of one of the bad guys. And the upcoming scene will have her doing something incredibly badass. If nothing goes horribly wrong, I should have it finished and posted within the next few days....

[Edited to correct some weirdness with the formatting.]

Modifié par ftkerns, 02 avril 2013 - 12:41 .

[ftkerns]

Oops, looks like this one appeared while I was editing my post.... 

dpMeggers wrote...

So question of the day! Which will be happy and about making kissy-faces and NOT about killing off your intellectual babies...

1) Assuming you have them, how do you address 'romance scenes' in your fic? Everything from kissing to (if you'll permit me to be incredibly juvenile) 'doing it'?  

Do you leave them out? Show a bit and then fade to black? Go for the full show?

I've tried writing sex scenes before, and they ended up being so awful that I'm embarrassed by them. I don't have much of an interest in that sort of thing because it doesn't really do much for character development unless there's something very specific about the characters...something out of the ordinary that would provide a reason for their romance scene to be described fully. Also, the plot doesn't really move forward during such scenes. It's just...well, two (or however many) characters humping it out, and not much else.

And even when there's something noteworthy about the coupling, I tend not to go into a lot of detail about it. Just as an example, the human/krogan couple I mentioned in my previous post. Their relationship takes that next step when the krogan (Dakka) picks him (Quentin Bork, whom Dakka nicknamed "Quint"  ) up, throws him over her shoulder, and carries him to her quarters. He's startled at first, then just shrugs and says to everyone else, "Don't wait up for us."

The next morning, another character (quarian named Chula) walks in and finds them in bed. "Oh...uh, we've just arrived at Bekenstein and are taking a shuttle down. Wanna come?"

To which Quint sleepily replies, "We've been coming all night." 

Another example...Chula hooked up briefly with an asari who watched her win a fight to the death with a batarian in an arena on Omega. One scene ended with the two of them heading off to Chula's quarters on her ship, and the next time the POV switched back to Chula, they were in her bed, cuddling, having already, um, finished.

So...what happened is pretty clear. And amazingly, in Quint and Dakka's case, they did it without her accidentally snapping him in half.  I tend to show characters in a relationship by showing their behavior around each other, how they talk to each other, etc. The above scene is about as close as I ever get to showing the characters having sex. The romance in their relationship is more about how they show affection for each other, how one worries when the other is in danger, showing them holding hands or walking on a beach together, or cuddling on the couch while watching a movie. When readers see stuff like that, they can infer the more intimate details of their relationship themselves.

Just my personal take on the subject. 

2) Is your main character the same gender & orientation as you? 

With my writing, something that's developed over the last decade or so is that most of my characters are women (I'm male). And almost all of them are more badass than the male characters. 

Modifié par ftkerns, 02 avril 2013 - 01:11 .

[Seracen]

dpMeggers wrote...

1) Assuming you have them, how do you address 'romance scenes' in your fic? Everything from kissing to (if you'll permit me to be incredibly juvenile) 'doing it'?   
Do you leave them out? Show a bit and then fade to black? Go for the full show? 

Well, I am fairly comfortable doing the make out scenes, or even scenes involving nudity.  A lot of what I plan for in these scenes is setting the atmosphere, and painting the emotions via the senses.  Writing tender "the morning after" sequences are always fun!

As for scenes that go beyond that...I don't have too many of those.  I mean, I jokingly have several scenes setting up character frustration b/c they get interrupted.  When they finally get around to it, it's usually a "Fade to black."

In fact, of all the writing I've done, I've only ever had one scene of full on sex.  It was written on more of a dare and a challenge than anything else.  Hell, while I was at it, I ended up making it a menage a trois!  VERY awkward writing the damn thing, even more awkward sharing it, haha!

Still, now I can point and go "see!?  I can write these too!" before crying in a corner  !

I don't want to come across as crass, nor prudish, and I want such moments to have meaning.  Don't get me wrong, I like romances to resolve over the course of the story, which is why I found the ME romances so compelling.

Initially, I shied away from such scenes b/c it lead to my fic being bumped up in Maturity rating, which hampered my ability to reach a wider audience.  But I eventually realized that I had to be true to my vision.

As such, I treat these scenes as I would killing off characters...only to be used sparingly, and if it causes an impact with the reader.

PS: piece of advice from a friend of mine who writes "lemon" fics often...always use synonyms and euphemisms for the naughty bits, and activities involving said bits, haha 

dpMeggers wrote...

2) Is your main character the same gender & orientation as you? 

Pretty much, yeah.  I have written a few scenes where this wasn't the case, and I had to think about it a bit before crafting the story.  Never really had a problem writing FemShep making out with Thane.:innocent:

It was a bit more difficult for me to write the scene between FemShep and Liara (collaborative work), as I really had little frame of reference or POV for such a thing.  I kept second guessing the integrity of the scene, but my co-author seemed to like it, so I was happy for her sake.

Again, the makeout scenes weren't the problem, those were easy.  Going beyond that proved...difficult, lol! 

Modifié par Seracen, 02 avril 2013 - 02:40 .

[Seracen]

ftkerns wrote...

Okay, some weirdness here. Was writing up a post, tried to add a link to some of the text, and the whole screen turned foggy, like when the "add a link" box comes up...except there was no box. Just the word "Link" on the left and a Cancel button on the right. Clicking the cancel button didn't do anything at all. Hitting Esc had no effect either, nor did anything else I tried.  Finally had to close the window and lose everything I'd typed. Retyping it in Notepad now.

Anyhoo...
...

Seracen wrote...

...

After Shep breaks up the fight, what does he do?  

Hmm. Depending on your Shepard's personality--where he is on the Paragon/Renegade range, and all sorts of other things...any of the ideas you mentioned could work. Though after ME2, Shep might not be all that surprised at being betrayed, though he might be quite bitter about it happening yet again. I can't really see him yelling or starting a fight unless he's a full-throttle Renegade or has just been pushed so far over the edge that he's ready to snap like a twig in the middle of the Sahara.

One idea that comes to mind...if Shep is just completely sick and tired of everything he and his friends have gone through, maybe he just looks at her with such an exhausted, disappointed, hurt expression that she immediately feels like a piece of crap, and then he just turns and trudges away.

Another thing it all depends on is whether you're planning for the conflict to end with that scene, or continue. If it's all coming to a head here, it could end with Ash either trying to make amends or being out to get him more than ever. Or maybe simply realizing that their friendship is over and there's no turning back no matter if she's right or wrong.

...

Oooh...I like that (the bitter and silent walk bit).  I agree with you about resolving it for the most part in that scene, however, as the crew has far too much to worry about anyways.

Don't feel like destroying the friendship really, as I want to keep that intact.  I just felt like the Virmire Survivors never tasted enough humble pie for backstabbing Shepard, so I figured I'd have them do it again and get burned for it! 

  Yeah, I'm a vindictive a-hole....

PS: it's funny scrolling through the logs, I keep thinking your posts are mine, and vice versa.  Well, that's the consensus of fellow Geth for you! 

Modifié par Seracen, 02 avril 2013 - 02:49 .

[MrStoob]

dpMeggers wrote...
1) Assuming you have them, how do you address 'romance scenes' in your fic? Everything from kissing to (if you'll permit me to be incredibly juvenile) 'doing it'?   
Do you leave them out? Show a bit and then fade to black? Go for the full show?

I've only done two scenes that would qualify 'romance scenes'.  One was the pre-Ilos romance scene, the other a romantic kiss.  In the former, it was all vague and more concentrated on the 'melding' between Shep and Liara, the other was a sligthly awkward first kiss between... some people.  Can't really say without spoilering a fic.  The latter was harder.  I was well uncomfortable and read it back a lot, re-wrote, read back, trying to avoid total 'cheese'.  Still unsure if I pulled it off ha!

But yes, I always fall short of the whole nine yards.  Not so much 'fade to black' as, get out at the appropriate moment.

dpMeggers wrote...
2) Is your main character the same gender & orientation as you? 

No and no (technically).  I'm a bloke who writes a fem!Shep/Liara story.  I have been pulled up by a RL friend who queried why I don't really write for male characters in any of my fics.  I'm still not sure exactly why, but I'm more comfortable writing female characters than male.   Obviously, I'm perfectly comfortable writing 'lesbian' scenes lol.

Modifié par MrStoob, 02 avril 2013 - 02:05 .

[enayasoul]

dpMeggers wrote...

So question of the day! Which will be happy and about making kissy-faces and NOT about killing off your intellectual babies...

1) Assuming you have them, how do you address 'romance scenes' in your fic? Everything from kissing to (if you'll permit me to be incredibly juvenile) 'doing it'?  Do you leave them out? Show a bit and then fade to black? Go for the full show?

I have my main characters (Shepard and Miranda) go through the 'motions' from the foreplay to 'doing it'.  It was very awkward to write at first(wrote one for the first time in different story), I think I've gotten better at writing them... *Shrug*  Certainly feeling the effects from writing them. :innocent:
It does kind of feel weird with others reading it but according to a few male friends of mine they say it's erotic.
Good or bad. Kind of revealed a few things about myself. 

I'm probably not the best with explaining how I want the reader to feel about when they kiss or 'do it'.  Or expressions when talking. I need to work on that.  I haven't heard of any complaints about any of the sex scenes I've written.   Scratch that... one viewer did say they have sex a lot and the Illusive man liked to watch.  He watched ONE time!  Miranda ended *the normandy spying* real quick. 

From what I gather and what's portrayed in the movies or somewhere *scratches head* the bloom of a relationship is full of sex and never wanting to leave the bedroom.  Am I wrong?

I have of late not had any full blown 'doing it' scenes.  I have them tease/foreplay then change to a different scene.  I'll find some way to either interrupt them or move to another scene.

dpMeggers wrote...
2) Is your main character the same gender & orientation as you? 

I have two main characters but it focuses more on Miranda Lawson 'story' than Commander Shepard.  I am female and hetrosexual. I can relate to finding it hard to write from a male perspective's 'feelings' because men don't like discussing them, so I've heard.  Shepard has to be respectful when being with a woman like Miranda Lawson but he is also a man with 'feelings' of lust sometimes.  She is very beautiful.  Love her blue eyes.   I write what I've seen guys do or react to when seeing a beautiful woman.  I shake my head sometimes at the guys at work. Gawking mostly.   

I did find one Web site that asked guys what it felt like when having sex with a woman and visa versa.  It was an eye opener and have added what some of those men's feelings in my fic. 

Modifié par enayasoul, 02 avril 2013 - 03:36 .

[Bebuse]

dpMeggers wrote...

1) Assuming you have them, how do you address 'romance scenes' in your fic? Everything from kissing to (if you'll permit me to be incredibly juvenile) 'doing it'?  
Do you leave them out? Show a bit and then fade to black? Go for the full show?

I've done 3 very different *explicit* sex scenes in my stories, for different reasons - otherwise I tend to leave them at a fade to black after leading in with some teasing. Things like kisses... I try not to linger on them too much, though they can be very romantic. I like to explore the context, everything else in the moment, rather than the actual act itself (I've found describing it can be a little dry), like this (quote from one of my stories):

Liara could see everything. The deep brown of the human's eyes. The golden, sun-kissed skin, with nearly invisible scars crossing across the temple and jaw, the usual red glow almost entirely dissipated.

Pink lips, slightly rough and chapped, puckered just a little.

Her mind was blank. It was all happening so fast! This was it. The moment they had been denied for so long. Liara half closed her eyes, and leaned in.

The contact was electric.

Fire spread across her entire face from the touch, and suddenly the inhibitions were gone. Liara wanted more.

Of the sex scenes I actually did write, two were used for plot and character development and the scene would have been much less powerful without them. In those I did not focus on the phsyical act itself as much as the maelstrom of emotions behind it, what it meant for the characters, and the immediate aftermath. 

The other was completely shameless smut - you could probably skip it and not miss out anything from the story. But I think it was important in its own way in the structure of the plot: it followed an intensely emotionally draining moment between the two characters, which was itself the culmination of several chapters of violence, drama and very deeply buried hatred being explored. It was a release (ha) of all of that tension and whilst I probably could have skipped it with an implied fade to black, I hope it doesn't come across as too gratiutous, considering what had come before!

dpMeggers wrote...

2) Is your main character the same gender & orientation as you? 

In my ME story, no: my main protagonists are Shepard(f) and Liara, whilst I am male. Orientation... well, we share an attraction to females!

That said, I shift perspectives a fair bit (including to people like Kaidan, Garrus, Cortez), and have written a few DA fics with a male protagonist, and in general don't find it especially easier or harder to write a character because of their gender.

For those who shift perspectives like that... do you often find yourself looking forward to writing a particular character, in favour of others? Do you ever write from the perspecitve of characters you don't actually like? 

Modifié par Bebuse, 02 avril 2013 - 03:13 .

[hot_heart]

Agh, so many interesting questions, so little time.

Managed to steal a moment at work...to ask a stupid question (because I'm too lazy/currently unable to check it myself).

Is EDI able to function/communicate simultaneously as the ship and the robot? Not that I want her to speak from two separate platforms at the same time (agh, headache), but whether she can be the voice of the ship while the body is off-ship. I'm leaning towards yes, to the best of my memory.

I ask because I've already had Miranda communicate with EDI while aboard the Normandy, but now that she's leaving she might encounter the Eva body in the cockpit. Except I'd rather just avoid another conversation as it would ruin the flow of the chapter (and I don't want something like 'we exchange pleasantries' and then they go their separate ways). Just trying to get it clear in my mind before I plan the scene.

[enayasoul]

ftkerns wrote...

I tend to show characters in a relationship by showing their behavior around each other, how they talk to each other, etc. The above scene is about as close as I ever get to showing the characters having sex. The romance in their relationship is more about how they show affection for each other, how one worries when the other is in danger, showing them holding hands or walking on a beach together, or cuddling on the couch while watching a movie. When readers see stuff like that, they can infer the more intimate details of their relationship themselves.

Just my personal take on the subject. 

I wanted to emphasis the above as a great way to show characters in a relationship!  It really should be more of this kind of stuff than having lots of sex scenes.  Something to think about.   

[enayasoul]

hot_heart wrote...

Agh, so many interesting questions, so little time.

Managed to steal a moment at work...to ask a stupid question (because I'm too lazy/currently unable to check it myself).

Is EDI able to function/communicate simultaneously as the ship and the robot? Not that I want her to speak from two separate platforms at the same time (agh, headache), but whether she can be the voice of the ship while the body is off-ship. I'm leaning towards yes, to the best of my memory.

I ask because I've already had Miranda communicate with EDI while aboard the Normandy, but now that she's leaving she might encounter the Eva body in the cockpit. Except I'd rather just avoid another conversation as it would ruin the flow of the chapter (and I don't want something like 'we exchange pleasantries' and then they go their separate ways). Just trying to get it clear in my mind before I plan the scene.

I would have to say yes, I think EDI can.  From the Citadel DLC, if you bring EDI with you in the shuttle to recapture the Normandy.  She says been locked out of the Normandy's controls.  So I'd assume she can.  Shepard asks if she can still function.  There is a video on Youtube of this.  I laugh everytime.  "I'm, okay."

[Seracen]

enayasoul wrote...

hot_heart wrote...

Agh, so many interesting questions, so little time.

Managed to steal a moment at work...to ask a stupid question (because I'm too lazy/currently unable to check it myself).

Is EDI able to function/communicate simultaneously as the ship and the robot? Not that I want her to speak from two separate platforms at the same time (agh, headache), but whether she can be the voice of the ship while the body is off-ship. I'm leaning towards yes, to the best of my memory.

...

I would have to say yes, I think EDI can.  From the Citadel DLC, if you bring EDI with you in the shuttle to recapture the Normandy.  She says been locked out of the Normandy's controls.  So I'd assume she can.  Shepard asks if she can still function.  There is a video on Youtube of this.  I laugh everytime.  "I'm, okay."

Hah, I recalled this moment as well.

Short answer is yes, long answer...

I like to think of it as simultaneous memory, like someone would have if they time-travelled a year or so prior to their present day.  They'd remember new events as they happened, according to some theories.

Sort of how Legion backs his memory up to the overall consensus.  This is how not-Legion can act so much like Legion (and basically does all the same things, despite claiming not to be Legion)...

He's basically Legion with amnesia.

So yeah, I figure a convo with one EDI is a convo with both, just with a microscopic lag while the synch happens.  One may also draw an unfortunate comparison with a smartphone and your PC.

I think another work that dealt with this idea well was Andromeda, as the ship's AI was a cross between EDI and Cortana, more or less.

Modifié par Seracen, 02 avril 2013 - 07:20 .

[hot_heart]

enayasoul wrote...
There is a video on Youtube of this.  I laugh everytime.  "I'm, okay."

I love Vega's reaction (press 4 and it jumps right to it).

dpMeggers wrote...
1) Assuming you have them, how do you address 'romance scenes' in your fic? Everything from kissing to (if
you'll permit me to be incredibly juvenile) 'doing it'?
Do you leave them out? Show a bit and then fade to black? Go for the full show?

2) Is your main character the same gender & orientation as you? 

So far I've been alright because Miranda and Shepard are separated for most of the story (in game terms: ) and the one instance I have used is what's already shown, plus she's not big on public displays (unless it's an engine room...) I just tried to capture the emotions underneath.

I am tempted to write a 'passionate' scene without overstepping into eroticism, because I want to include a flashback that takes place almost immediately after the suicide mission, which shows the relationship at its tension-relieving high but also captures that sense of an uncertain future afterwards. It's something I'd include in the final or penultimate chapter to help tie it all together. I was inspired by the first page of The Last Wish (first collection of Witcher short stories), which I think straddles the line rather well.

I am also drawn to the idea, because I like challenging myself and I can't think of anything more daunting than...

2. ...being the opposite gender to Miranda (but heterosexual) and writing from a first-person perspective.

Maybe we can be awkward together, dpMeggers. You...show me yours, and I'll show you mine.

Modifié par hot_heart, 02 avril 2013 - 08:33 .

[dpMeggers]

Decided to do something a bit different today because there's so much to respond to: THEME RESPONDING in 3 parts. (Part 3 will be in the next post).

1. Squadmates - EDI and Vega:

hot_heart wrote...
Is EDI able to function/communicate simultaneously as the ship and the robot? Not that I want her to speak from two separate platforms at the same time (agh, headache), but whether she can be the voice of the ship while the body is off-ship. I'm leaning towards yes, to the best of my memory.

Yes. When Shepard asks how she's finding the new body, EDI mentions that the crew are coming up to her in person even though they could address her from any point in the ship. Also there's that whole Ken/Adams conversation in which Ken insists she's just on the ship and Adams insists she is the ship. As for if there's lag, no clue. I'd go with no, but that's just to make life easier on me.

hot_heart wrote...

I love Vega's reaction (press 4 and it jumps right to it). 

This is where I admit that one of the reasons I want to write an ME3 fic is because I think one of my OCs would develop a huge, problematic crush on Vega. And I would enjoy all of the awkwards  - because apparently I'm evil. (Regardless of if he reciprocates. It could work either way, really.)

2.  Perspective:

Seracen wrote...
Never really had a problem writing FemShep making out with Thane.

Well I suppose everyone has a mouth and a tongue so it's pretty easy to see how kissing is more or less the same for everyone. Wonder if anyone's ever written about Turian kissing from a Turian perspective. Because their mouths are ... strange. (Also just made myself a little sick wondering how you'd go about French kissing a Batarian - soooo many teeth).

enayasoul wrote...
 ... I can relate to finding it hard to write from a male perspective's 'feelings' because men don't like discussing them, so I've heard.  ...

I did find one Web site that asked guys what it felt like when having sex with a woman and visa versa.  It was an eye opener and have added what some of those men's feelings in my fic. 

Huh. You know it didn't occur to me before but I've been told (by both male and female friends) that I have a very masculine attitude towards feelings a lot of the time. So maybe that helps when I'm writing my male characters.

Do you still have the link for that site? It might be helpful if I ever decide that I absolutely need to write a sex scene. (You can just PM it to me unless everyone else wants it too).

[dpMeggers]

3. Relationships and Sex:

Seracen wrote...
PS: piece of advice from a friend of mine who writes "lemon" fics often...always use synonyms and euphemisms for the naughty bits, and activities involving said bits, haha

Ha! Add that to the list of things I don't want such a scene to end up reading like: "My First Anatomy Book"

enayasoul wrote...

From what I gather and what's portrayed in the movies or somewhere *scratches head* the bloom of a relationship is full of sex and never wanting to leave the bedroom.  Am I wrong?  

Yes, no and possibly. (Isn't that a helpful answer).

In real life it depends on the age of the couple, the situation they're in, their attitude towards sex (take is slow, not before marriage, w/e) and a million-billion other factors. But real life is boring - so on to fantasy life! 

Now I imagine that after ME1, in which we deal with regs issues on the part of the VS and Liara issues on the part of Liara (I heard/read that she was a virgin, if anyone can confirm that), Shep/LI might have a fair amount of Happy to be Alive sex or It Might be our Last Chance sex because of the whole Battle of Citadel/Omega-4/Reaper War thing. But it's a matter of perspective. 

hot_heart wrote...
I am tempted to write a 'passionate' scene without overstepping into eroticism, because I want to include a flashback that takes place almost immediately after the suicide mission, which shows the relationship at its tension-relieving high but also captures that sense of an uncertain future afterwards. It's something I'd include in the final or penultimate chapter to help tie it all together. I was inspired by the first page of The Last Wish (first collection of Witcher short stories), which I think straddles the line rather well.

I am also drawn to the idea, because I like challenging myself and I can't think of anything more daunting than...

2. ...being the opposite gender to Miranda (but heterosexual) and writing from a first-person perspective.

Maybe we can be awkward together, dpMeggers. You...show me yours, and I'll show you mine. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

Re the bolded: BAHAHAHAHA!!!! 

If you want and if you do write it, I'm totally ok with reading it over to provide a "female perspective." 

As for the rest, it ties in nicely with my non-rant below.

enayasoul wrote...

ftkerns wrote...

I tend to show characters in a relationship by showing their behavior around each other, how they talk to each other, etc. The above scene is about as close as I ever get to showing the characters having sex. The romance in their relationship is more about how they show affection for each other, how one worries when the other is in danger, showing them holding hands or walking on a beach together, or cuddling on the couch while watching a movie. When readers see stuff like that, they can infer the more intimate details of their relationship themselves.

Just my personal take on the subject. 

I wanted to emphasis the above as a great way to show characters in a relationship!  It really should be more of this kind of stuff than having lots of sex scenes.  Something to think about.   

This is where I get to both agree and disagree! (And hopefully not get preachy or anything). I will preface this by saying that I focus a great deal on my characters' emotions and that everything that follows runs on the assumption that emotions are important.

Agree: Sex is definitely not the be all and end all in a relationship. Real people in a relationship do relationshippy things. How they speak to each other, how they act around each other, how they treat each other, hell even how they fight (especially how they fight) are all very important in showing the reader what kind of a relationship this is. And most relationships don't start with sex. 

No wait. No relationship starts with sex. Even with a one night stand they have to meet first. Unless they're at an orgy maybe and they just sort of ... anyway this is a silly digression. Back to the point, no relationship starts with sex.

But a great deal of romantic relationships involve sex. And here's where my disagreement comes in: I feel like the 'first time' is just as important to show (if you will) becuase of the implications it has for the relationship. Generally speaking, the first time two people  have sex (of any kind), it's a big deal, because it's a very intimate act. If they're virgins, it's usually a HUGE deal. If they're agreeing on a friends-with-benefits relationship, it has the potential to be really awkward - 'hey, this is totes my best friend naked - I'm not sure how I feel about this'. If they're in a romantic relationship it could be incredibly nerve wracking for one person (especially if they are the less experienced partner) or even both people if they're not sure about the relationship, or if they're just incredibly shy. And in the Mass Effect universe, as ftkerns so rightly pointed out, we have the inter-species angle - take first time awkwardness (especially with a Garrus/F!Shep pairing, because they started off as FWB) and crank it up past 11. High school health class probably did not cover safe sex with other species.

Heck even couples who have been having sex for a long time can have their emotions during the act be important - what if one of them is no longer invested in the relationship? Then you can write about how while they're having sex they're writing a grocery list, or wondering if they should repaint the living room or have them think about the hot guy/girl in accounting rather than thier partner.

So I would say writing the act of sex (as in the mechanical - and then this part was there type stuff) is relatively unimportant but writing the emotional reaction to sex, whatever it may be, has the potential to be incredibly important - even if it's just for character development.

...And I just wrote a small treatise. So much for not getting preachy. (SORRY!)

TL;DR: Mechanics of sex less important. Emotional reaction to sex (before/after/during/whenever) important.

Edited for formatting

Modifié par dpMeggers, 02 avril 2013 - 09:53 .

[Lilivati]

dpMeggers wrote...

So question of the day! Which will be happy and about making kissy-faces and NOT about killing off your intellectual babies...

1) Assuming you have them, how do you address 'romance scenes' in your fic? Everything from kissing to (if you'll permit me to be incredibly juvenile) 'doing it'?   Do you leave them out? Show a bit and then fade to black? Go for the full show?

2) Is your main character the same gender & orientation as you? 

1) Most of the romance aspect of my fic is romance build-up, so I don't have to write physical stuff all that often.  I do have a scene that sort of qualifies coming up and I'm curious how it will be received.  (Assuming anyone comments.  My readers are a present but fairly silent lot.)  I've written fairly graphic scenes for other stuff but it's not a vibe that I think really fits my story.  My Shepard is at a place in life where she's been in a lot of terrible drive-by relationships based primarily on sex, decided for a whole variety of reasons that she's tired of that, and is trying to figure out how to have a meaningful relationship- even though the timing and circumstances are far from ideal.  Spending a lot of wordcount on random sex scenes would be a little out of place.  

When I eventually get to the real deal, I have it sort of planned out as a middle ground between "fade to black" and 
"flirts with erotica".  So lots of suggestive imagery and implication rather than direct description.  It'll be much heavier on emotional content than physical content because that's the tenor of the relationship at that point.  (I can't speak for the shore leave after, though.  :innocent:)  

That said, in most any story that is not straight-up erotica, however the scene is portrayed, it should be important to the story and/or character development in some way.  I'm not a big fan of throwing in sex just to have sex.  When I'm reading something like that it gets a little eye-roll worthy after a time- but to each their own, some people really like it.

As far as kissing goes, it's probably good to give some physical or emotional detail to "important kisses" and the rest can just happen.

2) The Shepard I write about is female, as am I.  I'm straight and she's bi, but involved with a man, so it's not that much more difficult to write.  It's not something that comes up very often, just as the odd comment from time to time.  I don't consider it fundamental to the story.

The other two Shepards I play and occasionally write about without posting are both male, and one is straight and the other is somewhere on the gay end of bi (like he's attracted to the occasional woman but mostly men).  Honestly the straight male relationship is the trickiest for me personally because it's with Tali and there are all sorts of mechanical issues there, plus lack of any concrete understanding of alien physiology.  As a writer, I've read a lot of posts on forums, blogs, articles, etc. on stuff that would get me some strange looks, because I wanted to be able to understand as many perspectives as possible, including what guys experience during sex.  If anyone is struggling on that sort of topic I'd recommend it as research.

[enayasoul]

I don't have the link anymore, don't remember where I found it. It was a blog a lady had. A collection of stories she wrote about her life/dates etc. I read it about 4 or 5 years ago but I still remember it. One guy said it felt like heaven or velvet/warm.

Modifié par enayasoul, 03 avril 2013 - 01:43 .

[MrStoob]

hot_heart wrote...

Agh, so many interesting questions, so little time.

Managed to steal a moment at work...to ask a stupid question (because I'm too lazy/currently unable to check it myself).

Is EDI able to function/communicate simultaneously as the ship and the robot? Not that I want her to speak from two separate platforms at the same time (agh, headache), but whether she can be the voice of the ship while the body is off-ship. I'm leaning towards yes, to the best of my memory.

I ask because I've already had Miranda communicate with EDI while aboard the Normandy, but now that she's leaving she might encounter the Eva body in the cockpit. Except I'd rather just avoid another conversation as it would ruin the flow of the chapter (and I don't want something like 'we exchange pleasantries' and then they go their separate ways). Just trying to get it clear in my mind before I plan the scene.

I've played with that concept a little.  EDI is elsewhere on the ship with Joker but speaks to the crew over the comm.  Garrus makes distasteful jokes about what they are doing while she speaks with the crew remotely.  Multitasking...

Modifié par MrStoob, 03 avril 2013 - 09:54 .

[dpMeggers]

enayasoul wrote...

I don't have the link anymore, don't remember where I found it. It was a blog a lady had. A collection of stories she wrote about her life/dates etc. I read it about 4 or 5 years ago but I still remember it. One guy said it felt like heaven or velvet/warm.

Fair enough. I'm sure I can dig up something similar somewhere. The internet can be a strange and wonderful place.

[MrStoob]

While still on the subject of sex/romantic scenes...

Agree that sex should not be the be all and end all to build a realistic relationship, fantasy setting or not. The vast majority of the 'intimate' scenes I write where Shep and Liara are just alone chilling, it's mostly playful banter, conversations about the missions and how they feel about what's going on. Their closeness comes through in the dialogue and it's not really necessary to throw in much more beyond a little relatively innocent "slap'n'tickle".