9962 réponses à ce sujet

[hot_heart]

Glad to see this place is still very active.

Personally, I've been feeling fatigue with the forum, in general (well, not this thread - just haven't had much to contribute) and that's translated into writing fatigue, too. Though, it hasn't helped that work has been extra busy since someone's been away on holiday for the past two weeks...plus, I bought The Last of Us.

There's also the fact that, I'm not actually sure how to write the next 'bit'. I've always known the ending, but never all the stops (especially since the whole thing grew as time went on). Part of me just wants to condense a lot of it down, because there's not really much story in 'Miranda connects with other ex-Cerberus personnel and attacks Cerberus bases'. Trying to work in the 'Phoenix' angle somehow. Essentially, I've run out of 'plot' (as is always the case).

I think I've got a roadmap for the next bit but I'm not sure whether readers will feel shortchanged, since it'll be
- Miranda encounters ex-Cerberus personnel
- Miranda plans assaults, etc. Possible respective meetings/conversations with Jacob & Liara
- An assault in action, Miranda leading her new troops
- Flashback and Priority Earth

[MrStoob]

@hotheart: If it was me, I'd be desperately trying the ram a cameo into the ex-Cerberus personnel but can't think of a Cerberus operative we've encountered who is alive or not aligned with TIM who could be used. Archer's already in ME3 and goes off to join the Crucible team. The doctor who we see implant TIM and some revelations about that? Sorry, mind's just gone off on one now.

Hm.  Back on the subject of knowing exactly where your story is headed I have hit a recent snag that's hard to pull back from, now that the number of chapters hence is where it is.  I'd always planned that eventually, Liara would no longer call Shepard 'Shepard' and would finally call her by her first name.  I'd even put a piece about it in the final chapter of the previous book that when this is all over, she can finally call her her 'Verity'.  Now its got to the point (and beyond) where Liara feels it is time, and now she uses Verity instead, I don't like it.   It was okay when Liara would use Verity in the third person, but always Shepard to her face, that was quite cute, but now she uses it to her face, its lost something I think.  The joys of impatient posting of chapters, but that's another subject. 

Rant/moan over.  As you were. 

Modifié par MrStoob, 27 juin 2013 - 04:30 .

[AustereLemur799]

Hey. I know I haven’t been much use on here, well, ever. Most of the time I avoid coming on here because I feel as though I don’t have anything useful to contribute. I must confess that I only come on here because I’m feeling a little bit brave (because of Dutch courage, yes, which is probably false!).
 
Recently I managed to pick up ME2; I’ve been avoiding previous instalments of ME games (especially ME1 since that’s what my story is about) because I’ve been worried about coming across things that I missed in my story (and therefore stressing myself out!).
 
ME3 SP is just depressing and I only ever use my ME3 disk for MP. Since playing ME2 (a safer option than ME1), I came to realise just how much I miss characters like Miranda and how I took them for granted. Don’t worry; I’m not about to go into my opinion of how Bioware may have screwed up certain characters (that’s all down to personal opinion).
 
In addition I’ve spent time reading the dossiers on every planet (something I really should have invested time in before). I was terrified when I came across something that I initially thought contradicted my story. But, hey, as writers; we invariably find ways around!  (and I think I’ve created a better storyline than before!). In case no one has tried this; I honestly recommend it – it certainly adds story ideas for missions/history and such!
 
I was just wondering if other people use the other ‘sources’ – and by that I mean sources of story other than the main quest lines presented in the game: for example, Cerberus Network News, Alliance News Network, planet dossiers, in-game codex, the comics, books etc (anything that’s ‘less obvious’ and requires more research than the average gamer is willing to do).
 
Happily I’ve found time recently to start reading stories (I know how bad it is to expect other people to read yours when you don’t make the effort to read around). I’ve kind of fallen in love with fanfiction all over again. I’m so grateful that there isn’t really canon – canon is what you make it! I have my own canon, for sure; but I’m always intrigued to see what others have come up with – and it’s so great to see that something like Mass Effect has sparked such a creative paroxysm in so many people.
 
Ha, ha; I have my own ways and ideas but I do enjoy reading about others who do it differently (i.e. romances and relationships in general) – it’s a little bit like a guilty pleasure!
 
I don’t know if anyone else has seen it, but there’s an ME3 rewrite group that has cropped up on the Fan Creations Forum. People are entitled to the idea, for sure; but isn’t that why fanfiction exists? – I’m sure that there are many ME3 rewrites out there. It’s also not just about rewriting the entire story; Bioware’s has merit, but there are plenty of improvements that can be made (again, this is individual), and fleshing-out.
 
Thanks for taking the time to read. I know that I’m not an active member on here (and whenever I do come on, I just talk general crap); but I would love to contribute more if people find it useful in any way (even if I only set an example for a cautionary tale!).

[Fatiguesdualism]

@hotheart - Yeah, The Last of Us has thrown me right off schedule for this month too. Haven't posted a single chapter this month and next month has ShadowRun!

Anyway I don't know if this helps, but maybe Miranda could have to deal with some of the more 'nasty' Cerberus personnel. I'm sure there's a couple of monsters in the bunch who decided to leave TIM and fight the Reapers, not everyone fighting on 'Shepard's side' should be an angel after all. In any case the events on Horizon do occur pretty late in the game and I'm not sure just how much time you could have realistically pass between that and Earth, et al. Sorry!

@MrStoob - It's a loss of intimacy maybe?

[AustereLemur799]

hot_heart wrote...
There's also the fact that, I'm not actually sure how to write the next 'bit'. I've always known the ending, but never all the stops (especially since the whole thing grew as time went on). Part of me just wants to condense a lot of it down, because there's not really much story in 'Miranda connects with other ex-Cerberus personnel and attacks Cerberus bases'. Trying to work in the 'Phoenix' angle somehow. Essentially, I've run out of 'plot' (as is always the case).

I think I've got a roadmap for the next bit but I'm not sure whether readers will feel shortchanged, since it'll be
- Miranda encounters ex-Cerberus personnel
- Miranda plans assaults, etc. Possible respective meetings/conversations with Jacob & Liara
- An assault in action, Miranda leading her new troops
- Flashback and Priority Earth

Try going back over the previous instalments and you won't be disappointed. You'd be surprised where story ideas can come from.

Aspects of ME3's story felt too convenient and too contrived - for instance saving Oriana in ME2 only to have her fall into Henry's hands anyway. It would be really great to see how this happened.

As you say, the Phoenix thing would be interesting to explore. Why did some leave and others stay? (to become Dragoons?).

One thing I've personally always been interested in (as a non-Miranda romancer) is her relationship to TIM. Maybe you've already explored this to great length. It's just that I've been adding TIM into my story recently with his presence in the First Contact War and it got me thinking more than I usually do (if that's possible  - all I do is stress!).

On that note; I was wondering if anyone here is really developing TIM's character. Currently I'm investigating events of Mass Effect: Evolution where Desolas is trying to turn the turian race into meta-turians and TIM is interesting because he indirectly interacts with a Reaper device. I'm also drawing on Shadow Broker dossiers to add to his story.

I'd be grateful for any discussion about TIM since I don't know a whole lot about him.

Funny how we draw on stuff, huh?

[AustereLemur799]

Another thing I was wondering is how many people here frequently tour the story threads on the BSN?

Do you think that we, as writers, think more about certain issues than other people? Do you ever come across people you think are naive or innocent in their knowledge? - Or is just that we come up with our own answers/theories to things that other people haven't even comprehended yet?

[Seracen]

I dunno, I am used to dealing with all sorts of people with all sorts of ideologies and intellects. It affects my writing, in that I don't shy away from advanced concepts or terms, but couch it in a way that should be universally understood.  To be fair, sometimes I chide some of the philistines in my life, but I am humbled by those whose wheelhouse eclipses my own.  We each have our expertise, so it isn't a sense of superiority/inferioirity.

Of course, I don't exactly discuss the vagaries of life all that often in writing. The craziest I ever got with my stories was a time paradox dilemma. Simply put, a black hole explosion started in the future and ended in the past, causing all sorts of shenanigans (self fulfilling prophecies notwithstanding).

It's reasons like this that I am comfy with AU of every type. Furthermore, I think it's that quality that allows me to come up with my own ways to react to things, or headcanoning if needed. Each of us have their own mechanisms for this as well.

Furthermore, it's why I considered writing my AU Shep meeting my other AU Shep. The idea intrigues me. What's holding me back is keeping it from being cheap, contrived, or convoluted. I think that's more offensive than challenging a reader to comprehend something they've never considered before.

At the end of the day, I believe in learning something through the media I partake of. I learned vocab through reading; I learned morality through the stories I read, the movies I watched, as a child. Ofttimes, these things challenged me, perhaps I wouldn't understand things for years hence, and that's okay; b/c it's all a growing experience.

I certainly agree with you that writers do this a lot, however. If you think about it, we are creating worlds with each story concept, multiple in fact. We then deem the worthiness of any of these worlds, and of the possible outcomes, and go with what we consider best. We weigh the value of our characters' lives and fates with every story we create.

As such, it isn't uncommon to have a broader sense of ideology and comprehension. Not that we are less naive or innocent than our readers, just that we've (potentially) considered more and varied angles before they have gotten a chance to (and not even, in many cases).

Modifié par Seracen, 28 juin 2013 - 08:27 .

[MrStoob]

IMHO broadly speaking, creative sorts of any kind will be open minded, full of ideas, knowledgeable, at least in their field anyway, willing to research or ponder to get the nub of what they want to express. That doesn't mean though that those who are happier to absorb than create are without these skills/drives. If honest, it takes a certain 'ego' (and bravery!) to create something and say, "I think what I have created is good, what do you think?"

@Seracen: I did a meeting of the Shepards for the 'All your Shepards' thread. That was fun. My most paragon Verity Shepard and most renegade Vanity Shepard discussing some of their decisions. The circumstance of their meeting is a bit vague and unexplained but that wasn't really the point of the exercise.

Vanity "Aaah we didn't have time for that, Saren needed to be stopped. So I got that krogan out of the way, we set the ordinance and boom, job done."
Verity "'That krogan'?"
Vanity "What? What's the big deal over some krogan merc?"

[hot_heart]

Thanks for the suggestions/support, guys!
That's another thing I forgot to mention, Fatiguesdualism! I can't really stretch the story much further until Priority Earth is meant to happen. That's partly why I think the 'assaulting Cerberus bases' stuff needs to be more of a concise 'update' of recent events. I just need to show her in a happier place, leading a team, really.

AustereLemur799 wrote...

Another thing I was wondering is how many people here frequently tour the story threads on the BSN?

Do you think that we, as writers, think more about certain issues than other people? Do you ever come across people you think are naive or innocent in their knowledge? - Or is just that we come up with our own answers/theories to things that other people haven't even comprehended yet?

I steer clear for the most part.

There is the old maxim/saying of 'bring me solutions, not problems' that I believe is a very good approach for writing (or just creative work, in general). The problem with BSN is that it is, by and large, only capable of the latter. It's just threads of picking apart things and then people going "Well, actually ME1 was rubbish" or "ME2 is when the series starting going wrong because blah blah". The same old rubbish, day in day out.

I can't believe there are so many people who don't know what constructive criticism means, and these are usually the ones that then moan when "BioWare don't listen." Obviously, I'm generalising a great deal, but it's really hard to find the decent discussion in among all the rubbish. I just don't think it's worth the effort.

Along with that, games are their own thing. There are a multitude of reasons why a game has to be a certain way, while a story doesn't; which can be hard to spot if you're just discussing the games. You might find some interesting ideas somewhere around the story forums, but I think a thread like this has many more open-minded thinkers. People like Seracen or lillitheris (only to name a couple), for example.

/endrant

[Derftin]

I've been thinking of writing a fanfiction, only problem is, my writing is...not up to par.
I don't think I could hold a long story down, so any advice?
Should I practice by just writing short stories for myself, and then try uploading as I get better? Uh, sorry if this is off topic.

[hot_heart]

I'd say that's a good way to go. It's pretty much how every professional author begins. Don't forget, we're happy to help with critique if you need it! Someone's got to read it sometime.

[Seracen]

@ hot_heart: Thanks for the compliment!

I agree though, constructive criticism is a difficult beast, and even rarer to see through the mire of plain-old criticism.

Also, we must consider that what we say we want may not necessarily be what we actually want. For example, how many people complained about how "slow" the Citadel sequence in ME1 was? How many people simply stated that BW needs to have more romances, sidequests, etc?

These two complaints are not mutually exclusive. We like and need more plots on the side with these characters BECAUSE there was downtime. I think it's becoming a lost art in gaming, is contributing to the homogenization of games, and diluting stories in them.

Concerning the focus groups that BW is using now on DA3:I don't necessarily think this is a catch-all solution. BW should have enough passion for the own stories, and demand this constructive criticism from the focus groups.

@ Derftin: Speaking for myself, I have to say my first few stories were atrocious. After having gotten a few more stories under my belt, I revisited some of those works. I visibly cringed, but it was a learning experience, and I eventually reworked some of that stuff into more palatable pieces.

Eventually, you just have to sit back and let it be. Too much tweaking inevitably ruins the final product (just look at Star Wars).

Anyhoo, there's a few resources available to you, such as character worksheets and such. Make sure you take advantage of them, as they helped me a lot in my writing process. In fact, I think I've got one of the tightest and most well planned stories I've ever written BECAUSE I took the time to do that "boring" stuff at the beginning. Honestly, it was 30 min of planning every so often, I think that's a decent exchange rate.

Most of all, as I always say, make it your own, and have fun with it!

EDIT: I just went through the backlog while looking for some convos we've had in this thread.  I just realized I've been here since page one, haha!

Still, it's not surprising, considering this thread is the one that keeps me coming back to BSN in the 1st place.  Even so, it's wierd to see that I was around for the inception of such a large and ongoing thread!  It's so much bigger than any one of us at this point, you know?

Modifié par Seracen, 28 juin 2013 - 07:49 .

[MrStoob]

Seracen wrote...
EDIT: I just went through the backlog while looking for some convos we've had in this thread.  I just realized I've been here since page one, haha!

Still, it's not surprising, considering this thread is the one that keeps me coming back to BSN in the 1st place.  Even so, it's wierd to see that I was around for the inception of such a large and ongoing thread!  It's so much bigger than any one of us at this point, you know?

I did that recently and was surprised (and quite lucky) that I was pretty much in from the start.  Was fun to see the early trepidation of people such as myself, our first ventures into FF.  It's been (and continues to be) fun!

Modifié par MrStoob, 28 juin 2013 - 08:40 .

[hot_heart]

Yeah! First page reprazent!

[MrStoob]

hot_heart wrote...

Yeah! First page reprazent!

I have to admit to only ever really reading your odd couple story before today but had a read of your latest chapter in The Space That Separates.  Your first person Miranda narration works really well, and the Miri/Ori dynamic is great.  Miri's 'acting' with the dodgy salesman was hilarious too.  Must make time to read from the start.

And you got your line in, "Sometimes, the things we neglect to say are the ones that need to be said the most."

Modifié par MrStoob, 28 juin 2013 - 10:41 .

[hot_heart]

MrStoob wrote...
I have to admit to only ever really reading your odd couple story before today but had a read of your latest chapter in The Space That Separates.  Your first person Miranda narration works really well, and the Miri/Ori dynamic is great.  Miri's 'acting' with the dodgy salesman was hilarious too.  Must make time to read from the start.

And you got your line in, "Sometimes, the things we neglect to say are the ones that need to be said the most."

Oh, thank you!

It certainly wasn't my normal style, so I'm glad I did OK. I really need to get my story finished so I can commit to reading other people's, particularly the longer pieces.

And yeah, I felt it was a necessary sentiment (and credit to Lillivati for the phrasing). Another writer was actually inspired by that and included it in their own work, and the nickname chat (remember that?!) had inspired them before that. Because their updates follow so close to mine, I feel like I have to update to give them the motivation. He writes some nice romantic stuff that I'm yet to attempt.

[MrStoob]

Haha, yea, I remember the nickname chat. I seem to remember I came up with the dubious 'Randy'...

Edit: just a heads up that I'm sending friend requests to our regulars.  Sometimes it's handy to be able to pm and with the current BSN restrictions I'm just thinking ahead.

Modifié par MrStoob, 29 juin 2013 - 09:10 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

@Austere - my apologies I hadn't noticed your post above mine.  I wasn't intentionally being rude, it was the perils of posting at stupid AM when I really needed to be sleeping!  As for the story threads, I'll skim them occasionally BUT there are a lot of 'entrenched and passionately held'  positions in there ala Europe 1914-18.  Fun I suppose if you enjoy that sort of thing, but not really my cup of tea.
@hotheart - drat my 'cunning plan' to exploit your talent for my continued enjoyment failed!  I'm enjoying 'Space' --just upset the end is nigh-- looking forward to see what you're going to do with it! 

On the topic of criticism, how difficult do some of you find it?  I'm asking because I've been reading on FFnet for a while now, but have never posted a review and I'm feeling kind of ashamed about that.  I mean on AO3 you can post a kudos if you like a story, but for a review I feel obligated to dissect someone else's baby!  A review isn't/shouldn't be a post simply going 'Thank you I really enjoyed your work!' right?  

Feel free to slap me over that last paragraph.  It was excessively whiny!

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 29 juin 2013 - 01:25 .

[hot_heart]

Those simple sorts of reviews are always nice and I have nothing against that sort of thing but, personally, I'd like to say a bit more. Which is why I want to devote some time to reading and leaving 'proper' critiques.

Saying that, I had no idea you were reading mine, Fatiguesdualism! I actually skimmed your ones and found them very intriguing, but like I said, I want to sit down and take the time to really read the work done by others in here.

[Seracen]

Sometimes I'll do reviews on the tone and feel of the chapter, if I am unable to do an in depth critique of the story.

I'll draw attention to elements that worked really well, and then suggest ideas for more of those, or bring attention to parts that I may not have liked as much.

Still, there are so many ways to write these things, I get used to all forms of writing styles. The only thing that ever really screams at me to do a hard critique is poor grammar or syntax. This problem, however, is usually ironed out as the author writes more anyways.

[YurigirlzCrush]

*waves* your resident elcor girl is back from vacay! and I missed a lot it seems. fortunately for me, i'm a total writing inept so I couldn't contribute anyway. *grins* i'm just here trying to absorb talent through osmosis! and advice. probably more of the latter.

*smiles* elcor question of the day!

sincere curiosity: how much liberty do you think you can you take with the personality or tendendcies of established characters in a story before it strains a reader's ability to adapt or starts to feel like an original character?

the fic i'm starting to work on takes place 20 years after the end of the games, and people naturally change with time, so i'm just wondering how much change is safe to work in without overdoing it? not that I want to totally change everything about the characters. in part, it's my love of the characters that started the urge to write something. but, for example, having Liara display hints of sarcastic humor learned from Joker/Shepard/Garrus... too out of character? I think it is actually predictable... my own personality and sense of humor has certainly been influenced heavily by my bffs... but maybe that sort of alteration is better glossed over?

*ponders* does anyone know how long the average turian or quarian lives? if their lifespans are human-like, Tali and Garrus would be middle aged. that would probably spark some changes too.

[MrStoob]

Liara having a sarky sense of humour is perfectly good with me. For the same reasons you say above, hanging around with Shep and co, she quickly needs to get into 'banter mode'. That's how my Liara went TBH, she quickly gets into that mode as the 'girl squad' emerges and their deprecating remarks to one another.

Good few days writing, got a chapt out for my main I was happy with, though the content was possibly a bit  but that's ma thang sometimes lol.  There's a bit of humour in there too.

I think I've balanced my issue with the Verity/Shepard thing I wasn't so happy about.  From this chapter, a mix of both seems to work well, dependent on circumstance and mood.  Possibly part of the prob was that when vocalizing the dialogue in my head, Liara has always said 'Shepard' and not 'Verity'.  Anyway, like I said, I think I've got it balanced now.

Modifié par MrStoob, 29 juin 2013 - 11:34 .

[Seracen]

@ MrStoob: I really like the names for your Shepards. Verity and Vanity so clearly project the choices they made!

@ YurigirlzCrush: I think it's understandable that the characters would have changed over time. As long as there are still hints of the old character, it should be fine. I could totally see Liara as snarky. If you want to look at it further, Liara from ME1 wouldn't exactly be threatening to flay people with her mind a la ME2.

However, the events shaped her into a different person, yet you can still see hints of her original character. Honestly, I think you should be fine. If you've played all 3 games, you've lived with the characters for nearly 5 years. As such, I'm sure the characters have been living in your psyche.

Turians and Quarians do indeed live around human age, as do most of the species. Salarians live to their 40's, Vorcha live to their 20's. Krogan and Asari live forever, it seems (1000+ years).

Remember that Liara has a convo with Shep in ME1 about this. She surmises that humanity has done so much in so little a time BECAUSE the lifespan is less than an Asari's. By comparison, that's probably why Salarians are so ridiculously smart, b/c they don't live that long, and need to finish their golas in life quickly.

[MrStoob]

It's an interesting subject anyway, character development. Just because it's not an OC, that doesn't mean they have to be static. The trials and tribulations we put the characters through will surely shape their future selves, as suggested by Seracen re: Liara. Seemed a lot of BSNers at the time were not happy about Liara's perceived change in character in ME2 but it always made sense to me, what with her tender years and all she had been through, all that she'd lost, particularly if LI. Imagine walking into that office on Illium and a naive, clumsy Liara is there, exactly the same as ME1, but an influential information broker hellbent on taking down the SB. That would have made less sense!

@Yuri: remember though, that Tali is quite younger than Garrus.  Specifically, I don't know, but she was certainly barely more than teens when we met her in ME1, from the quarian Pilgrimage lore.

Modifié par MrStoob, 30 juin 2013 - 09:13 .

[MrStoob]

Was writing today and inspiration struck! A 'plot device' that can tie in an ending, now that it has shown me the way. Yay!