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[Drussius]

I'm going to snip out pieces of this to shorten the post, and just leave what I'm addressing

lillitheris wrote...

I like this overall, I have a few further questions:

Of course, any significant disruption of stability - the recoil generated by firing a weapon while cloaked, being caught in an explosion, falling down a flight of stairs, physically striking something, etc. - quickly disrupts the cloak's ability to accurately map and recreate surrounding objects and causes it to disengage immediately.

Emphasis added. This, while understandable, seems a little too big of a concession toward game mechanics; would it not be sufficient that the shimmer becomes very noticeable?

 
Agreed, it's a concession toward game mechanics, but I decided I would work it that way in my fanfictions specifically because that's what it works like in the game, which is probably the most widely-viewed medium through which the fans would know the ME universe. While not perfect, it's a familiar component to fans of the game, and from a logical standpoint I still think it's understandable that if the field is fragile or easily disrupted, it wouldn't hold up well to significant impacts or vibration, so I don't think it strains believability too much.

lillitheris

3: As previously mentioned, a significantly attentive person may see the subtle distortion of the hologram created by the cloak, and a cloaked individual may give themselves away if they are not careful to move quietly. Furthermore, sonar mapping and certain high-frequency scanning pulses (especially common in use amongst more advanced Geth platforms) can map the outline of the solid body behind the hologram and reveal the cloaked individual to the scanning equipment. However, as such pulses tend to be either energy intensive (in the high-frequency version) or create a sound that is detectable by most equipment, if not by the ear (in the case of sonar), it is typically not a viable option to use them as a constant form of scanning, and so most will only activate such a form of detection (if they even have the equipment handy) if there is reason to believe someone may be using a Tactical Cloak in the area.

This part I’m not sure about…I get that it would be easy for the cloakee to notice the detection mechanisms, and avoid using the cloak — but that’s the point, isn’t it? It’s not to catch them in the act, it’s to prevent them from taking advantage of it, however that is achieved.

There are a few other mechanisms like laser measurement (or modeling in the case of static detectors for individual spaces), air pressure monitoring… that would seem to be quite viable?

As to the first, yes, such scanning mechanisms are to prevent a cloakee from taking advantage of their cloak. But the point I was trying to make in my personal take on it is that the Tactical Scan used by quarians is extremely energy-intensive. As in they can't maintain it for long without a severe drain on whatever power source they are using. And the use of sonar, as I covered in the last section of my original post, would prevent a cloaked individual from sneaking up on you, but would be detectable not by just the cloakee, but every other hostile in the area. So in a battlefield setting, for example, you'd be telling every hostile soldier in the area "This is my exact position. Come and get me, or ask for an artillery strike on the precise coordinates my sonar pulses are providing for you." Plus, sonar is unreliable since it hits solid objects and bounces back, but can't distinguish between the cloaked figure hiding amidst chunks of rubble and the rubble itself. A cloaked figure in the open might have trouble with active sonar or laser mapping, but one that hugs existing cover would still have a measure of protection.

And of course there are other modes of detection I didn't cover. I was thinking of it more from a person-to-person standpoint. I'm sure highly-secure areas have stationary systems plugged directly into their power grids that are designed to prevent infiltration with a cloak, such as the blue scanning fields on the citadel. I imagine that, cloaked or not, anyone walking through those doorways would be detected immediately. I was thinking strictly of a scenario where an individual or group thought a cloaked individual might be operating in their area and needed to detect them, and what would the pros/cons of such detection systems be?

lillitheris wrote...

It is a relatively lightweight system, adding no significant encumberance the the shield generator unit.

You’re probably referring to the power draw as light, but how much do the actual physical components weigh? A few pounds at most?

I actually meant both. I would assume that, as the purpose of a Tactical Cloak is presumably to be stealthy, that it would not employ a great deal of power, and that it would be lightweight, definitely no more than a couple of pounds. Simply because anything with a large power source would be easier to detect, and anything heavy would be too bulky or too heavy to make it easy to sneak around with.

Modifié par Drussius, 12 juin 2012 - 05:19 .

[lillitheris]

Drussius wrote...


And of course there are other modes of detection I didn't cover. I was thinking of it more from a person-to-person standpoint. I'm sure highly-secure areas have stationary systems plugged directly into their power grids that are designed to prevent infiltration with a cloak, such as the blue scanning fields on the citadel. I imagine that, cloaked or not, anyone walking through those doorways would be detected immediately. I was thinking strictly of a scenario where an individual or group thought a cloaked individual might be operating in their area and needed to detect them, and what would the pros/cons of such detection systems be?

Yes, combat situation would be slightly different but then again, an unshielded unit could be easily detectable via infrared or any number of other scanning mechanisms. I’m mainly considering entrenched enemies who either have already known locations or have the time to set up detectors further away from their positions. For a more variable situation I agree there’s a risk/reward, but I’m not certain it would be as far tilted toward the cloak as that… Also, a drone or even some type of a sonic mine/grenade would be an obvious choice to avoid detection. Still, I think it could work as a concession.

This sort of ties in with my general objection that one can’t think about future combat in terms of putting on some camo and hiding behind a tree

[MrStoob]

'ello. How do the peoples of ME pay for stuff? Is it a wave of a card/omni tool?

[lillitheris]

MrStoob wrote...

'ello. How do the peoples of ME pay for stuff? Is it a wave of a card/omni tool?

The mechanism is at best vague, you can make up your own.

I use a combination of chargeable cards (or chips) and ID chip (which isn’t actually a chip) based direct access to configurable and selectable accounts.

[Drussius]

lillitheris wrote...

Yes, combat situation would be slightly different but then again, an unshielded unit could be easily detectable via infrared or any number of other scanning mechanisms. I’m mainly considering entrenched enemies who either have already known locations or have the time to set up detectors further away from their positions. For a more variable situation I agree there’s a risk/reward, but I’m not certain it would be as far tilted toward the cloak as that… Also, a drone or even some type of a sonic mine/grenade would be an obvious choice to avoid detection. Still, I think it could work as a concession.

This sort of ties in with my general objection that one can’t think about future combat in terms of putting on some camo and hiding behind a tree

I was just considering the workings of a Tactical Cloak in general and what I thought was the most likely way it worked. In my opinion the Tactical Cloak would be far from perfect. I actually thought that the missions in ME2/3 where Kasumi was tagging around with you, cloaked, and no one ever noticed it to be a little silly. I imagine that a cloak would be good for infiltration purposes combined with some hacking and jamming tech, but I very much doubt that a person could stand in the middle of a brightly-lit room with one and be undetected, even if no one in the room had an omnitool. I view it as more of an ultra-advanced camouflage. Camouflage itself doesn't make you impossible to see. You still need the right situation/surroundings to capitalize. You'd still need to use cover, stick to the sidelines a bit, and sneak up on people. If they're distracted, you might be able to rush them quick without them seeing you coming, but I think they'd require some finesse and patience in most situations.

However, in my view there's no such thing as a perfect technology on the battlefield. For every advantage, there's a counter. For every counter there's a counter. A cloak can be foiled with advanced scanning equipment. Advanced scanning equipment can be hacked or jammed. Hacking can be countered with good encryption software, jamming can be countered with good electronic countermeasures or frequency modulations, etc.

My "analysis" was really just my baseline idea for how cloaks would work/will work in my fanfic, and to help the poster of the original question. But in my stories, I would never give a character (at least not a protagonist) a piece of technology that lets them bypass nearly all challenges. If one of my main characters had a Tactical Cloak, I'd be certain to highlight times when it was a great asset, but also times when using it was complete fail for whatever reason

[ebreder]

Hi there!
I started a thread elsewhere about Clarifying the Alliance Marine Corps. I'm looking specifically for training information, starting at Basic Training and going all the way through N7 designation. Also, any political information about the way Systems Alliance funds and operates the Navy, Marine and Air Force branches. I'm assuming there is no Army or Coast Guard in the Alliance, which are probably Earthbound services.

Here is my post: 

I'm writing a fairly in-depth fanfiction about Mass Effect and need some answers about the Alliance Marines. The books were difficult to get into and didn't jive with the games, so it's difficult to pull something that makes sense out of them. 
My thinking on this is scattered, I've got so much conflicting information to deal with. I will try to make my questions make sense. Any help this community can offer is greatly appreciated.
Here are my questions:

Where do the Alliance Marines take Basic Training? 
Initial thoughts would indicate Camp Pendleton in California, but as has been pointed out in other threads, it's not the US Marine Corps. On the other hand, once the First Contact War started the nation-states on Earth allied (read: Alliance) to fight the Turians. It seems logical that the currently used training facilities would simply be repurposed to train the new Alliance military. 

What happened to non-Naval Earth militaries after the First Contact War? Were other military branches (such as the Army) absorbed into the other services?
My issue with this is the length of the First Contact War; I just don't see how it's possible to put together a combined military from all nation-states on Earth in that period of time and not have it immediately fall apart once the war is over. I mean, these are humans we're talking about.
But obviously Earth nation-states are somehow peaceful and no longer fighting with each other at all anymore. The main function of the Alliance Miltary is to protect Earth and human colonies, so everything starts with the Navy. You can't get to the colonies without ships, and ground forces are now Marines. I have a hard time believing that the Air Forces would also suddenly become obsolete, even though they have similar OS's in the navy and Marines.

Who is paying for all of this?
Are colonies taxed for the support of the military? Seems like there would be a fairly significant period of time that would elapse between initial landing and founding of a colony before it's producing enough to pay out anything at all, in trade or otherwise. But these colonies are all pretty recent - none more than forty years old. 
The Wiki clearly states that "The Alliance Navy is one of the greater naval forces in Citadel space, rivaling that of the turians" (source). So who paid for it? And why did they need such an enormous spaceborne fleet at all when they hadn't even made contact with extraterrestrial life?

Those are my questions, to start. I hope one of you incredibly detail-oriented ME fans out there can help.
NOTE: I'd love if this didn't turn into a discussion about the ranking system in the Alliance. Another thread answered that question satisfactorily.

Modifié par ebreder, 12 juin 2012 - 06:35 .

[hot_heart]

Drussius wrote...
My "analysis" was really just my baseline idea for how cloaks would work/will work in my fanfic, and to help the poster of the original question. But in my stories, I would never give a character (at least not a protagonist) a piece of technology that lets them bypass nearly all challenges. If one of my main characters had a Tactical Cloak, I'd be certain to highlight times when it was a great asset, but also times when using it was complete fail for whatever reason

Yeah. Thanks again.

Essentially, I was fishing for added justification as to why someone like Miranda wouldn't be making use of one, despite her situation during ME3 (and my story). And I definitely have enough now.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

So, anyone else here give my new chapter a go yet?

[lillitheris]

Drussius wrote...

My "analysis" was really just my baseline idea for how cloaks would work/will work in my fanfic, and to help the poster of the original question. But in my stories, I would never give a character (at least not a protagonist) a piece of technology that lets them bypass nearly all challenges. If one of my main characters had a Tactical Cloak, I'd be certain to highlight times when it was a great asset, but also times when using it was complete fail for whatever reason

Yep, I think there’s a reasonable framework to be extracted. Of course it’s probably for the best to stay away from the very specifics and only talk in terms of countermeasures and detectors…but it’s definitely helpful to go over the various factors that should be accounted for when emphasizing a particular tech.

[lillitheris]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

So, anyone else here give my new chapter a go yet?

No, sorry…I haven’t even gotten my own written, think I need to push it all the way to tomorrow to avoid rushing it unnecessarily.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

lillitheris wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

So, anyone else here give my new chapter a go yet?

No, sorry…I haven’t even gotten my own written, think I need to push it all the way to tomorrow to avoid rushing it unnecessarily.

That's fine. Took me a while to write all of that. I just kind of hope that people enjoy it.

[Drussius]

lillitheris wrote...

Drussius wrote...

*snip*

Yep, I think there’s a reasonable framework to be extracted. Of course it’s probably for the best to stay away from the very specifics and only talk in terms of countermeasures and detectors…but it’s definitely helpful to go over the various factors that should be accounted for when emphasizing a particular tech.

This is a particular weakness of mine in writing. I spend a ton of time thinking about why a particular something would work the way it does or why it wouldn't, the pros/cons of it, etc., and then in story, very little of my brainstorming ever gets used, because does the reader really need to know all of the benefits and inner workings of said device? Probably not. Just a basic idea of its function and its effects on the story will do. But I've always been a meticulous over-planner when it came to my writing or RPG work. I could practically publish a LIBRARY of material from my RPG days built entirely of stuff that I wrote because "Encounter C" COULD HAVE happened if the players went a specific direction, but they never actually did, and so all of the specifics of Encounter C were never used.

Roughly 50% of anything I wrote for any specific RPG chapter never got used. You'd think I'd learn to be a little less meticulous in planning. But no one ever said I was that bright.

[lillitheris]

^ I’ve mostly managed to constrain myself to thinking about the questions, while leaving the answers for when they become necessary

[dpMeggers]

lillitheris wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

'ello. How do the peoples of ME pay for stuff? Is it a wave of a card/omni tool?

The mechanism is at best vague, you can make up your own.

I use a combination of chargeable cards (or chips) and ID chip (which isn’t actually a chip) based direct access to configurable and selectable accounts.

From the wiki  "
Hard currency can be stolen or counterfeited, so electronic fund transfers are the norm. More importantly, physical transactions cannot be easily tracked, making them ideal for tax evasion or the purchase of illegal goods.  "

In ME2 during the Kasumi DLC mission, Shepard can find a credit chit in one of the couches, and on the Citadel there's a volus complaining that a quarian stole his credit chit which I guess means that you can have individual bits of currency. Maybe they're like gift cards?

[lillitheris]

dpMeggers wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

'ello. How do the peoples of ME pay for stuff? Is it a wave of a card/omni tool?

The mechanism is at best vague, you can make up your own.

I use a combination of chargeable cards (or chips) and ID chip (which isn’t actually a chip) based direct access to configurable and selectable accounts.

From the wiki  "
Hard currency can be stolen or counterfeited, so electronic fund transfers are the norm. More importantly, physical transactions cannot be easily tracked, making them ideal for tax evasion or the purchase of illegal goods.  "

In ME2 during the Kasumi DLC mission, Shepard can find a credit chit in one of the couches, and on the Citadel there's a volus complaining that a quarian stole his credit chit which I guess means that you can have individual bits of currency. Maybe they're like gift cards?

Prepaid, yep, but I think they can be charged up as necessary. Could be used for any number of purposes…the cards/chips/chits could be assigned to a particular person, I suppose, but with the level of, ah, ‘unregulated’ commerce that goes on just on Illium, for example, that it’s possible to have anonymous chits — the source of the funds can be cryptographically hidden (which would be possible for electronic transacting, too).

You can come up with all kinds of elaborations on that, too, such as for example limits on what can be purchased with anonymous chits (from legit stores) — e.g. for weapons you’d always need an identified chit.

This is another area that I’d probably mostly ignore beyond this level of detail, unless you’re writing about some clever bank heist or whatever.

[fluffywalrus]

Drussius wrote...

This is a particular weakness of mine in writing. I spend a ton of time thinking about why a particular something would work the way it does or why it wouldn't, the pros/cons of it, etc., and then in story, very little of my brainstorming ever gets used, because does the reader really need to know all of the benefits and inner workings of said device? Probably not. Just a basic idea of its function and its effects on the story will do. But I've always been a meticulous over-planner when it came to my writing or RPG work. I could practically publish a LIBRARY of material from my RPG days built entirely of stuff that I wrote because "Encounter C" COULD HAVE happened if the players went a specific direction, but they never actually did, and so all of the specifics of Encounter C were never used.

Roughly 50% of anything I wrote for any specific RPG chapter never got used. You'd think I'd learn to be a little less meticulous in planning. But no one ever said I was that bright.

Haha, honestly, running a pen and paper RPG is honestly amazing prep for writing. Sure, it can lead to overly tedious planning(in your case), but it (at least I think) gets you a lot closer to the story you want to tell. It gains a pulse, as has some life to build off of.
Earlier in the year, when my group was still around for my H:tV campaign, I was writing pages of dialogue a day for bit characters, in case they were talked to by the group. I'd write up lore, historical events, journal entries for characters, I had a 70 page handwritten tome of rituals pertaining to Shub-Niggurath. I mean, yeah, I didn't get to use it, but it was a lot of fun writing it, and it would have been awesome. Having that eye for detail can be useful when it comes to writing a story, because that's what you do in an RPG, basically, except you direct the plot, and the players choose their paths.

A big thing for me, when it comes to fanfiction, is whether or not I can believe something. If something can make sense. The fact that you think about how things work, pros and cons of certain endeavours and whatnot...it will likely help you in that regard.

[lillitheris]

fluffywalrus wrote...

Having that eye for detail can be useful when it comes to writing a story, because that's what you do in an RPG, basically, except you direct the plot, and the players choose their paths.

A good DM lets the players truly choose, too…if they don’t go to the dragons lair, then they don’t. It might be that the dragon gets bored and eats a village instead (), but you don’t force them just to play out your story.

I kind of try to keep that with the ‘NPCs’ in the story, too. Sometimes they do something that I didn’t think about beforehand

[Drussius]

fluffywalrus wrote...

Drussius wrote...

*snip*

Haha, honestly, running a pen and paper RPG is honestly amazing prep for writing. Sure, it can lead to overly tedious planning(in your case), but it (at least I think) gets you a lot closer to the story you want to tell. It gains a pulse, as has some life to build off of.
Earlier in the year, when my group was still around for my H:tV campaign, I was writing pages of dialogue a day for bit characters, in case they were talked to by the group. I'd write up lore, historical events, journal entries for characters, I had a 70 page handwritten tome of rituals pertaining to Shub-Niggurath. I mean, yeah, I didn't get to use it, but it was a lot of fun writing it, and it would have been awesome. Having that eye for detail can be useful when it comes to writing a story, because that's what you do in an RPG, basically, except you direct the plot, and the players choose their paths.

A big thing for me, when it comes to fanfiction, is whether or not I can believe something. If something can make sense. The fact that you think about how things work, pros and cons of certain endeavours and whatnot...it will likely help you in that regard.

I'd like to think that having the experience running tabletop gaming helps my writing. Right after I graduated high school, during the year I took off before college, I was running four different D&D campaigns simultaneously for various groups of people. And I agree with you 100% that a big part of the fun was the creating of the campaigns. I never used prewritten adventures, and 3 out of 4 campaigns were created from the ground up by me in exhaustive detail (the fourth was a Dragonlance campaign). But I truly hope you're right... that the experience with gaming will help me with writing fanfiction, assuming I ever get up the nerve to post something for the public eye.

I really want my first fanfiction to be something special, because ever since I was about 9 and I wrote my first "book" - a five page story written on looseleaf paper and stapled together - I've wanted to write professionally. If I can manage to write something that people truly like, maybe it will give me the courage I need to actually return to work on my novel, which I haven't touched in over two years now. Perhaps it will even push me to see about getting a publisher somewhere to look it over.

Of course, writing for ME will be a challenge for me, since my comfort zone has always been medieval-fantasy, but I am always up for a challenge.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Hey fluffywalrus. I'd like to apologize if I kind of came off as condescending or rude in my pms towards you. Just...like I said. I'm new to this whole author thing and I kind of sucked in English class during high school. On top of that, writing that chapter took much longer than I thought it would.

[dpMeggers]

lillitheris wrote...
This is another area that I’d probably mostly ignore beyond this level of detail, unless you’re writing about some clever bank heist or whatever.

Mass Effect x Ocean's Eleven?

[fluffywalrus]

lillitheris wrote...

fluffywalrus wrote...

Having that eye for detail can be useful when it comes to writing a story, because that's what you do in an RPG, basically, except you direct the plot, and the players choose their paths.

A good DM lets the players truly choose, too…if they don’t go to the dragons lair, then they don’t. It might be that the dragon gets bored and eats a village instead (), but you don’t force them just to play out your story.

I kind of try to keep that with the ‘NPCs’ in the story, too. Sometimes they do something that I didn’t think about beforehand

True. There are a lot of ways to work with the players. My group was pretty awesome, usually stirring up some kind of trouble. After each session I'd sit down and write up how the main NPCs would respond to the happenings involving the group, and then next session see whether or not the group winds up interacting with them in some form, or if they fall into X NPCs trap, or whatnot. I always liked that they kept me on my toes...I'd write hundreds of lines of dialogue, and they'd bring up something totally unexpected, but that was incredibly fun and made it more exciting for me.

It's like, no they don't have to search for the abducted Sherriff or investigate the murders and strange happenings going on around ____, but they shouldn't be surprised if the situation escalates and one of their valuable contacts in that area goes missing. Or if some of those activities start to seep into the city.

I just try to make a living, breathing world that my group roams around in, doing whatever they do. I prefer that they keep me on my toes, rather than the other way around. I've been a victim of being railroaded as a player before and I pretty much swore I'd do my best not to do such a thing myself. Strips the fun out of it if a player can't play the role their character would realistically perform, if they're forced into something that their character wouldn't do. The story is about the players' characters, not the narrative the DM sets

[Drussius]

dpMeggers wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
This is another area that I’d probably mostly ignore beyond this level of detail, unless you’re writing about some clever bank heist or whatever.

Mass Effect x Ocean's Eleven?

Mass Ocean's Effect?

[lillitheris]

Drussius wrote...

Of course, writing for ME will be a challenge for me, since my comfort zone has always been medieval-fantasy, but I am always up for a challenge.

Destroy ending, and ME/DA crossover. Problem solved!

[Drussius]

^ LOL. Wrex goes to Dragon Age... Poor Darkspawn...

And dragons, spiders, dwarves, elves, qunari, varterall, ogres, ghouls, revenants, blood mages, seekers, templars...

Poor everything, really. My prediction: Wrex rules Orlais by year's end. Or perhaps Tevinter

[Drussius]

Maybe both.