9962 réponses à ce sujet

[AustereLemur799]

MrStoob wrote...

As an exercise in ridiculous pairings (IMHO ofc): Joker/Wrex.

I don't care how much background or history could be created in an FF, just, no. Some pairings are just not going to work or be believable. And on a social point of view, female/female pairings just seem more 'acceptable' than male/male, for whatever reasons they may be (I'm avoiding talking specifics purposefully ^^).

First off: I respect your opinion.

I also, respectfully, disagree . But, hey, that's what we're here for - to agree, contradict, discuss etc.

Don't get me wrong; I have my own story which I preserve in the overall grand scheme of things, even weathering other influences. However, I also do other recreational writing on the side which explores all manner of things (while they may not contribute to my fic; they help me to develop my writing skills or my ideas for characterisations); including alternate relationships.

I've actually read pairings that I would, initially, think are absolutely bonkers . But I maintain the belief that as long as something is well-written; I'm happy to read it and believe it (because it's so well-explained).

Don't judge a book by its cover.

The fact is that this is why fanfiction, as a whole, is so wonderful. It injects longevity and variety into franchises. I am constantly amazed, entertained and inspired by people's imaginations.

People can pick out any little detail from a video game, TV series or book (whatever fandom they're writing for) and develop it into a whole new world. No one can ever say that their vision is wrong. If a thousand people all see or read the same thing; they'll all have unique interpretations.

For example the whole Aria/Tevos thing came from that one cutscene in ME3 where Aria calls up the asari councillor (Tevos if you have an import and you saved the original council). Some people took that to mean that they had a relationship while others would've thought nothing of it - that's the beauty of differing interpretations!

I was, in the beginning, exclusively a femshep/Liara person. However, I've read romances between Liara and others - like Miranda. They were so well-written and the author had really made everything make complete sense.

While I may not (personally) 'enjoy' things like Liara/Javik or even Liara/maleshep (again that's just a personal thing; I don't mean to be sexist or anything! ); I can still apprecaite a good story.

Now don't get me wrong; there are some stories out there that are written to be troll stories - but again; each to their own (there're nothing wrong with those kinds of stories if you're into that).

As for the F/F, M/M thing... I really don't get offended by anything. It's all fair game! I know that some people were irked that Traynor wasn't available for a hetero relationship. While that was a deliberate move by the devs to give people an exclusive gay romance (likewise with Cortez); I think it backfired a little. Everyone should've been available to both male and femshep players.

What we have to remember is that our Shepard experiences are our own, and I know that people can get upset when they see things on the BSN that contradict their own visions. Either you have to bring an open-minded attitude or you need to avoid things that upset you.

But at the end of the day; our visions/ideas are entirely our own.

Fanfic isn't prejudiced. It's just examples, developments and an exchange of ideas - wonderful ideas.

And now I've probably completely missed the point of this post...  Ha, ha; I don't expect anyone to read this long post!

Modifié par AustereLemur799, 02 août 2013 - 01:02 .

[MeredithvL]

AustereLemur799 wrote...

And now I've probably completely missed the point of this post...  Ha, ha; I don't expect anyone to read this long post!

Oh, but we do! Remember that you are in an area of the forum dedicated to readers and writers of fanfiction, so we do like to read

I totally agree with you that fanfiction "injects longevity and variety into franchises". That's absolutely the reason why I even started reading and writing ME FF, it all came to the ending of ME3 and my inner "noooooooo!!! whyyyyyy!!!!" and the need to never let Shepard go out of my life I don't care what Shepard, all of them, I have many, other people have many, I want them all!! I've played paragon Shepard, renegade Shepard that wouldn't even cure the genophage and left Wrex to die on Virmire, paragade Shepard, even imaginary Shepard that I didn't really play but I built in my mind knowing the consequences of most decision in all three games.

About pairings, you're right, you can write whatever you want, but some pairings will work better in the universe that has already been established, and others, to work, you have to add a lot of elements that weren't originally there in the canon. Some people might like that, but I really don't. For me, an AU has to be quite AU to be able to enjoy it, but still has to have some elements from the original story because otherwise you're writing something else. You want to kick the board and say that Shepard never really joined the Alliance because he/she was sold as a slave to the batarians in Mindoir, and that then the first human Spectre Ashley Williams rescues Shepard? Go ahead! By all means, I'll read that! But don't make Shepard a school kid in the 21th century on Earth, because if you do, why use the Mass Effect universe? Just create an OC who happens to be a strong kid in school. What I think I dislike are stories that try to be canon, but then throw in unusual pairings, and I mean, really really unusual. I like the stories that are totally AU but still have Mass Effect elements, or the stories that follow canon and have canon pairings or pairings that would be believable in the canon, but still offer new elements to make them worth my time of reading. For instance: I decided to start a new story about the clone in Citadel DLC (post ME3) but I searched to see if there were other stories about the clone... and oh, my! I'm so hooked to this story: www.fanfiction.net/s/9446720/1/Gods-Monsters

Anyway, going back to what I was saying, it's true that we all have our own vision or interpretations about elements in the story we all played, but still even those interpretation can only stretch so far. For instance, I don't think that anyone who seriously played the games would say that they interpreted Liara to be a heartless woman who could kill people in cold blood for no reason at all. Some things are open for interpretation, but others aren't because the games made them clear enough.

[MrStoob]

MeredithvL wrote...
I don't think that anyone who seriously played the games would say that they interpreted Liara to be a heartless woman who could kill people in cold blood for no reason at all.

Oh I don't know... helping to kill her own mother, two years in despair thinking she lost her only love so violently, having only just found him/her, then the Reaper war and what happened on Thessia, then losing her love again.  Liara (post-war) could seriously snap.  I've toyed with that side of Liara, but not quite gone the full 'lost it' route, though she does have an episode or two with hallex.

Modifié par MrStoob, 02 août 2013 - 09:19 .

[MeredithvL]

MrStoob wrote...

 Liara (post-war) could seriously snap. 

Any character post-war could seriously snap, I meant during the games

[MrStoob]

I did become unstuck at one stage during my trilogy musings and ended up posting some writings into my one-shot fest instead. Within the trilogy, for Liara to become so overwhelmed would be pretty unworkable with her heavy involvement in the overall tale, so I had to temper it all somewhat for the main book and AU the other ideas.

[Efvie]

MrStoob wrote...

MeredithvL wrote...
I don't think that anyone who seriously played the games would say that they interpreted Liara to be a heartless woman who could kill people in cold blood for no reason at all.

Oh I don't know... helping to kill her own mother, two years in despair thinking she lost her only love so violently, having only just found him/her, then the Reaper war and what happened on Thessia, then losing her love again.  Liara (post-war) could seriously snap.  I've toyed with that side of Liara, but not quite gone the full 'lost it' route, though she does have an episode or two with hallex.

I’m not sure those two are the same thing… asari pathopsychology may vary, of course, especially for anyone’s personal canon, but rarely will a good-hearted, empathetic, adult human turn into a heartless, ruthless killer, especially for an extended period of time. I could see a psychosis that specifically plays on her base nature; losing tether to reality and going to extremes in trying to protect those she cares for.

(Additionally, I think that asari mental care is probably not unlike magic compared to modern-day psychology.)

((Extra-additionally, I’d like to take the opportunity to re-quote one of my favorite lines from Liara, regarding Illium: “I was not actually going to do it.”))

[YurigirlzCrush]

*waves* I have a formatting question! If you were going to have an email feature as a point of contact in your story, how would you handle it? would you set it apart and format it similarly to an actual email? or have the receiving character read it aloud or in their thoughts? or just summarize it? *ponders*

I still have time before I have to decide. it's in my outline for like chapter 5 or 6 and I write horribly slow, plus i'm undecided about whether I will start posting my story before I actually finish it out of fear that I may never actually complete it, but I was hoping to pick all of your brains for opinions on this sort of thing. *smiles*

[Efvie]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

*waves* I have a formatting question! If you were going to have an email feature as a point of contact in your story, how would you handle it? would you set it apart and format it similarly to an actual email? or have the receiving character read it aloud or in their thoughts? or just summarize it? *ponders*

Summary is always a good bet, or you can use the classic block quote. If in doubt, I’d use one of those two. I’ve tried a few different ways, and none of them really stand out as significantly better. Because writing it out as a quasi-email with maybe a sender and subject line (block quoted/italicized) doesn’t really disrupt anything, I tend to prefer that.

Modifié par Efvie, 02 août 2013 - 05:34 .

[MeredithvL]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

*waves* I have a formatting question! If you were going to have an email feature as a point of contact in your story, how would you handle it? would you set it apart and format it similarly to an actual email? or have the receiving character read it aloud or in their thoughts? or just summarize it? *ponders*

I'd format it as an actual e-mail, or describe within the normal text what was it about, but reading it aloud in the character's thought would be, in my opinion, a little anticlimatic, unless the character had a lot of things to think about that e-mail. But it could easily be confusing. I'd set it apart as an actual e-mail and put the thoughts of the character after what he/she had just read.

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

I still have time before I have to decide. it's in my outline for like chapter 5 or 6 and I write horribly slow, plus i'm undecided about whether I will start posting my story before I actually finish it out of fear that I may never actually complete it, but I was hoping to pick all of your brains for opinions on this sort of thing. *smiles*

In my experience, it's better if you start posting what you have, after of course you gave the chapter three or four readings and if possible, have a friend read it before posting to see if they spot any mistakes or inconsistencies. If I hadn't been posting my story, I would have abandoned it long ago, but the truth is that now that it's out there and that I know I have people following the story, it works as an incentive to keep writing.

[YurigirlzCrush]

*smiles* thanks! I was thinking formatting it like an actual email could work, but I wasn't sure if it would come across a little sketchy. *ponders* could always try it both ways when I get there I guess and see which I prefer. but that part is still a long ways off. I write very very slowly.

regarding holding off on publishing, i'm actually afraid the reverse would be true for me. you take followers as an incentive, for me it would mean added pressure. especially once school starts again. last semester I could barely find the free time to read the odd chapter here or there. I have a feeling school will stall my writing completely. meaning updates would come only between semesters and on holidays *frowns* not sure I wanna have followers if there are gaps of multiple months between updates, or if in the worst case my writing stalls entirely for the whole school year.

but again i'm still undecided. I might just do it and warn people in an author's note on my main page that updates will be haphazard at best.

[MeredithvL]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

*smiles* thanks! I was thinking formatting it like an actual email could work, but I wasn't sure if it would come across a little sketchy.

Well, e-mails haven't been around for that long and I haven't read many novels written too recently, but a lot of authors do include letters when the character receives one and that goes into published work, so if you format it correctly I don't see why couldn't it work in your story.

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

regarding holding off on publishing, i'm actually afraid the reverse would be true for me. you take followers as an incentive, for me it would mean added pressure. especially once school starts again.

In that case, if you feel you have better chances of actually finishing the story if you don't publish it yet, then don't. Do whatever you feel that will work for you. But you know, every writers out there, all give the same piece of advice to aspiring writers: write every day, at least one sentence. Write even if you're not in the mood of writing, you'll get in the mood when you start. If you're blocked try to write something else, connected to the story or not, that might never get to the audience. A little scene from the character's childhood? A conversation between two characters that might never happen? It doesn't matter, it's an exercise and will improve the quality and speed of your writing. I write every day while I commute to work, in a little notebook. Most of what I write there is useless for any of my stories, but keeps my mind agile and when I do sit to write a chapter, I can get it done in four or five hours. And believe me, I know what it's like not having time to write because of school, I have a Master degree in Physics. But it's all about keep writing if you're really passionate about it.

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

but again i'm still undecided. I might just do it and warn people in an author's note on my main page that updates will be haphazard at best.

Like that was gonna work
I started a new story and I did tell people in the author's note that I won't update often. First review, after just 24 hs published? "Please update!"

[MrStoob]

Efvie wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

MeredithvL wrote...
I don't think that anyone who seriously played the games would say that they interpreted Liara to be a heartless woman who could kill people in cold blood for no reason at all.

Oh I don't know... helping to kill her own mother, two years in despair thinking she lost her only love so violently, having only just found him/her, then the Reaper war and what happened on Thessia, then losing her love again.  Liara (post-war) could seriously snap.  I've toyed with that side of Liara, but not quite gone the full 'lost it' route, though she does have an episode or two with hallex.

I’m not sure those two are the same thing… asari pathopsychology may vary, of course, especially for anyone’s personal canon, but rarely will a good-hearted, empathetic, adult human turn into a heartless, ruthless killer, especially for an extended period of time. I could see a psychosis that specifically plays on her base nature; losing tether to reality and going to extremes in trying to protect those she cares for.

(Additionally, I think that asari mental care is probably not unlike magic compared to modern-day psychology.)

((Extra-additionally, I’d like to take the opportunity to re-quote one of my favorite lines from Liara, regarding Illium: “I was not actually going to do it.”))

Indeed.  I had intended to send Liara totally off the rails but it just wouldn't work really, so I ended up with "losing tether to reality and going to extremes in trying to protect those she cares for." instead.  But it all made for an interesting re-union with Shep on Illium as Liara saw herself as 'damaged' and unsure if she could pick up where they left off.

[Fatiguesdualism]

First thanks to Efvie, Seracen and MeredithvL for your responses, you managed to kick-start my brain again (I'll just have to live with the resulting head-aches! )

MeredithvL wrote...
I don't think that anyone who seriously played the games would say that they interpreted Liara to be a heartless woman who could kill people in cold blood for no reason at all.

I think it could be worked if you used the meld with a Renegade Shepard.  Maybe if Shepard is a heartless, cold blooded killer could parts of her personality not merge with Liara's?  Then when Shepard dies @ the start of ME2 and Liara is left to cope alone, she kind of sinks into that new aspect of herself?  Then assuming the Shadow Broker's mantle - well the 'dark side' is always a temptation!

Mind you I tend to head-canon that the meld can share personality traits anyway - and just ignore 'that which came after ME2' almost completely  

Bit late but ... @YurigirlzCrush - on the e-mail question I would ask myself how much information is in the e-mail.  If it's something fairly 'short and sweet' (eg meet me at so-and-so, at such-a-time) I would just show your character's response to it.  If it's something longer and more detailed quoting the relevant sections may work better.  

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 02 août 2013 - 09:12 .

[MeredithvL]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...


Mind you I tend to head-canon that the meld can share personality traits anyway - and just ignore 'that which came after ME2' almost completely

Huh? Personality traits? I didn't remember Liara ever mentioning that, so to make sure I did check the part where she speaks about asari mating rituals... and she says nothing of that sort. She does say that some traits are mixed together in the creation of an offspring, but she clarifies that she means genetic traits transferred to the child, not personality traits. And she never mentions that asari melding with another sentient could absorb the personality of the one she's melding with, she just says that they touch their minds, as in reading their thoughts. To be honest, if they could absorb personality traits just by melding, I'd thing that they are very creepy. Creepy as in "toss it to the fire, quickly!!"

[Drussius]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

regarding holding off on publishing, i'm actually afraid the reverse would be true for me. you take followers as an incentive, for me it would mean added pressure. especially once school starts again. last semester I could barely find the free time to read the odd chapter here or there. I have a feeling school will stall my writing completely. meaning updates would come only between semesters and on holidays *frowns* not sure I wanna have followers if there are gaps of multiple months between updates, or if in the worst case my writing stalls entirely for the whole school year.

but again i'm still undecided. I might just do it and warn people in an author's note on my main page that updates will be haphazard at best.

I think in this situation you have to do what's most comfortable for you. You followed my story for quite a while, so you know my own approach to it, which was to hold back several Chapters as a buffer, so that on the occasions I couldn't hold to my deadline, I was still able to update on schedule. Perhaps something similar could work for you. If you get a half-dozen Chapters ahead before you start publishing them, you could hold onto them and put up a random update once a month or whatever makes you comfortable so that your readers don't think you abandoned the story if you get bogged down by school or other things going on in your life.

MeredithvL wrote...

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

Mind you I tend to head-canon that the meld can share personality traits anyway - and just ignore 'that which came after ME2' almost completely

Huh? Personality traits? I didn't remember Liara ever mentioning that, so to make sure I did check the part where she speaks about asari mating rituals... and she says nothing of that sort. She does say that some traits are mixed together in the creation of an offspring, but she clarifies that she means genetic traits transferred to the child, not personality traits. And she never mentions that asari melding with another sentient could absorb the personality of the one she's melding with, she just says that they touch their minds, as in reading their thoughts. To be honest, if they could absorb personality traits just by melding, I'd thing that they are very creepy. Creepy as in "toss it to the fire, quickly!!"

He did say it was his head-canon. I share your view that it would be a little creepy personally,  but there's room for interpretation.

Many people share the idea that the meld creates an emotional bond of some kind. Some people point to the ending of the extended cut of the Final Breath Destroy ending where, if you romanced Liara, she is about to put Shepard's name up on the memorial wall and then stops and decides not to, even though no one could have informed the Normandy at that point that Shepard had survived and they were - presumably - in entirely different systems. People say it's because she sensed Shepard through their bond and simply knew he/she was still alive. I don't actually remember if Tali hesitated similarly during my playthough as a Talimancer , but I suppose that final scene for Liara romancers could be interpreted in that light.

I took similar liberties with the asari melding ability in the end of my fic, by suggesting that asari psychotherapy included frequent melds - of a purely mental nature of course - with the patient to help get to the root of the issues and assist in setting things right, or to get more directly to the heart of the issues. It makes sense to me that if asari can share thoughts and memories like that, they would incorporate it into therapy for the mind.

While I personally wouldn't go as far as having the personality of one participant bleed into another, I can see how it wouldn't be that much of a stretch, since it was my understanding that they share emotions and thoughts while the meld is active.

Modifié par Drussius, 03 août 2013 - 03:35 .

[Seracen]

Efvie wrote...

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

*waves* I have a formatting question! If you were going to have an email feature as a point of contact in your story, how would you handle it? would you set it apart and format it similarly to an actual email? or have the receiving character read it aloud or in their thoughts? or just summarize it? *ponders*

Summary is always a good bet, or you can use the classic block quote. If in doubt, I’d use one of those two. I’ve tried a few different ways, and none of them really stand out as significantly better. Because writing it out as a quasi-email with maybe a sender and subject line (block quoted/italicized) doesn’t really disrupt anything, I tend to prefer that.

Whenever I write emails in stories (or holo-messages, whatever), I format it thusly...

Paragraph...blah blah blah.

He read the email...

--BEGIN TRANSMISSION--
To: [address]
From: [address]
Subject:

[Body of email]

- [Name]

--END TRANSMISSION--

I use the breaks to mimic the transmission of the email.  Again, it's personal taste, and I doubt that's the "official" way of doing it.

Alternative to the "begin/end" lines are slashes (//), which I use if the data was hacked from a corrupt archive.  I doubt anyone else would realize my reasoning, it's just flavor in my headcanon.

[Drussius]

Seracen wrote...

Alternative to the "begin/end" lines are slashes (//), which I use if the data was hacked from a corrupt archive.  I doubt anyone else would realize my reasoning, it's just flavor in my headcanon.

Can you even use those slashes if it's on Fanfiction.net? I thought they blocked most odd characters from being used on their site so that people couldn't slip in spam links and the like.

[MeredithvL]

Drussius wrote...

He did say it was his head-canon

You're right, sorry! Somehow I read that somewhere in ME1 Liara has said it, as if it was a fact.

Drussius wrote...

I don't actually remember if Tali hesitated similarly during my playthough

I don't know Tali, but Garrus hesitated and Kaidan hesitated. Oh, and I'm pretty sure I saw a video where Ash hesitated as well (I don't know for sure, I never had her alive in ME3). I think it's a thing Bioware did, as if the LI was thinking "wait a minute, do I know for sure that Shepard is dead?", rather than an actual certainty that he/she was not. I think it meant that the LI had hope of finding Shepard alive. Of course, in my head canon, she is alive at that moment. Not every Shepard I had survived a long time in the hospital though, again in my head canon

Drussius wrote...

While I personally wouldn't go as far as having the personality of one participant bleed into another, I can see how it wouldn't be that much of a stretch, since it was my understanding that they share emotions and thoughts while the meld is active.

Liara says that they do share thoughts during the melding, and I can easily see them also sharing emotions. That's nice (still a little creepy in my opinion, but nice anyway). But for me, sharing personalities would be too much. Although some human couples do, when they decide to dress the same way and like the same things and share opinions about everything... but personally I also find THAT to be creepy.

Modifié par MeredithvL, 03 août 2013 - 04:48 .

[Seracen]

Drussius wrote...

Seracen wrote...

Alternative to the "begin/end" lines are slashes (//), which I use if the data was hacked from a corrupt archive.  I doubt anyone else would realize my reasoning, it's just flavor in my headcanon.

Can you even use those slashes if it's on Fanfiction.net? I thought they blocked most odd characters from being used on their site so that people couldn't slip in spam links and the like.

Ah yes, good catch.  FF.net screws the formatting of a ton of my writing due to crap like that.  This is why my primary "authorized" release is PDF via deviant art (when the story is done, anyway).  I keep ff.net up to date b/c it's easier for most people, and I prefer the coverage there.

[Seracen]

MeredithvL wrote...

Drussius wrote...

[snip]
I don't actually remember if Tali hesitated similarly during my playthough

I don't know Tali, but Garrus hesitated and Kaidan hesitated. Oh, and I'm pretty sure I saw a video where Ash hesitated as well (I don't know for sure, I never had her alive in ME3). I think it's a thing Bioware did, as if the LI was thinking "wait a minute, do I know for sure that Shepard is dead?", rather than an actual certainty that he/she was not. I think it meant that the LI had hope of finding Shepard alive. Of course, in my head canon, she is alive at that moment. Not every Shepard I had survived a long time in the hospital though, again in my head canon

I'm pretty sure all the LI's hesitate.  For the LI's that aren't on the ship, Garrus hesitates.  However, I haven't tested all possibilities.

MeredithvL wrote...

Drussius wrote...

While I personally wouldn't go as far as having the personality of one participant bleed into another, I can see how it wouldn't be that much of a stretch, since it was my understanding that they share emotions and thoughts while the meld is active.

Liara says that they do share thoughts during the melding, and I can easily see them also sharing emotions. That's nice (still a little creepy in my opinion, but nice anyway). But for me, sharing personalities would be too much. Although some human couples do, when they decide to dress the same way and like the same things and share opinions about everything... but personally I also find THAT to be creepy.

I think the mind meld thing is a slight touch, a hint of the psyche, being transferred.  Interesting conundrum, however: what about Morinth?

She absorbs their minds so completely, they are left barren.  However, this is also described as a forcefull override, rather than a gentle melding.

If so, is Morinth a conglomeration of all the minds she's absorbed?  It'd make sense, as she IS picky about who she "takes into herself."  However, that would mean she isn't the same person that she was after the first brain suck, that she changed with each new victim.

Or would you consider her the same, but each kill merely amplified what was already there?  This lends credence to the "overriding" of her victims.

This also hearkens back to the whole concept of asari mind-violation that was discussed around page 100 in this thread.  Uncomfortable ramifications, in either event.  I would liken it to the (wrongful) harrowing that was committed to the Exile in KOTOR 2, or at least the attempted harrowing the 2nd time.

At any rate, as I tend to do in these debates, I beleive it is somewhere in between the two.

Modifié par Seracen, 03 août 2013 - 05:20 .

[Efvie]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

I think it could be worked if you used the meld with a Renegade Shepard.  Maybe if Shepard is a heartless, cold blooded killer could parts of her personality not merge with Liara's?

The Meld itself has been mentioned… I don’t think there’s transference of traits; I envision a strong Meld to leave an impression, if you will, on the parties—as though the other was always there even when they’re not—but it wouldn’t actually change them.

Anyway, I think that’s actually a secondary question… for me, the primary question would be why this Meld would be happening in the first place. This comes with a stringent “everyone’s headcanon is correct” warning, but in my opinion, Liara would be very much the least likely of all LIs to get involved with a heartless, cold-booded killer.

—well the 'dark side' is always a temptation!

Leaving aside the particular circumstances, I don’t think it is. Power corrupts, yes, That can be said to be an universal risk. Still, I liken it more to alcohol… it exaggerates those flaws (and possibly virtues) that one already has. It won’t (read: ‘will rarely’) change someone fundamentally.

[Efvie]

Seracen wrote...

She absorbs their minds so completely, they are left barren.  However, this is also described as a forcefull override, rather than a gentle melding.

If so, is Morinth a conglomeration of all the minds she's absorbed?  It'd make sense, as she IS picky about who she "takes into herself."  However, that would mean she isn't the same person that she was after the first brain suck, that she changed with each new victim.

I don’t think it’s implied anywhere that the minds are absorbed, as such—any more than for a normal Meld anyway—though there’s some reference to the process making the Ardat-Yakshi stronger*. It’s just a physical overload of the brain that causes hemorrhaging and possibly brain death.


* Which I consider to be a bit of a cop-out just to make them more like vampires or succubuses, but there you go.

[MeredithvL]

Efvie wrote...

Liara would be very much the least likely of all LIs to get involved with a heartless, cold-booded killer.

I agree with that. Also, I don't really see renegade Shepard as heartless. For me, renegade Shepard is a soldier that knows that things need to be done, that knows that if you make way to doubts and emotional involvement, things could not get done, and that will push any personal feelings aside for the good of the mission. It doesn't mean, for me, that renegade Shepard doesn't have any feelings, but that he/she knows how to keep those feelings from interfering with duty. Of course, that's my take on renegade Shep, other people might believe that he/she is heartless.

[Fatiguesdualism]

Seracen wrote...

*snip*

This also hearkens back to the whole concept of asari mind-violation that was discussed around page 100 in this thread. Uncomfortable ramifications, in either event. I would liken it to the (wrongful) harrowing that was committed to the Exile in KOTOR 2, or at least the attempted harrowing the 2nd time.

Sorry to rehash an old topic {smilie} - I'll go back and read the old posts! {smilie}

@Efvie - I agree that the meld and any emotional/mental transference -as and of itself- would not FORCE a person to change. BUT if a person already thought that they HAD to change (say a naïve self-conscious asari, plunging into the seedy underbelly of civilisation?) mightn't they not clasp to the shared memories and emotions of her deceased love? Perhaps subconsciously they would start to mirror that person? Doesn't Garrus knowingly do something similar in ME1? (Those 'by the book' or 'sometime you have to break the rules' conversations)

As for the Liara getting involved with a heart-less Shepard. Emotionally vulnerable (recently murdered parent) and isolated young woman, who may be a bit unsure about herself? Add a Shepard who is b*****d enough to exploit that? I could see a 'relationship' developing there - not one I would like and most definitely not one that I would ever accept involving someone I knew! But still some form of a 'relationship' as horrendous as it may be.
Definitely not discussing THAT any further, but for the PG version think 'Phantom of the Opera' only without the love triangle, instead JUST the Phantom and the singing lass - how would that play out?

Referring to the temptations of the Shadow Broker's organisation as the 'Dark Side' was a bit too cartoony - I apologise.  I would suggest that the 'temptations' it would pose COULD warp a person into becoming something that an earlier version of themselves would call a monster.  Think how many young children in the eighties honestly said they would never smoke - how many of them do you think became smokers anyway?  I suppose the 'road to hell' simile might have been more appropriate!

Anyway going to go read those old posts!

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 03 août 2013 - 02:37 .

[Efvie]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

BUT if a person already thought that they HAD to change (say a naïve self-conscious asari, plunging into the seedy underbelly of civilisation?) mightn't they not clasp to the shared memories and emotions of her deceased love? Perhaps subconsciously they would start to mirror that person? Doesn't Garrus knowingly do something similar in ME1? (Those 'by the book' or 'sometime you have to break the rules' conversations)
:
As for the Liara getting involved with a heart-less Shepard. Emotionally vulnerable (recently murdered parent) and isolated young woman, who may be a bit unsure about herself? Add a Shepard who is b*****d enough to exploit that? I could see a 'relationship' developing there - not one I would like and most definitely not one that I would ever accept involving someone I knew! But still some form of a 'relationship' as horrendous as it may be.

These are interesting scenarios. Feasible, at the very least. In such a treatise, I’d like to read (actually I wouldn’t) about it in some detail… how it all fits together with past and the present, how the small twists turn into a larger shift, any internal conflicts and so on. It could be good, if thoroughly explored (most grimdark Liara stories aren‘t).

Aside, I never thought Liara was particularly vulnerable (or particularly shy, for that matter)… she’s exceptionally strong-willed, if anything