9962 réponses à ce sujet

[Efvie]

MrStoob wrote...

Hmm, mortality is mortality. Whether living to three score and ten, or fifty thousand, fear of death is the same and makes all things more immediate.

That’s not necessarily true, either…

Similarly the salarians were written by a human; it’s hard for us to speculate what the outlook of such a species would be. Aside from all other differences and variance, there might be significant differences between species that had prolonged their life relatively recently vs. since primordial ancestors.

Or, put another way, the only ‘examples’ we have are products of human imagination and the limits thereof.

[hot_heart]

Tropes! *shrugs*

[MrStoob]

Really, having no long-lived aliens to assess, we can only speculate as fellow mortals. That we are 'human' and another 'asari', I don't think makes any difference in fear or mortality, and urgency of genes to survive/reproduce, the really primordial drives/instincts of a life form.

[Seracen]

There's an interesting story from the Justice League comics, wherein a super advanced alien race has come to Earth (among other planets) to understand life and death.

Being previously eternal beings, they were trying to understand mortality, so they could overcome it. Now, by "Earth standards," they wouldn't die for another millennium at least. However, to these beings, it was like having only a day to live.

It's all perspective I suppose. For instance, only night eternal beings like Reapers would consider hibernating in Dark Space. For that matter, I always wondered how the Reapers perceived death.

I imagine Sovereign considered himself eternal, so how would his brethren view the death of one of the most powerful of Reapers? Apparently, their robotic logic didn't really concern itself with such "trivialities," but an interesting conundrum nonetheless.

[MeredithvL]

Well, we don't have long-lived aliens, but we do have animal species that live for long or short periods of time here on Earth. Although they don't have a civilization and we don't know if they are self-aware, studying their behavior could be an indicator of how biology presses on them according to their life span. Seems to me that long-lived animal species aren't in a hurry to do things, while short-lived tend to do everything quickly.

Modifié par MeredithvL, 30 août 2013 - 11:42 .

[MrStoob]

The life cycle of the mayfly. Born, eat, shag, die.

Though that sums up most life in a nutshell.

Modifié par MrStoob, 31 août 2013 - 06:27 .

[Drussius]

MrStoob wrote...

The life cycle of the mayfly. Born, eat, shag, die.

Though that sums up most life in a nutshell.

 What? Shagging is part of that? Really? I thought life was just the other three!

[Efvie]

MrStoob wrote...

Really, having no long-lived aliens to assess, we can only speculate as fellow mortals. That we are 'human' and another 'asari', I don't think makes any difference in fear or mortality, and urgency of genes to survive/reproduce, the really primordial drives/instincts of a life form.

This seems narrow view even biologically, not to mention the lost opportunities for interesting species! It seems that within your framework there is an emphasis on an individual’s genes passing forward, but it could well be the genes of a species, or an individual mutation. In one case, it could be useful for the species to lack self-preservation or even self-interest. The distinction of a human as an entity is entirely the result of our thought, not any natural order.

Because there’s a small but crucial detail… the gene is not selfish. It just is. The modern form of genes happens to be such as it is because before any other successful form came about, it started propagating the way it did. The gene has neither will nor purpose.

So… it’s easy to think that “of course” life will evolve in roughly similar patterns as on Earth, but life in the universe can take unimaginable, unfathomable forms! Their outlook, philosophy, their minds can be so different that they make absolutely no sense to us.

Perhaps it would be safe to say that most advanced species would indeed be similar—since we do have empirical evidence that this model works—and especially in literature it’s probably more interesting to write about blue humans than actual aliens, but I think it’s a loss in writing if one doesn’t consider the myriad of possibilities


@Drussius: I thought you had provably dabbled in the fourth! 

Modifié par Efvie, 01 septembre 2013 - 02:33 .

[MrStoob]

On a base gene level, there are few differences between any creatures of the Earth. For example, the genetic marker that instructs to make an eye is the same across the whole of the animal kingdom. Why? Because it works. I personally don't think that 'nature' would use another method just because a creature is on another planet; regardless, chemistry only allows for certain compounds to form naturally. As such, I don't think alien life would be drastically 'alien' in form or motivations. Need to eat, ingrained need to reproduce, self-protection, continuation of the genes/species.

This is all without taking into account, social, political, religious, blah, motivations that will no doubt form and be unique to each species. As Efvie suggests up there, being fully aware of your lot and being able to affect it makes things less straight forward.

Anyway!

Had a bit of an epiphany yesterday. I'd been toying with an original story but it just wasn't happening, sci-fi thingy. The overall tale is okay, but the characters/details were being difficult. Then, the other day I started penning another idea for a pointless short story, the kind where nothing really happens and it's just a few interactions between some people. The short story has now basically become the beginning of the sci-fi idea I'd had, complete with my main character and her background. I'd post the 'A Team' vid again, but it caused some confusion amongst the young'uns last time hehe.

Modifié par MrStoob, 02 septembre 2013 - 10:48 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

Am I trying to be too 'clever' (for lack of a better word -although meta might be more apt)?

Basically I've got a scene in my head (This is all AU stuff here, not intended to mesh with anything mentioned outside of ME1 or ME2) : 
Location - Outside of Afterlife's upper entrance
Characters - Shepard and Kai Leng (hereafter referred to as KL AND NOT Stupid Wannabe ) both alone.
Premise - Shepard's scurrying away from a burning down Afterlife, with a KO'd companion slung over his shoulder.  Shepard (and KL) knows Joker (on shuttle duties - don't ask ) is on his way, they also know Cerberus are coming too.  As a result, the two have a (probably verbal) confrontation that ends when Joker arrives first, before Cerberus, and threatens KL with the shuttle's cannons.  Shepard then escapes aboard shuttle.

So basically it's the end of Thessia, except in Shepard's favour this time (and hopefully less 'seriously, but...' moments).  But that whole gunship sequence on Thessia wasn't a great success (IMHO) and Shepard's already beaten KL once this chapter, beating KL again just feels cruel (yet oddly tempting) - and probably isn't really necessary at this point.  Also seeing as I've only got about a days worth of writing before meeting my intended update schedule, should I just ditch the whole thing?

PS  This is happening during Cerberus' takeover of Omega (haven't read the comics/books/twitter/etc) so is seriously AU territory here!  Plus Aria is indisposed (KO on night club floor - don't panic one of her minions is rescuing her) and communications are shot (Cerberus machinations).

PPS  The fire isn't Shepard's fault (but he'll probably get blamed for it) the KO'd Asari Pirate Queen is (which is probably why he'll get blamed for the fire)

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 03 septembre 2013 - 10:40 .

[Seracen]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

Am I trying to be too 'clever' (for lack of a better word -although meta might be more apt)?

Basically I've got a scene in my head (This is all AU stuff here, not intended to mesh with anything mentioned outside of ME1 or ME2) : 
Location - Outside of Afterlife's upper entrance
Characters - Shepard and Kai Leng (hereafter referred to as KL AND NOT Stupid Wannabe ) both alone.
Premise - Shepard's scurrying away from a burning down Afterlife, with a KO'd companion slung over his shoulder.  Shepard (and KL) knows Joker (on shuttle duties - don't ask ) is on his way, they also know Cerberus are coming too.  As a result, the two have a (probably verbal) confrontation that ends when Joker arrives first, before Cerberus, and threatens KL with the shuttle's cannons.  Shepard then escapes aboard shuttle.

So basically it's the end of Thessia, except in Shepard's favour this time (and hopefully less 'seriously, but...' moments).  But that whole gunship sequence on Thessia wasn't a great success (IMHO) and Shepard's already beaten KL once this chapter, beating KL again just feels cruel (yet oddly tempting) - and probably isn't really necessary at this point.  Also seeing as I've only got about a days worth of writing before meeting my intended update schedule, should I just ditch the whole thing?

PS  This is happening during Cerberus' takeover of Omega (haven't read the comics/books/twitter/etc) so is seriously AU territory here!  Plus Aria is indisposed (KO on night club floor - don't panic one of her minions is rescuing her) and communications are shot (Cerberus machinations).

PPS  The fire isn't Shepard's fault (but he'll probably get blamed for it) the KO'd Asari Pirate Queen is (which is probably why he'll get blamed for the fire)

As much as I hated the way KL was introduced and presented, I would have liked him if:
a) he'd been introduced in ME2, and
he'd been shown as a capable and worthy adversary.

Neither of these things happened.  As such, if you want him to be anything other than a joke (which he sort of is in ME3), I might avoid making him fail EVERYTIME you see him.

Having said that, you could still do a badass exit for him, with Shep cursing that "damn ninja" for always being able to disappear perfectly.  This way, Shep doesn't lose, but KL doesn't come off as an INEPT wannabe.

Honestly, they could have made KL interesting.  I always wished they'd made him a crewman in ME2, or the captain of the cleanup Cerberus squad (basically Shep's "B-Team").  Thus, there'd be a respectful working relationship.

In option one, it'd be the "oh crap, he was an assassin to keep me in line," and option two would be more of a "betrayal."

Of course, I say this, but KL is little better even after having read the books..."cereal killer" hehehe....

Modifié par Seracen, 04 septembre 2013 - 12:18 .

[Seracen]

On the subject, I think Kai Leng is indicative of a much larger problem that the last few outings from BW have suffered...stale tropes.

To be fair, anyone can suffer from this. However, I posit that proper handling of these tropes will smooth out the flaws.

For instance, most of the party in DA2 were these generic archetypes. Upon seeing them, you knew what they were, where they were going, etc.  That we never got a proper set up for the characters was the true problem. I remember reading an article about how "people say they want more romance options, but they fail to realize why they want it."

This was discussing BW in general, and how their focus on proper characterization as the cause of this desire, not just having "everything from the virginal girl next door to the [whorish] 'let's do it right here'" archetypes.

I didn't agree with everything in the article, as BW is a quality crew that has amazed for almost 3 decades.

However, I can't deny that I enjoyed how everyone bashed on Carver and Anders b/c they were idiots.  Looking forward to the belittlement of the characters in a game doesn't bode well.

Conversely, the characters in DA: Origins were also archetypes that we are familiar with. However, over the course of 80+ hours, we got used to them, we got to know their motivations.  There were even a few surprises here and there.

Heck, I have characters that aren't the most original (the "good batarian," the "calm vorcha," the "cold calculating Quarian"). However, I try to elicit a response to these characters via their trials and wishes. I try to show fallibility and triumph, and hope that it'll alleviate the "trope-ness" somewhat.

Anyhoo, I digress, but I am certain that BW is smart enough to temper fan expectations with a unifying vision for what their future projects should be.  I just hope they allow themselves enough time to shine, as we expect them to!  Now, back to the matter at hand...


So how do the rest of you subvert the archetype? How do you take a "stock" character and make it your own?

Modifié par Seracen, 04 septembre 2013 - 12:37 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

Seracen wrote...

As much as I hated the way KL was introduced and presented, I would have liked him if:
a) he'd been introduced in ME2, and
he'd been shown as a capable and worthy adversary.

Neither of these things happened.  As such, if you want him to be anything other than a joke (which he sort of is in ME3), I might avoid making him fail EVERYTIME you see him.

*snip*

That's kind of what I'm afraid of doing to be honest.  So far KL has turned up three times (excluding the maybe scene above) so far.  A verbal joust whilst Shepard was in 'jail' (draw, maybe advantage KL), then KL took a sniper shot at Shepard, didn't kill him (figured a WIDOW rifle round would be powerful enough to trigger the Normandy's kinetic shielding -it is an anti-material weapon after all- but would be deflected away), but would have under 'normal' circumstances (so one for KL, maybe?).  The third was a brief CQC scene where KL was overconfident (and cliché to boot) so Shepard exploited the opening: breaking KL's nose, throwing him to the floor and then 'applied boot leather' to KL's head (one for Shepard).

So that's what, one a-piece, but Shepard was the most recent victor.  Sticking the boot into KL, again and so soon is what's giving me pause.  Maybe it is starting to stray too far.

EDIT  To clarify, Shepard didn't know KL was present until after the sniper shot was deflected.  For all intents and purposes KL beat Shepard, he just didn't inflict any damage.

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 04 septembre 2013 - 01:02 .

[Seracen]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

Seracen wrote...

As much as I hated the way KL was introduced and presented, I would have liked him if:
a) he'd been introduced in ME2, and
he'd been shown as a capable and worthy adversary.

Neither of these things happened.  As such, if you want him to be anything other than a joke (which he sort of is in ME3), I might avoid making him fail EVERYTIME you see him.

*snip*

That's kind of what I'm afraid of doing to be honest.  So far KL has turned up three times (excluding the maybe scene above) so far.  [snippity snip]

So that's what, one a-piece, but Shepard was the most recent victor.  Sticking the boot into KL, again and so soon is what's giving me pause.  Maybe it is starting to stray too far.

EDIT  To clarify, Shepard didn't know KL was present until after the sniper shot was deflected.  For all intents and purposes KL beat Shepard, he just didn't inflict any damage.

Hmm.  Without having read it, it still seems like nebulous "wins" for KL, with advantage going to Shepard.  That's what you want, however.  I'd just give KL that moment of badassery that I suggested (ie the "ninja vanish" that has Shep cursing, KL "won" but also ran away, thereby sort of losing too).

However, you also don't want to overuse/belittle the appearance of KL.  It may seem like he just shows up every few chapters to get crapped on again, haha.

Modifié par Seracen, 04 septembre 2013 - 05:56 .

[hot_heart]

I don't see a problem with your plan, Fatiguesdualism. If you wanted I suppose you could have Kai Leng stall that exit to increase the tension (with a grenade or something?), perhaps endanger the KOed crewman? Just something to ensure he doesn't look like too much of a pushover (like Shepard and co. on Thessia).

While I'm here, just thought I'd mention that your fic has a few instances of 'where' being used instead of 'were'.

[MrStoob]

hot_heart wrote...

I don't see a problem with your plan, Fatiguesdualism. If you wanted I suppose you could have Kai Leng stall that exit to increase the tension (with a grenade or something?), perhaps endanger the KOed crewman? Just something to ensure he doesn't look like too much of a pushover (like Shepard and co. on Thessia).

While I'm here, just thought I'd mention that your fic has a few instances of 'where' being used instead of 'were'.

We're at the wier, where we're warily wearing wares which whirr.

Modifié par MrStoob, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:10 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

hot_heart wrote...

While I'm here, just thought I'd mention that your fic has a few instances of 'where' being used instead of 'were'.

 I promise to proof-reader better in the future!  But seriously thanks for calling me on that.  I know I'm making mistakes left and right as I blunder along.  Some I spot - whilst others slip past me; but all deserve a slap! (to the back of my head  )  I really should try looking for a beta 

I think I might just drop the scene, whilst the idea of Shep & KL snarling at each other (like competing wolves over a deer carcass) is tempting - I don't think I've got the time left to really work at the conversation.  Whilst throwing in yet another physical 'fist-fight' this chapter just feels too tiring/repetitive - there's already a hefty amount of combat/confrontations (for my taste anyway)

Seracen wrote...

However, you also don't want to overuse/belittle the appearance of KL.  It may seem like he just shows up every few chapters to get crapped on again, haha.

True - I would like to try having KL as a credible threat for a little while longer.  So that's another good reason to drop this scene!

MrStoob wrote...

We're at the wier, where we're warily wearing wares which whirr.

I hate you so much right now!  

[hot_heart]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...
 I promise to proof-reader better in the future!  But seriously thanks for calling me on that.  I know I'm making mistakes left and right as I blunder along.  Some I spot - whilst others slip past me; but all deserve a slap! (to the back of my head  )  I really should try looking for a beta 

Heh, it's no biggie. Wasn't a criticism as such, more of a "Sorry, I can't leave a proper review but after a quick scan, I noticed this..."

[Fatiguesdualism]

hot_heart wrote...


Heh, it's no biggie. Wasn't a criticism as such, more of a "Sorry, I can't leave a proper review but after a quick scan, I noticed this..."

If you noticed it, then it's valid to call me on it.  I make no bones about the fact my final English grade was a 'D' and that I haven't tried writing anything more demanding than birthday/Christmas cards for years.  To be honest I'm just happy for a view!

Respectfully, however, I would like to suggest that you quit scanning my dross and publish the next chapter of 'The Space That Separates' already!  
 (Sorry if that comes across as overly demanding, only -well- please...)

PS  In case it wasn't clear, I'm pleased as punch that you gave my effort a glance.  Thank You!

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 04 septembre 2013 - 09:45 .

[MrStoob]

Sometimes when I go back on a piece and notice things like your/you're or a missing article or incorrect tense when I seemingly half re-wrote a passage, all those kinda things, and no-one out of all the people who read it said a thing. It annoys me when I spot it but seems not important enough for someone to include in a comment or detract from enjoyment to much.

Strive for perfection, be satisfied with the best. And so on...

Modifié par MrStoob, 04 septembre 2013 - 09:41 .

[hot_heart]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...
Respectfully, however, I would like to suggest that you quit scanning my dross and publish the next chapter of 'The Space That Separates' already!  
 (Sorry if that comes across as overly demanding, only -well- please...)

PS  In case it wasn't clear, I'm pleased as punch that you gave my effort a glance.  Thank You!

I'm trying.

Yours isn't dross! And, of course, it's on 'The List.' It will be read once I get this thing out of the way.

Modifié par hot_heart, 04 septembre 2013 - 09:48 .

[enayasoul]

MrStoob wrote...

Sometimes when I go back on a piece and notice things like your/you're or a missing article or incorrect tense when I seemingly half re-wrote a passage, all those kinda things, and no-one out of all the people who read it said a thing. It annoys me when I spot it but seems not important enough for someone to include in a comment or detract from enjoyment to much.

Strive for perfection, be satisfied with the best. And so on...

I know what you mean. I even found a missing word in a sentence that I didn't notice before I published it!  For shame!  I'm lucky if I even get 1 review per chapter.  I know I shouldn't rely on reviews but it really doesn't help with motivating me to produce more chapters without that one review. 



Anyways, I'll continue to write for myself and finish up the story.  It's a goal I need to accomplish.  I'll worry about the next installment later.

[Fatiguesdualism]

MrStoob wrote...

Strive for perfection, be satisfied with the best. And so on... 

I've always preferred the one about the two blokes, running shoes, and the lion!  (Perfection is -I feel- overly ambitious for me!)

Well thanks for reading folks, I think I've gotten my head un-muddled and I'm honestly grateful. 

@hot_heart - well I have faith in your abilities, just looking forward to reading what you come up with!

enayasoul wrote...

I know I shouldn't rely on reviews but it really doesn't help with motivating me to produce more chapters without that one review. 

+1  (Or 'what they said' - 'QFT' - 'I agree' and so on.) 

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 04 septembre 2013 - 11:47 .

[MrStoob]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

Mr Stoob wrote...

Strive for perfection, be satisfied with the best. And so on... 

I've always preferred the one about the two blokes, running shoes, and the lion!  (Perfection is -I feel- overly ambitious for me!)

I sorely hope you don't sit down at your writing station thinking, "Well this is going to be crap."

Anyway, stupid English question of the day.  I've used a phrase that while it means what it means, the spelling might give some confusion to those who know their English through less reputable means.  I had a similar quandry a while back with the word 'gay'.  In the scene, someone is sleeping on Liara's couch while they look for a place of their own.  So I've said they speak from their 'couch-******-bed'.  As I wrote it I thought, is this going to mis-interpreted as some kind of dirty stained piece of furniture? lol

Anyway, I like those kinds of Englishy phrases so does anyone else foresee my potential problem or am I being overly 'whatever'?

Modifié par MrStoob, 05 septembre 2013 - 08:53 .

[MrStoob]

You know... I'm surprised sometimes. I'd posted some of my short Skyrim musings on a Steam writers' forum and one of the guys who runs it put a comment on about the 'sexual content' and how some of the group are uncomfortable with it, suggesting a re-write. There are no 'sexual acts' and barely even 'slap and tickle', but there are playful scenes and nudity, all pretty naively presented. Now, I've dealt with it diplomatically thus far but this irks me. For one, Skyrim is clearly a 'Mature' game. For two, I'd expect broader minds from a writing/reading community. I'm certainly not going to censor my work and if it comes to it, I'll just remove it from the group. Incidentally, there's a humorous tavern song in the piece, extolling the virtues of the 'girls of Solitude' that is probably the most explicit part of it, but no-one had issue with that. I wonder more if the overly-sensitive politically correct brigade can't handle a free-spirited sexualised female and are unsure how to react lol. "What? A naturist girl? Sexist!" and so on.