9962 réponses à ce sujet

[Fatiguesdualism]

@hot_heart - I concede to your superiority of lines spoken by muppets.  Wait, NO!  That didn't come out right!  I mean that, I accept that you are better at nonsense than I am.  NO THAT'S EVEN WORSE - Sorry I meant...let's just say...what I intended to say...that...


 
PS Your take IS much better than mine!

(edit - top post, isn't there a rule around here for that?)

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 23 septembre 2013 - 12:02 .

[hot_heart]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...
(edit - top post, isn't there a rule around here for that?)

You have to post a picture of Miranda.

...or am I confusing this with another thread?

[Lawrence0294]

hot_heart wrote...

Fatiguesdualism wrote...
(edit - top post, isn't there a rule around here for that?)

You have to post a picture of Miranda.

...or am I confusing this with another thread?

*flies in*

Nope that sounds correct 

*flies away*

[MrStoob]

Though really, it should be the fine Doctor T'Soni; I mean we wouldn't want to fly in the face of canon now would we? Muhahahahaha!

I'll get me coat...

[MrStoob]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...
(edit - top post, isn't there a rule around here for that?)

Nah, I just use it as an excuse to peddle some of my fluffy wares sometimes.

[Seracen]

I am lost, haha.

Urgh, I'm almost done with one of my term papers. Here's hoping the constant work will instill some drive to continue my fanfic work...

[Fatiguesdualism]

@Seracen - Good Luck on the term paper!

hot_heart wrote...

You have to post a picture of Miranda.

...or am I confusing this with another thread?

Unfortunately (or possibly fortunately) I have NO idea on how to insert a picture into a post.  Anyway wasn't there a forum once for stuff like that?   

MrStoob wrote...

Nah, I just use it as an excuse to peddle some of my fluffy wares sometimes.

As soon as I get some proper fluff written I'll use it in the future!

Anyway, back on track, I'm having problems with a character description in my story.  Usually there is a lack thereof -characters are all taken from the games- and I have assumed readers will have a passing familiarity with them.  Now I'm trying to introduce an OC and it just feels like I'm running through a check-list (ala - Suspect is described as...) and it's really jarring me, especially as I haven't really described any canon characters (which is a mistake admittedly ) to the detail for the OC.  So here's my question (eventually):

 Just how much description do you feel is required for an OC and how quickly do you give all that information? 
 

[MrStoob]

I suppose it can depend on how much the OC is going to feature. Dropping stuff in along the way via dialogue is a good way of introducing character quirks, or how they react to a scenario, and visual descriptions can be included in that.

"So, are you in?" Shepard asks the tall mercenary.
"We'll be working with batarians?" he replies as he strokes his bearded chin.
"That a problem?"
"Hell, as long as I get to kill something, I'm game!" he shouts as he slaps Shepard hard on the back.

Four lines and we know he's tall, bearded and likes killing stuff with bravado.

I'm light on physical descriptions, partly for the same reasons (if you're reading ME fic, you know what a ship interior looks like or what a hanar looks like) but I've OCs I've never even said what they look like, one's an asari so I can probably get away with that but she's getting to the age where I should be mentioning her unique markings, another OC from Shep's childhood is male and has a name, that's about it lol.

[Rixatrix]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...
Just how much description do you feel is required for an OC and how quickly do you give all that information? 

I'm a newb, but if you want my opinion, I pretty much agree with Mr. Stoob.

First, decide if the OC is going to be major or minor.  For a guy brought in just to be killed off in the same chapter, you might just give him a feature or two that you drop in.  For a major character, I still like to start off with one feature and go from there.

     "You're not going without me," she said firmly, her brown eyes fixed on Shepard.
     Wrex grunted, shaking his head.  "You'll only slow us down, kid."
     Jutting out her chin, the teenager replied defiantly, "He's my brother.  And I can hold my own."  For a brief moment, her entire body glowed biotic blue.
     Shepard shrugged.  Picking up rebels with a cause had become something of a hobby of his over the years, anyway.  With a sigh, Shepard murmured, "Just don't get shot," as he started walking toward the compound, with Wrex following suit.
     "I'm Twila, by the way!" she called after them, running to catch up in a blur of blond hair.

If you break it up into little tidbits, your reader can have fun picking up the pieces to get the full picture.  Dumping description in one introductory paragraph can create a boring chunk if you're not careful.  If you really want to create a picture of a character before you throw them in the mix, you can do the paragraph - just make it action, with a bit of description per line.  Remember that dialogue can also function doubly as description; you can easily expose character traits like stubbornness, strong/weak will, good/evil nature, etc.  The list goes on.

As far as how much description: Faulkner or Hemingway is a personal preference.  Some writers offer minimal description, and as readers, we tend to fill in the blanks via our imagination anyway.  Some writers paint a picture, and that's fine, too.  However, the key is differentiation.  In a story like "Hill Like White Elephants," there are only two main characters, a man and a girl.  And that's really all the description you need to keep them straight.  In "As I Lay Dying," there are quite a few more characters, so things like relation (husband/wife/sister/etc.), character traits, age, (and names!) etc. become much more important.  So, you can call a major OC "the commando" the entire story if that's your only commando, and it'll be sufficient as long as you flesh out her personality and goals/motive through dialogue and actions.  On the other hand, you can describe her height, her markings, her relation to other characters, her outfit, her name/alias, and more if you like, or if you have lots of OCs and especially if you have more than one commando.

Hope that helps.

Happy writing!

Modifié par BlueMoonSeraphim, 25 septembre 2013 - 03:57 .

[Seracen]

I usually go with a POV discussion, running through the thoughts from 3rd person. For example, when I introduced a new batarian squaddie to Shep, I had him note skin, hair (which wasn't hair), and the kind of clothes she wore.

It generally is up to personal preference. I am more of the school of making some memorable characteristics, and allow the reader to fill in the gaps as they like. However, I am also bad on explaining certain aspects, as I assume most readers will have a passing familiarity with how the world looks.

Oddly enough, I don't skip out on this in terms of mechanisms in the environment, such as biotics (perhaps b/c of how I try to set the tone of how these things will play out in my story).

Modifié par Seracen, 26 septembre 2013 - 01:30 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

Thanks for the replies folks! 
 
I think part of my problem was because the chap is probably going to be a recurring character (New XO for the Normandy) I felt he warranted a bit of description - but in the scene he first appears he is very much part of the background, the focus is on two other characters. Hence why it feels so jarring to give an overly (TBH) full description.  I'm going to follow the advice given and just give a couple of obvious characteristics - maybe rework the scene so he's a bit more prominent too!

Thanks again!

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 26 septembre 2013 - 09:38 .

[Tserva]

Well, not sure this is quite how this is done. But desperation wins out. I'm a huge ME fan, have been all along. And I've been writing fan fiction for it for a few years, but kept it all under my hat. But now I've started posting and sharing it online.

But I realize that I am in dire need of beta readers, well at least one person who can look at this who is not as invested in it as me. I'm writing a new a piece set in ME1--with the full intention of posting it on FFnet and AO3. It is relatively lore friendly, but for consistency and personal flavor I shift the abilites around a bit between the three "game periods" in an effort to make them more consistent in my own mind between the games and for the characterization and back story.

I'm not looking for the master of the red pen, though some stylistic and structural attention would be appreciated. I'm mainly looking for someone to look at flow, character, plot. Point out holes and bunnies--spotlight places where things slow down too much. Things of that nature.

[Efvie]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

Thanks for the replies folks! 
 
I think part of my problem was because the chap is probably going to be a recurring character (New XO for the Normandy) I felt he warranted a bit of description - but in the scene he first appears he is very much part of the background, the focus is on two other characters.

This is a little late, but why is he in the background? For Shepard (?) a new XO would probably be a big deal, and a natural focus of things.

In addition to the good advice about easing him in—we don’t notice or learn everything about a person right away—I’d also try to take the introduction in terms of the observing character. A soldier will probably pay attention to a specific subset of things on first brush, a personal reflection.

[Seracen]

Tserva wrote...

Well, not sure this is quite how this is done. But desperation wins out. I'm a huge ME fan, have been all along. And I've been writing fan fiction for it for a few years, but kept it all under my hat. But now I've started posting and sharing it online.

But I realize that I am in dire need of beta readers, well at least one person who can look at this who is not as invested in it as me. I'm writing a new a piece set in ME1--with the full intention of posting it on FFnet and AO3. It is relatively lore friendly, but for consistency and personal flavor I shift the abilites around a bit between the three "game periods" in an effort to make them more consistent in my own mind between the games and for the characterization and back story.

I'm not looking for the master of the red pen, though some stylistic and structural attention would be appreciated. I'm mainly looking for someone to look at flow, character, plot. Point out holes and bunnies--spotlight places where things slow down too much. Things of that nature.

Welcome to the thread!  Alas, I am still in the midst of finishing my own story, and have sworn off reading other works, in case I start cribbing off others' notes.

Still, you should definitely touch base with anyone who gives you feedback via ff.net, as some of my betas came from my initial reviewers.

Modifié par Seracen, 26 septembre 2013 - 08:34 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

@Efvie - sorry should have explained I'm working on an AU.  Basically Shepard isn't the Normandy's commander anymore - he's more of a passenger (kind-of...it's complicated)

Anyway was working on an extended version of the scene - and realised it was quickly filling up with unnecessary techno-babble (Thank You Star Trek! ) so I  might end up ditching it altogether!  Thus maybe shelving the issue till another time (probably about 5 minutes later going by my luck !)

@Tserva - wish I could help but I haven't gotten my Writer's Licence yet!  Seriously - you'd probably be better off ignoring my 'suggestions' anyway!   Still, Good Luck - and I hope you find yourself a Beta soon!  But you can always ask for advice here (do it often enough myself) the folks here are handy sounding boards!

[Seracen]

So, I just came to a realization with my fiction, a turning point if you will. I finally realized why I just couldn't finish writing the final 2 chapters of my story thus far... they would have sucked.

I didn't have writer's block, I knew EXACTLY how the scenes would play out. Nor was it a lack of action.  The problem was that the final arc, as I had originally created it, would have been cloyingly melodramatic.

Oddly enough, it took me finishing another published author's works to realize this. I was taking a break from writing, and picked up the light novels for "Sword Art Online." I devoured all twelve volumes in a month.  The final book ended on a cliffhanger.

I then found that the author had posted the initial series online, and kept it up for folks to see. So, I basically got this "unauthorized" copy of the end. While I knew the end product wouldn't reflect that original draft, I took it as a pretty solid "what if" to tide me over.

While a good read, this final chapter was a bit disappointing compared to the standards already set.   Being the person that I am, I started looking into why I wasn't blown away, even though the ending was mostly satisfying.

The realizations I made mirrored my own doubts about my story. Mainly, I realized that I was trying to be TOO overly dramatic. In trying to craft this epic masterpiece, I had forgotten what made the story so compelling in the first place...that sense of contained intimacy, that emotional impact that comes from the characters themselves.

I've no doubt that I'd have enjoyed my original vision for the ending, but it would have lacked a certain flare. There's no way I am going to outdo the ME3 armada fights prior to the Earth Missions.

However, that shouldn't be my aim. I just need to do a proper ending that will feel satisfying. As such, I am going to reappropriate a bunch of material, and end the story in a slightly more simple manner.

I say "slightly," but it's still going to be pretty ridiculous. Once I made the decision to remove one particular aspect of the story, it's amazing how everything fell into place. I had been dragging myself down with needless complexity.

The epiphany hit me literally less than 12 hours ago. It took me nearly 2 months of writing barely ANYTHING to have this breakthrough. So I suppose the lesson isn't to force yourself to do something b/c of some need to outperform X or Y.

Just do your best, and let the inspiration come as it may.   I am going to pass out from the groovy painkillers I am taking right now, and hopefully I will get cracking on the writing front tomorrow...after what seems an eternity, lol...

Modifié par Seracen, 27 septembre 2013 - 02:37 .

[Tserva]

Seracen wrote...

The realizations I made mirrored my own doubts about my story. Mainly, I realized that I was trying to be TOO overly dramatic. In trying to craft this epic masterpiece, I had forgotten what made the story so compelling in the first place...that sense of contained intimacy, that emotional impact that comes from the characters themselves.

...

Just do your best, and let the inspiration come as it may.   I am going to pass out from the groovy painkillers I am taking right now, and hopefully I will get cracking on the writing front tomorrow...after what seems an eternity, lol...

I think I came to the same conclusion today as well. I realized I wanted to do to much and I got away from the scenes that I like to write and my prose was becoming this unweildly philosophical thing, rather than the enjoyable interplay of character which is what I love to write. It got to heavily weighted so I had to refocus. The difference is I'm not at the end of mine, but at the beginning. 

But in my experience beginnings and endings can be the worst. 

And thanks for the suggestions about Betas from FFnet. I guess I'll just have to brave up and post the beginnings of the beastie and see if anyone bites. Or maybe post more snippets I won't be using and see how people respond from there. 

But appreciate the suggestions. Hopefully, I'll find someone. The folks I know that read FF don't play ME and the folks I know who play ME don't read FF. So my RL connections failed me there. 

[MrStoob]

Seracen wrote...
The problem was that the final arc, as I had originally created it, would have been cloyingly melodramatic.

I would ask on this point, how has the set up been?  I mean, does the tale naturally lead to a melodramatic ending?  I'd personally steer clear of switching direction right at the end if the set up has led readers to this type of conclusion.  Not knowing your tale specifically (sorry), I can only speculate.

[Seracen]

MrStoob wrote...

Seracen wrote...
The problem was that the final arc, as I had originally created it, would have been cloyingly melodramatic.

I would ask on this point, how has the set up been?  I mean, does the tale naturally lead to a melodramatic ending?  I'd personally steer clear of switching direction right at the end if the set up has led readers to this type of conclusion.  Not knowing your tale specifically (sorry), I can only speculate.

Nah, the setup worked fine.  It was based on the outline after a few edits, so it isn't like the ending came out of left field.

Rather, the reveal needed to have happened already, in terms of the overall purpose for the villains.  There was TOO MUCH of a twist, without the appropriate setup to allow a proper appreciation for it.

Without going into too many details, here is how the original end arc progressed...

1) throw-away plot reveal at Ilos
2) another reveal on Omega
3) attack on the Citadel, a few baddies die
4) Shep & Co gather at Omega
5) two pronged assault, one on Haestrom (Conduit for escape from next part)
6) other assault on the Galactic Core (resurrected Collector base (using tech to create dark energy weapon)


The NEW end arc will progress thusly...

1) Original plot reveal will NOW take place on Haestrom (which I set up for this purpose in Ch 1)
2) gather at Omega for two plot reveals, one which is...
3) baddies got the Citadel (spoilery method)
4) DE weapon and troops launched from  Ilos via Conduit
5) Shep and crew run the conduit to Citadel, Garrus and crew destroy the DE weapon on Ilos

I am glossing over some finer points, but overall, I don't have to come up with some nonsensical reason as to why the Galactic Core matters again.  In fact, it'll allow me to completely cut out a plot point that I didn't really explain as well as I should have (it existed to make ONE character have relevance).

Furthermore, it feels like an assault on the Citadel (and Earth, by extension) should be a game ender.  There really shouldn't be TWO great fleet assaults happening here.  In the original version, The Citadel Fleets were decimated by the backstab attack, leaving Shep and a few people to take out a few of the baddies.  I also never addressed that particular battle, going straight to aftermath.

Then they somehow gather more forces for the final attack?  It works, but I think it's stretching the galactic forces, and the audience's patience, too thin.  With ONE final fleet assault (even two pronged), there's just more of an emphasis on the final push, as opposed to the double-dip climax that I originally would have had.

Part of me still likes the idea of throwing a roughshod duct-taped fleet at the end run, as I had originally planned.  However, it feels off for some reason, as this means some ONLY showed up AFTER the other half had their asses handed to them.

There SHOULDN'T be anybody who isn't invested in the fight this time, so there's no reason for them not to all just show up at once anways.  Also, there's more symmetry to ME1 this way, which I like.

Anyhoo, I am open to suggestions, as I am still fine tuning the progression of events.

Modifié par Seracen, 28 septembre 2013 - 08:36 .

[Ignis Mors]

Seracen wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

Seracen wrote...
The problem was that the final arc, as I had originally created it, would have been cloyingly melodramatic.

I would ask on this point, how has the set up been?  I mean, does the tale naturally lead to a melodramatic ending?  I'd personally steer clear of switching direction right at the end if the set up has led readers to this type of conclusion.  Not knowing your tale specifically (sorry), I can only speculate.

Nah, the setup worked fine.  It was based on the outline after a few edits, so it isn't like the ending came out of left field.

Rather, the reveal needed to have happened already, in terms of the overall purpose for the villains.  There was TOO MUCH of a twist, without the appropriate setup to allow a proper appreciation for it.

Without going into too many details, here is how the original end arc progressed...

1) throw-away plot reveal at Ilos
2) another reveal on Omega
3) attack on the Citadel, a few baddies die
4) Shep & Co gather at Omega
5) two pronged assault, one on Haestrom (Conduit for escape from next part)
6) other assault on the Galactic Core (resurrected Collector base (using tech to create dark energy weapon)


The NEW end arc will progress thusly...

1) Original plot reveal will NOW take place on Haestrom (which I set up for this purpose in Ch 1)
2) gather at Omega for two plot reveals, one which is...
3) baddies got the Citadel (spoilery method)
4) DE weapon and troops launched from  Ilos via Conduit
5) Shep and crew run the conduit to Citadel, Garrus and crew destroy the DE weapon on Ilos

I am glossing over some finer points, but overall, I don't have to come up with some nonsensical reason as to why the Galactic Core matters again.  In fact, it'll allow me to completely cut out a plot point that I didn't really explain as well as I should have (it existed to make ONE character have relevance).

Furthermore, it feels like an assault on the Citadel (and Earth, by extension) should be a game ender.  There really shouldn't be TWO great fleet assaults happening here.  In the original version, The Citadel Fleets were decimated by the backstab attack, leaving Shep and a few people to take out a few of the baddies.  I also never addressed that particular battle, going straight to aftermath.

Then they somehow gather more forces for the final attack?  It works, but I think it's stretching the galactic forces, and the audience's patience, too thin.  With ONE final fleet assault (even two pronged), there's just more of an emphasis on the final push, as opposed to the double-dip climax that I originally would have had.

Part of me still likes the idea of throwing a roughshod duct-taped fleet at the end run, as I had originally planned.  However, it feels off for some reason, as this means some ONLY showed up AFTER the other half had their asses handed to them.

There SHOULDN'T be anybody who isn't invested in the fight this time, so there's no reason for them not to all just show up at once anways.  Also, there's more symmetry to ME1 this way, which I like.

Anyhoo, I am open to suggestions, as I am still fine tuning the progression of events.

That sounds a lot more complicated than what I've got planned. It's just there are some ****s who are blowing stuff up(other than the reapers, this is post reaper war.) and Shepard's doing some stealthy-Spectre-black ops mission... things to stop 'em and gather as much info on their really advanced tech based on ancient humanity's tech. And, maybe, travelling to the Andromeda galaxy. 
Speaking of which, I just thought of something, when people mapped out the relay network, did they set a point on a galaxy map, and just fly a relay through another relay, then pair them up when they were on the other side? Or did they have to lug materials all the way across the distance to build the second relay on the other side? Is there anything to indicate which is more likely?

[Efvie]

Ignis Mors wrote...
Speaking of which, I just thought of something, when people mapped out the relay network, did they set a point on a galaxy map, and just fly a relay through another relay, then pair them up when they were on the other side? Or did they have to lug materials all the way across the distance to build the second relay on the other side? Is there anything to indicate which is more likely?

Well, people didn’t build the network; the Reapers did! So, yes, mapping the network is a matter of going to the other side and seeing what‘s there.

(As you may recall, there are severe restrictions about opening inactive relays because there’s no telling what lives on the other side. This is how the rachni wars started…)

[Seracen]

Yeah, a system as complex as the relays would have to have been built by a race for whom time was not a limiting factor.

Either that, or create a relay, ride it to the end (w/ no knowledge/relay on the other side), then create another relay (having lugged whatever materials. Leapfrog as many times as necessary until you get back to the starting point.

Incidentally, that whole variable mass (from ship to ship) while travelling from one relay to another could account for "drift."

Modifié par Seracen, 29 septembre 2013 - 02:09 .

[MrStoob]

I try not to put too much stock in things like space travel/space magic. I'm with Lucas on this one (ep IV-VI at least).

How do the ships travel? Lightspeed, now shut up and enjoy the show.

[Seracen]

I'd agree that too much explanation into the innerworkings can ruin the story, just ask midichlorians...

Most of the lore building for my stories are just background which the audience will never see (nor should they, in certain cases).

[Ignis Mors]

Seracen wrote...

I'd agree that too much explanation into the innerworkings can ruin the story, just ask midichlorians...

Most of the lore building for my stories are just background which the audience will never see (nor should they, in certain cases).

Bah! They must know all of the things! They must know the specific details of how Miranda and Oriana were created, more than what she told you in ME2. They must know the exact science behind mass relays. They need to know that the main character had a pet penguin when she was six, but it ended up getting eaten by her father's dog!  Just kidding.