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[Fatiguesdualism]

@hot_heart re: Gullwing - Thanks! I really wish I could stop getting caught up in the in the silly little details when I get close to posting an update (I'm not panicking, no siree, not at all)

@YurigirlzCrush - 'Doolally' = Mad/Crazy/Insane, or sometimes, Angry! (British usage)

edit (top post -sigh)

from the 'scrap' file...

SETTING: Shepard and Anderson having a relaxed conversation in the apartment...

“Do you remember the first time we met?” Anderson asked. “You where this skinny little eight year old on the [Einstein], every other kid on board wanted to be what their parent was and the rest of them either wanted to be the captain of the [Einstein] or a fighter pilot. But they all wanted to enlist when they where old enough and help protect the Alliance. You though wanted to be an explorer, you wanted to just go out there and see the whole galaxy. But you didn’t want to enlist, remember why?”
Shepard gently swirled the empty bottle. “I didn’t want to enlist because being on the [Einstein] was boring as hell - and I thought that was all the Alliance did. Mind-numbing patrols through safely charted space, waiting for something to happen.”

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 11 octobre 2013 - 08:36 .

[MrStoob]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...
@stoob: questions! first, wasn't EDI already on the ship when Shepard went to project overlord? so how could she be done instead? second... does Liara really adjust her undergarments in the breifings? I never noticed. that's funny. and third... I actually thought that about Executor Palin all the time in the first game. I was like... if I was him, i'd eventually snap and shoot someone walking past my door. but third-point-two what exactly does doolally mean?

re: EDI, sorry, I mean specifically that Doctor Core's body (but not necessarily the ******...) was originally intended for his use once they got the method right.  If I'm right (am I right?) both projects would have been running in parallel, so chicken and egg a bit.  EDI would have taken priority in the immediacy of the Lazerus project and the need to install into the SR-2, so David was put on the back burner.  Regardless, the Overlord project failed and Doctor Core was initiated with AI.

lol, yea, I was originally going to have it quite sad, that every time Pallin looks to the opening door, he longs for it to be an actual visitor, as ambassadors file past.  Again.  Sigh.  hehe.

I exaggerate the Liara thing somewhat, but yea: http://youtu.be/smWUCoEt3TQ?t=15m19s and this time, Let's Learn Italian! lol

And I see the 'doolally' thing has been cleared up.  

On a further note for no apparent reason... was chatting with some guy on Steam, didn't know where he was from, but he said 'DeviantArt is like a bag of milky ways.'  I was like, hm, not heard that one before, what's the simile?  He said, it's like a bag of infinite unknown possibilities, fair enough I thought, but then he went on to correct me, saying it was a metaphor. *long pause* - *rolls sleaves up*  "Ah, Kelly's boy, eh?" (there's an old reference for ya )

He conceded eventually he is Pilippine and I probably know better lol.  Wasn't heavy, I just found it humorous.  So I'll finish with this:

Modifié par MrStoob, 10 octobre 2013 - 06:24 .

[Efvie]

MrStoob wrote...

I've tried going deeper than 'spaaace magiiic' in some parts of my sequel, but I found I was getting bogged down in detail and not enough interaction stuff. There's one chapter where David Archer talks at length about what Cerberus did to Shepard and he (I have some 'further to' stuff that Cerberus did to both of them), and I found it hard going myself TBH lol. David Archer? Talking at length? And not a decimal place in sight?

I find that the point isn’t so much about explaining it to the reader, but to yourself. I try to reduce the exposition to information that is known by and relevant to the characters in the story, and occasionally add my own Codex entries that the readers can peruse for background.

[MrStoob]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

from the 'scrap' file...

SETTING: Shepard and Anderson having a relaxed conversation in the apartment...

“Do you remember the first time we met?” Anderson asked. “You where this skinny little eight year old on the [Einstein], every other kid on board wanted to be what their parent was and the rest of them either wanted to be the captain of the [Einstein] or a fighter pilot. But they all wanted to enlist when they where old enough and help protect the Alliance. You though wanted to be an explorer, you wanted to just go out there and see the whole galaxy. But you didn’t want to enlist, remember why?”
Shepard gently swirled the empty bottle. “I didn’t want to enlist because being on the [Einstein] was boring as hell - and I thought that was all the Alliance did. Mind-numbing patrols through safely charted space, waiting for something to happen.”

Sorry, in my ealier musings I didn't comment where I meant to.  I like this little scene and Shepard's reasoning.

Anyway, finished my 'upgrade' of Blue and posted the final chapt.  Due to my 'upgrading', it's gone from 62 chapters to 46.  lol  A lot of that is taking the rashly posted 1k chapters and putting them into an appropriate chapter, rather than 1k chapt here, 2k there, 4k the other, and so on.  It's not uniform like but a bit more consistent.  Oh and I noticed that one small scene destroys the lore I've set out for the sequel lol.  D'oh!

Modifié par MrStoob, 10 octobre 2013 - 08:03 .

[YurigirlzCrush]

holy disorientation, Batman! warning. this has absolutely nothing to do with writing. except that insomnia+writing+Wreck-It Ralph last night/this morning meant I got no sleep at all before going back to class. so when I got home from my last class yesterday I crashed. now I just woke up and it's like late at night and I feel like I don't even know what day it is! *pout*

@Fatiguesduialism: just in case you don't notice (and anyone I've reviewed a story for will tell you these things leap out at me, hence my chapterly error pointy out time in reviews) you used where at the beginning of Anderson's quote when you clearly meant were. Also, in the next sentence, you said... every other kid on board... followed by.. the rest of them... those two phrases together are confusing. if every other kid wanted to do option 1, then there isn't a rest of them. because that's all of them.

@stoob: thanks for clearing that up. I forgot about Dr. Eva's body actually. for some reason I tend to gloss over in my head that EDI once didn't have a body to walk around with. *frowns* and that thing with Liara was funny. and also funny, for some reason I couldn't help but notice how sexy Liara's Italian voice is... *blushes*

and also, thanks for clearing up the brittish lingo. dunno why you English people don't use the proper words we Americans use. you invented the language, you'd think you'd speak it properly! *grins, ducks, runs*

and yes, I was totes joking there! don't lynch me! please! I would be the first to agree with you if you said that we Americans butcher the language more frequently than anyone!

[MrStoob]

It's a funny one with English and 'American English'. It's not entirely as it appears. American English has stuck with some of the old 'methods' of spelling stuff, while English has evolved. So in some regards and to some opinions, America is speaking/writing 'correct' English. But we Brits still find humour in 'color', 'center', pronunciation of 'aluminium' (which I believe was re-spelt to match the vocalised version?), 'criminalist' (really?), 'herb' (it's got a ****ing H in it!), etc, etc. hehe

Here's some colloquial fun (a few scouse ones in here too), I'm not sure how many of these have made it across the pond (some of it's a bit old school but so am I):

"You get any scran?"
"Jibbed it."
"You numpty, I'm Marvin 'ere."
"Well the busys are well on top up there, jam butties the lot."
"Don't be arly. me stomach thinks me throats been cut."

scran - food
jibbed it - abandoned it / cast it off - sailing term no doubt came from the major port cities such as Liverpool
numpty - idiot - not sure on derivation, but used generally in north of England
busys - police
jam butty - police car - white cars with red stripe along the middle looks like a jam butty or 'jelly sandwich' as our colonial cousins might say
arly - stingy, cruel - odd one this, used throughout Liverpool, fully it is 'arlarse' but why? not sure but one site suggests some kind of 'sly' and 'arsey' combo, though personally (like a lot of NW slang) probably Nordic origin

Probably don't need explaining but...

I'm Marvin 'ere - hungry - from the rhyming slang 'Hank Marvin' or 'Lee Marvin' depending on your wont, 'starvin', Marvin

me stomach thinks me throats been cut - i'm hungry - probably pretty clear this one but just in case

If I wrote how I spoke, and did the same for my characters, I'd get no readers. 

Modifié par MrStoob, 11 octobre 2013 - 10:13 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

@YurigirlzCrush - no harm done!  The where/were debacle is a major personal failing of mine - I'm sorry to say!  But to be honest it is one of the reasons I've started writing again.  A few years back I wouldn't have been making such a simple mistake, but I've left things to deteriorate and now - that's where I'm at!   (unless it's were...no maybe it's where...but could it be were...fairly sure we're is wrong though  I have a headache now! )  



The 'every other' thing might be another British-isim (or another failing on my part, I've plenty of them ) basically it should mean, one out of two.  For example:  There is a room with six children in it.  If every other child is a boy, how many are girls?  ANS: 3 (There are 3 boys, the rest of them -three- must be girls) 
If every other kid wanted to do option 1, then the rest of them wanted to do something else (probably option 2 - darn kids! )

@MrStoob - don't tease 'the cousins' please!  Although a friend of mine's personal bug-bear is the word 'billions' same spelling and pronunciation - very different value (or used to be at least!)

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 11 octobre 2013 - 06:49 .

[MrStoob]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...
MrStoob - don't tease 'the cousins' please!  Although a friend of mine's personal bug-bear is the word 'billions' same spelling and pronunciation - very different value (or used to be at least!)

Ooh, ooh.  Don't get me started on a billion and flying in the face of logical progression...

[Ignis Mors]

MrStoob wrote...

It's a funny one with English and 'American English'. It's not entirely as it appears. American English has stuck with some of the old 'methods' of spelling stuff, while English has evolved. So in some regards and to some opinions, America is speaking/writing 'correct' English. But we Brits still find humour in 'color', 'center', pronunciation of 'aluminium' (which I believe was re-spelt to match the vocalised version?), 'criminalist' (really?), 'herb' (it's got a ****ing H in it!), etc, etc. hehe

Here's some colloquial fun (a few scouse ones in here too), I'm not sure how many of these have made it across the pond (some of it's a bit old school but so am I):

"You get any scran?"
"Jibbed it."
"You numpty, I'm Marvin 'ere."
"Well the busys are well on top up there, jam butties the lot."
"Don't be arly. me stomach thinks me throats been cut."

scran - food
jibbed it - abandoned it / cast it off - sailing term no doubt came from the major port cities such as Liverpool
numpty - idiot - not sure on derivation, but used generally in north of England
busys - police
jam butty - police car - white cars with red stripe along the middle looks like a jam butty or 'jelly sandwich' as our colonial cousins might say
arly - stingy, cruel - odd one this, used throughout Liverpool, fully it is 'arlarse' but why? not sure but one site suggests some kind of 'sly' and 'arsey' combo, though personally (like a lot of NW slang) probably Nordic origin

Probably don't need explaining but...

I'm Marvin 'ere - hungry - from the rhyming slang 'Hank Marvin' or 'Lee Marvin' depending on your wont, 'starvin', Marvin

me stomach thinks me throats been cut - i'm hungry - probably pretty clear this one but just in case

If I wrote how I spoke, and did the same for my characters, I'd get no readers. 

*Shakes head. This is too complicated. If we had either the star trek or ME translators, I'm pretty sure they would translate between British English and American English. Sigh. One would think that two people, from different countries that speak the same language, would be able to understand one another without the need for translation. 
@Yuri. Hey, that's not fair to your own country! Yes, we American's mess up English numerically more than the other English-Speaking nations of the world, but you also have to consider that we have a much larger population than them. (No offense, Brits/Australians in the States we just have a ****ton of people, there's about 316 million of us.) So, percentage-wise we're probably even. 
@Fatigues. Really? I thought the billions range was universal. For single billions x times 10^9, for ten billions y times 10^10, and for hundred billions z times 10^11. Is it different in England? Or was it different? 

Modifié par Ignis Mors, 11 octobre 2013 - 07:32 .

[MrStoob]

Where / were / we're test:
http://www.saintambr...Homophones2.htm

Yea, it's probably meant for kids but hey. Ofc, 10/10 lol.

[MrStoob]

In Europe at least it used to 1,000,000 = million, 1,000,000,000,000 = billion, i.e. thousand thousands are a million, million millions are a billion, billion billions a trillion etc, etc. The system falters at the start, what with it being 10 x 10 = hundred, 10 x 100 = thousand, 1000 x 1000 - million, so there was always a discrepancy of progression there but yea, I preferred the old system for that. Though come on US! Metric! Then we won't buy stupid ****ing helicopters from you that were built for imperial measure and unable to refit to our own specs. That happened apparently lol.

[Fatiguesdualism]

MrStoob wrote...

Where / were / we're test:
http://www.saintambr...Homophones2.htm

Yea, it's probably meant for kids but hey. Ofc, 10/10 lol.

I'm not too proud to use it  (depressing thing is I'll probably learn something from it )

MrStoob wrote...

Then we won't buy stupid ****ing helicopters from you that were built for imperial measure and unable to refit to our own specs. That happened apparently lol.

Ah the Apache, what a wheeze - cue the JSF (F-35) next! 

To be fair though - things never went smoothly when both us and the Americans used imperial measures either.  Remember the whole 'gallon' mismatch?

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 11 octobre 2013 - 08:35 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

Ignis Mors wrote...

*Shakes head. This is too complicated. If we had either the star trek or ME translators, I'm pretty sure they would translate between British English and American English. Sigh. One would think that two people, from different countries that speak the same language, would be able to understand one another without the need for translation. 

One would think that two people, from the same country that speak the same language, would be able to understand each other!  Unfortunately here in the merry old UK that ain't necessarily the case.  Scousers , cockneys, Brummies, folks from Yorkshire , Devon .  All of whom are supposed to speak English (British)  Then you throw in the Scots, Irish, and of course the Welsh.

PS - I'm going now.  I think it would be healthier for me if I was on the next flight out of the country

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 11 octobre 2013 - 09:00 .

[Ignis Mors]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

Where / were / we're test:
http://www.saintambr...Homophones2.htm

Yea, it's probably meant for kids but hey. Ofc, 10/10 lol.

I'm not too proud to use it  (depressing thing is I'll probably learn something from it )

MrStoob wrote...

Then we won't buy stupid ****ing helicopters from you that were built for imperial measure and unable to refit to our own specs. That happened apparently lol.

Ah the Apache, what a wheeze - cue the JSF (F-35) next! 

To be fair though - things never went smoothly when both us and the Americans used imperial measures either.  Remember the whole 'gallon' mismatch?

What a wheeze? Please translate. And, if that is insulting the apache, might I mention it is a helicopter that can fly upside down? That seems pretty badass. And gallon mismatch? What was that?

[Fatiguesdualism]

'What a wheeze' = laughing matter/joke - usually used ironically.

Not a dig at the Apache itself, more of yet another 'you couldn't make this stuff up' situation with the UK's government military procurement programmes (check out the SA-80/L85 Rifle for an eye-opener - although the 'upgrading' of the poor Nimrod recon aircraft is another 'classic')

UK gallon = 4.546 litres (app) @ 8 pints of 0.568 litres
US gallon = 3.785 litres (app) @ 8 pints of 0.473 litres

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 11 octobre 2013 - 10:06 .

[MrStoob]

Indeed Fatigues. A friend from Surrey (SE home counties) was once visiting in Liverpool and we got the train into town. There were two lads (around 13years or so), messing around and talking loud and fast. She couldn't understand a word they were saying, hehe. Local accents are difficult to decipher, even for a fellow countryman. More colloquial fun:

English: Hello, my friend
Northern (Scouse): A'right, la
South East (cockney): Watcha, geezer ("lorksh a lordy Mary Poppins, it's a roight ol' peashouper, an' no mishtake" - thank you DVD for another humorous US/UK incident hehe)
Northern (Yorkshire): 'ey up, son
Devon: Alright, my lover
Newcastle: Wae'aye, man
Midlands (Leicester): Y'alright, me ducks
etc.

[MrStoob]

Anyway, sigh. Having got the Blue re-write out of the way, I'm looking at its sequel to upload to AO3 as well as FF. Still unsure on a chapt, one filled with background and exposition. Similarly to Yuri's recent dilemma, it's one of those situations where the info is needed but how to present it. In a nutshell the long paragraphs of text cover everything that explains why the organics are still present in the galaxy after the assault on Sol failed, and what happened in the 30 years since. Within all that as well is how Shepard is feeling about her current situation, how the campaigns have affected her, the melding/protheans/thorian stuff, is she still indoctrinated? All that kind of thing.

It's my own fault. I ended the trilogy one way, then took an extreme turn to get out of it, in that nothing was quite as it appeared. It's quite a wall of exposition and I know readers skimmed the passage because of it, causing questions later, but then do I want to re-write just to take lazy readers into account?

[hot_heart]

When I was at university in Leicester, our neighbours would say 'ay oop'.

I'm currently recovering from a cold, just when I was ready to get a load of writing done (he says, despite GTAV Online beckoning for him to show people how to actually race). Guess I'll see how I feel later.

I've been spending way too long on this chapter, but it's only because I want it to be about something. Maybe I'm forcing too much character breakthrough each chapter. I just don't want it to feel like the story is going through the motions.

[YurigirlzCrush]

most of my advice is from the perspective of a reader, since i'm turning out to be a poor (and slow) writer. *sigh* but Stoob, I have to ask, is there any way you can break up all that background and exposition and sprinkle it into upcoming chapters? because I do have to admit that as a reader, huge blocks of exposition can become a little uninteresting, cause my brain to go all numb and I don't retain a lot of it in the end, even if I don't just skim through it (which I never do. If I'm reading a story, I read all of it). maybe it would help if you break it down, see what needs to be mentioned immediately, and find ways to insert the rest into various parts of the following few chapters?

and you all are killing me with all the brittish colloquialisms! i'm starting to think that even though I technically speak the same language, if I visited the UK, i'd still need a translator! *grins*

[hot_heart]

As YC says, is there no way to break it down and weave it into later bits? Exposition doesn't just have to be long paragraphs of explanation. I tend to pick the pertinent information and link it to character perspective; that should also ensure that it stays in the reader's mind. I'd be tempted to show my own as an example, but I tend to keep it very light and most relies on already existing stuff.

Alternatively, can you not start the story with an introduction that sets up the universe? Nothing too in-depth, but enough detail to get things rolling. Sort of like the Star Wars intro crawl.

[YurigirlzCrush]

Fatiguesdualism wrote...

The 'every other' thing might be another British-isim (or another failing on my part, I've plenty of them ) basically it should mean, one out of two.  For example:  There is a room with six children in it.  If every other child is a boy, how many are girls?  ANS: 3 (There are 3 boys, the rest of them -three- must be girls) 
If every other kid wanted to do option 1, then the rest of them wanted to do something else (probably option 2 - darn kids! )

now that you explained this, it makes sense, but since not many people over here would use those two words together in that context, my mind didn't go there. most people I know in that situation would say something like... half of the children are boys, the rest are girls.

in your passage that I was offering corrections on earlier, I would have rewritten it simply... something along the lines of...

most of your shipmates wanted to do option 1. the rest wanted to do something else.

simply because the most common usage of the words... every other... where I live would be in the context of...

I was the only sane one at the party. every other person there was crazy.

when I read those two words together, or hear them, or say them, i'm used to it being intended literally. like every single person besides that one other guy.

[hot_heart]

Yeah, YC's right. It's about context. The way you've used it sort of creates three 'groups' (Shepard, first lot of kids, second lot of kids) where it can only really be used for two. 'They meet every other Friday' works but 'every other person' when you've already singled out one subject, does not.

In that speech I would also cut down that second mention of the Einstein, so it's just 'wanted to be captain, or a fighter pilot'. And I would have Shepard refer to it as 'that ship' rather than name it as well; sounds a little more disdainful? And maybe take out 'just' in the explore bit.
Agh, I'm in full-on editor mode.

[MrStoob]

'every other child'

In the context of the passage, doesn't it mean 'all the other children', rather than 'some of the other children'? That's how it reads to me anyway.

On my dilemma.  I know what you're saying about making it easier to digest but it'd take a short section, in terms of events/interaction, and make it unnessarily longer.  I dived straight in with the whys and wherefors once Shepard hits the piece because how she is alive and how the fleet is still around are large questions as to how I ended book 1 so I thought they needed answering quickly.  Maybe they don't.  Leave some questions to be answered later, eh?  I can probably extend a Hackett meeting to incorporate some of it, exposition the rest in smaller chunks later.

The passage in question is a bit abstract too, I do have to say.  It's Shepard pondering what actually happened to her over the campaigns and the Citadel, and how she's changed, deep in thought, and I intersperse what happened to the combined fleet.  So yea, probably not the friendliest of passages in the first place.

Talking of abstract.  I did a couple of really short oneshots of... well... really, it's the Leviathan and their early relationship with the 'lesser' species, their early forming symbiosis, and the dark turn it all took.  I purely describe with little reference to anything.  I'm thinking of interespersing those as chapters for a little intrigue, like I said they're quite isolated and abstract so might be fun.  I might even open the whole thing with one, for a 'WTF?' from the readers hehe.  It would make sense as the story unfolds, so I'm hoping it will initially create intrigue but later 'ohhhhh' when it becomes more clear.

Much to the chagrin of my FF readers, I think this one (despite already being 32 chapts and ongoing) is going to get some heavy re-writing TBH.  There's lots I wasn't happy with really.

Waffle done.  

Modifié par MrStoob, 12 octobre 2013 - 02:30 .

[hot_heart]

Yeah, that's what we're saying. It sounds like that, but clearly it wasn't the intention.

[YurigirlzCrush]

so i'm not insane! yay! I was starting to wonder if maybe my brain was simply experiencing a meltdown from too much reading for school. and then what do I do with my free time? read fanfiction and try to write a little... while trying to ignore Wreck-It Ralph. i'm starting to wish my baby sister would go back to watching Brave every day. I can't get this movie out of my head at this point! *bangs head on desk to dislodge the movie quotes*