9962 réponses à ce sujet

[Seracen]

fluffywalrus wrote...

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

this has absolutely nothing to do with ME or fanfics, so I apologize in advance... *sheepish* but anyone who has siblings, have you ever been torn between being really really mad at one for doing something sketchy and wanting to laugh because of their insane-level cruelty?

a few hours ago, I walked into the kitchen to find my youngest sister in tears and devouring cupcakes while the eldest of my younger sisters was practically rolling on the floor laughing in the next room. so... I demanded to know what happened.

has anyone ever seen the Yoplait commercial where there are cupcakes with smiley faces on them and when the woman chooses yogurt instead, they turn to frowny faces? well, Lisa went all out on this one. a half dozen cupcakes with smiley faces, a half dozen with frowny faces, a random comment when my baby sister got an apple for a bedtime snack, a quick switch when Heather's back was turned and... well... Heather hates to disappoint people (and desserts apparently)... *sigh*

does it make me a horrible person that I kinda wanted to hit Lisa and yet I was practically in tears trying to hold in laughter? *hangs head*

Just gotta pop in here and say that's a genius-level prank

...[reads]...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh man, we are burning in Hell for laughing at that one, lol.  Priceless...

In other news, slow going on the final chapter of my fic.  I think I'm doing like...a paragraph a day.  It's more to assuage my guilty conscience than anything else.

In other cases, I might take a break altogether.  However, the past 3 months feel like a long enough break.  If I don't power through, however slowly, I feel like I'll never wrap this up.

Modifié par Seracen, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:47 .

[MrStoob]

RE: Saren (in general) and his lack of markings.

As a person who would go willing to seek domination and 'perfection' from robot overlords, which must have been in his mind even before indoctrination for him to do so, I wouldn't imagine that Saren would be concerned with such arbitrary social conventions as clan markings, or any other 'identity'. How Matriarch Benezia got caught up in all that (beyond what she and Shiala say), I've no idea. Did he contact her first? If not, how did she know what he had planned? Did she glean some information from the withheld Thessian beacon and the Reapers? She didn't seem to be aware that Sovereign was actually a Reaper so that seems unlikely. Anyhoo, I'm pondering out loud now...

Modifié par MrStoob, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:09 .

[Seracen]

MrStoob wrote...

RE: Saren (in general) and his lack of markings.

As a person who would go willing to seek domination and 'perfection' from robot overlords, which must have been in his mind even before indoctrination for him to do so, I wouldn't imagine that Saren would be concerned with such arbitrary social conventions as clan markings, or any other 'identity'. How Matriarch Benezia got caught up in all that (beyond what she and Shiala say), I've no idea. Did he contact her first? If not, how did she know what he had planned? Did she glean some information from the withheld Thessian beacon and the Reapers? She didn't seem to be aware that Sovereign was actually a Reaper so that seems unlikely. Anyhoo, I'm pondering out loud now...

Actually, the way I saw it (and the way ME1 presented it), apparently, no other SPECTRE had abused and betrayed the trust as flagrantly as Saren had.

Now, I don't BELEIVE that assertion for one moment.  However, as the story presented it, Saren seemed to have crossed a boundary no other SPECTRE had before.  This was why it seemed to easy to disregard Shepard's case, prior to Tali's proof.

Moreover, if Benezia truly went to persuade Saren away from "the dark path," as Shiala states it, mere proximity to Sovereign provided enough opportunity for Indoctrination.

It's just funny, because corrupt SPECTRE's seem like a more regular occurence, once we get into ME2.  I would hardly call a trade-off of Benezia for Saren (even if she were succesfull) to be fair.  I mean, you've got a Matriarch who changed the course of her culture's politics versus a mere bigoted SPECTRE (however skilled and accomplished he was).

[Rixatrix]

IdesofJuly wrote...

BlueMoonSeraphim wrote...

 So is anyone doing NaNoWriMo?  I know most people do original works, but fanfiction is also allowed under the rules (at least going by their forums).  Has anyone ever done NaNoWriMo?  It sounds crazy.... 50,000 words in one month!

I'll be doing NaNoWriMo, it's my first year and I'm unsure about what'll happen. I have a beginning, I have an end, I have no idea what'll be in the middle, and that's okay.

I'm almost in the same boat... The middle is sort of murky for me, too, but I am working on an outline.   I've picked up some books on plotting and a short read on Kindle that I'm finding particularly useful.  Being a rebel and doing a fanfic could help a lot if one's trouble is character or worldbuilding, but it seems like pantsing or research & outlining are the only remedies for a plotting weakness?

@Yuri:
That was quite funny!  (And that commercial does not at all dissuade me from cookies!)  Growing up as an only child, I'm a little sad to have missed out on sibling comedy, but my husband has a little brother twenty-five years his junior that makes for some funny stuff.  Last year, his lil bro was obsessed with animal sounds, so during a holiday dinner, my husband was taking care of him and asked, "What sound does a dog make?" and his lil bro replied "Woof woof!"  Then, he asked, "What sound does a cat make?" and his lil bro replied, "MEOW!" Finally, he asked, "What sound does a fish make?"  The dumbfounded look on the little one's face was precious!  

Modifié par BlueMoonSeraphim, 24 octobre 2013 - 07:02 .

[Seracen]

BlueMoonSeraphim wrote...

IdesofJuly wrote...

BlueMoonSeraphim wrote...

 So is anyone doing NaNoWriMo?  I know most people do original works, but fanfiction is also allowed under the rules (at least going by their forums).  Has anyone ever done NaNoWriMo?  It sounds crazy.... 50,000 words in one month!

I'll be doing NaNoWriMo, it's my first year and I'm unsure about what'll happen. I have a beginning, I have an end, I have no idea what'll be in the middle, and that's okay.

I'm almost in the same boat... The middle is sort of murky for me, too, but I am working on an outline.   I've picked up some books on plotting and a short read on Kindle that I'm finding particularly useful.  Being a rebel and doing a fanfic could help a lot if one's trouble is character or worldbuilding, but it seems like pantsing or research & outlining are the only remedies for a plotting weakness?

@Yuri:
That was quite funny!  (And that commercial does not at all dissuade me from cookies!)  Growing up as an only child, I'm a little sad to have missed out on sibling comedy, but my husband has a little brother twenty-five years his junior that makes for some funny stuff.  Last year, his lil bro was obsessed with animal sounds, so during a holiday dinner, my husband was taking care of him and asked, "What sound does a dog make?" and his lil bro replied "Woof woof!"  Then, he asked, "What sound does a cat make?" and his lil bro replied, "MEOW!" Finally, he asked, "What sound does a fish make?"  The dumbfounded look on the little one's face was precious!  

Requisite "what does the fox say" pun!  Also, that's adorable!

I dunno, the middle is the best part for me, usually.  I love the waffling about and the journey of the adventure.  I wouldn't say endings are hard.  Usually, I come up with the ending alongside the premise of the beginning.

What I will say is that it's difficult to stay motivated, by the time I reach the end, as in my current case.  I am chomping at the bit to start two other stories, but I am stalled on writing the end of my current one.

[MrStoob]

Seracen wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

RE: Saren (in general) and his lack of markings.

As a person who would go willing to seek domination and 'perfection' from robot overlords, which must have been in his mind even before indoctrination for him to do so, I wouldn't imagine that Saren would be concerned with such arbitrary social conventions as clan markings, or any other 'identity'. How Matriarch Benezia got caught up in all that (beyond what she and Shiala say), I've no idea. Did he contact her first? If not, how did she know what he had planned? Did she glean some information from the withheld Thessian beacon and the Reapers? She didn't seem to be aware that Sovereign was actually a Reaper so that seems unlikely. Anyhoo, I'm pondering out loud now...

Actually, the way I saw it (and the way ME1 presented it), apparently, no other SPECTRE had abused and betrayed the trust as flagrantly as Saren had.

Now, I don't BELEIVE that assertion for one moment.  However, as the story presented it, Saren seemed to have crossed a boundary no other SPECTRE had before.  This was why it seemed to easy to disregard Shepard's case, prior to Tali's proof.

Moreover, if Benezia truly went to persuade Saren away from "the dark path," as Shiala states it, mere proximity to Sovereign provided enough opportunity for Indoctrination.

It's just funny, because corrupt SPECTRE's seem like a more regular occurence, once we get into ME2.  I would hardly call a trade-off of Benezia for Saren (even if she were succesfull) to be fair.  I mean, you've got a Matriarch who changed the course of her culture's politics versus a mere bigoted SPECTRE (however skilled and accomplished he was).

Is any of this covered in official publications?  I still wonder, because it seemed that Sovereign specifically contacted the geth, and messing with their heads, as it were, then how/why as much as Benezia did Saren get involved?  Did they send him an email?  I mean, I know they probably needed the Prothean blah-de-blah to take control of the Citadel and Conduit thingy-thing and so needed the assistance of an organic but still.  Why was it again specifically that the Reapers didn't just reap this time around like normal and went through this convoluted exercise?  If Sovereign really saw this as a good scheme, they should have just kept shtum about the Conduit, get Saren to waltz onto the Citadel, and boom, Reaper invasion.  I'm sure I'm probably forgetting something as to why Sovereign decided on this course of action but it's late so I'll stop.

Modifié par MrStoob, 24 octobre 2013 - 10:38 .

[YurigirlzCrush]

MrStoob wrote...

Is any of this covered in official publications?  I still wonder, because it seemed that Sovereign specifically contacted the geth, and messing with their heads, as it were, then how/why as much as Benezia did Saren get involved?  Did they send him an email?  I mean, I know they probably needed the Prothean blah-de-blah to take control of the Citadel and Conduit thingy-thing and so needed the assistance of an organic but still.  Why was it again specifically that the Reapers didn't just reap this time around like normal and went through this convoluted exercise?  If Sovereign really saw this as a good scheme, they should have just kept shtum about the Conduit, get Saren to waltz onto the Citadel, and boom, Reaper invasion.  I'm sure I'm probably forgetting something as to why Sovereign decided on this course of action but it's late so I'll stop.

*ponders* on second thought, I take it all back. i'm not getting involved in another debate about why I disagree about the plot holes in ME1. better to just get back to my schoolwork! *waves*

Modifié par YurigirlzCrush, 24 octobre 2013 - 11:36 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I've gone through ME1 and it's enough to make my head hurt. The irrefutable evidence that Tali gets from some random Geth that she followed to some random planet somewhere because she was "curious". Now this while Geth share data, come on, the entire memory core of this Geth was fried EXCEPT for the critical information. And the Geth unit was in direct communication with the Geth unit OR was the Geth unit that happened to be standing next to Benezia and Saren on the Bridge of Sovereign. Then she contacts the Shadow Broker, sets up a meeting and somehow gets back to the Citadel about the same time you do because you can get to her within an hour after your meeting with the Council.

So you're out for 15 hours, then when you wake up Joker is taking you in to the Citadel, "It's quite a view." And you've got a meeting with the council right away. Then you can see Barla Von. Then meet Wrex. Then meet Fist, then see Tali. All right there within 24 hours.

Tali has been following this Geth platform around and ... and ... sneaking around ... damn has she got stealth skillz.... and if you're lucky .... you can get the memory core without them frying completely, and it just happens to have this recording on it that she could have made in her basement from voice samples.... you know like Kasumi did in ME2. And this is "Irrefutable Evidence".

Tali is the hero of the entire series. Shepard owe his/her career to her. The Galaxy owes it's survival to Tali.

Okay how much of ME1 are we retconning....... Tali is on Eden Prime in a security shack monitoring Saren shooting Nihlus, and a security monitor picks up Saren contacting Benezia on Sovereign. She's putting together the entire thing like Veetor did. Okay. There's your irrefutable evidence part 1.

And one other thing -- Sovereign didn't attack the Citadel because the Destiny Ascension would give him a run for his money. Joker - "The Destiny Ascension's main gun has more firepower than the entire Asari fleet combined!" Asari Fleet has 19 dreadnoughts. DA = 1 shot > 19 dreadnoughts = dead Sovvy = no Shepard hero of the Citadel.

[Seracen]

Well, if we are picking out plotholes, or plots of convenience, we will be here all day, lol!

Also, it isn't as if BW is the only one who've crafted stories that do this. I can ignore/accept it as long as the ride is smooth and entertaining.

Arguments of "dissonance" and "narrative cohesion" blah blah blah...

@ Stoob: Sovereign seemed to be using the methods he did because the Keepers refused to respond the way they had in prior cycles. Now, I would argue that Sovereign's method was useless, actually a worse way to go about it.

Sure, the Reapers wouldn't have had the immediate stab at the Citadel. However, lack of any warning would likely be enough for the Reapers to simply steamroll the galaxy, even if jumping in from outer Mass Relays.

[YurigirlzCrush]

I agree with Seracen. this is a conversation that never goes anywhere because opinions differ greatly and no one (me included) ever acknowledges anyone else's points could be valid if they happen to disagree. which was why I deleted my original response to Stoob's question.

I personally feel that people are way too nitpicky over ME1. I won't get into specifics and this is the last thing I will say about it because this is a convo I am too tired of to rehash for the millionth time, but personally, I thought the plot of ME1 was pretty solid when I finished ME1 (not perfect, but solid). it was the introduction of material in the later games that turned certain elements of ME1 into plot holes. they were fine when ME1 was viewed alone. but later revelations made things that made sense at the time seem silly and contradictory in hindsight.


now, on less incendiary subjects (and more on-topic for this thread! *smiles*) I asked another friend about this recently and I loved her advice, but I want to see if opinions vary on the matter... when you're writing a story that is a mix of things (say... romance and mystery) how do you manage to balance the plot? too much romance and the mystery the characters are following suffers and sort of loses impact. but too much mystery and the romantic elements fall flat.

now I know not everyone writes romance, but the question applies to any story I think (unless you're like... writing one non-stop action piece, I guess). so my general question is, how do you balance character and plot to make sure neither one suffers over the course of the story?

[MrStoob]

Seracen wrote...

Well, if we are picking out plotholes, or plots of convenience, we will be here all day, lol!

Also, it isn't as if BW is the only one who've crafted stories that do this. I can ignore/accept it as long as the ride is smooth and entertaining.

Arguments of "dissonance" and "narrative cohesion" blah blah blah...

@ Stoob: Sovereign seemed to be using the methods he did because the Keepers refused to respond the way they had in prior cycles. Now, I would argue that Sovereign's method was useless, actually a worse way to go about it.

Sure, the Reapers wouldn't have had the immediate stab at the Citadel. However, lack of any warning would likely be enough for the Reapers to simply steamroll the galaxy, even if jumping in from outer Mass Relays.

Ah yea, that was the vital bit of plot I was missing: the Keepers not responding.  Still, it would have been easier to just send Saren to the Citadel, take control of the command whatsit, then the geth fleet + Sovereign roll in, rather than involving all and sundry in the whole affair, and wearing a big sign saying "Impending doom, this way."

Anyway, Saren could have easily scuppered the Prothean beacon before being offski...  Yea, yea, I know, you got to have some suspension of disbelief and just roll with it but, you know.  Sometimes...

Modifié par MrStoob, 25 octobre 2013 - 11:53 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

now I know not everyone writes romance, but the question applies to any story I think (unless you're like... writing one non-stop action piece, I guess). so my general question is, how do you balance character and plot to make sure neither one suffers over the course of the story?

I don't know. I just sketch out the plot and let my characters drive it. I'm still learning this stuff. I wrote some stuff years ago and someone thought I could write. I wrote some stuff recently and someone thought I could write. My stuff is primarily character driven, and I'm good with suspense. Weakness is details.

I'm guessing it depends upon what you're writing. If you're writing a mystery that has a lot of suspense in it, but you want romance in it as well, I'd say to always leave your reader wanting more of the romance. Do the romantic elements well, but don't do too many of them.

Just my opinion. I'm probably wrong.

[Seracen]

I always like to incorporate some level of romance in my stories, just to give the characters a break from the action. I have made this comparison before, but I call it "reader fatigue."

If you are doing nonstop action, nonstop drama, nonstop ANYTHING, you aren't letting your characters OR the audience take a break. They NEED that breather to simply process whatever you've written. As an author, YOU need that downtime to develop a properly paced story.

Honestly, writing one giant climax of a story, with no dips and valleys, would be a very taxing process for the author and the audience. Furthermore, without the downtime to compare it against, there's no reason to appreciate the funny/scary/action/romance bits.

I tend to write however the story flows. I have all the major beats hashed out, and plan for there to be a few downtime moments between each climactic plot point. To put it in paper, it might sound like a 50/50 mix, but it tends to be more of a 30% downtime to action ratio.

As for the romance elements, I spread those thin. I prefer small snippets that establish the relationships, versus "THIS IS YOUR ROMANCE CHAPTER." However, my characters in the current story have jobs to do, so we don't see THAT much romance, except for the downtime bits.

I also had one or two explicit scenes, but that's about it. I think this is partially because I don't want to alienate the readers who have their own shipping. I personally don't care what romance is in the ME fic, as I played all of them out. Still, I suppose it's one way for me to appeal to more people. I reiterate that I am not censoring my romance choices, just not bashing folks over the head with it.

As for mystery/intrigue, I sprinkle a bit here and there. This is the trickiest part. Too much, and you give the plot away. Too little, and the twists seem to come out of nowhere. Each author has to find their own balance, in relation to the mystery being revealed.

I'll stop rambling now...

[Redbelle]

Seracen wrote...

I always like to incorporate some level of romance in my stories, just to give the characters a break from the action. I have made this comparison before, but I call it "reader fatigue."

If you are doing nonstop action, nonstop drama, nonstop ANYTHING, you aren't letting your characters OR the audience take a break. They NEED that breather to simply process whatever you've written. As an author, YOU need that downtime to develop a properly paced story.

Honestly, writing one giant climax of a story, with no dips and valleys, would be a very taxing process for the author and the audience. Furthermore, without the downtime to compare it against, there's no reason to appreciate the funny/scary/action/romance bits.

I tend to write however the story flows. I have all the major beats hashed out, and plan for there to be a few downtime moments between each climactic plot point. To put it in paper, it might sound like a 50/50 mix, but it tends to be more of a 30% downtime to action ratio.

As for the romance elements, I spread those thin. I prefer small snippets that establish the relationships, versus "THIS IS YOUR ROMANCE CHAPTER." However, my characters in the current story have jobs to do, so we don't see THAT much romance, except for the downtime bits.

I also had one or two explicit scenes, but that's about it. I think this is partially because I don't want to alienate the readers who have their own shipping. I personally don't care what romance is in the ME fic, as I played all of them out. Still, I suppose it's one way for me to appeal to more people. I reiterate that I am not censoring my romance choices, just not bashing folks over the head with it.

As for mystery/intrigue, I sprinkle a bit here and there. This is the trickiest part. Too much, and you give the plot away. Too little, and the twists seem to come out of nowhere. Each author has to find their own balance, in relation to the mystery being revealed.

I'll stop rambling now...

On the topic of romance.... If you've been keeping up with the Battle for London thread you'll have seen that 4 of the contributer's have paired off four of the characters into couples.......... And yes..... They have.

Now it's nothing tawdy or graphic. These are character's in high tension situations and one of the over-riding factors at play is that they may never see another tomorrow.

Then we get into the personal circumstances of the characters from a gang hit orphan, to an overcompensating social recluse amputee prosethetic user, to a withdrawn Quarian with low self esteem and a tortured Asari with phychological issues.......

Overcoming the demands of war is one thing. Seeing these characters overcome, or find a way around their own issues to bring someone in line with their own lives is another demand that just seems to happen.

I like to equate BW games to table top RPG'S where you have all these rules designed to aid the progression of the game. And in those game BW made that are more in tune with TTRPG's, they had romance..... And then fans modded in more romance options.

I would say, do not shy away from romance, despite the calls of some gamers to lose it because it makes them uncomfortable. That's their issue to work through. In fact, I would go further as to say that the romance side of a game does not make them uncomfortable..... it's talking about romancing an NPC on the forums that makes them uncomfortable. It's an easily remedied problem in that they don't have to discuss which LI is 'better'. But they do. It's in some gamers nature to share on these forums without first thinking of the ramifications of what they say.

The other apsect of romance is..... what is the end game?...... I think that a bad way to look at romance. A romance does not stop when you bed a character..... Going back to BG2 there was a character that, if you accept her offer for sex, without reading into her discomfort or that she is feeling pressured into the act, she leaves the party. Chaste romances are as valid as sexual ones if that is an avenue the character wishes to pursue. It is the consequences that have to be played out in either event. Not the act in and of itself.

[Seracen]

Redbelle wrote...

On the topic of romance.... If you've been keeping up with the Battle for London thread you'll have seen that 4 of the contributer's have paired off four of the characters into couples.......... And yes..... They have.

Now it's nothing tawdy or graphic. These are character's in high tension situations and one of the over-riding factors at play is that they may never see another tomorrow.

Then we get into the personal circumstances of the characters from a gang hit orphan, to an overcompensating social recluse amputee prosethetic user, to a withdrawn Quarian with low self esteem and a tortured Asari with phychological issues.......

Overcoming the demands of war is one thing. Seeing these characters overcome, or find a way around their own issues to bring someone in line with their own lives is another demand that just seems to happen.

I like to equate BW games to table top RPG'S where you have all these rules designed to aid the progression of the game. And in those game BW made that are more in tune with TTRPG's, they had romance..... And then fans modded in more romance options.

I would say, do not shy away from romance, despite the calls of some gamers to lose it because it makes them uncomfortable. That's their issue to work through. In fact, I would go further as to say that the romance side of a game does not make them uncomfortable..... it's talking about romancing an NPC on the forums that makes them uncomfortable. It's an easily remedied problem in that they don't have to discuss which LI is 'better'. But they do. It's in some gamers nature to share on these forums without first thinking of the ramifications of what they say.

The other apsect of romance is..... what is the end game?...... I think that a bad way to look at romance. A romance does not stop when you bed a character..... Going back to BG2 there was a character that, if you accept her offer for sex, without reading into her discomfort or that she is feeling pressured into the act, she leaves the party. Chaste romances are as valid as sexual ones if that is an avenue the character wishes to pursue. It is the consequences that have to be played out in either event. Not the act in and of itself.

I'll have to check the thread out.  As far as romance, I've never actually shied away from it in my story.  Yet I never felt the need to have every chapter rife with it.

Concern over shipping is only a slight deferral for me.  I still have tidbits here and there.  I just find the tender moments of intimacy, added up over time, to be of more impact.  This is preferable to Liara treating Shepard like any other friend, until right before the end mission and suddently it's SEXY TIME!

But again, I stagger the romance against the action, the action against the mystery, and all of that drama against downtime.

I will agree that I find romance necessary in many of these story cases.  From a character point of view, it's a coping mechanism.  Furthermore, beyond biological imperative, it's a personal pursuit for any being to find their perfect soul mate.

I also disagree with folks who shy away from the romance, thinking it's juvenile or tawdry.  It isn't wrong to assume that the romance is a culmination of the emotional investment from the characters.  As you say, it is the finale, the crescendo that mimics the climax of the story itself.

Detractors tend to confuse the game mechanics of wooing their LI with real-life relationship dynamics.  In truth, making that intimate connection is satisfying and gratifying to the writer, character, and audience.

Modifié par Seracen, 26 octobre 2013 - 02:40 .

[YurigirlzCrush]

I prefer romance stories to anything else. I'm not very into action (despite what my gaming habits might indicate), so the story i'm working on will not have a great deal of intricate action bits. trying to write action and make it interesting actually makes me a bit nervous. *frowns*

my story idea is primarily a romance (and the first story I've ever written, so it's daunting and really important to me that I get it right). but the romance will be slow to build because at the start the characters don't even know each other and are brought together by outside events. I need to balance that outside situation against the downtime and personal interaction that will let the characters get to know each other and build a connection, so i'm trying to fine tune my overall plot outline now to balance the two appropriately.

RE: LI-related issues, I never understood why people wanted them taken out. you don't have to romance anyone if that's not your cup of tea. but that was part of the draw that hooked me so much on BW games was the romance (and not just a prewritten love interest, but options!!! though admittedly limited for girls like me). my desire to play and become invested in a game is dramatically increased if I can A) play a female character (honestly, I think every game should have the option of a female protagonist in this day and age), and enjoy at least a sprinkling of romantic/personal content. it helps me to establish a connection to the game if I can relate to it in some way, and let's face it... being a super soldier or cyborg or ninja assassin are not things I can relate to. but throw in some romantic elements or even just some good solid friendships with other characters and there are elements I can identify with.

this was the biggest reason I stopped playing the Assassin's Creed games. The first two kept me interested enough to finish them, but being forced to play a male character throughout and not really caring about any of the relationships that were developed worked together to just grind all the interest out of me. *shrugs* I don't even think of buying games anymore unless a female protagonist is an option (or unless there's no real protagonist per se, such as games like Battlefield/Titanfall)

[Seracen]

Well, I never had a problem with female protagonists (Remember Me, Beyond Good and Evil, Mirror's Edge, Metroid). I am more concerned with these characters being part of a compelling story.

Arguably, I think FemShep has the most nuanced and fleshed out story of any female protagonist of recent note. Conversely, I also dislike weak stories with male protagonists as well.

Nor does the hallmark of good storytelling REQUIRE romance elements. However, I find that the longer a game runs, the more I desire such elements, simply to have a more relatable and intimate goal. Revenge/saving the world is good and all, but something more light-hearted and hopeful helps.

[Rixatrix]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...
my desire to play and become invested in a game is dramatically increased if I can A) play a female character (honestly, I think every game should have the option of a female protagonist in this day and age), and enjoy at least a sprinkling of romantic/personal content. it helps me to establish a connection to the game if I can relate to it in some way, and let's face it... being a super soldier or cyborg or ninja assassin are not things I can relate to. but throw in some romantic elements or even just some good solid friendships with other characters and there are elements I can identify with.

Just wanted to say that I thoroughly agree with this.  I played a lot of games growing up where I was forced into the role of a male protagonist if I wanted to play a game, but the characters, interactions, story, etc. kept me entertained.  However, once I started playing games with female protags, I found out that it really did matter... I was much more invested in those games.  I too find it hard to believe that female protags are not available in more games (selectable male or female).

And honestly, your point B should be in a vast majority of games.  Don't relationships, whether they be friendships, familial, romantic, etc. (pick your preference) make a story richer?

[Efvie]

Seracen wrote...

It's just funny, because corrupt SPECTRE's seem like a more regular occurence, once we get into ME2. 

Corrupt is a hard word. I’m not sure if you’ve read* any of the memoirs/revelation books about especially the early years of intelligence agencies (MI, CIA, KGB etc.), but covert ops, especially active, tend to get pretty hairy… the world’s a complex place.



* It’s not necessarily a good idea for those valuing sanity.

[hot_heart]

Can't make an omelette without hiding a few skeletons in closets.

[Seracen]

I don't mean morally gray stuff. Espionage makes it's living in the morally ambiguous. When I say corrupt, I mean flat out completely fallen from grace stuff. When someone other than the Council is writing those checks, a SPECTRE has lost whatever autonomy justified their actions.  They are supposed to pump their assets for resources, not become beholden to them.  That's likely why the whole Cerberus team-up haunts Shep so hard in ME3. Then again, they DID resurrect him.

Of course, burning one's assets is a common fallback in such cases.  And the Council can maintain plausible deniablity.  However, it seems they are unfamiliar with or unwilling to engage in such behavior in ME1 (except with Shep).

Modifié par Seracen, 27 octobre 2013 - 03:35 .

[MrStoob]

Romance eh? I like it to be pretty organic, like it's always there. Rather than, as said above, "THIS IS YOUR ROMANCE CHAPTER!", every scene is an opportunity for a few words, or a look, a joke, or some small sign between the lovers. Genuine romantic scenes of 'I love you' need a LOT of ground work for them to be believable IMO. Striking a balance between plot/action and romance? Suppose it depends on what you set out to write in the first place. I'm still a bit unsure about that in myself to be honest. My first posted shorty was a bit angsty and dealt with a difficulty between Shep/Liara, and that seems to have been the standard thus far: fun fluff romance, interspersed with troubled waters for the lovers, with plot progression tertiary to the writing. Not too bad for an ME FF, because the story just progresses on its own in the background, I just drop timeline references in at appropriate moments and concentrate on how it's all affecting the characters.

In other news...
I've been playing XCom a lot, great game. There's your squad of soldiers who you direct to do the fighting, all with slight variations on the standard 'grunt bravado' but pretty generic. Except one, whose voice stood out to my ears instantly. Yup, still carrying the soldier card, Kimberly Brooks (AKA Ashley Williams). Quite a coup for Fixaris to get such a good voice actor for their venture, but I thought a bit of a downstep for Kimberly, it being such a low key role.

RE: Saren
As Grunt 2 (she had a name, I know) once said, "If you have to deny the action, it was a crappy action in the first place."

[AustereLemur799]

MrStoob wrote...

Seracen wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

RE: Saren (in general) and his lack of markings.

As a person who would go willing to seek domination and 'perfection' from robot overlords, which must have been in his mind even before indoctrination for him to do so, I wouldn't imagine that Saren would be concerned with such arbitrary social conventions as clan markings, or any other 'identity'. How Matriarch Benezia got caught up in all that (beyond what she and Shiala say), I've no idea. Did he contact her first? If not, how did she know what he had planned? Did she glean some information from the withheld Thessian beacon and the Reapers? She didn't seem to be aware that Sovereign was actually a Reaper so that seems unlikely. Anyhoo, I'm pondering out loud now...

Actually, the way I saw it (and the way ME1 presented it), apparently, no other SPECTRE had abused and betrayed the trust as flagrantly as Saren had.

Now, I don't BELEIVE that assertion for one moment.  However, as the story presented it, Saren seemed to have crossed a boundary no other SPECTRE had before.  This was why it seemed to easy to disregard Shepard's case, prior to Tali's proof.

Moreover, if Benezia truly went to persuade Saren away from "the dark path," as Shiala states it, mere proximity to Sovereign provided enough opportunity for Indoctrination.

It's just funny, because corrupt SPECTRE's seem like a more regular occurence, once we get into ME2.  I would hardly call a trade-off of Benezia for Saren (even if she were succesfull) to be fair.  I mean, you've got a Matriarch who changed the course of her culture's politics versus a mere bigoted SPECTRE (however skilled and accomplished he was).

Is any of this covered in official publications?  I still wonder, because it seemed that Sovereign specifically contacted the geth, and messing with their heads, as it were, then how/why as much as Benezia did Saren get involved?  Did they send him an email?  I mean, I know they probably needed the Prothean blah-de-blah to take control of the Citadel and Conduit thingy-thing and so needed the assistance of an organic but still.  Why was it again specifically that the Reapers didn't just reap this time around like normal and went through this convoluted exercise?  If Sovereign really saw this as a good scheme, they should have just kept shtum about the Conduit, get Saren to waltz onto the Citadel, and boom, Reaper invasion.  I'm sure I'm probably forgetting something as to why Sovereign decided on this course of action but it's late so I'll stop.

Sorry if this is a bit late or if someone else has already said what I have (or if what I'm about to say isn't relevant at all - hey, I always run that risk ).

I'm glad that you asked this question! 

I'm actually addressing these issues in my own fic - including how Benezia gets involved (also I introduce the beacon on Thessia at the time of ME1, but oh well!).

From my understanding - I've read Drew Karpyshyn's novels (but probably didn't retain the info very well because my memory is like a sieve at the best of times ) - Saren met Sovereign at the end of Revelation. Of course it was firstly the batarians who discovered and had all this data (incident with Kahlee Sanders at Sidon etc etc - without too many spoilers). Saren claimed all this data for himself while disowning Anderson and blaming everything on him.

However, that is not Saren's first encounter with Reaper tech. His first was with the Monolith during the First Contact War. His brother, Desolas, and eventually Jack Harper (Illusive Man) and his team get in the mix. Desolas moved the Monolith to a temple which turned other turians into the husks that we know. In the end the temple was blown up and covered-up as a biohazard.

Saren sacrificed his brother but vowed to avenge him. After that, Saren became a Spectre. I believe that his journey as a Spectre was all to avenge his brother and what happened at the temple on Palaven. Encountering Saren in that mission with Anderson was a step towards his goal. That, in turn, led him to Benezia - who obviously had knowledge of the beacon on Thessia as evidenced in ME3 when Liara mentions that Benezia has encrypted files on the temple where the beacon is kept, not to mention the fact that Benezia took Liara to the temple as a child - perhaps in the hopes of pointing her in that direction when Liara grew up.

Sorry but I could go on about this for hours! 

As for the geth, they were in a convenient position to take advantage of. They'd had a bad experience with organics but they were also AI which made them susceptible to manipulated by higher powers (Reapers and maybe even Leviathans - but I really won't go into the latter).

The Conduit was specifically a back door - the last Protheans gave their lives to create that. In that light, no one on the Citadel could open a door for a Reaper invasion. It needed the backdoor from Ilos. I know this isn't really explained in ME1, but I still have to assume that it counted on a backdoor. I know that everyone taking that relay from Ilos ended up on the Presidium on the Citadel (the Relay Monument). I suppose we just have to assume some other backdoor programs or whatever.

Basically it takes a lot of imagination, but we're all writers, hey! :happy:

My very personal opinion is that the asari knew about the Reapers. The asari kept hold of their beacon, defying Council law (Council law demands that everyone turns over Prothean tech), and gained all their technological advances from it - including knowledge of the Reapers.

I just think that the asari are arrogant (much like the human-form Replicators in Stargate:Atlantis were with regards to the Wraith). I also think that's why they eventually apprise Shepard in ME3 - they expected the beacon (its knowledge) to protect them from all threats, but lost their nerve when every other species was getting defeated and the war was being lost.

Sorry for all this, and sorry if all this was irrelevant! I would be more than happy to discuss this and other theories in more detail if anyone is ever interested!

By the way, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone on here for putting up with me again!

All the best 

Modifié par AustereLemur799, 27 octobre 2013 - 09:08 .

[MrStoob]

Ohhhh that's interesting, the bit about Saren and 'Jack Harper' being involved with this 'monolith'. Did it perchance have indoctrinating powers?

Also, interesting take re: Thessian beacon. I've played with that within the total ME3 arc, and it being the asari's dirty little secret. I made it the cause of Benezia and Aethyta's 'break up'.

[Seracen]

MrStoob wrote...

Ohhhh that's interesting, the bit about Saren and 'Jack Harper' being involved with this 'monolith'. Did it perchance have indoctrinating powers?

Also, interesting take re: Thessian beacon. I've played with that within the total ME3 arc, and it being the asari's dirty little secret. I made it the cause of Benezia and Aethyta's 'break up'.

Well, Jack Harper's eyes came about due to him breaking free of the monolith before full indoctrination could occur.

I find it more interesting that more overt indoctrination didn't occur until AFTER TIM injected himself with that Reaper cocktail.