9961 réponses à ce sujet

[Ursakar]

I just thought that there was a problem with my writing style, that maybe I'm writing too much details and it makes my chapters a bit bloated.

[fainmaca]

Dang it! I post something and by the time I'm done typing I've missed a bunch of posts.

On chapter length- go with what works best for you. Its important that you tell the plot point you want to tell without having to cut it off prematurely. For example, as Lillitheris has stated, I write one chapter per mission, keeping it a self-contained event of itself. However, i mostly do this to keep the story modular, as I write in a fashion that closely emulates the game, meaning that the collection of missions from any given 'Act' can be done in any order. E.g.in the current 'Act', I have chapters dealing with the founding of a new Krogan Empire, driving the Reapers off Thessia, finding the Rachni on a devastated Illium, visiting the heart of Batarian political power, investigating an ancient Prothean ruin, going to the Migrant Fleet to stop Daro'Xen from starting a civil war, and investigating a rogue Cerberus facility. These missions could have been done in any order, so keeping the one chapter= one mission helps me with this modular structure.

However, another story may require that individual plot points within a mission be given a chapter all to theirselves. Sometimes tis takes only a couple of thousand words. Sometimes it takes over 20k.

in the end, decide what you want to say in a chapter, and don't let word count limits or goals get in the way of that.

[fluffywalrus]

Ursakar wrote...

I have a question to all other writers, if someone is willing to offer an advice.

How do you people manage to write chapters that are only 5-6k words long and make those chapters, you know, complete. Because whenever I try I always end up having a chapter that is at least 10k words. And usually when I reach the 10k words I'm getting carried away and the chapter ends up being even longer (my current record is CH11 that is 19k words long). I can’t even finish the last chapter because it is already 11k word and I feel it will take at least 1k words to finish it.

Am I doing something wrong?

You aren't doing anything wrong, per se. It's an author's personal interpretation that defines what a chapter entails.
If you need 10k words per chapter, that's your style. Don't feel that you need to bend knee to others and follow a trend.

I write small segments, giving most a beginning, middle and end. That way, when I'm done three or four major ones, I can finish the chapter so long as it makes sense as an end, and it accomplishes what I wanted it to from the start. I can normally do that, but sometimes I decide I need to cut a chapter into a smaller portion(I had one chapter gearing up to probably reach 10k by the time I was done...I wasn't comfortable with that, so I decided for pacing purposes that I'd chop it up into two 5k parts.

If 10k works for you, if you're comfortable with it, then stick with it. Don't be worried about too many details...some of us detail-loving readers will soak that up.

gearseffect wrote...
Liara changed with each game, and now I'm just gonna say it, to me those
sudden character changes that go so far and erratic like hers did,
really put me off to her character. Hell I'd forgotten why I'd even
liked and grew to love Liara in ME1 so well.

Hell I remember
back when Samara was first reviled I hated her, because her boobs looked
fake and I wanted Liara back. Look how well that went as soon as I went
to Illium Liara was all rage and I was like this isn't Liara, holy
hell. Then Samara's intro and wham game over she had me smitten right
then and there. And I only became more smitten with her as the game
progressed.

Hell these weird erratic things with Liara are
partly why I created the discontented plot line. But take my word I have
more reasons and a grand plain with that plot line that I hope will
just drop people leaving them floored.

However I'd also dreaded
writing Liara after playing ME3, because well I'd been so revelted and
pushed away by how BW kept forcing her my way, and I didn't want to
write hating Liara, I wanted to write not knowing Liara anymore.
Thankfully Midnightraith's first chapter is to her Fanfic has done a
good job allowing me to rediscover Liara and why I'd loved her in ME1,
By Midnight exploring her Shep's and Liara's ME1 relationship I've been
able to rediscover what I'd loved about her.

Liara's shift kind of makes sense, really. It's jarring, and is supposed to be, and they DID retcon a bit of it with LotSB...but in the grand scheme of things, it made sense. At least, to me.

As for Liara being 'forced' on players in ME3...not so. It's odd that they placed as much focus on her as a squadmate, but she's always been devoted...fiercely devoted...to Shepard. She's smart, she knows that without Shepard, the Reapers probably win, so she wants to make sure Thessia is there to return to, that space-faring life continues to exist, that the Reapers are destroyed. She's an archaeologist, so the time capsule makes perfect sense too. Her "gift" meld at the end of the game is simply to give Shep some tranquility before the final push. Could be more than that with her as a LI, but in the end, she's there as a devoted follower and(if you allow it) friend. I will say that her visiting you after the dream is a bit much for a character that may not be intimate with Shep, and it could have been shifted around the game's timeline to accomodate the LI helping them out. *shrug*
But the thing is, if you have Liara as a LI...you pretty much don't get anything more than those scenes, outside of the obligatory Pre-cerberus base scene and the "flatterer" scene in Liara's den.

In the end, Liara means well. Even if she overthinks things, and makes poor decisions at times. I can understand WHY you came to dislike her as a character. Many did for the same reasons. I just think people need to cut her some slack.

[fainmaca]

Ursakar wrote...

I just thought that there was a problem with my writing style, that maybe I'm writing too much details and it makes my chapters a bit bloated.

I once wrote a chapter that ran to 70k+ words. The readers loved it. Don't worry about chapter length. Just make sure you've got quality in what you've written, and you'll be fine. Sure, you may lose out on a few who want to read shorter stuff, but you'll gain those who like to sit and get lost in the fiction. I personally think those are the best readers of all.

[MrStoob]

I treat each 'chapter' usually like one 'scene'. It's as long as it needs to be. One reviewer said that they could see one in comic form and that's probably a good comparison. I grew up with comics, mainly 2000AD (when it was good...), faves being Dredd, Slaine, ABC Warriors, Nemesis, Ballad of Halo Jones, etc. (the classics), so possibly I'm writing more like that. I could probably take several of my short 'chapters' and make one larger chapter, but I like the snapshot type effect of them currently so meh lol.

I do find myself avoiding describing the locations in any detail as I find it superfluous to my 'style'. I'm more interested in dialogue, interaction and 'feelings'. This probably causes my stuff to be quite short, but if it doesn't add anything to the scene then do people care about the dimensions of the room, what colour it is, what technology is present, etc? Also, if I say, 'Liara enters the plush lounge', people know what a lounge is and what a plush lounge might be like, just for example.

[gearseffect]

@fainmaca the love boat. Haha in ME3 the Normandy was the love boat only problem was my Shep was the only one not getting any chance to try and find his love. Liara kept trying to ride him like a wild lust crazed ex-girlfriend. He was non to found of it. Haha Sorry just had to say the Liara bit there. Come on how the hell do you think she likes it?

My Shep don't have any feelings behind his memories of Liara it's like a movie when he thinks about 'em. He feels nothing it's blank. And Liara don't get why she loves him still, and he's become so cold and only wants Samara. She's bond to be bitter as all hell she just don't get what's up with him

OK now the Love boat, Wrex and Eve, Garrus and Tali, Joker and EDI, Ken and Gabby, Chakwas and Adams, Anderson and Kahlee, TIM and Jena from Flux, Jacob Taylor and Kasumi. (hey I always supported that couple and BW had to go bring Bynn into things jerks ruined that plan for me), Samantha and Edi, Samantha and Allers, it was the love boat. Hell even that one couple from ME1 one the lady her kid and her dead husbands brother is her new lover or dad to the kid.

Anyway I don't ever get anyone shipping character together,, but then I don't have as huge and vast content as you fainmaca. Word of advice fainmaca don't have Samara shack up with anyone. I'll find you and honor my oath to her to honor thy lover, I will not tolerate such defamation of her character.

Haha sorry had to joke, I don't know if I'd cave and have Garrus shacking up with that chick if you'd viewed their relationship as a brother/sister type on I wouldn't do it. It would be odd I think.

[Smugglers Luck]

Do you guys have advice on how to handle oneshots? Like how to get more story out of less detail?

Modifié par Smugglers Luck, 14 juin 2012 - 11:19 .

[hot_heart]

My writing at the moment is generally inspired by Hammett, so it tends to be very spare. Though his detective stuff tended to be from a first-person perspective and without seeing the character's actual thoughts. That's where I differ...besides the obvious ways.

I think it helps to establish a perspective (and possibly pace) in the scene, and then you can make decisions in how to present it and reflect that. If the surroundings are completely new to the character(s), it may help to convey this and put a little effort into establishing the place. Alternatively, if there is action happening at a fast pace, the filtering of what they notice could be a bit narrower and shouldn't be bogged down with too much incidental detail.

Then there's the little things. Does the character tend to roam around spaces or do they remain fixed? Are they talking directly to someone, looking them in the eye, or 'at' someone? Is their perspective limited in an important way?

I think with practice, you tend to find these kinds of things come naturally and a real writer will develop what they call a 'voice'. That's where the great stuff begins.

Modifié par hot_heart, 14 juin 2012 - 11:20 .

[lillitheris]

fainmaca wrote...

On a more serious note, on the topic of different interpretations of the ME universe: have any of you guys had your readers putting their own spin on things? for example, I've had more than a couple of readers shipping an OC of mine (Delexia Tanis) with Garrus. It's completely unexpected for me, as I've envisioned the pair having a more brother-sister relationship than a romantic one, but the idea seems quite popular. Have you guys had anything like that, and do you think its a good idea to work on these new ideas (much like BW did when they paired Garrus and Tali together, or even when they put them back in the squad)?

One thing I'm wary of is that i don't want the Normandy to become the Love Boat (which it really felt like in ME3, mostly because there were less people and yet more pairings, exaggerating things), so I'm a little wary of pairing up characters willy-nilly. However, I do have a large cast to choose from, so maybe it won't be as noticeable for me (squad is 20 strong atm, and I have a couple more recruitments to go before its at full strength).

Depending on the circumstances, a few relationships is by no means outside the bounds a group that size and probably even realistic given (I assume) similar interests, experiences, adrenaline… In addition, there’d certainly be more than a few ‘comrades-in-arms with benefits’ situations.

My advice, in short, would be to not ‘give in’ but let the characters develop as they do. At the same time, be wary of unnecessarily reining in potential relationships where you notice chemistry.

Shippers gonna ship, or how did it go? There’s even MShep/FShep etc. Let them do that part if they like.

(Also, Tali/Garrus was just so dumb…)

[MrStoob]

Love... Exciting and new!

lol

That's a shame, gears. I thought you might like a fic where Samara returns to Omega like she said she might, but falls for Aria, dumps the code, and becomes a hired killer? ^^

I jest ofc.

[lillitheris]

gearseffect wrote...

My Shep don't have any feelings behind his memories of Liara it's like a movie when he thinks about 'em. He feels nothing it's blank. And Liara don't get why she loves him still, and he's become so cold and only wants Samara. She's bond to be bitter as all hell she just don't get what's up with him

Ask yourself this: why does your Shepard still love Samara although she’s very distant and apparently adamant that there be no relationship?

That’s why.

[MrStoob]

Smugglers Luck wrote...

Do you guys have advice on how to handle oneshots? Like how to get more story out of less detail?

Mine are generally 'oneshots', even the chapter based one, in that each 'chapter' is more like a oneshot, but they all tie together.

Depends what you want to say I suppose, but if the story is about action, then concentrate on the descriptive elements.  If it's about character interactions, then concentrate on dialogue and feelings.

As I said above, I'm really light on describing the locations, as I don't feel they add much to my 'style' of exploring character development and dialogue.  A character can say a lot with only a few words.  Try to re-arrange, re-word, re-write dialogue so the words speak their emotions, thus making emotional description unnecessary.  Interactions between characters can set a friendship or animosity purely with a short conversation, rather than having to spell it out.

Dunno if that helps any.

[Smugglers Luck]

MrStoob wrote...

Smugglers Luck wrote...

Do you guys have advice on how to handle oneshots? Like how to get more story out of less detail?

Mine are generally 'oneshots', even the chapter based one, in that each 'chapter' is more like a oneshot, but they all tie together.

Depends what you want to say I suppose, but if the story is about action, then concentrate on the descriptive elements.  If it's about character interactions, then concentrate on dialogue and feelings.

As I said above, I'm really light on describing the locations, as I don't feel they add much to my 'style' of exploring character development and dialogue.  A character can say a lot with only a few words.  Try to re-arrange, re-word, re-write dialogue so the words speak their emotions, thus making emotional description unnecessary.  Interactions between characters can set a friendship or animosity purely with a short conversation, rather than having to spell it out.

Dunno if that helps any.

No this helps alot. Thanks very much. 

[Ursakar]

Thanks for the tips people. I'll get back to finishing my next chapter.

@fainmaca yes, readers do like to pair characters when they see that there is at least something the two chars have in common. I believe that most of them ship Delexia/Garrus simply because they are both turians and they've both lost a team member/subordinate.

I had the same problem with my one of my OC. Some readers were like - Oh, he is a xenophobe! You should totally pair him Ashley! Or Miranda! Or you should pair him with Liara or Samara for the lols!

And of course there is always one who wants me to pair the said OC with Tali.

@Lillitheris I agree about Garrus/Tali. I think Tali/Kal'Reegar is much better pairing. Don't know why BW didn't do it.

Modifié par Ursakar, 14 juin 2012 - 11:47 .

[lillitheris]

Ursakar wrote...

And of course there is always one who wants me to pair [anything] with Tali.

Ursakar’s Law of ME Relationships.

[gearseffect]

lillitheris wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

My Shep don't have any feelings behind his memories of Liara it's like a movie when he thinks about 'em. He feels nothing it's blank. And Liara don't get why she loves him still, and he's become so cold and only wants Samara. She's bond to be bitter as all hell she just don't get what's up with him

Ask yourself this: why does your Shepard still love Samara although she’s very distant and apparently adamant that there be no relationship?

That’s why.

Did I p!ss you off or something becuase cripes almighty that seemed like you were getting snipy with me. I take it you never read any of my Fanfic otherwise you'd see what I was refering to there.

[Ursakar]

lillitheris wrote...

Ursakar wrote...

And of course there is always one who wants me to pair [anything] with Tali.

Ursakar’s Law of ME Relationships.

Maybe I should write it down on a stone tablet. "And thou shall pair  with Tali'Zorah everyone that is male and badass."

[fainmaca]

@gears: well you see when I say brother sister, I don't mean that it'd feel weird/incestuous to have them pair up, but rather I just mean that they tease one another and laugh and joke in the same way siblings might, or really close friends. They're the only Turians on the ship, so they naturally gravitate towards one another in their downtime. I guess some of their interaction could be seen as flirtatious from a certain point of view. I just never envisioned it when I created Delexia. she was mainly created as a Turian squadmate so that even players who got Garrus killed would still have one. She's also been written with the possibility of a romance with shepard in mind, even though I don't plan to take that route (I have a total of six potential new romances open to Shepard: Elanie, Falere and Delexia for ManShep, Etarn, Jano and another Male Human for femShep, but I'm writing a ManShep in a committed relationship with Jack so won't be taking those paths. I even plotted out a Samara continuation which was only made possible due to her exile following the Ninth Rite). So I guess I could write it without breaking the character, but I don't know whether I should.

@Ursakar: You know, I never realised they had the whole 'lost team' thing in common until just now! Its something to think about....

[lillitheris]

gearseffect wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

My Shep don't have any feelings behind his memories of Liara it's like a movie when he thinks about 'em. He feels nothing it's blank. And Liara don't get why she loves him still, and he's become so cold and only wants Samara. She's bond to be bitter as all hell she just don't get what's up with him

Ask yourself this: why does your Shepard still love Samara although she’s very distant and apparently adamant that there be no relationship?

That’s why.

Did I p!ss you off or something becuase cripes almighty that seemed like you were getting snipy with me. I take it you never read any of my Fanfic otherwise you'd see what I was refering to there.

You ask why Liara would love someone who is not available? The simplest answer is to think of yourself or your Shepard as Liara, and Shepard as Samara. Same situation.

If you’re referring to something elsewhere that contradicts this, I’m sorry, I’m not aware of it if you don’t actually mention it here. Or maybe you were talking about something else entirely, I’m not sure.

[fluffywalrus]

MrStoob wrote...

Love... Exciting and new!

lol

That's a shame, gears. I thought you might like a fic where Samara returns to Omega like she said she might, but falls for Aria, dumps the code, and becomes a hired killer? ^^

I jest ofc.

There's actually an interesting fic out there somewhere, featuring Samara and Aria in some form, in some way. Can't remember which, my mind is foggy from lack of sleeps. Basically, She and Aria had once been together and had Rila, Falere and Mirala...Samara and Aria broke up over Samara's decision to hand their kids over to the temple, and Samara then decided to become a Justicar once Mirala fled.

Was...interesting. I'm pretty sure it was a collection of segments within a larger Shep-focused fic, but I just can't remember. Was well enough done, though, and applies a nice contrast between Aria and Samara during the ME timeline XD

gearseffect wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Ask
yourself this: why does your Shepard still love Samara although she’s
very distant and apparently adamant that there be no relationship?

That’s why.

Did
I p!ss you off or something becuase cripes almighty that seemed like
you were getting snipy with me. I take it you never read any of my
Fanfic otherwise you'd see what I was refering to there.

Actually, it's definitely thought-provoking from a certain viewpoint.
He lost something with Liara, something he must have once felt strongly about, but doesn't anymore for reasons he can't understand. It's not out of the question that in his subconscious, guilt or anger would manifest from him not feeling anything, and would effectively put himself in Liara's position and chase someone unwilling to reciprocate with or be intimate with him.

That, and one-sided love occurs in real life. People chase others and often fail. This is no different.

This being applied as objectively as I can, of course.

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 14 juin 2012 - 12:04 .

[gearseffect]

[quote]lillitheris wrote...

[quote]gearseffect wrote...

[quote]lillitheris wrote...

[quote]gearseffect wrote...

My Shep don't have any feelings behind his memories of Liara it's like a movie when he thinks about 'em. He feels nothing it's blank. And Liara don't get why she loves him still, and he's become so cold and only wants Samara. She's bond to be bitter as all hell she just don't get what's up with him[/quote]

Ask yourself this: why does your Shepard still love Samara although she’s very distant and apparently adamant that there be no relationship?

That’s why.
[/quote]

Did I p!ss you off or something becuase cripes almighty that seemed like you were getting snipy with me. I take it you never read any of my Fanfic otherwise you'd see what I was refering to there.[/quote]

You ask why Liara would love someone who is not available? The simplest answer is to think of yourself or your Shepard as Liara, and Shepard as Samara. Same situation.

If you’re referring to something elsewhere that contradicts this, I’m sorry, I’m not aware of it if you don’t actually mention it here. Or maybe you were talking about something else entirely, I’m not sure.
[/quote]

I was talking about  relavent post I made just minutes ago about Liara and the challages she perensted to me for writing her,

quote]gearseffect wrote...

Liara changed with each game, and now
I'm just gonna say it, to me those sudden character changes that go so
far and erratic like hers did, really put me off to her character. Hell
I'd forgotten why I'd even liked and grew to love Liara in ME1 so well.

Hell
I remember back when Samara was first reviled I hated her, because her
boobs looked fake and I wanted Liara back. Look how well that went as
soon as I went to Illium Liara was all rage and I was like this isn't
Liara, holy hell. Then Samara's intro and wham game over she had me
smitten right then and there. And I only became more smitten with her as
the game progressed.

Hell these weird erratic things with
Liara are partly why I created the discontented plot line. But take my
word I have more reasons and a grand plain with that plot line that I
hope will just drop people leaving them floored.

However I'd also
dreaded writing Liara after playing ME3, because well I'd been so
revelted and pushed away by how BW kept forcing her my way, and I didn't
want to write hating Liara, I wanted to write not knowing Liara
anymore. Thankfully Midnightraith's first chapter is to her Fanfic has
done a good job allowing me to rediscover Liara and why I'd loved her in
ME1, By Midnight exploring her Shep's and Liara's ME1 relationship I've
been able to rediscover what I'd loved about her.


[/quote]

[MrStoob]

'Liara developed with each game', would be a better way to put it I think. Most others didn't.

Anyhoo... fan fic, any thoughts anyone? ^^

Modifié par MrStoob, 14 juin 2012 - 12:16 .

[fainmaca]

Gonna bring up a topic I've been discussing over in the ITU thread that probably fits better here:

fainmaca wrote...

Currently writing here:

And getting so much done! Anyone else have a special place they like to go to write?

Modifié par fainmaca, 14 juin 2012 - 12:24 .

[fluffywalrus]

fainmaca wrote...

Gonna bring up a topic I've been discussing over in the ITU thread that probably fits better here:

fainmaca wrote...

Currently writing here:

And getting so much done! Anyone else have a special place they like to go to write?

Absolutely gorgeous!

Kinda wish I had a nice place to write. Ottawa has a lot of green areas, but I don't have my bus pass anymore, and all the good greeen areas are a really long ways away. So I generally sit inside and gaze out my window here and there...which isn't the worst view I guess. Lots of sky, and a little green play area for kids.

Each autumn, I visit (along with my family) my aunt and uncle in USA for Canadian thanksgiving (I know, it's silly, but whatever). They recently got a cottage in Orleans, Massachusetts and it's absolutely spectacular there. I do a little help around the house, prepping it for rentals, I eat great food, I do homework, and best of all...there's a dense bit of forest and a beach within walking distance that are too serene for words. I spend hours in those two spots, usually reading or just sitting there. Sometimes I see squirrels and deer, sometimes I see seals on the beach...it's just a great place.

If I'm still writing by October, I'll probably do that there as well
(wish I had pics, but I have a habit of leaving the camera in the cottage)

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 14 juin 2012 - 12:41 .

[Ursakar]

http://kiev.progulka...ges/pobeda3.jpg

Victory park, Kiev. Sometimes I go there when I have free time.

Modifié par Ursakar, 14 juin 2012 - 12:41 .