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[MrStoob]

So it looks like another year of Skyrim, the next BSI DLC, and some more time in XCom for 2014 for me then (maybe more DLC for XCom? EW was good).

This one I wasn't really sure what to do with, so let's dump it here for now eh? 

...

“I can't raise anyone, sir.” the junior officer states.

He and his senior are sheltering in a London shop front with hostiles ahead, their squad dispersed and the rest now presumably taken by the Reaper forces.

“We've got to keep pushing forward, you ready?”

“Yes, sir.” the younger man reluctantly answers, then looks beyond his commander. The commander looks to what has caught his junior's eye.

“Good. British troops.” the commander ascertains.

Running low out of a side street come dozens of human soldiers, then they take up lines against a bank of fallen debris. Once the full force of around one hundred has arrived, one steps up onto the debris in full sight of the enemy and cradles a cloth sack with dangling wooden pipes that he then flings onto his shoulder and one into his mouth.

“Oh we're in for a treat now, laddie.” the commander says.

“Sir?” the junior responds, quizzically looking at his commander's sudden change in accent.

“You're from Canada, aren't you?”

“Yes, sir. Nova Scotia, sir.”

“Ha! Then prepare to taste some of your heritage.”

“Fix bayonets!” one of the forces' commanders cries out.

A low whining tone and frantic melody emanate from the soldier's sack and pipes as he just begins slowly pacing towards the enemy as though protected by the wall of sound, followed by a war cry from his comrades as they rush ahead to face the throng of horrors awaiting beyond.

“Aye.” the commander says to his junior, “Say what you like about the asari, but the Brits invented the commando. Ye ready now, laddie?”

“Aye, that I am, sir!” he replies, now with more confidence and they run to join the troops.

Dedicated in the 100th year since to the brave men and women (and ****ing nutters) of the Great War.

Modifié par MrStoob, 14 janvier 2014 - 09:50 .

[Fatiguesdualism]

@MrStoob - with apologies

A pair of soldiers paused as the piper started playing.  "There it is, he's at it again!" the shorter of the pair complained, "Have you ever heard such a racket in all your life?"

The taller soldier grimaced and adjusted his helmet before replying - in his thick Scottish brogue, "Aye, it takes an Irishman to play the pipes."

Seven  points if you can name the actor - and a bonus merit if you can name the film!

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 14 janvier 2014 - 01:45 .

[MrStoob]

There were many tales from WW I and II of men walking into battle playing the pipes, many of them quite humorous, such as the commando 'stealth' attack on an Axis harbour which became no longer so when at the last moment before the attack, a piper stood up in the boat to wail his tune. Say what you like about bagpipes, but me personally, I would find that rousing enough to stave off some of the fear.

Not sure on the film though.  Is it Sean?  Or Gordon?

Modifié par MrStoob, 14 janvier 2014 - 09:46 .

[Seracen]

Per the current discussion, I've written stories that have had to be reworked before. One of my primary books remains unpublished and unfinished. I just have a skeleton outline and a stopgap ending for my own edification.

If I ever work up the interest in revisiting the story, I will. Meanwhile, it provides excellent fodder for what to do (or not do) in terms of scene layouts for my current projects. As such, I wouldn't call it a waste.

[Fatiguesdualism]

(Apologies for being off-topic)

@MrStoob:  It was Sean Connery. The film is called 'The Longest Day' and is about the events of June 6th 1944.

(back on-topic)

Regarding reworking sections - struggling to do that myself. I had written a scene with Shepard and Kolyat after Thane... Anyway, had a friend eyeball it - and they came to a completely different conclusion than I intended. After they explained their reasoning I could see why, but I'm torn between reworking or just ditching the whole thing and trying something different instead.

Modifié par Fatiguesdualism, 14 janvier 2014 - 01:19 .

[YurigirlzCrush]

thank you to everyone who has offered advice on my previous question. *smiles and waves* I understand why so many people suggested having someone look what I have over before I commit to redoing it, but as I get over the time lost writing what I'm not using, I'm getting happier about the new direction of things. I plan to see if I can push out a whole chapter today while my inspiration is high. and before school knocks it back out of me. *pout* stupid school. who starts a new semester on a Thursday? seriously! *shakes head* only two days of freedom left.

now, new question: where do you all fall on portraying potentially-sensitive subjects? for example, as violence against children, heavy drug use, sexual assault, etc.? not that I'm using all of the above or anything, but I know there are many subjects that are hard to digest as a reader (or writer!) and I'm curious about thoughts/methods for handling it.

Modifié par YurigirlzCrush, 14 janvier 2014 - 03:21 .

[Seracen]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

thank you to everyone who has offered advice on my previous question. *smiles and waves* I understand why so many people suggested having someone look what I have over before I commit to redoing it, but as I get over the time lost writing what I'm not using, I'm getting happier about the new direction of things. I plan to see if I can push out a whole chapter today while my inspiration is high. and before school knocks it back out of me. *pout* stupid school. who starts a new semester on a Thursday? seriously! *shakes head* only two days of freedom left.

now, new question: where do you all fall on portraying potentially-sensitive subjects? for example, as violence against children, heavy drug use, sexual assault, etc.? not that I'm using all of the above or anything, but I know there are many subjects that are hard to digest as a reader (or writer!) and I'm curious about thoughts/methods for handling it.

Ah yes, I struggle with this one at times.  I generally don't shy away from such subjects, so long as it serves a purpose in the story.

In the past, I wrote a story where a group of young adults, barely high schoolers, were basically in a prison camp.  They were being treated harshly in order to develop their powers.  What I did to my main characters makes Subject Zero's school look like a happy daycare.

I didn't revel in writing scenes of torture, it simply served a purpose.  Of course, whenever a character is dealing with the ramifications of abuse, rape, torture, PTSD, etc, it becomes an awkward thing to write, even if from a place of experience (which, thankfully, I don't have).

More often, I am more concerned with whether I will lose readers, versus not wanting to write it.  In the end, I just go for what works for my story.  I figure, so long as it serves something, and doesn't seem to be indulging some perverse desire for "torture porn," like SAW, then I am fine.

[Ignis Mors]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

thank you to everyone who has offered advice on my previous question. *smiles and waves* I understand why so many people suggested having someone look what I have over before I commit to redoing it, but as I get over the time lost writing what I'm not using, I'm getting happier about the new direction of things. I plan to see if I can push out a whole chapter today while my inspiration is high. and before school knocks it back out of me. *pout* stupid school. who starts a new semester on a Thursday? seriously! *shakes head* only two days of freedom left.

now, new question: where do you all fall on portraying potentially-sensitive subjects? for example, as violence against children, heavy drug use, sexual assault, etc.? not that I'm using all of the above or anything, but I know there are many subjects that are hard to digest as a reader (or writer!) and I'm curious about thoughts/methods for handling it.

Violence against kids, if it comes naturally from the story, no problem. Heavy drug use, the same. Sexual assault... I don't think I have the skill as a writer to write about it in a manner which would be respectful enough. 

[fluffywalrus]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

thank you to everyone who has offered advice on my previous question. *smiles and waves* I understand why so many people suggested having someone look what I have over before I commit to redoing it, but as I get over the time lost writing what I'm not using, I'm getting happier about the new direction of things. I plan to see if I can push out a whole chapter today while my inspiration is high. and before school knocks it back out of me. *pout* stupid school. who starts a new semester on a Thursday? seriously! *shakes head* only two days of freedom left.

now, new question: where do you all fall on portraying potentially-sensitive subjects? for example, as violence against children, heavy drug use, sexual assault, etc.? not that I'm using all of the above or anything, but I know there are many subjects that are hard to digest as a reader (or writer!) and I'm curious about thoughts/methods for handling it.

I think, in regard to your question, it is imperative that the issue is respected above and beyond the narrative direction for a story. By this, I mean that it should not simply be a plot device to explain or promote a certain action/reaction from a character...at the very least, it should be treated with a modicum of respect and dignity, and should be given time enough to sink in to the reader that it is an important component to the story. This isn't to say that the story must revolve around it, but the more you include it in the story, the more a story relies on it (or actions/issues caused by or related to it), the more depth there should be in explaining and describing it.

To make a point, it's kind of like if a film includes a rape scene. There has to be a purpose to its inclusion aside from shock value. There has to be. And generally you'll get films where there's a 10 second one, and then it flashes to tehe pnext scene or whatever, and that's just inappropriate, because at that point, it could have been insinuated that a rape occurred without that ten second clip. Then you get ones like in Last House on the Left (the newer remake), where the entire filming of it comes across more as porn, without much of any impact, because it wasn't framed properly, the stage wasn't set for it to seem like anything more than gratuitous or as overindulgent. Compare that to Irreversible or Boys Don't Cry, and you'll see a big difference in the inclusion of that scene and the ultimate impact it makes, and how it really solidifies what both films struggled (and succeeded, imo) to convey.

And hell, look at Requiem for a Dream for heavy drug use and addiction. Mysterious Skin for child abuse. I'd list books for examples, but books are much longer, require more investment, and with things like sexual assault, I've found it rare that authors can find a style and voice that properly captures it...

It's hard including such things into stories, I find. I always want to do it justice, and never feel i've done enough in the end. But I figure, those issues are sensitive for very important reasons, and if you want readers to accept your characters as relatable to their own human experiences, it's necessary to trat your characters like human beings enough to give them a voice to communicate such things properly. Otherwise, it could come across as jarringly fake, and that could damage the flow and integrity of the story.

Anywho, those are just my wandering thoughts on the matter. I'm tired. Nap time.

[MrStoob]

On this subject (in a round about way anyway), my housemate and I watched a few older movies (70s/80s) over the Christmas period and the treatment of such matters is quite frankly shocking, particularly the Clint Eastwood ones. There was never really a point of the rape/assault in these movies, nor was it treated as something intrinsically wrong, not even in an ironic way. And don't get me started on how women are portrayed as a whole in them, dumb to the point of childlike. Anyhoo, if you want the worst way to portray such things, watch High Plains Drifter. If you've seen it before and can't really recall what I mean, you'll be surprised.

I was at one point going to have Liara take a swing at Shep over a low blow comment during an argument but decided against it as there was really no justification other than 'shock' at Liara's actions.

[YurigirlzCrush]

*waves* thanks for the responses! I actually never heard of any of the movies you mentioned, Fluffy. but I'm sort of glad I never watched some of them. the reason I asked to begin with is because certain issues for me are sensitive issues. generally, if I know a movie includes a graphic rape scene, I won't watch it. and I certainly have no interest in reading or writing one. if I ever included sexual assault in one of my stories it would definitely be implied only and I would limit myself to the aftermath. especially since even implied scenes tend to bother me. and with two of my sisters being 10 or under, I also have a hard time with child abuse material.

but some of my outlines include material that I really need to handle sensitively and about which I am very apprehensive. so the advice and words of wisdom are very appreciated! *smiles*

[Seracen]

"Respect" is the perfect word for it. Adding stuff like this for mere shock value is what disgusts me. In fact, a lot of games have recently come under fire for using PTSD and rape as a shorthand for characters "surviving and growing stronger."

Not that such a thing can't be a valid plot beat, but without a sense of respect, it comes across as just...crass and classless.

I think the line for "sexploitation" films and games is different. They wear the offending matter on their sleeves, and don't cross certain lines. For instance, the adventures of a horndog might be funny, but not if said horndog was abusive.



@ MrStoob: I remember High Plains Drifter. That film was basically about a bad man who'd been turned bad by the town around him, and getting revenge on bad people. All in all, there isn't a single redeeming quality among anyone in the film.

I know what scene you are talking about, and I remember as a kid feeling uncomfortable with its ramifications. What Clint does is somehow less and more foul than what that woman (and the town) did to him.

Sadly, I cannot sympathize with anyone in the film. My only amusement comes from the fact that it's Clint, therefore I am imagining his other films and portrayals. The problem is that Clint is portrayed as "the hero" in this film. Other revenge films in a similar vein generally establish the "villains" as the victims, or everyone as reprobates.

Conversely, in "Outlaw Josie Wales," similar brutality serves a purpose, and Clint's character respects certain uncrossable boundaries, even rails against them.



tl;dr: So yeah, respect for the subject matter buys a lot of credibility in dealing with it, and will often justify its use. I say "often," because presenting it properly is key to its function within the story, and that is just as important as respect.

Modifié par Seracen, 15 janvier 2014 - 04:57 .

[fluffywalrus]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

*waves* thanks for the responses! I actually never heard of any of the movies you mentioned, Fluffy. but I'm sort of glad I never watched some of them. the reason I asked to begin with is because certain issues for me are sensitive issues. generally, if I know a movie includes a graphic rape scene, I won't watch it. and I certainly have no interest in reading or writing one. if I ever included sexual assault in one of my stories it would definitely be implied only and I would limit myself to the aftermath. especially since even implied scenes tend to bother me. and with two of my sisters being 10 or under, I also have a hard time with child abuse material.

but some of my outlines include material that I really need to handle sensitively and about which I am very apprehensive. so the advice and words of wisdom are very appreciated! *smiles*

Understandable that you haven't seen the films, they're all...well, they're not safe, is the best way to put it. I'm not sure I know anyone who was entertained by any of them; they're visceral works of art. Not exactly easy viewing material, and I've only ever recommended any of them to some friends of mine who wanted to see if anything could freak them out. And even then, it was begrudgingly...

Irreversible was...well, a friend with good taste told me to watch it once upon a time, and at the time I tended to just comply without question or investigation when it came to his recommendations (because while I do like watching films that drag emotion out of me kicking and screaming, that sort of shock was difficult to deal with...which I suppose was my friend's point, but still). That film isn't something anyone should probably witness without warning, and I can't imagine most would be able to stomach what goes on in it. But it was the first film where I can honestly say that I was terrified for a character on the screen, and while I do kind of wish i never saw the film, I can praise it for handling the subject matter well. Same with Boys Don't Cry, but that wasn't likely as difficult for the director to set up, because it was based on a true story...still scary and heartbreaking. And Mysterious Skin...scary, heartbreaking stuff too.  I'm not sure if there's a word to describe how it felt to watch a mostly happy, curious person's world come crumbling down in an instant, only for one of the more broken characters I've seen on film to hold him together. And Requiem for a Dream is...well, if you've seen any of Darren Aronofsky's films(Black Swan, The Wrestler, The Fountain), you know it's a sad one, tragic even. All of the above are difficult films, IMO, for good reason. Reading about such things, viewing such things, should not be easy.

Like I (and Seracen) said before, respect is key. These events and issues are powerful, and they're difficult to wield in narratives. All I can say if be patient, be mindful, and try to ensure that any such issue a character has gone through is respected, while also respecting that they as a person are much more than that. I'm confident that you can handle it 

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 15 janvier 2014 - 05:46 .

[Seracen]

Fluffy raises a good point, this subject matter isn't supposed to be easy, either to read, or to write. I constantly harp about reader fatigue. I don't necessarily call it a bad thing.

After all, there's nothing like that downtime after running a marathon. This is where pacing and proper utilization come into play, and indeed, respect for the subject matter.

[hot_heart]

Irreversible.

[hot_heart]

Balls. I said the latest chapter was the penultimate and now it seems readers are (quite rightly) expecting me to be covering the final assault on Earth. Initially, I intended for a brief bit of background (via narration) in the last Shepard conversation because it didn't feel important from a story perspective. Though, I have half a mind to do it and kill off some folks to cement that sort of downer attitude she exhibits at the end. I'd have to separate out the conversation stuff, however, since I want this flashback linked to it rather than jammed awkwardly inbetween.

What do you guys reckon?

[Seracen]

hot_heart wrote...

Balls. I said the latest chapter was the penultimate and now it seems readers are (quite rightly) expecting me to be covering the final assault on Earth. 

Still, I'd congratulate you on coming so near the finish!

hot_heart wrote...

Initially, I intended for a brief bit of background (via narration) in the last Shepard conversation because it didn't feel important from a story perspective. Though, I have half a mind to do it and kill off some folks to cement that sort of downer attitude she exhibits at the end. I'd have to separate out the conversation stuff, however, since I want this flashback linked to it rather than jammed awkwardly inbetween.

What do you guys reckon?

In your case, I would go over the broad strokes, a direct narration from Shep.  Interspersed between those bits, I might do a scene or two of "full production" to give a feel for what was going on.  Nothing too fancy, unless you felt the need to do so.

Personally, I'd go with whatever is in keeping with your original vision.  As for me, I had a great deal of fun reimagining my rendition of the final mission.

Modifié par Seracen, 17 janvier 2014 - 02:46 .

[YurigirlzCrush]

*pout* sorry I can't really offer any advice about the question. except maybe to say that your original intentions may have been the right ones. a few stories I've read sort of fell apart once the writer started deviating from their plans to please readers. so... personally, I say stick to your vision. *smiles*

random realization! whoever said writing is rewriting is too right. *shakes head* I rewrote chapter one of my story the other day, which consisted of a rather lengthy flashback scene and then a second scene that highlighted the current situation for that character. and I was happy with it. but then at school today another idea occurred to me about breaking up that flashback scene and starting with just the super important final bit. and then sprinkling in other bits and pieces of it as I go forward in the story. and I like that much better. so now I'm redoing some of it again! *grins*

this is not a complaint, mind you. I just find it sort of funny now that I keep rewriting the same chapter over and over. or parts of it, anyway.

hope everyone had a peachy week to date! *grins and waves*

[MrStoob]

It's a tricky one that. When you get good feedback and ponderous assumptions/suggestions, sometimes you think "Ooh that's a good idea..." but it may derail original intentions and ultimately the tone/feel. If it's something you're happy doing and can envisage working, by all means of course.

On a random point, how much do you add to your spell checker's library? I noticed a glaring typo on a regular name (Ashley>Ashely) but I that think because one can get used to those red wiggly lines for words like turian, asari, etc, they become easier to pass one by when it is a genuine error. I'm bad enough for posting typos/errors without that kind of thing in the mix.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

MrStoob wrote...

On a random point, how much do you add to your spell checker's library? I noticed a glaring typo on a regular name (Ashley>Ashely) but I that think because one can get used to those red wiggly lines for words like turian, asari, etc, they become easier to pass one by when it is a genuine error. I'm bad enough for posting typos/errors without that kind of thing in the mix.

I go through the red wriggly lines in a semi-trance. ME names barely registered most of the time. On others, I tend to spell in the British way so more often than not, I get the red worms.

[hot_heart]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I may go for it. That way the story gets a bigger finish, I suppose (though that won't be the final chapter). Though I am enjoying the chapter I am writing at the moment, it means I can put that aside because I think it really needs some extra eyes on it. That will be coming soon...

Which brings me to...

YurigirlzCrush wrote...
random realization! whoever said writing is rewriting is too right. *shakes head*

That was me!

Though I can't claim credit for the original, I think many writers have expressed that bit of wisdom. It really is a useful, necessary process, because no one gets it 100% right the first time.

[YurigirlzCrush]

I hate the squiggly red lines in my documents. so now that I've been writing stuff for dragon age and mass effect, there's a whole bunch of words from both in my spellchecker's library. *grins* I figure why should I bother looking at the red lines when there's a function to eliminate the ones that aren't actually mistakes?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

I hate the squiggly red lines in my documents. so now that I've been writing stuff for dragon age and mass effect, there's a whole bunch of words from both in my spellchecker's library. *grins* I figure why should I bother looking at the red lines when there's a function to eliminate the ones that aren't actually mistakes?

If they are words that I'm going to be using consistently throughout the document, I'll first make sure I have them spelled correctly, then I'll add them to the dictionary. That way the spellcheck can make sure that you spelled them consistently. , and there is a way to reset the dictionary to the default. 

[Redbelle]

The number of times wordchecker has put those red lines under the word Wyld.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

But we're wild about Wyld