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[sH0tgUn jUliA]

 I don't know why there's such a stigma about writing fan fiction. I mean really. It's a creative outlet. It's not like we're sitting around letting our brains rot. 

You know there are people who have problems with musicians learning songs written by other people, too. They think musicians should only play original music or get out of the business. But in order to learn how to play an instrument, one has to learn how to play music written by others. This is what these people don't understand. I've had over 50 years experience playing music, and have been a music teacher, so flame on.

I guess it's this western idea that if you're going to do something you should do it for the purpose of making money, or else it's a useless endeavor. I don't know your age groups, but I can guess most of you are quite a bit younger than I am. I'm retired. I play four musical instruments: piano, guitar, bass, and voice. I can play piano nearly at virtuoso level if I practice, but nearly isn't good enough to make a living at it. So I had to get a day job. Music then became a very expensive hobby, and thus through my brief 11 yr marriage (goddess I don't know why I stayed in it that long!) was called a "waste of time, and a noise maker" because it interfered with important things like watching television. So now I'm back to making music again, and I haven't made a lot of money with it, but I'm happy.

I write fan fiction. I may write my own novel at some point, but with fan fiction especially in the sci-fi and fantasy worlds the backgrounds are already developed. Sure you can introduce new characters within that setting, but you don't have to develop the setting from scratch. The sandbox is already made. Building a sandbox from scratch is hard. Coming up with new names for your races is hard. Well for fantasy, the usual are good enough, but sci-fi? You've got to come up with your own.

Or do you? This is a good question. Well in this day and age of copyright, yes you do. See in fantasy elves, dwarves, etc., go back to folk tales which are public domain. But sci-fi is lot more work to create a universe, and you're still going to use the same 8 basic plot archetypes, and just mix up the subplots until you come up with something original or mostly original. 

In any event, I don't find anything wrong with it. I like playing in the sandbox. It's a creative endeavor. It's no different than learning a piece of music written by someone else. But you're improvising and writing variations, and sometimes writing very complex variations on the theme. Some of those I've read are very good. You first timers, keep it up. The more you write, the better you're going to get. And finish it. Make sure you finish it. Don't leave it half done. Those are people in there!!!

We're not going to be John Grishams or Stephen Kings overnight. It takes time and a lot of writing, editing, and re-editing, and re-editing. And even these guys make mistakes. I wish I could learn to write like Neo learned Kung-Fu in The Matrix. That would save a lot of time.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 22 janvier 2014 - 08:12 .

[BronzTrooper]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

 I don't know why there's such a stigma about writing fan fiction. I mean really. It's a creative outlet. It's not like we're sitting around letting our brains rot. 

You know there are people who have problems with musicians learning songs written by other people, too. They think musicians should only play original music or get out of the business. But in order to learn how to play an instrument, one has to learn how to play music written by others. This is what these people don't understand. I've had over 50 years experience playing music, and have been a music teacher, so flame on.

I guess it's this western idea that if you're going to do something you should do it for the purpose of making money, or else it's a useless endeavor. I don't know your age groups, but I can guess most of you are quite a bit younger than I am. I'm retired. I play four musical instruments: piano, guitar, bass, and voice. I can play piano nearly at virtuoso level if I practice, but nearly isn't good enough to make a living at it. So I had to get a day job. Music then became a very expensive hobby, and thus through my brief 11 yr marriage (goddess I don't know why I stayed in it that long!) was called a "waste of time, and a noise maker" because it interfered with important things like watching television. So now I'm back to making music again, and I haven't made a lot of money with it, but I'm happy.

I write fan fiction. I may write my own novel at some point, but with fan fiction especially in the sci-fi and fantasy worlds the backgrounds are already developed. Sure you can introduce new characters within that setting, but you don't have to develop the setting from scratch. The sandbox is already made. Building a sandbox from scratch is hard. Coming up with new names for your races is hard. Well for fantasy, the usual are good enough, but sci-fi? You've got to come up with your own.

Or do you? This is a good question. Well in this day and age of copyright, yes you do. See in fantasy elves, dwarves, etc., go back to folk tales which are public domain. But sci-fi is lot more work to create a universe, and you're still going to use the same 8 basic plot archetypes, and just mix up the subplots until you come up with something original or mostly original. 

In any event, I don't find anything wrong with it. I like playing in the sandbox. It's a creative endeavor. It's no different than learning a piece of music written by someone else. But you're improvising and writing variations, and sometimes writing very complex variations on the theme. Some of those I've read are very good. You first timers, keep it up. The more you write, the better you're going to get. And finish it. Make sure you finish it. Don't leave it half done. Those are people in there!!!

We're not going to be John Grishams or Stephen Kings overnight. It takes time and a lot of writing, editing, and re-editing, and re-editing. And even these guys make mistakes. I wish I could learn to write like Neo learned Kung-Fu in The Matrix. That would save a lot of time.

I completely agree.  Some people go overboard about the copyright laws, thinking that if they borrow an idea or theme from a book, movie, or game, they are breaking the law.  Others think that borrowing ideas or themes from other works is the same as copying the story word-for-word, which isn't true.
Now, I read Michelle Gagnon's Don't Turn Around and I decided to borrow the idea of having the main character be a hacker and bring it into the ME-verse, creating Lance in my fanfic Keep Running, as well as a few other ideas.  It's not a copyright violation because I acknowledge that the book exists and I'm not claiming anything in my fanfic that didn't originate in my head.
I also see writing fanfics as a way for me to vent my grievances about the games they are based off of or to show my views on certain aspects of the games.  If people like my fanfics, good.  It gives me more encouragement to continue and, hopefully, finish them.

[hot_heart]

Efvie wrote...
…But I’m kind of afraid to touch it at this point. I’ve almost convinced myself that I can’t capture the same feel again—even if my writing has improved—and that it’s better to leave the story as something that could have been or become good rather than destroy it by adding to it. Not just for the readers, I mean, but for myself. I know I can always just not publish if I don’t want to.

I think you should continue as long as you are confident in where the story is headed. The only way I think you could 'destroy' what came before is to veer away from what had already been established (but even then, you might have better, fresh, new ideas). It always feels good to complete a story, and at least that way there is an entire 'piece' that can be further improved now that the full structure is there.

And trying to capture the same feel is all well and good, but I think people that if people are fans/followers then they'd appreciate a story reaching a conclusion even if some things are slightly different. Not forgetting that most of them have probably had an 11-month break from it as well. Plus, good writers always have their own, strong voice that can't help but come across in their writing, and that's what will have attracted a lot of your readers, above all the other stuff.

Of course, there's always the chance that once you get back in the saddle, you'll find everything comes back naturally and that improved writing skill just helps everything flow a little easier.

Modifié par hot_heart, 22 janvier 2014 - 11:15 .

[YurigirlzCrush]

random question!

was matriarch Aethyta's (hope I spelled that right) last name ever mentioned? since she and Benezia didn't remain together as a family I have to assume it's not T'Soni. but was it ever specified?

[Ignis Mors]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

random question!

was matriarch Aethyta's (hope I spelled that right) last name ever mentioned? since she and Benezia didn't remain together as a family I have to assume it's not T'Soni. but was it ever specified?

Her last name was never mentioned in the games. I don't know about other stuff, but not in the games.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I searched for Aethyta's family name, and it is not mentioned anywhere. So my take is that if you want her to have one is to give her one as part of your artistic license. This would be necessary if you were want to have a daughter of hers (like the hanar daughter) show up since Asari always carry the mother's family name. If her family name was mentioned in the books, it would have been mentioned in the Wikia, you can bet on it.

Liara should know it.

It depends upon how fast and loose you want to play with the codex.

[MrStoob]

Funny how it's 'Doctor T'Soni' (title, last name), but 'Matriarch Benezia' (title, first name). The question is: whose last name is it, Nezi's or Thyta's? Presuming that Liara would know her own mother's last name, she'd surely be Benezia T'Soni or Liara could have investigated her real father more easily, i.e. an asari with the last name T'Soni. Lots of assumption there but no clue to Thyta's last name or if it is cited anywhere, sorry.

[Efvie]

MrStoob wrote...

Funny how it's 'Doctor T'Soni' (title, last name), but 'Matriarch Benezia' (title, first name). The question is: whose last name is it, Nezi's or Thyta's? Presuming that Liara would know her own mother's last name, she'd surely be Benezia T'Soni or Liara could have investigated her real father more easily, i.e. an asari with the last name T'Soni. Lots of assumption there but no clue to Thyta's last name or if it is cited anywhere, sorry.

Justicars also go by the first name, as does the Councilor, so it stands to reason that honorifics at least temporarily strip the family name. (I went on to explain that especially in the case of the matriarchs, the loss of family name is symbolic of their role as guides for the entire tribe or clan or society…)

Aethyta’s last name isn’t known, so I just came up with one… and while it seems likely that Liara’s mother was indeed Benezia T’Soni, that’s not necessarily certain either. Patrilinear naming would seem a little out of character for the asari, to me.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Asari seem to be a Matriarchal society. So T'soni would be Benezia's family name. Otherwise you would see Batarian, Salarian, Turian, Hanar, Drell, Quarian, Elcor, Volus, names showing up, and they don't. Yet it is Dr. T'soni.

[fluffywalrus]

Efvie wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

Funny how it's 'Doctor T'Soni' (title, last name), but 'Matriarch Benezia' (title, first name). The question is: whose last name is it, Nezi's or Thyta's? Presuming that Liara would know her own mother's last name, she'd surely be Benezia T'Soni or Liara could have investigated her real father more easily, i.e. an asari with the last name T'Soni. Lots of assumption there but no clue to Thyta's last name or if it is cited anywhere, sorry.

Justicars also go by the first name, as does the Councilor, so it stands to reason that honorifics at least temporarily strip the family name. (I went on to explain that especially in the case of the matriarchs, the loss of family name is symbolic of their role as guides for the entire tribe or clan or society…)

Aethyta’s last name isn’t known, so I just came up with one… and while it seems likely that Liara’s mother was indeed Benezia T’Soni, that’s not necessarily certain either. Patrilinear naming would seem a little out of character for the asari, to me.

Agreeing with the bolded. I figure once asari take positions where they are responsible for guiding all of the asari peoples, their family name is (temporarily, perhaps) stripped for that role in order to promote neutrality, rather than one house being seen as leading the asari peoples in the council.

And yes, it would make sense that the mother's family name would take precedence...fathers are ephemeral in general for the asari (unless they are pureblood children, but still), so the family name endures, as the child is a product of one of the mother's bonded relationships. There would be zero reason to hand one of their children another house name, not just for cultural reasons specific to the asari, but due to the issue of aging.

[Efvie]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The Asari seem to be a Matriarchal society. So T'soni would be Benezia's family name. Otherwise you would see Batarian, Salarian, Turian, Hanar, Drell, Quarian, Elcor, Volus, names showing up, and they don't. Yet it is Dr. T'soni.

Well, we can’t really say whether they do or not…

:

@fluffs

Though I think it’s simplest and perhaps most natural to assume that it is the matrilineal name, it could be the father’s precisely because they are ephemeral; the mother’s presence is constant, and the father is remembered by the name. Or they might not be familial names at all! They could be chosen, or given, or earned names. Anything, really.

Modifié par Efvie, 23 janvier 2014 - 11:48 .

[Seracen]

I'm reminded of that conversation where Samara and Tali were discussing naming conventions, specifically quarian, but I could totally see the asari side of it being equally and amusingly enigmatic.

Modifié par Seracen, 25 janvier 2014 - 08:42 .

[YurigirlzCrush]

*waves* new question. sort of a technical question.

in my rework of my story, I have people referring to an organization called Shadow. It's an abbreviation (I worked out the meaning of each letter) but the character overhearing it doesn't know that it's S.H.A.D.O.W., but instead thinks it's a nickname for a person. I sort of want to keep it unclear to the reader until later, but I'm not sure if it's a bad thing to switch from referring to this entity/organization in one way to the other. So the question I have is, should I write it as "I have a meeting with Shadow next week" or "I have a meeting with S.H.A.D.O.W. next week"?

*ponders* second question. When writing a... what is that even called? an anagram? moniker? *pout* I don't know the proper term. but anyway, when writing that name, am I supposed to include the periods? or would it be properly written as SHADOW instead?

[Almostfaceman]

YurigirlzCrush wrote...

*waves* new question. sort of a technical question.

in my rework of my story, I have people referring to an organization called Shadow. It's an abbreviation (I worked out the meaning of each letter) but the character overhearing it doesn't know that it's S.H.A.D.O.W., but instead thinks it's a nickname for a person. I sort of want to keep it unclear to the reader until later, but I'm not sure if it's a bad thing to switch from referring to this entity/organization in one way to the other. So the question I have is, should I write it as "I have a meeting with Shadow next week" or "I have a meeting with S.H.A.D.O.W. next week"?

*ponders* second question. When writing a... what is that even called? an anagram? moniker? *pout* I don't know the proper term. but anyway, when writing that name, am I supposed to include the periods? or would it be properly written as SHADOW instead?

It's called an acronym and I'd include the periods to keep it clear for the reader.

[Seracen]

I'd add the periods once they find out. Until then, just have it be a proper name.

When the revelation happened, I'd do it like: "not Shadow, it's an organization, S.H.A.D.O.W."

That's just me personally. I am too lazy to look up the official convention for it, haha.

BTW: I think the word you are looking for is "acronym."

[YurigirlzCrush]

acronym! that's it. I'm having a horrible day for my vocabulary. *pouts* lots of stumbling over the right words for what I'm writing. which is leading a lot of lackluster narration. I think it may almost be time to take a break and come back to it to pretty it all up another time.

but thanks for the input! I was thinking that too, Ser. that I'd keep treating it as a name until the character finds out, and then work in the correction.

[Seracen]

Huh, interesting wrinkle in my story. I just finished writing the dreaded "exposition chapter," wherein the final battle plans were revealed, and the overall conspiracy.

It's been the toughest chapter to write, which is likely why I skipped it, and procrastinated coming back to it. Part of the advantage, however, was to retroactively set seeds for what comes after, so that was nice.

Anyhoo, it also lead me to creating two more chapters, the "calm before the storm" scenes. The funny thing is, I want far too much saccharine here.

As a result, I will likely go crazy writing these scenes, and only keep the best ones. The other scenes (which will most probably consist of 50% of what I write over the next week), will totally get cut from the final product.

I just find it odd that I am crafting scenes which don't intend to publish, and will remain for myself alone. I suppose I COULD release it, but I realize that, thematically, it would be jarring to release it as part of the main story.

Anyhoo, anybody else do stuff like this? Just write something they'd like to see for fun, even though it doesn't REALLY fit?

I haven't been this self-conscious about a chapter since I decided to have Shepard remain in a poly-amorous relationship.

EDIT: I will likely co-opt a portion of these scenes for the epilogue...but not all.  It's still feels different from my norm, however.

Modifié par Seracen, 26 janvier 2014 - 12:01 .

[BronzTrooper]

Seracen wrote...

Huh, interesting wrinkle in my story. I just finished writing the dreaded "exposition chapter," wherein the final battle plans were revealed, and the overall conspiracy.

It's been the toughest chapter to write, which is likely why I skipped it, and procrastinated coming back to it. Part of the advantage, however, was to retroactively set seeds for what comes after, so that was nice.

Anyhoo, it also lead me to creating two more chapters, the "calm before the storm" scenes. The funny thing is, I want far too much saccharine here.

As a result, I will likely go crazy writing these scenes, and only keep the best ones. The other scenes (which will most probably consist of 50% of what I write over the next week), will totally get cut from the final product.

I just find it odd that I am crafting scenes which don't intend to publish, and will remain for myself alone. I suppose I COULD release it, but I realize that, thematically, it would be jarring to release it as part of the main story.

Anyhoo, anybody else do stuff like this? Just write something they'd like to see for fun, even though it doesn't REALLY fit?

I haven't been this self-conscious about a chapter since I decided to have Shepard remain in a poly-amorous relationship.

EDIT: I will likely co-opt a portion of these scenes for the epilogue...but not all.  It's still feels different from my norm, however.

Not individual scenes, but I have a few stories that I originally planned to put up on fanfiction.net that I now have in storage on my flash drive because they seem somewhat stupid to me.  I mean, they might get good reviews from people, but I have enough problems finding time to write up chapters for my two main fanfics, The Last of the Grey Wardens and Keep Running, so adding more would be too much.  I like looking over them again from time-to-time, but other than that, I don't do anything with them.

[hot_heart]

Haha, oh god, I just realised, and after giving it much thought actually, that where Seracen gave me feedback about a word choice he wasn't too fond of, I'd meant to put wiggle not wriggle.

Either way, I'd changed it to something simpler, since that probably works better.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I've come to the conclusion that I'm insane. Goddess "The Lost Asari" is around 100,000 words. Proofing it now. I'm just hoping I can get someone invested enough in the characters to actually read the thing. It was a hell of a lot of fun writing. The Protagonist goes through an evolution in character. It's an action story and has sub plots, and several micro plots. I cut a lot out of it.

I'm wondering about the best site to post it, and how to post it. I've got an account on FanFiction site, and it's in Word 2010 right now or I could link it to my Wix page as a .pdf for free download.

So does a 100,000 word FF officially qualify me as insane?

[Ignis Mors]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that I'm insane. Goddess "The Lost Asari" is around 100,000 words. Proofing it now. I'm just hoping I can get someone invested enough in the characters to actually read the thing. It was a hell of a lot of fun writing. The Protagonist goes through an evolution in character. It's an action story and has sub plots, and several micro plots. I cut a lot out of it.

I'm wondering about the best site to post it, and how to post it. I've got an account on FanFiction site, and it's in Word 2010 right now or I could link it to my Wix page as a .pdf for free download.

So does a 100,000 word FF officially qualify me as insane?

If a 100,000k ff means you're crazy, I'm the Joker levels of insane. My main ME trilogy fic which hasn't even reached the reaper invasion(and I have a lot of stuff planned for after that) is currently at two hundred seventy-thousand, and my KotOR fic which hasn't even reached Revan defying the Council and joining the war is at ninety-nine thousand words. And, I don't think I'm that crazy, so I'd say that you're probably fine. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ignis Mors wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that I'm insane. Goddess "The Lost Asari" is around 100,000 words. Proofing it now. I'm just hoping I can get someone invested enough in the characters to actually read the thing. It was a hell of a lot of fun writing. The Protagonist goes through an evolution in character. It's an action story and has sub plots, and several micro plots. I cut a lot out of it.

I'm wondering about the best site to post it, and how to post it. I've got an account on FanFiction site, and it's in Word 2010 right now or I could link it to my Wix page as a .pdf for free download.

So does a 100,000 word FF officially qualify me as insane?

If a 100,000k ff means you're crazy, I'm the Joker levels of insane. My main ME trilogy fic which hasn't even reached the reaper invasion(and I have a lot of stuff planned for after that) is currently at two hundred seventy-thousand, and my KotOR fic which hasn't even reached Revan defying the Council and joining the war is at ninety-nine thousand words. And, I don't think I'm that crazy, so I'd say that you're probably fine. 

Thanks. I was getting worried. They are fun to write. 

[Seracen]

hot_heart wrote...

Haha, oh god, I just realised, and after giving it much thought actually, that where Seracen gave me feedback about a word choice he wasn't too fond of, I'd meant to put wiggle not wriggle.

Either way, I'd changed it to something simpler, since that probably works better.

Heh, I think I'd have liked "wiggle" even less, but yeah, the simple option just sounded better.  I struggle with word choices like that on a regular basis.

Anyhoo, giving you feedback encouraged me to finally grapple with a tough chapter I was writing, so thanks for that! :happy:

Ignis Mors wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that I'm insane. Goddess "The Lost Asari" is around 100,000 words. Proofing it now. I'm just hoping I can get someone invested enough in the characters to actually read the thing. It was a hell of a lot of fun writing. The Protagonist goes through an evolution in character. It's an action story and has sub plots, and several micro plots. I cut a lot out of it. 

I'm wondering about the best site to post it, and how to post it. I've got an account on FanFiction site, and it's in Word 2010 right now or I could link it to my Wix page as a .pdf for free download.

So does a 100,000 word FF officially qualify me as insane?

If a 100,000k ff means you're crazy, I'm the Joker levels of insane. My main ME trilogy fic which hasn't even reached the reaper invasion(and I have a lot of stuff planned for after that) is currently at two hundred seventy-thousand, and my KotOR fic which hasn't even reached Revan defying the Council and joining the war is at ninety-nine thousand words. And, I don't think I'm that crazy, so I'd say that you're probably fine. 

I wouldn't say "insane" so much as "passionate."  If anything, I often turn to writing to provide a vent, thereby preserving what little sanity I have left.

Although the term masochist might apply slightly! 

As for investment, I love reading grand sweeping epics!  Of course, for such things, I generally save up chapters, or wait until full publication.

EDIT:  Also agree with Fluffy, it's easy for me to get invested in a large body of work, provided the writing stays compelling.  As for posting PDF's, you can upload it to Deviant Art as well, if you don't feel like doing a chapter-by-chapter.

Modifié par Seracen, 27 janvier 2014 - 01:41 .

[fluffywalrus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that I'm insane. Goddess "The Lost Asari" is around 100,000 words. Proofing it now. I'm just hoping I can get someone invested enough in the characters to actually read the thing. It was a hell of a lot of fun writing. The Protagonist goes through an evolution in character. It's an action story and has sub plots, and several micro plots. I cut a lot out of it.

I'm wondering about the best site to post it, and how to post it. I've got an account on FanFiction site, and it's in Word 2010 right now or I could link it to my Wix page as a .pdf for free download.

So does a 100,000 word FF officially qualify me as insane?

Haha, well, I would say that you might be a teensy bit insane, much like the rest of us. I know I've got about 830k words of stuff published on ffnet and just recently passed the 1 million word mark in my total written works laying on my PC. I think I went a bit insane after i finished my first story, which was about 130k, so you're probably spot on with the guesstimate of 100k being a solid milestone for that. But as Seracen said, we may be crazy, but we're also passionate about our work! Like, wizard-level passionate!

Seriously, though? regarding story length, every story I've published that's passed the 100k mark has seen an uptick in viewers, meaning there are people who filter stories by the 100k+ words option. There are people that invested (and while it depends on the speed someone reads in, I can mill through 100k in a few short hours so long as the writing isn't stilted and full of formatting, spelling and grammar errors), so I wouldn't worry too much about readership. Though if you want to get as big an audience as possible, it would be a good idea to post in one chapter increments, build a readership for the story, build the story's review count, which will get your story higher up on the archive lists. I personally don't particularly care, but some authors post chapters that are 1-2k words long, and have a good 100+ chapters to their story, and their review count is crazy high, meaning if people sort by reviews, it's generally high up. Longer chapters usually mean less reviews in total, even if the reviews per chapter count is similar. Just some food for thought in case that's important for you.

I would say FFnet would be a good idea if you want it to be viewed by a bunch of people. Linking to the other site for a pdf version would be a decent add-on, though many (like me) use programs that convert stories on ffnet to pdfs anyway.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Thanks for the information, Fluffy.

I keep my chapters in the 5-6k range. It's fast reading. I've been told that I'm pretty good with suspense and dialogue. I'm a character writer. Characters hate to be ignored. They get bent out of shape. I know I'm not a literary genius so I make no pretense at it. I want you to turn pages. What takes me a lot of time is going through and reading all of the dialogue aloud. If dialogue doesn't flow well spoken it gets edited until it does. This can be a pain in the butt, however it's worth it. Then I'll proof read it myself. Then I'll see if I can get someone else to proof it who isn't close to the story.