9959 respuestas en este tema

[Sigyn2011]

fainmaca wrote...

Sigyn2011 wrote...

Did she biotically jump and crash through a ceiling on a planet? Ha ha. Otherwise in space, hmm....that can't exactly happen. So that's where I'd limit it myself.

Oh? why couldn't it happen in space? I'm asking because that's where it did happen. Jack jumps out of the Normandy, then uses her biotics to accelerate to her target. She uses the following atmospheric evacuation to clear out most of the enemies within while generating a Barrier which she used to keep herself grounded inside.

Because there's no gravity in space.  But since she did use her biotics to do so, then it could happen.  That's what I was asking.  So have at it.  

[lillitheris]

Not incidentally, I found some advice on the comma…

http://opinionator.b...comma-mistakes/
http://opinionator.b...omma-questions/

[hot_heart]

Maybe if you acknowledge that having to use biotics for that sort of thing would leave you completely exhausted (as it might well do). Sort of makes some attempt to balance it out.

Not sure if this is the right place to say it, but I think a lot of fanfic writers would do well to forget the videogame aspect of Mass Effect. As in, don't talk about 'doing' a power, or using an 'Incinerate', or stripping a shield down to a 'health/armour bar'. Nor do I think characters would be saying things like, "He's a good soldier. He was headshotting people before I could even get near." It all sounds very unnatural.

I won't name where I have seen those but they are all genuine examples.

[o Ventus]

hot_heart wrote...

Maybe if you acknowledge that having to use biotics for that sort of thing would leave you completely exhausted (as it might well do). Sort of makes some attempt to balance it out.

Not sure if this is the right place to say it, but I think a lot of fanfic writers would do well to forget the videogame aspect of Mass Effect. As in, don't talk about 'doing' a power, or using an 'Incinerate', or stripping a shield down to a 'health/armour bar'. Nor do I think characters would be saying things like, "He's a good soldier. He was headshotting people before I could even get near." It all sounds very unnatural.

I won't name where I have seen those but they are all genuine examples.

I actually LOL'd at the bold.

For real though, when I go for a combat scene, the closest I get to the games is the use of the names of the powers (And even then, only for biotics and Overload). By that, I don't mean I'll write something like "And then, Shepard hit the left bumper and threw a Warp at them". I personally think that using the names of powers is perfectly fine (Again, only for biotics and Overload), since characters in the games say the names themselves numerous times (In cutscenes, no less). For example, on Mars, Liara says "I'll trap them with a singularity!"

[hot_heart]

Yeah, I guess it's fine in some regards. More about sensing what feels natural. I can't recall them shouting "Overload!" but I do remember "Overloading shields!" or something like that.

I think in mine I referred to it as the 'omni-tool's overload function'. If you're writing prose it's much easier to establish the action and contextualise it, adding some flavour as well.

This probably also covers 'maybe the characters aren't quite so vocal in those regards if writing a fic.' It would strike me as odd if the characters kept calling out every time they used an ability, as it is an audio response more catered to videogame design.

Editado por hot_heart, 27 mayo 2012 - 07:35 .

[o Ventus]

hot_heart wrote...

Yeah, I guess it's fine in some regards. More about sensing what feels natural. I can't recall them shouting "Overload!" but I do remember "Overloading shields!" or something like that.

I think in mine I referred to it as the 'omni-tool's overload function'. If you're writing prose it's much easier to establish the action and contextualise it, adding some flavour as well.

This probably also covers 'maybe the characters aren't quite so vocal in those regards if writing a fic.' It would strike me as odd if the characters kept calling out every time they used an ability, as it is an audio response more catered to videogame design.

Of course. I wasn't saying that the characters need to be like Pokèmon trainers, shouting "Omni-tool, use Overload!" every other second.

Just more or less that it's ok to verbalize the characters' powers. It's not too much of a stretch to hear Miranda say "Overloading their systems!" when using Overload (Actually, she says those exact words when using Overload), or Shepard giving a command to "Burn 'em out!" when referencing Incinerate or Inferno Grenade.

[lillitheris]

^ The names should be fine…the biotics school teaches you to create a Singularity, so that’s what it is. To spice up a fanfic one could elaborate that these are the basic techniques and you can (or must) make slight changes depending on the situation, or that you can invent your own manipulations, things like that.

Overload is the name of the program on your omnitool (or whatever) etc.

(Also, accounting for enhanced tech, I wouldn’t think it at all impossible that the combat software in your suit or omni would automatically recognize this stuff and notify you.)

Editado por lillitheris, 27 mayo 2012 - 08:02 .

[fainmaca]

Sigyn2011 wrote...

Because there's no gravity in space. But since she did use her biotics to do so, then it could happen. That's what I was asking. So have at it.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I guess when it comes to the laws of physics and gravity biotics kind of make up their own rules. To be fair, though, she did have Joker perform a manouvre that nearly snapped the Normandy in half to give her a little extra inertia before she even used her biotics.

lillitheris wrote...

It’s a fine line. Unless you use your biotic powers to bring down a moon on the line and obliterate it, that is.

In your particular situation I’m actually less bothered by the jump than a space-facing surface that can be breached so easily!

I definitely like the more realistic take – inasmuch as any of us know what the reality is – but I suppose I don’t mind a consistent cinematic approach either. The worst possible thing is keeping things realistic(ish) and then suddenly going all House of the Flying Daggers.

I actually addressed this quite blatantly in Unity, explicitly going for a “Huh.” rather than “OMGAMAZE!” – maybe even too blatantly

Regardless of which way you go, though, I think exceptionals remain the bigger problem. Exceptionally powerful characters, ultra-outliers, are probably the surest way to get into trouble.

Edit: er, actually finished the above paragraph.

True. There are some things that are just clear over the line. I mean, we hardly want to see the Mass Effect version of the Hero battle over the lake, do we?

But I guess a large part of it is what the franchise can support. We may be okay with something like that in oriental films, but when it goes into a sci-fi series it would just be laughed out. I guess I'm trying to get a gauge of what Mass Effect could support.

When you reference exceptional characters, would you include Shepard's squad in that circle? I mean, their whole premise is that they are the best of the best and have no match. Do you find it hard not to slip into the trap of making these extraordinary individuals just a little too extraordinary?

P.S. as for the material, its kind of a theme I'm running with with the structure. Considering who owns it, its meant to convey a surprisingly artistic side to them that nobody expects from what we've been shown so far in the actual franchise (and probably isn't canon, from what ME3 showed us)

@ hot_heart and o Ventus:

Hmm. I guess I'm a little guilty of naming powers in my fic. I try to turn it into prose (i.e. whenever Shep activates his Adrenaline Rush I always say somthing about issuing the mental command to activate his adrenal implants, or as hot_heart said above mentioning a Tech power as the omnitool's X function). Biotics I just refer to by their names, as I imagine that's how it'd go in the in-game universe anyway. I always capitalise a power's name to show that 'this is the same as in-game action X', so its always the Incinerate or Overload functions, and the biotics use Warp blasts and Shockwaves.

As for the almost gamer-created speech, like headshotting and so on, I try to avoid it. Sure, Garrus may crow about the occiasional Headshot, but I try to minimise that and I only ever use what we hear in-game. Certainly there's no mention of it from the narrative perspective.

And as for referencing Health bars... yeah... no. Just no. That is taking it a little too far, IMHO.

[hot_heart]

fainmaca wrote...
@ hot_heart and o Ventus:

Hmm. I guess I'm a little guilty of naming powers in my fic. I try to turn it into prose (i.e. whenever Shep activates his Adrenaline Rush I always say somthing about issuing the mental command to activate his adrenal implants, or as hot_heart said above mentioning a Tech power as the omnitool's X function). Biotics I just refer to by their names, as I imagine that's how it'd go in the in-game universe anyway. I always capitalise a power's name to show that 'this is the same as in-game action X', so its always the Incinerate or Overload functions, and the biotics use Warp blasts and Shockwaves.

Your example sounds perfectly fine to my ears. As Ventus was saying, it's not as if the character 'uses his Adrenaline Rush'. There's some sort of organic writing of the concept into the story. I've seen many writers do it perfectly fine. I was just talking about a basic 'DON'T'

I'd not known about 'biotics school' and teaching names (oops!) but I think certain examples sound a little weird (to me anyway). I know Ieldra found a novel way of describing Warp, avoiding saying something like 'Miranda Warped the soldier' and I couldn't imagine someone writing 'Miranda did a Slam'.

As I was saying, though, I think it all comes down to how naturally it fits with the story. It's all good, as long as it doesn't pull you out of it, reminding you it's based on a videogame. It's just a handy thought to keep in mind when writing.

[lillitheris]

fainmaca wrote...

But I guess a large part of it is what the franchise can support. We may be okay with something like that in oriental films, but when it goes into a sci-fi series it would just be laughed out. I guess I'm trying to get a gauge of what Mass Effect could support.

I think for ME you can go either way, just so long as you’re consistent. I’d peg your scene ‘cinematic’ because if Jack’s (biotically accelerated) mass can breach it, you could probably just shoot it up first, or have Jack throw something else at it first and then jump through.

For realism, let’s use your Jack-in-Ship: if you come up ever-more-elaborate justifications for something like Jack needing to do it herself because kinetic barriers will catch a bullet but not something thrown, and not being able to e.g. throw something else at it first and jump in after because there’s an ultra-barrier that comes up immediately etc., etc. …then you’re probably overcomplicating it.

In the real world, simple is always better. If in doubt, think about Indiana Jones vs. the swordsman.

(Caveat: I’ve not read the scene so this is purely hypothetical, you may actually have much better reasons that I’m just not aware of.)

When you reference exceptional characters, would you include Shepard's squad in that circle? I mean, their whole premise is that they are the best of the best and have no match. Do you find it hard not to slip into the trap of making these extraordinary individuals just a little too extraordinary?

It is hard, have to constantly be mindful of it. The worst case, of course, is that you only notice you overdid something after the fact…those types of problems could maybe be resolved by having the character fail in a similar or even easier situation afterwards.

With Shepard, I think the key word is ‘squad’.

Each individual is exceptional, maybe even the very best in the galaxy at what they do (although realistically probably not, it’s a big place). However, ‘best’ only applies to individuals, and only in a certain field. It’s the squad that makes the difference.

That said, here’s an apropos maybe-spoiler quote from chapter 4:

"What's that dumb f– toast you jarheads think sounds profound as s–? ‘There's few like us and they're all dead' or whatever?"

Ignoring the barbs, Vega just nodded.

"Eevs took us all for a reason," Jack continued after studying Vega for a moment.

"There's even fewer like us. We kill the ones that aren't."

I guess my approach would be to always try to make sure that ‘the best’ is never as good as the two next best combined (although, of course, may be much higher compared to average), and to always highlight teamwork, support by others, and so on.

Editado por lillitheris, 27 mayo 2012 - 08:58 .

[o Ventus]

fainmaca wrote...

@ hot_heart and o Ventus:

Hmm. I guess I'm a little guilty of naming powers in my fic. I try to turn it into prose (i.e. whenever Shep activates his Adrenaline Rush I always say somthing about issuing the mental command to activate his adrenal implants, or as hot_heart said above mentioning a Tech power as the omnitool's X function). Biotics I just refer to by their names, as I imagine that's how it'd go in the in-game universe anyway. I always capitalise a power's name to show that 'this is the same as in-game action X', so its always the Incinerate or Overload functions, and the biotics use Warp blasts and Shockwaves.

As for the almost gamer-created speech, like headshotting and so on, I try to avoid it. Sure, Garrus may crow about the occiasional Headshot, but I try to minimise that and I only ever use what we hear in-game. Certainly there's no mention of it from the narrative perspective.

And as for referencing Health bars... yeah... no. Just no. That is taking it a little too far, IMHO.

I'm sort of the same. In my fic Dead Men I used the names of the powers (again though, only biotics and Overload) for combat scenes. It just makes more sense to hear "Warping their armor" as opposed to "Sending a biotic field that shreds their armor".

I don't think I've used any gamer-speak (like headshot) yet. If I do (or have), it'll be spoken by soldier-type characters, like Garrus. It'd be awkward seeing someone like Liara or Tali shouting "Wow, I just no-scoped that guy!"

[lillitheris]

I mentioned analysis earlier…I dunno if this is of any use to you guys, but I might as well jot this down since I can’t actually write the fic right now…

Just to be clear, this is really just a case study of analysis you can do yourself to maybe find good places to look for improvements Basic spreadsheet + graph, no magic involved. The conclusions (or guesses) are never absolutes, just potentially interesting. Never let numbers enslave you.

This is a useful visualization from the Visitors number on FFN (same visitor is only counted once per 24 hours). Click for bigger:



You can ignore the numbers and the colors, they’re mostly just festive. The crucial data is the top line as it travels through the chapters 2-14.

What we see here:

• I’m ignoring the Intro and Chapter 1 in my analysis, they’re too volatile to provide good data.
• Drop from 1 to 2 (not shown) is about 50%, much of which are probably instant discards, but the number can also be padded by various factors like people re-reading.
• Drop from 2 to 3 is fairly significant, something like 30%? My assumption is these folks gave it the old college try and went past chapter 1 but still couldn’t get into it.
• There’s a strange dip in 4.
• 3 and 5 are about equal, coming back up from the dip.
• There’s steady low attrition from 5 to 7.
• Drop from 7 to 8 is noticeably steeper than the 5-7 trend.
• Drop from 8 to 9 is even more significant: about 25%.
• From 9 through 14, the rate of decrease is fairly steady again.

So, what can we conclude (with some confidence)?

• Chapter 11 is roughly the number of *definite* regular readers, but there’s a steady ‘wave’ coming through the chapters so the number will likely increase eventually.
• The drop between the first and third chapters is significant, but probably very typical for almost all fics.
• The dip in 4 is interesting. Without giving much away, 4 is a special kind of chapter, which may play a role here. fainmaca mentions two possibilities in a post below: it could be that because 4 is very short, there are few people who have to split reading it over two days  (which could register as two visitors) like they might have to do with 3 and 5. Re-readers might also skip 4 because once you get what it’s about, its details aren’t that important. There are numerous other options starting from there being a problem with counting hits on FFN:s side all the way to 3 and 5 being inflated instead.
• There’s a natural curve that you can see descending from chapters 5 to 14. This is expected for various reasons: the first chapters have been available longer, some people will start a reread or just refer back to the previous chapters, and there’s also some amount of actual attrition, to mention a few. Essentially, you need not worry about any of the chapters where the curve continues naturally. So, that means:
• Chapters 7 and especially 8 show drops that clearly differ from the overall curve, meaning that there could exist problems in these two.

I have done copyediting on all chapters at least once (no story changes, just grammar, sentence structure etc.). This means that it’s possible that the dip in 7 and 8 is just an artifact from before I polished the chapter as new readers have a better experience than the early ones. We can ignore it for now.

This leaves us with the possibility that the drops in 7 and 8 indicate that there is (still) something in those chapters that turns people off. Worth investigating even if it turns out you won’t find anything, right?

So, plan of action: read through to ensure grammar, sentence structure etc. are OK -> copyedit as necessary -> try to find other problems in continuity, characterization, significant events, … -> (try to get more input on previous point from other people if you can) -> try to fix or learn from problems if possible.

Lastly, there’s the matter of examining the plot/narrative itself even though I personally won’t rewrite the plot (Artistic Integrity™) unless there’s a very good reason.

In my case, there actually is a significant plot element in 8. Is it possible that it would be the cause? Maybe – but if you’re like me, it’s academic since you won’t change it without a convincing reason anyway.

Editado por lillitheris, 28 mayo 2012 - 04:30 .

[Severyx]

So here's something new to me. My original character/original plot story, Mass Effect: Going Dark, has gone on for quite some time - now totaling well over 280K words. I never expected this experiment to go as far as it has, nor even have any readers, especially this far in. I'm now within two chapters of completing the story before I go over it in its entirety to optimize/fix errors/streamline the story.

I'm actually quite saddened by the fact that it's coming to an end. It's been in the works for a year and a half, and I've grown attached to the characters in a way I never expected, even as their creator. Has this ever happened to anyone, or am I just weird?

[Sigyn2011]

I like the last part of your banner--it made me chuckle.

[Sigyn2011]

Severyx wrote...

So here's something new to me. My original character/original plot story, Mass Effect: Going Dark, has gone on for quite some time - now totaling well over 280K words. I never expected this experiment to go as far as it has, nor even have any readers, especially this far in. I'm now within two chapters of completing the story before I go over it in its entirety to optimize/fix errors/streamline the story.

I'm actually quite saddened by the fact that it's coming to an end. It's been in the works for a year and a half, and I've grown attached to the characters in a way I never expected, even as their creator. Has this ever happened to anyone, or am I just weird?

No, it's not weird.  I grow attached to my creations as well.  I heard somebody say that somehow, little bits of you end up in your own creation, whether you intend them to or not.  Creativity is not a bad thing by any means.  Some pieces of fiction that I've read are so professionally written that I can't help but wonder if some pro authors do happen to post on ffdotnet.  And then...there are others that fit in the opposite category of that spectrum.

[fainmaca]

@lillitheris: Just to check, are these numbers taken from FF.net?

If so, the drop between even chapter 1 and 2 should be at the very least half, so don't be surprised by the steep drop at the start of the fic. This is because not many people actually go straight to the chapter they want to read. If they click on the name of the fic, they'll go straight to chapter 1. This hugely inflates the numebrs, especially as you post more and more chapters. In addition, people do go back and read through the fic again, so sometimes you'll have someone read the first few chapters several times while they've only read the latest ones once or twice. (for example, my first chapter is sitting at 12k hits, while chapter 2 and 3 are at 3 and 2 k, respectively. My second-to-latest chapter is sitting  on 1k hits. I won't count chapter 46 in this becuase it was only put up yesterday and hasn't had time to collect a viable number.

Also consider chapter length. Longer chapters may require readers to come back to them a second time to read all the way through (e.g. in my fic there's a chapter that's 75k words, and I highly doubt anyone reads that all in one sitting).

Don't worry too much about the why of the steady slope. If there was a big issue driving readers away, they would let you know about it. (I've had someone leave a review stating that they were only there for the Jackmance and there wasn't enough to keep them hooked, so they were going). As it is, just assume that a lot of readers still have to catch up (we all have lives beyond the internet, after all!). Eventually your reader numbers will find a balance.

@severyx: I admit, I am pretty attached to my characters right now. and what's more, I know what hardships still await them, and what tragedies they'll have to face in coming missions. I just know that, come the epilogue, I'll be loathe to let go. Just like when you finish reading Lord of the Rings or watching the Star Wars saga for the first time. You don't want to let go, but you're satisfied by the conclusion of a good story. Notice how Bioware don't get a single mention in there.

[Icyflare]

Just jumping into the reviews discussion some posts back. As a writer myself, I understand how discouraging it is when you have over a 1000 visitors to your first chapter and two reviews to show for it.

Perhaps, some prompting at the end or beginning of the stories might help with the number. Nothing whiny like "REVIEW PLOX" but something simple like "if you could take 30 seconds to type down an honest review, I'd appreciate that"--sort of thing. People forget sometimes, and small things like that can go a long way to helping you achieve what you want.

I have to confess that I read more than I write, and I review more than I publish. From a reviewer's perspective, it's hard to give meaningful, well-thought out praise and criticism every chapter. If I was forced to review something I just read, it would probably end up as an positive comment that lacks constructive criticism, which many of you are familiar with (e.g. "YOU ROCK", "Ahahaha! Shepard is the best lololololololol").

That being said, there's a reason why many people don't review, and one of them is that it just takes time to absorb the story before making a contribution that is sincere and helpful to the writer's narrative elements. My advice after adding prompts every now and then is just be patient or advertise specifically that you want well-thought out reviews. May not help much, but it's better than having three reviews for 200,000 words.

Editado por Icyflare, 27 mayo 2012 - 11:52 .

[lillitheris]

fainmaca wrote...

@lillitheris: Just to check, are these numbers taken from FF.net?

Yep, and only Visitor number, I don’t use Hits at all. The ratio is on the order of 1:3 V:H. 

(There’re actually some trends you could possibly find by looking at Hits vs. Visitors, too, if you were so inclined.)

Also, it’s just intended as a case study of what to look for, really, not so much about my particulars.

If so, the drop between even chapter 1 and 2 should be at the very least half, so don't be surprised by the steep drop at the start of the fic. This is because not many people actually go straight to the chapter they want to read. If they click on the name of the fic, they'll go straight to chapter 1. This hugely inflates the numebrs, especially as you post more and more chapters

Ah yes, good additional contributor. I essentially only analyze 2 onwards as I mentioned, the previous two are too volatile.

(I also have a somewhat rare setup in that my first chapter is the Intro/Glossary/DP, and second is Chapter 1:))

Also consider chapter length. Longer chapters may require readers to come back to them a second time to read all the way through (e.g. in my fic there's a chapter that's 75k words, and I highly doubt anyone reads that all in one sitting).

Good point. Using the 24-hour unique Visitor count removes some of that, but not all.

Don't worry too much about the why of the steady slope. If there was a big issue driving readers away, they would let you know about it. (I've had someone leave a review stating that they were only there for the Jackmance and there wasn't enough to keep them hooked, so they were going). As it is, just assume that a lot of readers still have to catch up (we all have lives beyond the internet, after all!). Eventually your reader numbers will find a balance.

I’ll try to ‘clarify’ and ‘extend’ that part of the example – the slope is definitely a natural feature (whatever the cause). I mainly mentioned it because you can see how the two chapters don’t fit in that pattern.

[MrStoob]

Icyflare wrote...


Just jumping into the reviews discussion some posts back. As a writer myself, I understand how discouraging it is when you have over a 1000 visitors to your first chapter and two reviews to show for it.

Perhaps, some prompting at the end or beginning of the stories might help with the number. Nothing whiny like "REVIEW PLOX" but something simple like "if you could take 30 seconds to type down an honest review, I'd appreciate that"--sort of thing. People forget sometimes, and small things like that can go a long way to helping you achieve what you want.

I have to confess that I read more than I write, and I review more than I publish. From a reviewer's perspective, it's hard to give meaningful, well-thought out praise and criticism every chapter. If I was forced to review something I just read, it would probably end up as an positive comment that lacks constructive criticism, which many of you are familiar with (e.g. "YOU ROCK", "Ahahaha! Shepard is the best lololololololol").

That being said, there's a reason why many people don't review, and one of them is that it just takes time to absorb the story before making a contribution that is sincere and helpful to the writer's narrative elements. My advice after adding prompts every now and then is just be patient or advertise specifically that you want well-thought out reviews. May not help much, but it's better than having three reviews for 200,000 words.

Reviewing is difficult.  As you say, it's too easy just say "that was great!" even if the work wasn't 100%  It doesn't let the writer know what you liked, and more importantly what you didn't.

Liked the dialogue?  Say so.

Liked the characters and how they were presented/developed?  Again, tell them.

Paragraph a little confusing and needs re-reading a couple of times to make sense of it?  Let them know.  The paragraph probably makes sense to them because they know what they wanted to say, but would probably appreciate that you point it out so they can re-work it with 'readability' in mind.

And so on.  

I have this trouble every month with my music challenge.  There's usually like 20-30 songs to get around to commenting on, it becomes difficult not to use the same phrases of praise on every song lol.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Well, it would be great if I would get more reviews and feedback on my story linked in my sig. It's the first time I've ever attempted at writing a multi-chapter story. I'm pretty humbled that I had at least over a dozen people add my story and me to their favorites list, hopefully that number will continue to grow as I write more chapters.

[o Ventus]

What exactly is the difference between "hits" and "visitors"?

Every single other website I go to tends to categorize them as more or less the same thing.

[MidnightRaith]

o Ventus wrote...

What exactly is the difference between "hits" and "visitors"?

Every single other website I go to tends to categorize them as more or less the same thing.

Hits are essentially the number of times you story has been clicked on. You can have multiple hits per visitor. Visitors are the number of unique people that view your story.

[jdtungsten]

o Ventus wrote...

What exactly is the difference between "hits" and "visitors"?

Every single other website I go to tends to categorize them as more or less the same thing.

I believe "hits" stands for how many times someone goes into that chapter or story. And "visitors" stands for how many individuals go into that chapter or story. I am not sure if the site recognizes a visitor as a IP address or as a log in account so maybe if you aren't log in and go into multiple times it will show multiple visitors and hits. Hope that is helpful.

[o Ventus]

MidnightRaith wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

What exactly is the difference between "hits" and "visitors"?

Every single other website I go to tends to categorize them as more or less the same thing.

Hits are essentially the number of times you story has been clicked on. You can have multiple hits per visitor. Visitors are the number of unique people that view your story.

That explains why I have nearly twice as many hits (~650) as visitors (~330) for Salvation.