9962 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

I can't commit to another collaboration considering I'm still in the middle of one.

[hot_heart]

I don't really have a problem with the VS having trust issues, and the squad definitely needed some tension in it. Too many boring friendly faces.

Liara never seemed like she fit the role of information broker, and it did feel like a way to shoehorn her in. Tali is...Tali.

ME2 characters got a bit too sidelined, but the writers did an OK job with Jack and Miranda (though how someone like Jack would be allowed to teach, I don't know) considering the direction they were given.

[PMC65]

As someone who went from tomboy to a woman in dresses I loved Ash's new look and could relate. I didn't realize that giving up jeans for dresses and makeup made me a bimbo. Good to know.

Now back to writing!


 

[fainmaca]

@Ursakar: Times like these I feel prompted to quote one of my fave lines from Kasumi in ME2: 'Could be wrose. Not sure how but, I guess it could be full of rats.'

@DpMeggers: Yeah, I guess the changes could be justified from a certain point of view. Its just with Liara I felt like LoTSB was more or less ignored, especially by them taking the resource of that ship away from us off-screen. When I was starting the game it kind of went like this:

GAME: While you weren't looking, your Shepard was arrested.

ME: Aww.

G: Also, your entire team scattered, none of them choosing to stand by your side.

M: Wha-?

G: Also, your ship was impounded, given over to a bunch of trigger happy techies, and totally gutted. On the plus side, you've got this slick blue paint job, whether you like it or not. on the downside, we think Serviceman McAllister may have flushed your Space Hamster down the toilet. We're not sure. things were pretty hectic when we tore out the badass top-of-the-line laboratory setup that would have been so useful studying Reaper tech, seeing as that is so much more complex than the Collector tech you needed to analyse before.

M: Uhh...

G: Then the guy/girl who turned their back on you in the last game got extra-special treatment!

M: Ooh?

G: We gave them a huge promotion, and now they earn more than you do, even though all they did before was follow your lead. If anything, they're getting all the rewards for the hard work during the chase against Saren, while you get branded a lunatic.

M: Oh.

G: But guess what? here's Liara!

M: Ooh?

G: We blew up the badass ship you gave her.

M: Ah.

G: Also Cerberus is completely evil now, and they've got more soldiers than any other force in the Galaxy, even though they're a small splinter group of the Alliance military.

M: Huh?

G: But guess what? That's all fine because we gave you the bestest buddy ever: Jim! You totally love all the same things, know all about each other already, swap stories at bedtime, and you totally think that he's better than your entire team from the last game, so you'll never need any of them ever again. Why would you? You've got Jim. Is it okay if he calls you names?

M:...........................

... Sorry, I got a little distracted with that scene. might have got carried away. Anyway, what was my point again?

[dpMeggers]

PMC65 wrote...

As someone who went from tomboy to a woman in dresses I loved Ash's new look and could relate. I didn't realize that giving up jeans for dresses and makeup made me a bimbo. Good to know.

Now back to writing!


 

Giving up jeans for dresses and makeup doesn't make a civillian a bimbo. Ash is a Marine. The marines have regulations about hairstyle, makeup etc. We feel that the way she was made to look doesn't suit her lifestyle. Like I said about the concept art, a ponytail/bun would have made more sense in the context.

Edit: @ fainmaca Aww, come on now. It's not Vega's fault he got stuck guarding you. It's also not his fault the game makes you get along with him (I think - I like him, so he gets away with the nicknames and irreverance).

Modifié par dpMeggers, 20 juin 2012 - 06:13 .

[lillitheris]

PMC65 wrote...

As someone who went from tomboy to a woman in dresses I loved Ash's new look and could relate.

It’s…impractical, when you’re in a gunfight.

I didn't realize that giving up jeans for dresses and makeup made me a bimbo. Good to know.

It’s really just a part of the sexehfication of ME3.

[Drussius]

fainmaca wrote...

*snip*

on the downside, we think Serviceman McAllister may have flushed your Space Hamster down the toilet. We're not sure.

*snip*

This whole post was funny. Thank you for the laugh. But I wanted to point out that the Space Hamster is down in Jack's old room under Engineering. It scurries back and forth across the area whenever you enter the space. If you're fast you can catch him and put him back in your room.

[PMC65]

In combat I don't see a problem with Ash ... now Liara ...



But these are debates for other threads ... the characters and how they were written is what should matter here. After all, you can put Ash in a ponytail or make Liara wear Alliance armor out in the field in your stories. Sweet!

[lillitheris]

Eevs had a long discussion with Liara about wearing armor…in the end, she had a custom-fit one ordered (measuring can be fun! ) because Liara kept complaining about human armor not really fitting despite the propaganda from before… plus the helmet needs to be specially molded, and padded entirely differently than a human’s.

[survivor_686]

Out of simple curiousity would Alliance captains carry their pistols with them, even when they're on the ship? Do modern day captains carry their sidearms? I know the marines that guard the CIC carry rifles, but would the crewmembers carry their sidearms on a warship (Alliance or Modern).

Am trying to incorporate a mexican side-off into the arc, but am kinda stuck on this point.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Drussius]

survivor_686 wrote...

Out of simple curiousity would Alliance captains carry their pistols with them, even when they're on the ship? Do modern day captains carry their sidearms? I know the marines that guard the CIC carry rifles, but would the crewmembers carry their sidearms on a warship (Alliance or Modern).

Am trying to incorporate a mexican side-off into the arc, but am kinda stuck on this point.

Any help would be much appreciated.

I'm not sure whether officers would carry a sidearm on the ship unless the ship had been boarded or they were expecting it to be. As you said, there are guards on duty with weapons, but I've never spotted any of the officers carrying a weapon on the ship during any in-game cutscenes and whatnot.

With that said, however, if it makes sense for your story to have them carrying sidearms, then do it. You can always include a few lines somewhere in the story about the risk of indoctrinated sleeper agents rising, and that all essential personnel should carry a sidearm at all times (of course, some people would argue that this increases the risk of an armed, indoctrinated sleeper, and rightly so), but in the end it is all about what works best in your story.

[fainmaca]

@PMC65: I have offended you, and I apologise. My comments on Ash's changes were not meant to be applied to anyone in the real world. People do change, but when it comes through an entertainment medium, there has to be something behind it. Ash has no reason to change, unlike Jack with her 'maturation'. And speaking as someone with a bit of military history in his family (my deceased father was in the Royal Navy, and my grandfather was in the army), I find the whole idea of a career soldier glamming it up to go into battle at the very least difficult to believe, at worst slightly insulting. When you're under fire, you don't want your team mates to be worrying about how the weather will mess up their perm. The others (Miranda, Jack, Liara) can be forgiven this, as they're not soldiers. Miranda's an agent, used to relying on her skills as a civilian just as much as her combat skills to accomplish her goals. And as for Jack... I can't picture any member of the squad more civilian than her. She doesn't have firing range training, she learned all of her tricks in bar-room brawls. Ash has generations of military history behind her, and I'd bet her ancestors would frown upon her going into the battlefield (in a Galaxy where the conflict is only getting bigger, rougher, and spreading further and further with every day) all tarted up. This is all I will say on the issue.

@dpMeggers: Yeah, Vega was alright, but he instantly suffered because I foisted all the blame for not having my roguish twelve with me onto his steroid-filled shoulders. I just didn't appreciate being dropped into the middle of this with no ability to at least try to influence it. the opening would have been improved tenfold if we could play through handing ourselves in, either going meekly, making a bold statement about how they were making a mistake, or making it clear that we're doing this all for the right reasons. A chance to be unrepentant when they slap us in irons, that kind of thing. Even a chance to talk to our squad before they scatter, instructing them to do what they can to prepare because they know what's coming. Do we face our upcoming imprisonment stoically, or do we appear to give into despair? That kind of thing. Then introduce this new character, cut forward to the invasion of Earth and we're at least civil with one another, if not friendly. ME1 made no assumptions that we were Kaidan, Joker or Chakwas' friend. We learned about them, then decided how to treat them. Same in ME2, where they made it clear it was up to us to get to know the people we're given for our team of badasses. 3 just makes too many assumptions and choices for us.

@Drussius: Yeah, that toilet line was the only way I figured Davis made his way all the way down there.

@Survivor_686: I'm not sure. I'd imagine that, at a time of war, the commander of a starship would have some kind of weapon on him at all times.

[Drussius]

fainmaca wrote...

@Drussius: Yeah, that toilet line was the only way I figured Davis made his way all the way down there.

@Survivor_686: I'm not sure. I'd imagine that, at a time of war, the commander of a starship would have some kind of weapon on him at all times.

Ah. I didn't discover the Space Hamster at all in my first playthrough. So I thought others might genuinely not realize it's down there. Perhaps I am just very unobservant.

And as for the firearms on the ship thing... It can make sense from one perspective. I wouldn't consider it out of place if I read it in a fanfic. However, I don't imagine there is a lot of call for a pistol on a starship, since if the enemy boards your vessel, you'd probably know it was coming well in advance since they'd have to disable your kinetic barriers and cripple the ship first. Plus, most ship-to-ship conflicts probably don't include a boarding party. Your Mass Accellerator Cannon/Thanix just rips their ship to pieces and that's the end of it.

[PMC65]

fainmaca - I was just teasing you ... no offense was taken.  

[dpMeggers]

survivor_686 wrote...

Out of simple curiousity would Alliance captains carry their pistols with them, even when they're on the ship? Do modern day captains carry their sidearms? I know the marines that guard the CIC carry rifles, but would the crewmembers carry their sidearms on a warship (Alliance or Modern).

Am trying to incorporate a mexican side-off into the arc, but am kinda stuck on this point.

Any help would be much appreciated.

I would say that it's not likely but given the circumstances of galactic war, a sufficiently paranoid/well prepared captain might carry a side-arm with them at all times.


And now a question: I've delayed writing the newest chapter of Conversations because I'm worried that a) it's starting to push the story to be a little too Tess-centric and Tess is starting to become a little bit Mary Sue. So my question: does anyone have any suggestions for how to avoid that particular pitfall?

Edit: To clarify, Tess is an OC from Shepard's past - her brother was a good friend of his and served with the unit on Akuze.

Modifié par dpMeggers, 20 juin 2012 - 11:02 .

[Drussius]

Meg: I'm afraid I'm not much help in that arena, since I think I overcompensated for a while on the Mary Sue dilemma by giving my characters too many flaws/insecurities/tragic background neuroses/etc. Which in turn has led me in my more recent writing to swing a little too far the other way, back into Mary Sue territory... I have this problem in many areas. Another example: I don't like stereotypes, which leads me to create many non-stereotypical characters, to the point where non-stereotypical is my new stereotype. I'm sure anyone who actually reads my fic when I start publishing it will notice that trend...

Haven't gotten around to reading your fics yet, though they are my list, so I'm afraid I can't tell you if you're actually treading a line with Mary Sue or if you're just overthinking it. But if you keep an eye on it, I'm sure you'll manage to keep it from becoming so noticeable that it will be a distraction. You may not be walking that line at all. Perhaps someone who has read the story would have more insight.

[Drussius]

And a quick thought on the "Mary Sue" issue in general. I think it causes undue stress because any character who doesn't have some obvious and glaring flaw somewhere is labeled Mary Sue, which (to my knowledge) was originally used to label a character who was literally too good to be true, perfect in every way. Now any character who is cast as an expert of some kind seems to be given this label...

I've even had one of my friends label a Shopkeeper in a story I wrote years back as a Mary Sue. She was a shopkeeper! Her sole purpose in the story was to be the normal, non-violent, peaceful citizen that was the sister of one of the main characters. She had no major impact on the plot. She was just there for moments of normalcy in scenes set in the town, and to reassure her brother in darker moments that things would be okay... I didn't highlight her flaws because... She was a SHOPKEEPER, for crying out loud!

/rant

[Icyflare]

@drussius: I totally agree with you in that your situation. Your friend might have forgotten that a Mary Sue also tends to be a main character in a story with an unreasonable influence on everyone around her. I don't know if it really applies to side characters all that much.

dpMeggers, I can give you some feedback if you're willing to wait for me to read through your chapters. Shouldn't be more than an hour and a half, estimate.

Modifié par Icyflare, 20 juin 2012 - 11:59 .

[dpMeggers]

Icyflare wrote...

@drussius: I totally agree with you in that your situation. Your friend might have forgotten that a Mary Sue also tends to be a main character in a story with an unreasonable influence on everyone around her. I don't know if it really applies to side characters all that much.

dpMeggers, I can give you some feedback if you're willing to wait for me to read through your chapters. Should be more than an hour and a half, estimate.

I'd appreciate it. It's the coming chapter that I'm most worried about, but everything's sort of been building to that point.

[Icyflare]

Just finished reading Conversations. Tess doesn't really feel like a Mary Sue just yet, although the fact that she's apparently learning Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which I assume, threw me off. That specific martial art does stray into Mary Sue territory for me, especially since it's never explained how she was introduced to it, like maybe Tess lives around an area where that BJJ is prolific or something. There is a lot of attention on her, I feel, given her current role in the story.

Granted, it does partially explain why Tess is better at hand-to-hand than say Shepard or RJ, despite the fact that they're trained Alliance soldiers. To be honest, I felt that the story was becoming a little Tess-centric fairly early on, or at least McGowan family-centered. I don't mind the OCs, because I think they're interesting to read, but currently, the story feels like it's half-Shepard, half-McGowan family-based.

As to how to avoid it, just don't make Tess completely self-sufficient. Yes, she's a tech expert, but maybe there are still hardwares that she can't hack or hasn't learned about. She has grappling experience (I think), so she can excel in hand-to-hand, but don't let her be absurdly proficient with a firearm that she's just picked up. Avoid the noticeably obvious Mary Sue traits, and you should be fine. Don't always let her make the decisions that turns out for the best. If she's never made a mistake she regrets or turned out for the worse, I would think that would be sign of a Mary Sue.

[dpMeggers]

Icyflare wrote...

Just finished reading Conversations. Tess doesn't really feel like a Mary Sue just yet, although the fact that she's apparently learning Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which I assume, threw me off. That specific martial art does stray into Mary Sue territory for me, especially since it's never explained how she was introduced to it, like maybe Tess lives around an area where that BJJ is prolific or something. There is a lot of attention on her, I feel, given her current role in the story.

Granted, it does partially explain why Tess is better at hand-to-hand than say Shepard or RJ, despite the fact that they're trained Alliance soldiers. To be honest, I felt that the story was becoming a little Tess-centric fairly early on, or at least McGowan family-centered. I don't mind the OCs, because I think they're interesting to read, but currently, the story feels like it's half-Shepard, half-McGowan family-based.

As to how to avoid it, just don't make Tess completely self-sufficient. Yes, she's a tech expert, but maybe there are still hardwares that she can't hack or hasn't learned about. She has grappling experience (I think), so she can excel in hand-to-hand, but don't let her be absurdly proficient with a firearm that she's just picked up. Avoid the noticeably obvious Mary Sue traits, and you should be fine. Don't always let her make the decisions that turns out for the best. If she's never made a mistake she regrets or turned out for the worse, I would think that would be sign of a Mary Sue.

She got enrolled in BJJ as a kid because she had temper control issues  - she needed the discipline, so she has been training for something like 8 years at this point (it gets mentionned that she's into martial arts pretty early on). And I don't know that she's better than both of them at hand-to-hand so much as Shep attempting to be reassuring - probably should have made that clear. 

And she's not a hacker really, just a geek.

The fact that I'm trying to justify this almost makes her seem more Mary Sue doesn't it. Damn.

Do you mind if I PM you a question about what I sort of had planned next?

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Sialater wrote...

Use David Weber for a model for fic purposes. It's easier.

If only I could because it's very clear cut. But the ME universe is a riot of contradictions that I'm trying to follow as true / close as possible in fanfic.  What a paradox. Hence I now throw in the gauntlet and say Shepard is both marine and navy officer. Huzzah.  

[Icyflare]

dpMeggers wrote...

She got enrolled in BJJ as a kid because she had temper control issues  - she needed the discipline, so she has been training for something like 8 years at this point (it gets mentionned that she's into martial arts pretty early on). And I don't know that she's better than both of them at hand-to-hand so much as Shep attempting to be reassuring - probably should have made that clear. 

And she's not a hacker really, just a geek.

The fact that I'm trying to justify this almost makes her seem more Mary Sue doesn't it. Damn.

Do you mind if I PM you a question about what I sort of had planned next?

Understandable. I did pick up on the temper, but why BJJ? Why not Taekwondo, Karate, Kung fu, Judo, Kickboxing, Tai Chi, or countless other martial arts? Why not sports? Why not some particular activitiy that can help channel herself, like drawing, painting, sculpting, or writing? Working hard at any hobby you like requires discipline of a sort. BJJ is very, very specific, and I have to think you had a purpose in mind when you chose it.

Well, I thought Shepard might have said that to be reassuring, but yes, at the same time, it could also be interpreted as him being serious. Your incorporation of OCs is pretty smooth, I think, and not particularly jarring, and I like how you switch up narrative structures every now and then (e.g. emails). Feel free to PM me. My ff account is ShadowBlazer if you prefer to do it that way. As a warning, I do have a tendency to be honest to the point of bluntness, and that comes out more so when I'm feeling bad/tired.

Modifié par Icyflare, 21 juin 2012 - 02:24 .

[Caligno]

FluffyWalrus: 10k characters was not anywhere near what I needed for that. I hope that I'm not suggesting to change your style too much.