9962 réponses à ce sujet

[dpMeggers]

Drussius wrote...

*snip*
 I'm not sure of the pubic opinion of rewrites on aready-published material

Neither am I. It's why I asked. 

[noxiuniversitas1]

I'm not familiar with BJJ (so Meggers, I hope what I say is somewhat constructive) but I've done quite a bit of karate and dabbled a bit in judo for a couple of years when I was younger. Judo's actually a lot less wrestly-esque than people think. You need quite a bit of speed, and while strength is useful to have, being able to use pivots and agility to your advantage are much more important, IMO. Being short is a double-edged sword - on the one hand, your centre of gravity is lower, so you're harder to throw. On the other hand, it's harder for you to get the relevant body parts (hips, shoulders, calves) into correct positions to pivot your opponent.

And... even though I did karate for much longer than I did judo, in retrospect I think judo's far more practical in the real world than karate. In the end I stuck with karate because it was better aerobic exercise, not because it was more practical. And most people who learn from more than one school combine the two anyway, unless in competition.

I probably wouldn't re-write the choice of martial arts unless you see it as a major issue. You could always approach it from a different perspective - everyone utilises what they learn in a different way.

PS: I was going on Sialater's comment that BJJ is similar to judo.. if it's not, sorry!

[Sialater]

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

I'm not familiar with BJJ (so Meggers, I hope what I say is somewhat constructive) but I've done quite a bit of karate and dabbled a bit in judo for a couple of years when I was younger. Judo's actually a lot less wrestly-esque than people think. You need quite a bit of speed, and while strength is useful to have, being able to use pivots and agility to your advantage are much more important, IMO. Being short is a double-edged sword - on the one hand, your centre of gravity is lower, so you're harder to throw. On the other hand, it's harder for you to get the relevant body parts (hips, shoulders, calves) into correct positions to pivot your opponent.

And... even though I did karate for much longer than I did judo, in retrospect I think judo's far more practical in the real world than karate. In the end I stuck with karate because it was better aerobic exercise, not because it was more practical. And most people who learn from more than one school combine the two anyway, unless in competition.

I probably wouldn't re-write the choice of martial arts unless you see it as a major issue. You could always approach it from a different perspective - everyone utilises what they learn in a different way.

PS: I was going on Sialater's comment that BJJ is similar to judo.. if it's not, sorry!

Sorry, It's similar in the way that Earth and Mars are similar.  As in vaguely similar principles.  I've studied Judo, my husband studied Jiujitsu.  They're both close-in fighting styles that involve the immobilization of your opponent, not the attrition via physical punishment styles like Karate and Taekwondo rely on.

I don't think either would be useful against, say... husks. 

Modifié par Sialater, 21 juin 2012 - 06:41 .

[PMC65]

dpMeggers wrote...

The phrase "writing is rewriting" has come up in here, so question: How do you feel about re-writes being put in to already published works? Do you do it yourself? Would you consider doing it and if so, why?

After ME3 came out I went back and updated A Thessian's Whisper with another 20k of words ... For those that read it prior the heart of the story never changed so the changes are really for me, the characters and future readers. As to why I did it ... there were things that were pending certain reveals like who Benezia's choice of a mate in regards to Liara and items that I'd debated and decided why not.

There is a saying about films that also could be applied to stories ... "Films aren't completed but abandoned." You will always see area of improvements, needs to tweak ... only you know when it is time to finally stop returning to the field. 

 

[Icyflare]

BJJ, as far as I know, has a lot of grappling techniques, so for the most part, it's like ground-wrestling. It's quite useful to combine techniques from multiple martial arts into your own particular fighting style, especially if you are mixing together martial arts that supplement each other's weaknesses (e.g. a grappling style and a striking style like Judo and Karate).

The objection behind the BJJ idea was that it seemed to come out of nowhere. It's not necessarily to change it, but it would be preferable to explain how it came about. In my area, BJJ isn't the most popular martial arts around, so it felt like something out of left field for me.

As for rewriting, in general, I would avoid rewriting major plot points and passages in my writing unless they're absolutely glaring. That's just to help me plan and edit better before submission. Minor grammatical and spelling things are fine to me to rewrite after the fact.

[dpMeggers]

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

I probably wouldn't re-write the choice of martial arts unless you see it as a major issue. You could always approach it from a different perspective - everyone utilises what they learn in a different way.

As I've never actually mentionned her using it, it's sort of a non-issue for me to change it. And given that it's now starting to annoy me... I'll wind up changing a grand total of 3 words and the end result is still "Tess can fight"

Sialater wrote... 
Sorry, It's similar in the way that Earth and Mars are similar.  As in vaguely similar principles.  I've studied Judo, my husband studied Jiujitsu.  They're both close-in fighting styles that involve the immobilization of your opponent, not the attrition via physical punishment styles like Karate and Taekwondo rely on.

I don't think either would be useful against, say... husks. 

Actually if you're armed: toss charging husk to ground, shoot in face might not be a bad strategy vs. Punch/kick husk repeatedly.

But really, guns are useful against husks. Alternatively = choke points lined with mines/bombs/grenades. Tada! Huskburger.

[Icyflare]

Edit: Ignore this post. My computer was just being stupid, and I couldn't see my earlier one.

That's interesting perspective to put it at. Movies aren't finished but abandoned. It's sad to think of your completed stories as "abandoned" though.

Modifié par Icyflare, 21 juin 2012 - 07:01 .

[noxiuniversitas1]

PMC65 wrote...

There is a saying about films that also could be applied to stories ... "Films aren't completed but abandoned." You will always see area of improvements, needs to tweak ... only you know when it is time to finally stop returning to the field. 

Pretty inspired stuff, PMC.

[Drussius]

BJJ is currently popular mostly due to the MMA sports, like strikeforce and UFC. It is very much about grappling, immobilization and submission. I myself took Tae Kwon Do for a number of years (in my childhood, which was an eternity ago). And while I personally feel that the martial arts that were popular in my childhood, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and the like, are far less useful by today's standards. They tend to include lots of kicks, spins and aerial maneuvers, and these are things that are absolutely useless once a BJJ or Judo practitioner throws you to the ground, traps you in a guillotine choke, and the lack of blood flow to the brain sends you to dreamland.

I admit I am no expert on modern fighting, but having followed a little bit of the UFC and Strikeforce, and seen a few references on other documentaries (about battling addiction, inspirational stories of life changes and the like) that not many people seem to study a specific martial art anymore. Everyone now talks about MMA (mixed martial arts, for anyone not familiar with the term), where lots of different styles are blended together for an all-around knowledge of fighting that, to me, seems like a much more practical approach.

I'd imagine that by 2186 (that's off the top of my head, hope that's the right year for ME), individual martial arts would be a thing of the past. Our culture would probably have taken the best attributes of many different styles and adopted a more all-inclusive fighting style. It seems to be the way even our current world is trending.

This is all just my opinion, mind you.

[Icyflare]

Drussius wrote...

BJJ is currently popular mostly due to the MMA sports, like strikeforce and UFC. It is very much about grappling, immobilization and submission. I myself took Tae Kwon Do for a number of years (in my childhood, which was an eternity ago). And while I personally feel that the martial arts that were popular in my childhood, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and the like, are far less useful by today's standards. They tend to include lots of kicks, spins and aerial maneuvers, and these are things that are absolutely useless once a BJJ or Judo practitioner throws you to the ground, traps you in a guillotine choke, and the lack of blood flow to the brain sends you to dreamland.

I admit I am no expert on modern fighting, but having followed a little bit of the UFC and Strikeforce, and seen a few references on other documentaries (about battling addiction, inspirational stories of life changes and the like) that not many people seem to study a specific martial art anymore. Everyone now talks about MMA (mixed martial arts, for anyone not familiar with the term), where lots of different styles are blended together for an all-around knowledge of fighting that, to me, seems like a much more practical approach.

I'd imagine that by 2186 (that's off the top of my head, hope that's the right year for ME), individual martial arts would be a thing of the past. Our culture would probably have taken the best attributes of many different styles and adopted a more all-inclusive fighting style. It seems to be the way even our current world is trending.

This is all just my opinion, mind you.

I was thinking something along those lines too. Martial arts would probably evolve in the future so that they only resemble what we have now. Some MMA dojos (dojins? Not sure) require that you know at least one striking martial arts and one grappling one, so that you are familiar with the rudimentary basics. Also, the training for MMA is brutal. Like they would make you do 20 wall push-ups, 20 regular ones, 20 sit-ups, and then repeat for 20 sets. For a warm-up.

Most of my martial arts instructors complain about this phenomenon, where students no longer have the amount of time to spend studying martial arts like the instructors had in their time. My old Sifu told stories of how he would study kung fu eight hours a day for six days a week for 20 years until he was finally recognized as a master. Most people now don't have this kind of time to devote to practicing the style, and that may carry into the future. Styles, techniques, ways of training will be altered and changed accordingly to the amount of time people have on average to study it, and to what might be useful/practical in future combat situations.

Modifié par Icyflare, 21 juin 2012 - 07:13 .

[Drussius]

Mostly off-topic, but the one of the funniest things I ever saw was back when I was training in Tae Kwon Do. There was a kid in my class that was bragging in school about how he was so good at Tae Kwon Do, that he could beat anyone in a fight, that he thought it was stupid that girls could take Tae Kwon Do because girls couldn't fight, etc. My neighbor and best friend Tammy was getting mad at him because he was being extremely rude... She said she could beat him easy, and he was dumb enough to rise to the bait. He tried one roundhouse kick, which she calmly caught and then kicked him in the groin. I don't think I ever laughed so hard in my life.

[lillitheris]

You should also factor in defensive capabilities for martial arts, in the event that they’re actually meant to be used rather than just for purposes of a hobby; highly protective armor is very light, kinetic shields are very effective and could conceivably be set to deflect energy, which would be problematic even for grapplers… Another thing would be weightless combat, or more generally any different gravity.

Essentially anything focusing on hits and kicks would be pretty useless. Sweeps might work, and grappling is a question mark — I guess you can make up your own rules for that.

[fluffywalrus]

I personally had no problem with Tess taking up BJJ, despite the fact that it's the future, and something more efficient had likely developed by then. It's merely an efficient martial art that is useful for smaller individuals taking on larger ones (of course, so are others, but BJJ is fairly practical). Made perfect sense, to me, for Tess to take something like it.

[lillitheris]

fluffywalrus wrote...

I personally had no problem with Tess taking up BJJ, despite the fact that it's the future, and something more efficient had likely developed by then. It's merely an efficient martial art that is useful for smaller individuals taking on larger ones (of course, so are others, but BJJ is fairly practical). Made perfect sense, to me, for Tess to take something like it.

I’d sort of agree — especially for the self-discipline angle.

Here’s an insta-de-Mary-Sue-ificator: have her learn BJJ, but make it pretty much inefficient in terms of actual combat (outside of few specialized situations like completely unarmed/unarmored).

Modifié par lillitheris, 21 juin 2012 - 07:39 .

[Sialater]

Icyflare wrote...

Drussius wrote...

BJJ is currently popular mostly due to the MMA sports, like strikeforce and UFC. It is very much about grappling, immobilization and submission. I myself took Tae Kwon Do for a number of years (in my childhood, which was an eternity ago). And while I personally feel that the martial arts that were popular in my childhood, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and the like, are far less useful by today's standards. They tend to include lots of kicks, spins and aerial maneuvers, and these are things that are absolutely useless once a BJJ or Judo practitioner throws you to the ground, traps you in a guillotine choke, and the lack of blood flow to the brain sends you to dreamland.

I admit I am no expert on modern fighting, but having followed a little bit of the UFC and Strikeforce, and seen a few references on other documentaries (about battling addiction, inspirational stories of life changes and the like) that not many people seem to study a specific martial art anymore. Everyone now talks about MMA (mixed martial arts, for anyone not familiar with the term), where lots of different styles are blended together for an all-around knowledge of fighting that, to me, seems like a much more practical approach.

I'd imagine that by 2186 (that's off the top of my head, hope that's the right year for ME), individual martial arts would be a thing of the past. Our culture would probably have taken the best attributes of many different styles and adopted a more all-inclusive fighting style. It seems to be the way even our current world is trending.

This is all just my opinion, mind you.

I was thinking something along those lines too. Martial arts would probably evolve in the future so that they only resemble what we have now. Some MMA dojos (dojins? Not sure) require that you know at least one striking martial arts and one grappling one, so that you are familiar with the rudimentary basics. Also, the training for MMA is brutal. Like they would make you do 20 wall push-ups, 20 regular ones, 20 sit-ups, and then repeat for 20 sets. For a warm-up.

Most of my martial arts instructors complain about this phenomenon, where students no longer have the amount of time to spend studying martial arts like the instructors had in their time. My old Sifu told stories of how he would study kung fu eight hours a day for six days a week for 20 years until he was finally recognized as a master. Most people now don't have this kind of time to devote to practicing the style, and that may carry into the future. Styles, techniques, ways of training will be altered and changed accordingly to the amount of time people have on average to study it, and to what might be useful/practical in future combat situations.

That's the idea I went into with Meghan.  She learned one enough for a black belt, then started branching out.  She started, like DP's (?) character, in the Academy to channel her rage that no longer had an outlet since she wasn't in a gang any more.  

Add in the fact that as an N7, Shepard's also going to start learning the specific weak points of an alien species and her style will morph monumentally.  A turian, a krogan, a salarian... not going to have the same pressure points as a human.

Modifié par Sialater, 21 juin 2012 - 07:45 .

[Drussius]

Sialater wrote...

Add in the fact that as an N7, Shepard's also going to start learning the specific weak points of an alien species and her style will morph monumentally.  A turian, a krogan, a salarian... not going to have the same pressure points as a human.

I would LOVE to see exactly how a Knee Bar or something similar would go if used on a Salarian. Since they're supposed to be very flexible and cartilaginous, I'd think most of the BJJ submissions that work on humans would be useless on a Salarian. We couldn't pull back far enough to put any significant pressure on a much more flexible race (Edit: If you've seen how a Knee Bar or an Arm Bar works on us, you know what I mean). Still useful for immobilizing, but I have a hard time seeing a Salarian tap out to anything that wasn't directly cutting off their ability to breathe/cutting off blood flow to the brain.

Modifié par Drussius, 21 juin 2012 - 07:55 .

[dpMeggers]

Drussius wrote...

Mostly off-topic, but the one of the funniest things I ever saw was back when I was training in Tae Kwon Do. There was a kid in my class that was bragging in school about how he was so good at Tae Kwon Do, that he could beat anyone in a fight, that he thought it was stupid that girls could take Tae Kwon Do because girls couldn't fight, etc. My neighbor and best friend Tammy was getting mad at him because he was being extremely rude... She said she could beat him easy, and he was dumb enough to rise to the bait. He tried one roundhouse kick, which she calmly caught and then kicked him in the groin. I don't think I ever laughed so hard in my life.

Growing up I had a friend who was fairly heavily into Tae Kwon Do and I seem to remember when she talked about the attitude you were meant to develop the gist of it was 'you're supposed to be humble about it.' I think your male friend there was doing it wrong...

lillitheris wrote...
You should also factor in defensive capabilities for martial arts, in the event that they’re actually meant to be used rather than just for purposes of a hobby; highly protective armor is very light, kinetic shields are very effective and could conceivably be set to deflect energy, which would be problematic even for grapplers… Another thing would be weightless combat, or more generally any different gravity.

Essentially anything focusing on hits and kicks would be pretty useless. Sweeps might work, and grappling is a question mark — I guess you can make up your own rules for that. 

Regarding the bolded: I vaguely remember Kai Leng knifing someone in the books because he got inside their shields. Presumably grappling would offer the same advantage. Get inside shield, take person down.

[Sialater]

Drussius wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Add in the fact that as an N7, Shepard's also going to start learning the specific weak points of an alien species and her style will morph monumentally.  A turian, a krogan, a salarian... not going to have the same pressure points as a human.

I would LOVE to see exactly how a Knee Bar or something similar would go if used on a Salarian. Since they're supposed to be very flexible and cartilaginous, I'd think most of the BJJ submissions that work on humans would be useless on a Salarian. We couldn't pull back far enough to put any significant pressure on a much more flexible race (Edit: If you've seen how a Knee Bar or an Arm Bar works on us, you know what I mean). Still useful for immobilizing, but I have a hard time seeing a Salarian tap out to anything that wasn't directly cutting off their ability to breathe/cutting off blood flow to the brain.

Heck, can you even arm bar a krogan considering how short their limbs are?  

[dpMeggers]

Drussius wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Add in the fact that as an N7, Shepard's also going to start learning the specific weak points of an alien species and her style will morph monumentally.  A turian, a krogan, a salarian... not going to have the same pressure points as a human.

I would LOVE to see exactly how a Knee Bar or something similar would go if used on a Salarian. Since they're supposed to be very flexible and cartilaginous, I'd think most of the BJJ submissions that work on humans would be useless on a Salarian. We couldn't pull back far enough to put any significant pressure on a much more flexible race (Edit: If you've seen how a Knee Bar or an Arm Bar works on us, you know what I mean). Still useful for immobilizing, but I have a hard time seeing a Salarian tap out to anything that wasn't directly cutting off their ability to breathe/cutting off blood flow to the brain.

Well I just read the Thane Krios Guide to Assassinations and apparently there is no good way to assassinate a Salarian. Which is disappointing. Although it does reveal weaknesses for a few other species. Apparently everything is vulnerable to a neck snap. Or a bomb. 

[Icyflare]

This topic reminds me of one of Thane's files from the Shadowbroker's dossier where it talks about his preferred method of assassinating different species. You could always borrow some inspiration there. Salarians are probably just easier to kill with bullets than anything else.

Edit: WELP, got one in late again. One of these days....

Modifié par Icyflare, 21 juin 2012 - 08:06 .

[Drussius]

dpMeggers wrote...

Drussius wrote...

Mostly off-topic, but the one of the funniest things I ever saw was back when I was training in Tae Kwon Do. There was a kid in my class that was bragging in school about how he was so good at Tae Kwon Do, that he could beat anyone in a fight, that he thought it was stupid that girls could take Tae Kwon Do because girls couldn't fight, etc. My neighbor and best friend Tammy was getting mad at him because he was being extremely rude... She said she could beat him easy, and he was dumb enough to rise to the bait. He tried one roundhouse kick, which she calmly caught and then kicked him in the groin. I don't think I ever laughed so hard in my life.

Growing up I had a friend who was fairly heavily into Tae Kwon Do and I seem to remember when she talked about the attitude you were meant to develop the gist of it was 'you're supposed to be humble about it.' I think your male friend there was doing it wrong...

Male classmate. Certainly not a friend. I didn't like him at all. And yes, he did just about everything wrong when it came to Tae Kwon Do. He was more like the bully who wanted to use it just to beat people up, whereas I took it because I thought it looked cool and it was fun. I had excellent technique (at least, according to the instructors) but I had absolutely no power behind any of my strikes. They looked pretty. Wouldn't have done damage to wet tissue paper.

[Drussius]

dpMeggers wrote...

Drussius wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Add in the fact that as an N7, Shepard's also going to start learning the specific weak points of an alien species and her style will morph monumentally.  A turian, a krogan, a salarian... not going to have the same pressure points as a human.

I would LOVE to see exactly how a Knee Bar or something similar would go if used on a Salarian. Since they're supposed to be very flexible and cartilaginous, I'd think most of the BJJ submissions that work on humans would be useless on a Salarian. We couldn't pull back far enough to put any significant pressure on a much more flexible race (Edit: If you've seen how a Knee Bar or an Arm Bar works on us, you know what I mean). Still useful for immobilizing, but I have a hard time seeing a Salarian tap out to anything that wasn't directly cutting off their ability to breathe/cutting off blood flow to the brain.

Well I just read the Thane Krios Guide to Assassinations and apparently there is no good way to assassinate a Salarian. Which is disappointing. Although it does reveal weaknesses for a few other species. Apparently everything is vulnerable to a neck snap. Or a bomb. 

A running, leaping, spinning neck snap, in the case of Krogan.

Edit: Did his methods include pulling the helmet off of a Quarian and then sneezing on them?

...

That was a joke.

Modifié par Drussius, 21 juin 2012 - 08:07 .

[Sialater]

Drussius wrote...

dpMeggers wrote...

Drussius wrote...

Mostly off-topic, but the one of the funniest things I ever saw was back when I was training in Tae Kwon Do. There was a kid in my class that was bragging in school about how he was so good at Tae Kwon Do, that he could beat anyone in a fight, that he thought it was stupid that girls could take Tae Kwon Do because girls couldn't fight, etc. My neighbor and best friend Tammy was getting mad at him because he was being extremely rude... She said she could beat him easy, and he was dumb enough to rise to the bait. He tried one roundhouse kick, which she calmly caught and then kicked him in the groin. I don't think I ever laughed so hard in my life.

Growing up I had a friend who was fairly heavily into Tae Kwon Do and I seem to remember when she talked about the attitude you were meant to develop the gist of it was 'you're supposed to be humble about it.' I think your male friend there was doing it wrong...

Male classmate. Certainly not a friend. I didn't like him at all. And yes, he did just about everything wrong when it came to Tae Kwon Do. He was more like the bully who wanted to use it just to beat people up, whereas I took it because I thought it looked cool and it was fun. I had excellent technique (at least, according to the instructors) but I had absolutely no power behind any of my strikes. They looked pretty. Wouldn't have done damage to wet tissue paper.

 Sounds like me in Judo.

[dpMeggers]

Drussius wrote...

dpMeggers wrote...

Drussius wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Add in the fact that as an N7, Shepard's also going to start learning the specific weak points of an alien species and her style will morph monumentally.  A turian, a krogan, a salarian... not going to have the same pressure points as a human.

I would LOVE to see exactly how a Knee Bar or something similar would go if used on a Salarian. Since they're supposed to be very flexible and cartilaginous, I'd think most of the BJJ submissions that work on humans would be useless on a Salarian. We couldn't pull back far enough to put any significant pressure on a much more flexible race (Edit: If you've seen how a Knee Bar or an Arm Bar works on us, you know what I mean). Still useful for immobilizing, but I have a hard time seeing a Salarian tap out to anything that wasn't directly cutting off their ability to breathe/cutting off blood flow to the brain.

Well I just read the Thane Krios Guide to Assassinations and apparently there is no good way to assassinate a Salarian. Which is disappointing. Although it does reveal weaknesses for a few other species. Apparently everything is vulnerable to a neck snap. Or a bomb. 

A running, leaping, spinning neck snap, in the case of Krogan.

Edit: Did his methods include pulling the helmet off of a Quarian and then sneezing on them?

...

That was a joke.

You joke but ... lets just say Garrus favours Ironic Deaths

[Icyflare]

But if you have solid technique, there should be some sort of power there, given that you're using your body correctly to land the blow...