9962 réponses à ce sujet

[Drussius]

hot_heart wrote...

Just realised that I'm still writing a bit like I'm doing scripts.

Most of my chapters are a single 'scene', I kinda rush into writing them, focusing on dialogue first. Add in the more essential bits of info as I go, then go over later and add in more detail and nuance.

It is a lengthy process.

I'll probably never change my ways but I guess I might as well ask: What way works best for you guys?

I don't really preconceptualize much other than my overall plot. Then I just fill in scenes as I feel are needed until I have a spot where I feel I could stop the Chapter logically. On rare occasions I have a clearer idea of where the chapter will start and end, but most of my writing is done on the fly. And then everything gets reread at least twice, so that I can fix grammatical errors and add details or subtract unneeded elaboration. And even after two rereads, there will probably still be 8-10 spelling errors (usually involving wrong words that get through the spell checker... the instead of he, for example)

Of course, I have no idea how to write a script, so that might be a better way to do it, but I have to go with what I'm used to.

[Drussius]

hot_heart wrote...

Not to sound condescending, Drussius, but have you considered starting your story 'in medias res'?

Maybe a bit late now, but you can begin with some more gripping stuff/events to create intrigue and then build up to that (and then go past it obviously).

It was something I considered, starting with something from near the end of the story. But I wasn't sure it would really work. I had considered writing the entire story before publishing so that I could perhaps pick out a good scene and transplant it to the beginning for a more exciting start. But I think my impatience for feedback is too strong for that. I'll be lucky if I can actually wait until I have 4 chapters before publishing the first, like I wanted.

Still, it's a work in progress, so I'm not ruling the idea out yet.

Edit: As it is currently laid out, my first chapter ends with a short action sequence of sorts, with the rest of it used to introduce various characters.

Modifié par Drussius, 23 juin 2012 - 09:48 .

[hot_heart]

Drussius wrote...
Of course, I have no idea how to write a script, so that might be a better way to do it, but I have to go with
what I'm used to.

I dunno. Scripts tend to favour dialogue and action over description. There aren't a million miles between the
two, but it is definitely a different approach.

It has influenced my own style, but I guess I kinda like having that unique quality...

Drussius wrote...
But I think my impatience for feedback is too strong for that.

Show us! Showusshowusshowus!

Drussius wrote...
Edit: As it is currently laid out, my first
chapter ends with a short action sequence of sorts, with the rest of it
used to introduce various characters.

I don't think it's so much that you need action sequences, but you need some kind of hook to get people interested. The action may contain that though. I don't know.

Modifié par hot_heart, 23 juin 2012 - 09:52 .

[Drussius]

Well, I wasn't trying to suggest that it needs action to draw people in. Some of my favorite stories and books are dramas with little to no action at all. Good stories need good characters. But I have been thinking exactly what you are suggesting: that there has to be a good hook to draw people in and catch their interest. What I may do is keep the chapter as is, and when I publish it, I'll ask some people what they think, and then provide a scene from later in the story and see if the people who read it think it would be better with that scene placed at the very beginning as a hook to draw readers in a bit.

My favorite story I ever wrote was one where I started with the end as the opening scene, and then went back and detailed everything that led up to it. It felt a little cliched (lots of movies I've seen start with a big climax and then fade out and do the "two weeks earlier..." thing), but it was still a story I was very happy with at the end.

[Icyflare]

Drussius wrote...

Well, I wasn't trying to suggest that it needs action to draw people in. Some of my favorite stories and books are dramas with little to no action at all. Good stories need good characters. But I have been thinking exactly what you are suggesting: that there has to be a good hook to draw people in and catch their interest. What I may do is keep the chapter as is, and when I publish it, I'll ask some people what they think, and then provide a scene from later in the story and see if the people who read it think it would be better with that scene placed at the very beginning as a hook to draw readers in a bit.

My favorite story I ever wrote was one where I started with the end as the opening scene, and then went back and detailed everything that led up to it. It felt a little cliched (lots of movies I've seen start with a big climax and then fade out and do the "two weeks earlier..." thing), but it was still a story I was very happy with at the end.

I've always wanted to do something like that, but I couldn't figure out the pacing or how to actually implement the scenes. Stories like that are like the Iliad or the Odyssey. You know how it ends, but you want to know how it got there. I just have difficulty writing stories if I have a set end goal in mind.

[Drussius]

^ I actually rearranged it at the end. Since I wasn't publishing it online bit by bit or anything, I had the freedom to go back and change the beginning when it was all done. I decided that it would be a much more dramatic story overall if I started with the chaos that the ending became over the course of writing it, and I transplanted the climax to the very beginning. It wasn't that I had the ending specifically in mind at the beginning. I just liked the feel of the end and thought it would make an awesome start.

[noxiuniversitas1]

Icyflare wrote...

I've always wanted to do something like that, but I couldn't figure out the pacing or how to actually implement the scenes. Stories like that are like the Iliad or the Odyssey. You know how it ends, but you want to know how it got there. I just have difficulty writing stories if I have a set end goal in mind.

Yeah it's a good premise, but you'd probably need the entire story written before you could rearrange it properly.

And you have 4 hours to unleash your one-shot *rubs hands*





(kidding... take your time, obviously)

Edit: ahh... hadn't seen Drussius' post above.

Modifié par noxiuniversitas1, 23 juin 2012 - 10:45 .

[Icyflare]

^Haha. Oh god, you're keeping count. Nearly done. Just need to think of a title and fix some lines, and it's good(ish).

Figuring out your hook is hard sometimes. Personally, I don't like pages of rolling expositions at the beginning, so I prefer stories where it starts with the characters in the middle of a conflict or about to get into one. There are exceptions to everything though. If exposition is disguised really well, it could be interesting (e.g. worked in as gossip, which also helps establishes characters and settings. Two birds with one stone)

I do plan to write something like that where the ending is known first, although I also want to complement it with flashbacks and foreshadowing. Dramas/mysteries would probably benefit a lot from this sort of narrative structure.

[noxiuniversitas1]

Icyflare wrote...

^Haha. Oh god, you're keeping count. Nearly done. Just need to think of a title and fix some lines, and it's good(ish).

You know, star child doesn't like the teasers... it's

Anyway it's bed time - so it'll have to wait till tomorrow

[Icyflare]

Have a good sleep. Damn oneshot is finally up for you to read in the morning. Made it within 24 hours! 

Here is it in case for some strange reason, the link at the bottom of my signature doesn't work.

Nothing Gold Can Stay

I decided just to stick with my original name, because, honestly, the title kept repeating in my mind until I wrote it down =/

Modifié par Icyflare, 24 juin 2012 - 01:22 .

[Drussius]

Been considering the pacing of my first two chapters. And I am actually strongly considering taking a scene I've had in my head since I first started writing - one that really marks the end of the relative normalcy of the early chapters and the start of the conflict in the later chapters - and breaking it into little pieces, essentially starting each new scene of the early chapters with a small snippet of a conflict from later in the story. I think it might work as a decent hook for the early chapters and help pick up the pacing a bit. If I can figure out the best way to make it clear to the reader that the little bits of conflict are from a future event and the rest is taking place beforehand... hadn't really thought that part through. Not sure I want to do a "Over Planet X, now..." leadin for each snippet of the conflict, followed by a "Colony Y, three weeks ago..." when I move to the scene itself.

However, would it seem odd then that the later chapters suddenly lose these little snippets? After the scene in question was finished and the story moved past it? I'm not sure about changing the style of the story at the midpoint, moving from a "now..." "three weeks ago" back and forth to just "now..." on an ongoing basis.

Modifié par Drussius, 24 juin 2012 - 02:49 .

[fluffywalrus]

Drussius wrote...

Been considering the pacing of my first two chapters. And I am actually strongly considering taking a scene I've had in my head since I first started writing - one that really marks the end of the relative normalcy of the early chapters and the start of the conflict in the later chapters - and breaking it into little pieces, essentially starting each new scene of the early chapters with a small snippet of a conflict from later in the story. I think it might work as a decent hook for the early chapters and help pick up the pacing a bit. If I can figure out the best way to make it clear to the reader that the little bits of conflict are from a future event and the rest is taking place beforehand... hadn't really thought that part through. Not sure I want to do a "Over Planet X, now..." leadin for each snippet of the conflict, followed by a "Colony Y, three weeks ago..." when I move to the scene itself.

However, would it seem odd then that the later chapters suddenly lose these little snippets? After the scene in question was finished and the story moved past it? I'm not sure about changing the style of the story at the midpoint, moving from a "now..." "three weeks ago" back and forth to just "now..." on an ongoing basis.

I think it could work. The time difference would narrow as the story progressed, and eventually you'd hit a point where things would pick up where the last snippet left off. It would naturally come to a head, and I don't think it would change the style of the fic too much. I think the important part would be to make the conflict that you're leaving snippets to a major one, so that when IT ends, after you've caught up, it won't seem odd for there to be a lull afterward, and chances are the reader won't liss the snippets if the conflict is concluded even decently.

[Drussius]

I don't want to include spoilers just so I don't ruin anything for anyone who actually wants to read my silly fic eventually. But yes, the scene I'm thinking of is essentially where the various characters are all in the same place for the first time, and marks the point where they get drawn into events that they really can't avoid.

You don't think that something along the lines I suggested would come off as cheesy? Starting each snippet or scene with a one-line place/time designator similar to what I suggested? "Planet X, now..." and "Place Y, one week earlier..."

[fluffywalrus]

Drussius wrote...

I don't want to include spoilers just so I don't ruin anything for anyone who actually wants to read my silly fic eventually. But yes, the scene I'm thinking of is essentially where the various characters are all in the same place for the first time, and marks the point where they get drawn into events that they really can't avoid.

You don't think that something along the lines I suggested would come off as cheesy? Starting each snippet or scene with a one-line place/time designator similar to what I suggested? "Planet X, now..." and "Place Y, one week earlier..."

I think that it could help develop the characters a bit. Cheesy? I have no idea. I'm kind of immune to that stuff unless it's horrendously written.

But I think that the odd connection between the past and the present scenes could work wonders at helping the reader get to know the characters.

[Drussius]

fluffywalrus wrote...

I think that it could help develop the characters a bit. Cheesy? I have no idea. I'm kind of immune to that stuff unless it's horrendously written.

But I think that the odd connection between the past and the present scenes could work wonders at helping the reader get to know the characters.

I HOPE my writing won't be seen as horrendous!

But yes, I agree about the staggering of scenes helping. It's the first idea I've had that has really struck me as a good fix for the pacing issues I've been trying to tidy up since I first wrote chapter one. I just can't think of a clear and non-confusing way to achieve the jumps from past to present without using the format I suggested. If I don't use a "two weeks ago/now" type of designator, I think it would probably be confusing to read. I suppose I'll have to just do it and hope not too many readers go "God, that 'three weeks ago' line gets old."

[fluffywalrus]

Drussius wrote...

fluffywalrus wrote...

I think that it could help develop the characters a bit. Cheesy? I have no idea. I'm kind of immune to that stuff unless it's horrendously written.

But I think that the odd connection between the past and the present scenes could work wonders at helping the reader get to know the characters.

I HOPE my writing won't be seen as horrendous!

But yes, I agree about the staggering of scenes helping. It's the first idea I've had that has really struck me as a good fix for the pacing issues I've been trying to tidy up since I first wrote chapter one. I just can't think of a clear and non-confusing way to achieve the jumps from past to present without using the format I suggested. If I don't use a "two weeks ago/now" type of designator, I think it would probably be confusing to read. I suppose I'll have to just do it and hope not too many readers go "God, that 'three weeks ago' line gets old."

I doubt your writing would be horrendous if you're actually putting thought into it. I mean, I'm thinking of examples like (and I'm writing these myself as an attemtp to write as poorly as possible)

"Jeff was a bad dude. He had a claymore shotgun on his hip and a cigarette in his mouth and he said 'Bring it' as four Batarians charged at him a few metres away. He shot his gun loudly and it went through two Batarians, killing them, and the other two kept running at him. So he shot them too and they bled to death. Jeff dropped his cigarette to the ground and used his foot to grind it in a batarians face as he remembered Mindoir and Torfan and Elysium and how so many people died at the hands of Batarians and it made him so angry that his brow furrowed as he frowned. 'Don't mess with bad dudes like me, Batarians. Or you'll be in for it' Jeff said menacingly as he walked away down the road toward the Alliance base two kilometers away where Captain Anderson was waiting for him. "

Something like that. I would hope your writing is not anywhere as bad as that, because it took effort to write that poorly.

I think that so long as your writing skills are a decent measure above that, you'll be fine

[Drussius]

fluffywalrus wrote...

I doubt your writing would be horrendous if you're actually putting thought into it. I mean, I'm thinking of examples like (and I'm writing these myself as an attemtp to write as poorly as possible)

"Jeff was a bad dude. He had a claymore shotgun on his hip and a cigarette in his mouth and he said 'Bring it' as four Batarians charged at him a few metres away. He shot his gun loudly and it went through two Batarians, killing them, and the other two kept running at him. So he shot them too and they bled to death. Jeff dropped his cigarette to the ground and used his foot to grind it in a batarians face as he remembered Mindoir and Torfan and Elysium and how so many people died at the hands of Batarians and it made him so angry that his brow furrowed as he frowned. 'Don't mess with bad dudes like me, Batarians. Or you'll be in for it' Jeff said menacingly as he walked away down the road toward the Alliance base two kilometers away where Captain Anderson was waiting for him. "

Something like that. I would hope your writing is not anywhere as bad as that, because it took effort to write that poorly.

I think that so long as your writing skills are a decent measure above that, you'll be fine

How did you get that excerpt from my second chapter?

...

That was a joke.

[Icyflare]

fluffywalrus wrote...

I doubt your writing would be horrendous if you're actually putting thought into it. I mean, I'm thinking of examples like (and I'm writing these myself as an attemtp to write as poorly as possible)

"Jeff was a bad dude. He had a claymore shotgun on his hip and a cigarette in his mouth and he said 'Bring it' as four Batarians charged at him a few metres away. He shot his gun loudly and it went through two Batarians, killing them, and the other two kept running at him. So he shot them too and they bled to death. Jeff dropped his cigarette to the ground and used his foot to grind it in a batarians face as he remembered Mindoir and Torfan and Elysium and how so many people died at the hands of Batarians and it made him so angry that his brow furrowed as he frowned. 'Don't mess with bad dudes like me, Batarians. Or you'll be in for it' Jeff said menacingly as he walked away down the road toward the Alliance base two kilometers away where Captain Anderson was waiting for him. "

Something like that. I would hope your writing is not anywhere as bad as that, because it took effort to write that poorly.

I think that so long as your writing skills are a decent measure above that, you'll be fine

That's actually not too bad. I've seen other fanfics at that level. Maybe it's just a testament to your writing that you think that's "bad".

Bad, for me, would probably be something like:

"Craigford 'Shep-meister' Shepard was the most awesome dude in the gahalaxy. He, like, totally punched out an elcor in the middle of a heated argument, then cracked the skulls of six dozen krogans with his unhelmeted face. He then rode to meet the Council on a golden palaquin carried by the turian generals that took over Shanxi (oh, by the way, Ashley is his girlfriend) and actually made the Council listen to him with his bad-ass speaking skill thingy. Then they booted Udina into space and Shep-meister punched out another elcor on his way to his sweet-ass Normandy flying ship and rescued the gambalaxy from the Reapers by shooting Saren in the face with his Widow, even though he doesn't get it until the second game.

Also, Anderson is his dad."

Or something like that. I really should save lines from really bad fanfics I read. Would make this process easier.

[fluffywalrus]

Icyflare wrote...

fluffywalrus wrote...

I doubt your writing would be horrendous if you're actually putting thought into it. I mean, I'm thinking of examples like (and I'm writing these myself as an attemtp to write as poorly as possible)

"Jeff was a bad dude. He had a claymore shotgun on his hip and a cigarette in his mouth and he said 'Bring it' as four Batarians charged at him a few metres away. He shot his gun loudly and it went through two Batarians, killing them, and the other two kept running at him. So he shot them too and they bled to death. Jeff dropped his cigarette to the ground and used his foot to grind it in a batarians face as he remembered Mindoir and Torfan and Elysium and how so many people died at the hands of Batarians and it made him so angry that his brow furrowed as he frowned. 'Don't mess with bad dudes like me, Batarians. Or you'll be in for it' Jeff said menacingly as he walked away down the road toward the Alliance base two kilometers away where Captain Anderson was waiting for him. "

Something like that. I would hope your writing is not anywhere as bad as that, because it took effort to write that poorly.

I think that so long as your writing skills are a decent measure above that, you'll be fine

That's actually not too bad. I've seen other fanfics at that level. Maybe it's just a testament to your writing that you think that's "bad".

Bad, for me, would probably be something like:

"Craigford 'Shep-meister' Shepard was the most awesome dude in the gahalaxy. He, like, totally punched out an elcor in the middle of a heated argument, then cracked the skulls of six dozen krogans with his unhelmeted face. He then rode to meet the Council on a golden palaquin carried by the turian generals that took over Shanxi (oh, by the way, Ashley is his girlfriend) and actually made the Council listen to him with his bad-ass speaking skill thingy. Then they booted Udina into space and Shep-meister punched out another elcor on his way to his sweet-ass Normandy flying ship and rescued the gambalaxy from the Reapers by shooting Saren in the face with his Widow, even though he doesn't get it until the second game.

Also, Anderson is his dad."

Or something like that. I really should save lines from really bad fanfics I read. Would make this process easier.

Oh lord, I think I'm going to have to include a character named Craigford in my fic.  He will be beaten down "badassfully" by Elcors he had attempted to fight. Or perhaps a worse fate. No one punches out Elcor on MY watch!

Oh man, though. Yeah, that's pretty darn bad writing, certainly worse than mine. I haven't seen anything near that bad in a long time, probably since the legendary "My Immortal". Though to my credit, I try to stay away from that kind of stuff. Maybe it's less rare in SI fics? Hrm.

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 24 juin 2012 - 04:30 .

[Drussius]

Icyflare wrote...

Bad, for me, would probably be something like:

"Craigford 'Shep-meister' Shepard was the most awesome dude in the gahalaxy. He, like, totally punched out an elcor in the middle of a heated argument, then cracked the skulls of six dozen krogans with his unhelmeted face. He then rode to meet the Council on a golden palaquin carried by the turian generals that took over Shanxi (oh, by the way, Ashley is his girlfriend) and actually made the Council listen to him with his bad-ass speaking skill thingy. Then they booted Udina into space and Shep-meister punched out another elcor on his way to his sweet-ass Normandy flying ship and rescued the gambalaxy from the Reapers by shooting Saren in the face with his Widow, even though he doesn't get it until the second game.

Also, Anderson is his dad."

Or something like that. I really should save lines from really bad fanfics I read. Would make this process easier.

Okay... I'm checking my laptop for bugs now...

[Icyflare]

Actually, that example was probably bordering on parody, but you get the point. Replicating genuinely bad writing without making fun of it is hard. It's difficult to relinquish proper grammar.

So, yeah, Drussius. I'm sure your writing is still way better than the examples we provided you

Speaking of making fun of stuff, in the spirit of satire and EC that's soon to come, I present this short reinterpretation of the ending scene between Stargazer and the little boy with him:

<<  "Two people rested under a darkened sky, snowflakes drifting onto their clothing and faces. The twin moons arched high above them.

    “Did that all really happen?” A small child piped up, looking at the far off stars above them.

    An older, gravely voice answered. “Yes, but some of the details have been lost in time. It all happened so very long ago.”

    “When can I go to the stars?”

    “One day, my sweet.”

    “What will be there?”

    “Anything you can imagine. Our galaxy has billions of stars. Each of those stars could have many worlds, and every world could home to be a different form of life. And every life is a special story of its own.”

    “Grandpa,” the smaller figure contemplated hard, “this story doesn’t make sense.”

    The older figure sighed. “It’s called artistic license, my dear.”

    “Tell me another one instead.”

    “It’s getting late...”

    “Grandpa…”

    The elder figure relented.

    “Okay.”>>

Ah, some of us wish this could happen...

[lillitheris]

Icyflare wrote...

Have a good sleep. Damn oneshot is finally up for you to read in the morning. Made it within 24 hours! 

Here is it in case for some strange reason, the link at the bottom of my signature doesn't work.

Nothing Gold Can Stay

I decided just to stick with my original name, because, honestly, the title kept repeating in my mind until I wrote it down =/

Awesome, glad you got it published!

[lillitheris]

fluffywalrus wrote...

However, would it seem odd then that the later chapters suddenly lose these little snippets? After the scene in question was finished and the story moved past it? I'm not sure about changing the style of the story at the midpoint, moving from a "now..." "three weeks ago" back and forth to just "now..." on an ongoing basis.

I think it could work. The time difference would narrow as the story progressed, and eventually you'd hit a point where things would pick up where the last snippet left off. It would naturally come to a head, and I don't think it would change the style of the fic too much. I think the important part would be to make the conflict that you're leaving snippets to a major one, so that when IT ends, after you've caught up, it won't seem odd for there to be a lull afterward, and chances are the reader won't liss the snippets if the conflict is concluded even decently.

I’m not certain it needs to either be a big climax, just so long as you don’t conclude it in the snippets. Make the last part of it a scene/chapter in its own right, and that’s a natural transition into the now without any need for explanation.

…

Edit: sigh, stupid quoting. To add something useless, I think I use various time-related devices without really considering it too much, happily jumping between timelines, just relying on context or other cues. It doesn’t really seem to get in the way too much.

Modifié par lillitheris, 24 juin 2012 - 08:03 .

[Icyflare]

lillitheris wrote...

Awesome, glad you got it published!

Me too. It was a very educational and gruelling experience. Developed something of a writing process now. Goes, "write, edit, edit, edit, rewrite, edit, edit, edit, edit, edit, spell-check, edit, edit..."

[Sweawm]

I'm glad I held back on releasing my latest project, now that I know when the Extended Cut will be released and can get ready to factor in some minor changes (Considering Bioware has promised that they won't change the Endings much)