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[dpMeggers]

hot_heart wrote...

Well, I'm sort of aping the original noir fiction from which Max Payne draws its inspiration, though I try and avoid too much metaphor and write almost cringe-worthy harder-edged stuff. I think this is my favourite:

'He was closer than I guessed, a fact I discover as a raise my gun, flicking the weaponlight on in tandem. The strobe illuminates his face long enough for me to see it register terror...and the bullets.'

In the interest of the thread, though, I think everyone should share a sentence or passage of theirs that they found 'risky' or memorable in some odd way.

WOO discussion point!

I'm not sure I have any 'risky' passages, maybe *SPOILERS* Lex's Death. What I do have are two rants that I utterly adore.

The first is by a mother (and an Alliance Lieutenant) directed at a couple of suits from Conatix who have come for her son, the conclusion of which reads like so:
“My concern, gentlemen,” and though she was no longer shouting, she was louder now. The footsteps had stopped, she was no longer pacing. Robbie imagined that she must have been standing in front of them, almost in their faces, “is that this is being done by a private company, with a private company’s attitude towards business, cutting costs and corners, with no accountability except to shareholders, which is to say, the highest results at the lowest price. In short gentlemen, I trust neither you nor who you represent.” She paused to let that settle in before finishing.

“If you come near my family again, I will have you charged with harassment. Now get. Out. Of my house.”

Edit: Formatting

Modifié par dpMeggers, 25 juin 2012 - 03:18 .

[Icyflare]

What's defined as "risky"? Is this in terms of narrative structure, concepts, dialogue, etc?

As for the forums being quiet, I think it's the EC. A lot of people are waiting for it like a godsend or a final execution.

Modifié par Icyflare, 25 juin 2012 - 06:16 .

[hot_heart]

Icyflare wrote...
What's defined as "risky"? Is this in terms of narrative structure, concepts, dialogue, etc?

Up to you, since we all have our own styles. I just want to see some bold writing! And I don't mean the formatting.

[MrStoob]

On the 'risky' lines front.

I pondered over this line for a while, deciding whether it was pretentious or a bit over the top:

“Or what..?” The pause gestates as Ethan snickers towards his friends before looking her coldly in the eyes to birth it. “Blueberry.”

[lillitheris]

hot_heart wrote...

'He was closer than I guessed, a fact I discover as a raise my gun, flicking the weaponlight on in tandem. The strobe illuminates his face long enough for me to see it register terror...and the bullets.'

I like it — although if it’s Miranda narrating, the whisky-rasped voice reading it out in my head is probably off.

And there’s definitely a cadence to how you’d read that sentence, yes.

In the interest of the thread, though, I think everyone should share a sentence or passage of theirs that they found 'risky' or memorable in some odd way.

There’s only been one case where I actually thought something was ‘risky’. There’s both a context issue, as well as the obvious paradox contained in the statement.

The line is, without spoilers: “Ooh…I'd give an arm and a leg to get my hands on the source for this. ”

…

Actually, that opens up another question…In dialogue, do you find yourself cleaning it up too much for the person speaking? Not slang or sloppy speech, so much.

I had a person use ‘in fact’ in a manner that is tautological in a narrative…but not when someone actually speaks. Or using the wrong preposition? Guess you’d need to establish a pattern from that.

Modifié par lillitheris, 25 juin 2012 - 06:31 .

[dpMeggers]

Icyflare wrote...

What's defined as "risky"? Is this in terms of narrative structure, concepts, dialogue, etc?

As for the forums being quiet, I think it's the EC. A lot of people are waiting for it like a godsend or a final execution.

Agreed on that point. People are either ranting/speculating like mad or avoiding for the sake of spoilers.

[lillitheris]

Icyflare wrote...

As for the forums being quiet, I think it's the EC. A lot of people are waiting for it like a godsend or a final execution.

Must be it, though I’d have expected the opposite. I guess they don’t want to jinx it

(FFN was a little slower too, actually, at least for my typical new chapter metrics.)

Modifié par lillitheris, 25 juin 2012 - 06:35 .

[MrStoob]

lillitheris wrote...

hot_heart wrote...

'He was closer than I guessed, a fact I discover as a raise my gun, flicking the weaponlight on in tandem. The strobe illuminates his face long enough for me to see it register terror...and the bullets.'

I like it — although if it’s Miranda narrating, the whisky-rasped voice reading it out in my head is probably off.

And there’s definitely a cadence to how you’d read that sentence, yes.

In the interest of the thread, though, I think everyone should share a sentence or passage of theirs that they found 'risky' or memorable in some odd way.

There’s only been one case where I actually thought something was ‘risky’. There’s both a context issue, as well as the obvious paradox contained in the statement.

The line is, without spoilers: “Ooh…I'd give an arm and a leg to get my hands on the source for this. ”

…

Actually, that opens up another question…In dialogue, do you find yourself cleaning it up too much for the person speaking? Not slang or sloppy speech, so much.

I had a person use ‘in fact’ in a manner that is tautological in a narrative…but not when someone actually speaks. Or using the wrong preposition? Guess you’d need to establish a pattern from that.

Bit of a mixed-metaphor for me.  You'd normally say 'I'd give my right arm for...' OR 'That must have cost an arm and a leg.'  But I'm English, and can get pernickety about such things.  

[dpMeggers]

lillitheris wrote...

Actually, that opens up another question…In dialogue, do you find yourself cleaning it up too much for the person speaking? Not slang or sloppy speech, so much.

I had a person use ‘in fact’ in a manner that is tautological in a narrative…but not when someone actually speaks. Or using the wrong preposition? Guess you’d need to establish a pattern from that.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. Is it: Do I find myself cleaning up dialogue in such a way that it contradicts the established pattern of speech of the character in question?

If so, I don't think so. Hard to tell given that I've written very little with established characters. I have 3 chapters of Joker in A Single Soul. And given that we get 3 games with him, I think he's one of the easier characters to write. (I think overall I've written a grand total of 4 lines each for Kaidan and Ash). In Conversations, the only established characters who have shown up to date are Shepard (who's a bit of a blank slate) and Anderson (who has spoken all of once, briefly).

[dpMeggers]

MrStoob wrote...

Bit of a mixed-metaphor for me.  You'd normally say 'I'd give my right arm for...' OR 'That must have cost an arm and a leg.'  But I'm English, and can get pernickety about such things.  

If I remember correctly (and without giving anything away) the character said it like that as a bit of a joke. I thought it was cute. It was certainly in character.

Edit: Missing word.

Modifié par dpMeggers, 25 juin 2012 - 06:46 .

[Icyflare]

I do have a narrative passage that's dark in tone and ends in the death of both my protagonists. I originally wrote another story, but it could probably work as an add-on to Nothing Gold Can Stay.

I don't mind stories that end on an unhappy/bittersweet note as long as it makes sense and fits the tone of the story as a whole. Happy endings are great but not if they sacrifice narrative cohesion to get there.

If you guys want to see it, I'll post it when I get home. Have to stop derping around on the forums and actually get to work =/

[hot_heart]

lillitheris wrote...
The line is, without spoilers: “Ooh…I'd give an arm and a leg to get my hands on the source for this. ”

Heh, I like it. Though I am fond of little wordplay like that.

lillitheris wrote...
Actually, that opens up another question…In dialogue, do you find yourself cleaning it up too much for the person speaking?

Very interesting question! I remember telling someone that I don't think EDI would end a sentence with a preposition though I'm not sure if the game supports that. Of all the characters, she seems the most well-spoken.

So I kind of try and stick to the 'rules' in narration but adhere to established 'voices' when doing dialogue. If there's one thing I've been complimented on with my writing, it is usually natural-sounding but effective dialogue. And I do spend a lot of time trying to hear how characters speak and pay attention to certain phrasing they use. Personally, I've actually noticed that Miranda's English tutoring may not have been as thorough as she claims...
Then again, nobody's perfect...

Part of what drove me to choose the style for my story was the cautious and stilted, almost laconic way in which Miranda speaks. Although than can seem a bit jarring when it comes to narration. "It's idiosyncratic" is my excuse.

It does make me wonder if the writing team has a bible for the characters that covers more than just their basic history. I remember someone here said they were drawn to how asari speak more elegantly and don't really use contractions, and I thought that was a really good observation.

Modifié par hot_heart, 25 juin 2012 - 06:59 .

[lillitheris]

MrStoob wrote...


Bit of a mixed-metaphor for me.  You'd normally say 'I'd give my right arm for...' OR 'That must have cost an arm and a leg.'  But I'm English, and can get pernickety about such things.  

Which ties in with the second part of the post!

…

One thing that made me happy this weekend was that I apparently managed to actually catch some people with a believable twist.

[Drussius]

hot_heart wrote...

*snip*

It does make me wonder if the writing team has a bible for the characters that covers more than just their basic history. I remember someone here said they were drawn to how asari speak more elegantly and don't really use contractions, and I thought that was a really good observation.

I've noticed this as well, but I am finding that when writing scenes including several different Asari, it's difficult to give them much variance in terms of speaking style if you write on the assumption that most Asari are well-spoken and somewhat formal in their speech.

[Drussius]

lillitheris wrote...

One thing that made me happy this weekend was that I apparently managed to actually catch some people with a believable twist.

Oh, definitely. The moment it was mentioned I went. "Didn't predict it, but could definitely see it happening."

[lillitheris]

dpMeggers wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Actually, that opens up another question…In dialogue, do you find yourself cleaning it up too much for the person speaking? Not slang or sloppy speech, so much.

I had a person use ‘in fact’ in a manner that is tautological in a narrative…but not when someone actually speaks. Or using the wrong preposition? Guess you’d need to establish a pattern from that.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. Is it: Do I find myself cleaning up dialogue in such a way that it contradicts the established pattern of speech of the character in question?

It made sense in my head…

I don’t mean even an established speech pattern, necessarily. Just whether you’d allow a character to make a mistake when speaking, whether it’s grammatic or stylistic?

Here‘s the example I was thinking about, unspoiled:

{The teams we have at the place are estimating that maybe as many as 60% of the stuff remaining at the time of the event had in fact done something. The rest were, in fact, affected much as other things were. … }

In a narrative section, I’d change one of those ‘in facts’ to something else — I thought about it here, too, but then decided that since I’d written it, the character might as well have said it.

(The {} indicate a dialogue on radio, in case you wonder.)

[hot_heart]

Drussius wrote...
I've noticed this as well, but I am finding that when writing scenes including several different Asari, it's difficult to give them much variance in terms of speaking style if you write on the assumption that most Asari are well-spoken and somewhat formal in their speech.

Then you need an Aethyta or Aria.

Honestly, you need to show us this stuff already

...but are you looking at what perspective the character is bringing and why they are even speaking? And just because they speak properly it doesn't mean the tone can't vary. Again, I don't mean that to sound patronising at all.

EDIT: Apologies if I am posting a lot right now. I am trying to write this chapter and it is driving me mad, making all the pieces fit! I can't concentrate.

Modifié par hot_heart, 25 juin 2012 - 07:43 .

[lillitheris]

hot_heart wrote...

Drussius wrote...
I've noticed this as well, but I am finding that when writing scenes including several different Asari, it's difficult to give them much variance in terms of speaking style if you write on the assumption that most Asari are well-spoken and somewhat formal in their speech.

Then you need an Aethyta or Aria.

Honestly, you need to show us this stuff already

...but are you looking at what perspective the character is bringing and why they are even speaking? And just because they speak properly it doesn't mean the tone can't vary. Again, I don't mean that to sound patronising at all.

Agreed on each count. One thing to be mindful of with the asari — in my opinion — is pushing them too far in the space-tolkien elf direction where everything’s elegant and beautiful.

EDIT: Apologies if I am posting a lot right now. I am trying to write this chapter and it is driving me mad, making all the pieces fit! I can't concentrate.

You should probably be writing, but I don’t mind

[dpMeggers]

lillitheris wrote...

dpMeggers wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Actually, that opens up another question…In dialogue, do you find yourself cleaning it up too much for the person speaking? Not slang or sloppy speech, so much.

I had a person use ‘in fact’ in a manner that is tautological in a narrative…but not when someone actually speaks. Or using the wrong preposition? Guess you’d need to establish a pattern from that.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. Is it: Do I find myself cleaning up dialogue in such a way that it contradicts the established pattern of speech of the character in question?

It made sense in my head…

I don’t mean even an established speech pattern, necessarily. Just whether you’d allow a character to make a mistake when speaking, whether it’s grammatic or stylistic?

Here‘s the example I was thinking about, unspoiled:

{The teams we have at the place are estimating that maybe as many as 60% of the stuff remaining at the time of the event had in fact done something. The rest were, in fact, affected much as other things were. … }

In a narrative section, I’d change one of those ‘in facts’ to something else — I thought about it here, too, but then decided that since I’d written it, the character might as well have said it.

(The {} indicate a dialogue on radio, in case you wonder.)

Ah. In that case, I haven't allowed them to make any real mistakes to date (that I know of). At the moment I'm rewriting Conversation and I'm hoping to have speech reflect the characters a little more closely, including their origins and values.

For example: One character is pretty verbal and either speaks in a number of sentence fragments (informal) or in long sentences (formal). Another is more likely to be silent or say very little, unless they're annoyed or angry, in which case they'll yell for a bit, but the quantity of words will still be much smaller.

[Drussius]

lillitheris wrote...

hot_heart wrote...

Drussius wrote...
I've noticed this as well, but I am finding that when writing scenes including several different Asari, it's difficult to give them much variance in terms of speaking style if you write on the assumption that most Asari are well-spoken and somewhat formal in their speech.

Then you need an Aethyta or Aria.

Honestly, you need to show us this stuff already

...but are you looking at what perspective the character is bringing and why they are even speaking? And just because they speak properly it doesn't mean the tone can't vary. Again, I don't mean that to sound patronising at all.

Agreed on each count. One thing to be mindful of with the asari — in my opinion — is pushing them too far in the space-tolkien elf direction where everything’s elegant and beautiful.

Of course I'm looking at the perspectives involved and doing my best to give each character her individual voice. I just find that scenes where I have multiple Asari conversing are a little less varied than scenes I've written in fantasy stories in the past, where the lack of formality and the use of slang or just bad grammar gives each character a more distinct style of speaking.

As a side note, any scene I write involving Asari includes an additional writing stage: Rereading it to remove all the contractions in their dialogue that I put in as a matter of habit.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Are we still offering snippets of our stories that we're particularly proud of? Because I do want to share something, but am wondering if it would be apropos or not at this point.

[hot_heart]

Do it!

[lillitheris]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Are we still offering snippets of our stories that we're particularly proud of? Because I do want to share something, but am wondering if it would be apropos or not at this point.

I think those are always welcome, especially if you’ve got a good story or analysis to go with it!

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Ok, then.  There are two scenes in my Kelly story, Ubi Venenum, ibi Evaqua, which I am particularly proud of.  It's where Kelly has to help restore Nora Shepard's mental health, nevermind the fact she's got a cruel and manipulative Prothean living in her head, from the Beacon on Eden Prime, that goes by the name of Echo that awoke when Shepard nearly had a mental breakdown.


Scene one:  Kelly has discovered Shepard's Deep, Dark Secret ™ and when Kelly tries to bring it out into the light, she nearly paid the price with her life. Collateral damage ensued.

When the wounds were tended to, Kelly looked up to see Nora's face soaked with tears, "I'm so sorry..." she wailed. "I'm so sorry..."Kelly threw her arms around Shepard, who responded in kind and wept into the younger woman's shoulder, her apology repeated over and over before she broke down into heaving sobs. For a moment, Kelly wondered if the apology was for her or for her friend.

More than an hour of passed before the Yeoman spoke over Shepard's lament.

"You're alright, Nora. You're alright," Kelly said soothingly and stroked her hair.

"I hurt you, Kelly. I'm a monster..." Shepard whispered between sniffs as the tear stain on Kelly's shirt grew larger.

"No, Nora. You're not a monster. You never were," Kelly responded as she gently rocked the taller woman in her arms.


Scene two:  Echo, the Prothean living in Shepard's head and acting as a seperate personality, has been watching Kelly and with the secret out, wants to 'reward' Kelly for helping Shepard recover by giving Shepard to her with 'suggestions' to forget Liara and move onto Kelly.

"Imagine," Echo whispered, her lips only centimeters from Kelly's as their fingers interlocked with each other, "the Reapers defeated. She has achieved victory for you and your people. And she returns to you, and only you. I merely give her a gentle push and the rest she does on her own."

Time suddenly stood still for Kelly. To be on the receiving end of the love that Liara T'Soni once knew? She knew Shepard now, and she was in a position that many, many people would kill for. In an instant, she saw the possibility of Echo's 'reward'. All of a sudden, it was something she would have gladly taken under any other circumstance. To see Shepard hold her close and consider her the most important person in the world would be all she would ever want. As wonderful as the thought was, it was all too good to be true.

Kelly closed her eyes, shook her head, and gently pushed Echo away."I'm sorry, but I can't. I'd be lying to say I wasn't tempted, but knowing that this was how it came to be. This, this farce. I'd never be able to live with myself. And Shepard... no. I would never want to do that to her."

The Prothean looked at her evenly. Not angered, not overjoyed. A moment of silence passed between them until Echo snorted, shrugged, and murmured dispassionately, "As you wish, Kelly Chambers."



What I'm most proud of of these two scenes is the raw emotion of people at their most vulnerable and at the same time, their best as people... I hope. I also wanted to show the kind of person Kelly Chambers is and not the village bicycle people erroneously believe she is.  That she's one of the few, if not the only, characters in Mass Effect that is without guile, has no hidden agenda, and so on.  That she would gladly give up what she wants most because she knows in her heart of hearts that to use a 'love potion' to get Shepard would be a lie that she'd never want to live with.

And while I am aware of the whole thing in ME3 where she admits to sending reports to TIMmy, I thought that was her job.  I mean, what's a counselor supposed to do with reports on a ship full of people not expecting to come back?  Let them gather dust?

Also, bear in mind, I wrote this last fall, long before ME3 came into the picture.

Modifié par IliyaMoroumetz, 25 juin 2012 - 10:14 .

[MrStoob]

hot_heart wrote...

Drussius wrote...
I've noticed this as well, but I am finding that when writing scenes including several different Asari, it's difficult to give them much variance in terms of speaking style if you write on the assumption that most Asari are well-spoken and somewhat formal in their speech.

Then you need an Aethyta or Aria.

Honestly, you need to show us this stuff already

...but are you looking at what perspective the character is bringing and why they are even speaking? And just because they speak properly it doesn't mean the tone can't vary. Again, I don't mean that to sound patronising at all.

EDIT: Apologies if I am posting a lot right now. I am trying to write this chapter and it is driving me mad, making all the pieces fit! I can't concentrate.

Indeed.  I usully write Liara and Nezzy with few 'can't' or 'won't' type 'inflections', but I did notice Liara using them more as the series went on.  And agree with lill, my asari sound quite airy fairy but that's as much my Verity Shep's interpretation as an asari worshipper hehe.