9959 réponses à ce sujet

[fainmaca]

Weighing in on the chapter length discussion- it really depends on the type of story your writing. When I write a chapter, its meant to represent an in-game mission, so it tends to reach at least twenty five thousand as it needs to introduce the main conflict of the the mission, develop it, introduce and remove characters as needed, then resolve the plot while keeping it as a self-contained unit. Sometimes they can run long if I have to establish a Paragon/Renegade vote, as I need time to develop a case for both sides of the vote.

As for the 'naming Shepard' issue, again, it depends on what you're working towards. If you're developing a personal background, a first name is fine. But I write ITU to emulate the games, as an alternate possible ME3 storyline. Thus, I keep my Shepard nondescript and unnamed so he can be an avatar for as many readers as possible. I may have my Shepard pictured in my head, but I don't use that description in the fic. Better for the readers to implant their own Shepard. In that way, they're better prepared to make a genuine choice when they are faced with one of my votes, choosing what they would for their own Shepard rather than trying to guess what I've decided is the best path.

[Spartanburger]

I have a question for you guys/girls, although the topic is a bit touchy...

My question is this: Sex/Romance scenes in fics. How important are they, and how much detail should be included.

In the original planning stages for my fic I had decided that any romance scene would be alluded to but not described, essentially being a text version of the standard 'fade-to-black' romance scene we see for some characters in ME3. Yet now that I've planned in detail times around when the romance scene is, the more convinced I am that I should attempt... more detail (giggidy).

Essentially, I guess there are three levels of romance scenes:

"Isn't that nice": where there's the usual pre-romance discussion, but not much else.
"Now we're getting somewhere": Same as above but with much more detail, perhaps even foreplay, but the actual act of coitus is still not described. Pretty much everything up to that point is.
"Homerun": Everything.

Now, I've read enough fics to have read at least one for each 'level' described above and they've all been rather good, but what I want to know is what level of description you would prefer and why.

Currently, I've planned "now we're getting somwhere" scenes but as this is a rather touchy subject if like to know what readers would think before I commit to one or the other.

[EsterCloat]

Spartanburger wrote...

I have a question for you guys/girls, although the topic is a bit touchy...

My question is this: Sex/Romance scenes in fics. How important are they, and how much detail should be included.

In the original planning stages for my fic I had decided that any romance scene would be alluded to but not described, essentially being a text version of the standard 'fade-to-black' romance scene we see for some characters in ME3. Yet now that I've planned in detail times around when the romance scene is, the more convinced I am that I should attempt... more detail (giggidy).

Essentially, I guess there are three levels of romance scenes:

"Isn't that nice": where there's the usual pre-romance discussion, but not much else.
"Now we're getting somewhere": Same as above but with much more detail, perhaps even foreplay, but the actual act of coitus is still not described. Pretty much everything up to that point is.
"Homerun": Everything.

Now, I've read enough fics to have read at least one for each 'level' described above and they've all been rather good, but what I want to know is what level of description you would prefer and why.

Currently, I've planned "now we're getting somwhere" scenes but as this is a rather touchy subject if like to know what readers would think before I commit to one or the other.

As a reader, I skip over scenes in the "homerun" section. I see sex as an intimate act between two individuals and when reading a story set in a universe I'm invested in with characters I know I feel very uncomfortable seeing them get it on, as it were. I feel like a voyeur essentially and I'm more comfortable skipping it then reading about it.

The two other levels I can read with no problems.

Modifié par EsterCloat, 29 mai 2012 - 02:19 .

[fluffywalrus]

Spartanburger wrote...

I have a question for you guys/girls, although the topic is a bit touchy...

My question is this: Sex/Romance scenes in fics. How important are they, and how much detail should be included.

In the original planning stages for my fic I had decided that any romance scene would be alluded to but not described, essentially being a text version of the standard 'fade-to-black' romance scene we see for some characters in ME3. Yet now that I've planned in detail times around when the romance scene is, the more convinced I am that I should attempt... more detail (giggidy).

Essentially, I guess there are three levels of romance scenes:

"Isn't that nice": where there's the usual pre-romance discussion, but not much else.
"Now we're getting somewhere": Same as above but with much more detail, perhaps even foreplay, but the actual act of coitus is still not described. Pretty much everything up to that point is.
"Homerun": Everything.

Now, I've read enough fics to have read at least one for each 'level' described above and they've all been rather good, but what I want to know is what level of description you would prefer and why.

Currently, I've planned "now we're getting somwhere" scenes but as this is a rather touchy subject if like to know what readers would think before I commit to one or the other.

I personally don't mind "homerun". I love the other two, but homerun is where it gets dicey.  More or less, it's very easy to fill those scenes with cliche cheese, or fill it with strictly physical descriptions of the acts.
Now, I know a lot of guys and girls that are into the purely physical stuff in erotica fiction and on porn, but I tend to prefer some form of intimacy. Which doesn't mean that the character's can't have a fast-paced rollicking good time, but there often needs to be some balance set.

I've never wrote one of those scenes before, to be truthful, and I'm holding off on it for as long as possible because I think they need a lot of thought put into them. Otherwise it can get painful to read.
I have no issues reading a scene about two characters having a good time. There was a oneshot that was done a while back with Aria T'Loak and Councilor Tevos that I think blended the physical well with the narrative. It was still a bit "in your face", but I thought it was a good enough jaunt.

In Mass Effect, I think it would be weird if the act of sex were to take place in a vacuum, and that's what I see sometimes. It's like, the characters are stripped away of their characteristics as well as their clothes when people go for homerun scenes(well, I'd say a decent portion do, IMO), and...well, especially if the writer is re-doing the scenes previous to Ilos/Collector Base/Cronos Station. There's often little to no build-up, no stress release that's explored, no worries or frustrations.
For instance, in a few(not all, but a few) Liara/Shep Ilos scenes, the thrill of their first joining is explored in a mere sentence akin to "And suddenly, they were one; their nervous systems realigning themselves to each other as their minds fused into one glorious whole" *insert purely physical sexual activity OR cheese about how awesome mindmelding is*

I mean, some of it IS snuff or smut or whatever people call it. I just like seeing characters explored, and when you're going about writing a scene where two characters are so intimate with each other...one of the few times Shepard literally bares all and is (to a degree) vulnerable in the ME series, I find it's a disservice to not explore the nuances that allowed that moment to exist, to not explore each character's reactions and expressions throughout, etc.

But hey, I'm a bit of a romantic so.... don't mind me

[lillitheris]

MrStoob wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
on the sly

British? <_<

Not that it matters, I was just curious.

Nay, natural-born Cosmopolite.

[Iclonic]

Ainyan42 wrote...

Icyflare wrote...

Question: how do you guys as readers feel about fanfics that use their Shepard's first name right off the bat and often when other characters are addressing Shepard?

As a writer, it's probably very tempting to establish certain parameters about your Shepard's character as quickly as possible, but it can come off as jarring and breaks the immersion feeling that stories try to create. I actually prefer that writers don't use their Shepard's first names at all unless it's absolutely necessary to the story's plot or dynamics. Anyone else's thoughts?

I personally never use my Shepard's first name. In any fanfic I write, she's always referred to as 'Shepard' or 'the Commander' - but never by her first name. It can be a bit jarring, especially during a personal scene between her and her LI or a close friend, but I feel that by using a first name for Shepard, it would almost be SI. When I am writing, I want people to be able to read my work and think 'this could be part of my head cannon', which I don't believe can happen when I name Shepard and her name doesn't coincide with their name. It breaks the immersion and takes them out of the story of 'The great Commander Shepard' and instead almost creates an AU.

I don't mind reading fics where other writers use Shepard's "first name", but those stories rarely inspire me to consider their events in terms of my personal head cannon.

Your words speak volume.  I 'was' going to do this...but I had decided not to. 

Up to a certain point.  And it is jarring for a LI to say that.  That's why I chose the default names for the Shepards...John. (Or Jane [I think] for the FemShep.) 

[MidnightRaith]

Spartanburger wrote...

I have a question for you guys/girls, although the topic is a bit touchy...

My question is this: Sex/Romance scenes in fics. How important are they, and how much detail should be included.

In the original planning stages for my fic I had decided that any romance scene would be alluded to but not described, essentially being a text version of the standard 'fade-to-black' romance scene we see for some characters in ME3. Yet now that I've planned in detail times around when the romance scene is, the more convinced I am that I should attempt... more detail (giggidy).

Essentially, I guess there are three levels of romance scenes:

"Isn't that nice": where there's the usual pre-romance discussion, but not much else.
"Now we're getting somewhere": Same as above but with much more detail, perhaps even foreplay, but the actual act of coitus is still not described. Pretty much everything up to that point is.
"Homerun": Everything.

Now, I've read enough fics to have read at least one for each 'level' described above and they've all been rather good, but what I want to know is what level of description you would prefer and why.

Currently, I've planned "now we're getting somwhere" scenes but as this is a rather touchy subject if like to know what readers would think before I commit to one or the other.

None of the types you presented bother me much, provided they are done well. I agree with fluffywalrus on this one, the last is certainly where it gets complicated. If you don't think you can do it, I wouldn't touch it. It could certainly turn what was a great fic into a BigLippedAlligator moment. Especially if you're like me and go in-depth with the characters and start to suddenly focus purely on the sex.

To be honest, I have no idea what my plans are in regard to the Ilos scene in my own fic. This is my first time writing romance and I've certainly never written any...ah, steamy scenes. I've got a lot to think about, but I don't think I'm going to go into homerun territory considering I really don't know how to write that while keeping true to the characters.

EDIT: MrStoob, you, EsterCloat and fluffywalrus really confused me with your avatars for a moment there. 

Modifié par MidnightRaith, 29 mai 2012 - 03:20 .

[fluffywalrus]

Haha, well, I suppose I'll blame Bioware for the limited stock of avatars.

On a side note, now I'm imagining thorian clones of Liara and it's depressing

[MidnightRaith]

fluffywalrus wrote...

Haha, well, I suppose I'll blame Bioware for the limited stock of avatars.

On a side note, now I'm imagining thorian clones of Liara and it's depressing

Yeah, mine's not the most unique either. I'm pretty disappointed at the selection the CE edition has, so I just went with the standard Femshep. Maybe once I finally get to my ME2 playthrough I'll get a good screenshot and figure out how to upload it....

Anyway, yeah, I don't really want Liara anywhere near the Thorian. She needs to stay her nice blue tone.

[lillitheris]

MidnightRaith wrote...
If you don't think you can do it, I wouldn't touch it.

This.

Mind, if you want to write out the naughty bits and feel comfortable with it but you’re not sure your readers wouldn’t be happy to just skip over it if they don’t like it, there is actually a fourth option: fade + enhanced edition. Write the main story at your L1 or L2 and a half-fade of some kind, and then write a separate ‘detailed’ story.

Not sure if it’s any better than the alternatives, but it is an option.

…

OT: you can get a custom avatar like I have by uploading a character from DA:O or the free DA:O character creator thing (or demo, don’t remember). Search for "bsn custom avatar" will probably get you on the trail.

Modifié par lillitheris, 29 mai 2012 - 03:48 .

[fluffywalrus]

lillitheris wrote...

MidnightRaith wrote...
If you don't think you can do it, I wouldn't touch it.

This.

Mind, if you want to write out the naughty bits and feel comfortable with it but you’re not sure your readers wouldn’t be happy to just skip over it if they don’t like it, there is actually a fourth option: fade + enhanced edition. Write the main story at your L1 or L2 and a half-fade of some kind, and then write a separate ‘detailed’ story.

Not sure if it’s any better than the alternatives, but it is an option.

…

OT: you can get a custom avatar like I have by uploading a character from DA:O or the free DA:O character creator thing (or demo, don’t remember). Search for "bsn custom avatar" will probably get you on the trail.

Re: Cutting out the scene and making a oneshot for those who want to read it

That's a good idea, I think. So long as both are written well, I think it's an elegant solution.

Re: Custom avatars
Oh hey, that's pretty decent. I'll probably get on that sometime. At least I know I have the option now

[Icyflare]

Hmmm...how do you guys find your beta readers/editors? I'm thinking of asking someone to beta read for me, but the list on FFnet is daunting and long. Any advice?

[fainmaca]

@ Icyflare: TBH, I don't make use of a Beta. I can understand the value of it, but I've never felt the need for my material. Does anyone else find them useful? Is this an invaluable tool in fic writing?

On the giggity topic: I personally would not be comfrotable writing anything too explicit. Fade-to-blacks on the level we get in ME2 would be enough for me. But every author is different. Some are quite proficient at this kind of material and will write it well, others (like me) would handle it poorly. Find a level you are comfortable with and that is in keeping with the tone of the rest of your work, and stick with it.

[MidnightRaith]

Icyflare wrote...

Hmmm...how do you guys find your beta readers/editors? I'm thinking of asking someone to beta read for me, but the list on FFnet is daunting and long. Any advice?

I don't use one usually. I have an OCD personality and I aim to be an editor in real life so for the most part, my stuff is pretty good as far as grammar is concerned, I believe. However, some people do find them useful, I know. When I do get people to read over my stuff, I tend to use someone I know like my sister. She's a bit better at commas than I am.

Modifié par MidnightRaith, 29 mai 2012 - 11:29 .

[lillitheris]

MidnightRaith wrote...

Icyflare wrote...

Hmmm...how do you guys find your beta readers/editors? I'm thinking of asking someone to beta read for me, but the list on FFnet is daunting and long. Any advice?

I don't use one usually. I have an OCD personality and I aim to be an editor in real life so for the most part, my stuff is pretty good as far as grammar is concerned, I believe. However, some people do find them useful, I know. When I do get people to read over my stuff, I tend to use someone I know like my sister. She's a bit better at commas than I am.

A second pair of eyes is always a good thing. I certainly wouldn’t turn down someone who wanted to help but in absence thereof, I do the best I can for the first version and then re-read it occasionally to see if I notice anything new.

Beta readers aren’t a magic bullet either, half the stuff I know has been read still has errors left anyway.

[fluffywalrus]

Yeah, I'm not big on having official beta-readers. When I finish a chapter or a section, I re-read it a few times, speaking out every syllable. Slowly. Helps me catch things I'd gloss over.

[noxiuniversitas1]

Very nice thread idea, lillitheris, and some absorbing posts from the regulars. I've only had a brief moment to skim the thread, but will have a closer read once I'm home.

Briefly, I agree with pretty much every sentiment on page 1 - SIs are disastrous and should be avoided like the plague. However, I don't mind characters which unconsciously share some "author-inherited" traits / charactersitics... as long as it is only to add to immersion and nothing more (e.g. personal experiences manifesting in an OC's / main character's reaction such that the scene is more realistic).

I also agree that OCs have a role, and that 98% of the time, they should be nothing more than a couple of paragraphs / a chapter at the most. For example, giving Chakwas a couple of assistants who appear during a treatment scene then are no more (I mean, IRL, doctors never work alone...). The 2% of the time that I think major OCs are ok is when they contribute immensely to character development, or help fill holes in an established plot.

Personally, I've not read a lot of fanfics. In fact, I'm rather ashamed to say I've not read any fiction in the last 5 years or so... not written anything non-academic in over 10. Kind of let life pass me by and got too swept away by work / studies. Anyway I'm slowly attempting to to rectify that, but I still don't have a tremendous amount of free time. I started a new fic about a week ago (Nova et Vetera), mainly because I had a bit more down-time than usual (winding up a 10 week stay in the US before heading back to the UK...).

Anyway, I totally get where you're coming from on reader interaction. I know from FF stats that <1-2% of regular readers leave reviews. Coming from a profession which is all about social interaction with vulnerable people, having / wanting dialogue with readers is something I can definitely identify with. I'm fortunate enough to have two who leave reviews pretty much every chapter.

Anyway, just wanted to pollute BSN with my two-cents. I would love for people to check out my attempt and give feedback, but I can't really ask any of you to do that because I can't really spare much time to read and review others' in return (until mid-June, anyway...). I probably will lurk around here a bit, though, there's lots of good insight to be had

[noxiuniversitas1]

oh, and... on Shepard's name... before starting mine I flicked through a few FShep/Liara fics (since that was where mine was headed...). The fics which basically used Shep's first name all the time gave me the heebie-jeebies. Consequently my femshep's first name hasn't been stated in 10 chapters (she does have one... I think, just waiting for the right moment for it to be used...)

[Sialater]

Beta readers help me with clarity. Not just grammar. I'll think I'm getting something across, but I'm not. So, my betas will let me know.  I found them via the fandoms here.  The Kaidan and Garrus threads, specifically.

As far as smut... I prefer to stop the action at the end of the foreplay and fade to black.  I tried it the other way and it was just so far beyond my comfort zone... I'm never doing that again.  

Modifié par Sialater, 29 mai 2012 - 05:25 .

[lillitheris]

Sialater wrote...

Beta readers help me with clarity. Not just grammar. I'll think I'm getting something across, but I'm not. So, my betas will let me know.

Oh, absolutely. My point was that since it won’t magically fix all problems and given the apparent difficulty of finding a beta, let alone just the right one, it might be better to spend the energy trying to improve the best you can yourself instead. Then, hopefully, you’ll get some useful reviews/feedback or even a more regular contributor or ‘official’ beta.

You’re definitely fortunate to have more than one person helping you, it can be an immensely useful asset.

[Sialater]

lillitheris wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Beta readers help me with clarity. Not just grammar. I'll think I'm getting something across, but I'm not. So, my betas will let me know.

Oh, absolutely. My point was that since it won’t magically fix all problems and given the apparent difficulty of finding a beta, let alone just the right one, it might be better to spend the energy trying to improve the best you can yourself instead. Then, hopefully, you’ll get some useful reviews/feedback or even a more regular contributor or ‘official’ beta.

You’re definitely fortunate to have more than one person helping you, it can be an immensely useful asset.

Believe me, I'm immensely grateful to my Betas.  They're also helpful in noticing when I've done too much telling instead of showing.  I would gladly buy them all presents, but fortunately, they just want more fic.  LOL

[MidnightRaith]

A second pair of eyes are most definitely a good thing in most cases. Kinda have to agree there considering my career goal. Unfortunately my sister is unavailable to beta right now and I don't have anyone else. Can't say I like the thought of finding one on fanfic.net either to be honest.

I would like to beta myself, but I just don't have the time.

[lillitheris]

MidnightRaith wrote...

A second pair of eyes are most definitely a good thing in most cases. Kinda have to agree there considering my career goal. Unfortunately my sister is unavailable to beta right now and I don't have anyone else. Can't say I like the thought of finding one on fanfic.net either to be honest.

I would like to beta myself, but I just don't have the time.

It would seem that a pool system would be the optimal solution in absence of people who can commit to reading consistently, especially for pure text review (typos, grammar, structure) where it’s not really essential whether the ‘editor’ is interested in the particular story.

[Sialater]

You could always ask here for volunteers.

I'd volunteer, but I'm Beta'ing for two others as well as Beta'ing for my own Betas. I'm swamped.

[MrStoob]

Might seem like a strange question, but I'd like people's opinion on this.

When does 'angrily lashing out' become 'domestic violence'?

The ME world is filled with violence, but between two lovers? I'm working on a scene and this is my current sticking point. I am thinking that in the heat of the moment as a one off, and in the right context, it should probably be acceptable. But I don't really want to offend anyone. Creatively, I shouldn't care. But this is a delicate subject IMHO.

Thoughts anyone?