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[hot_heart]

fainmaca wrote...

hot_heart wrote...
In the meantime though, any tips or things a general fan might overlook when writing Jack? I get the feeling you'll know something, fainmaca, but I haven't gotten round to reading your story yet.

If there's anything in particular you'd like to know more about, I can certainly try to help. For now, here's a general opinion on writing Jack.

A large part of the problem with writing Jack is that almost every fan you meet will have a different interpretation of her. I hope Lillitheris doesn't mind if I take the above view as an example. While many fans may say that 'F**k with me and I'll f**k you up' is a pretty accurate summary of the character in ME2, others will say that this is all pretense, that in reality Jack puts up all of these barriers and makes herself appear so unappealing because she's suffered so much at the hands of both those she trusted and those who didn't give her any choice in the matter, and now she figures the best way to ensure she never gets hurt again is to keep everyone on the other side of this tattooed, vulgar, aggressive image she's created. But then again you'll get another set of fans who'll say that all of the above is a load of crap. Like I said, everyone has their own image of the character. I mean, a prime example is the fact that I've just been debating with a fellow Jackolyte in the Jack support thread over just how closely tied together Miranda and Jack are in the story. The other poster supported an almost yin-yang relationship between the two, while I disputed that their relationship was one of circumstance more than personal vendetta. in the end, we were both right for our vision of the two characters.

If you want the best chance to write Jack accurately, make sure that your playthroughs of ME2 include at least one as a ManShep who romances Jack. You would not believe how many people suddenly find their views of the character turned upside down after that. If you have done that, then just write what you believe to be correct for the character. Your fic is your impression of the game universe.

Thanks for the advice!

A large chunk of that does sound like Miranda too.
And I agree, I don't see a Jack/Miranda vendetta. It is more circumstance and whatnot.

[Drussius]

While I am not putting up the first part of my story just yet, I'm getting close to the point where I will be comfortable publishing Chapter One, since I am midway through writing Chapter Four. However, I was starting to think about how I would characterize my story, and was looking for some input. I'm not even sure what is involved on FF.net, whether you have to write up a plot summary or just choose some tags for their search engine or both, but a few questions:

How do you decide when you first start publishing a story what you will choose for categories into which it fits? For example, I've sort of had the idea that two of my characters might eventually develop a romantic relationship. However, it is unlikely to become a central focus of the story and thus far, after three and a half chapters, there is no hint of it. But if I do decide to include a romantic angle, would I need to classify it as a romance? Would it be right to do so if the romance will not be the central focus of the story? In what sort of plot would you classify the story with the "Hurt/Comfort" flag I see in some stories? And so forth.

So I'm just wondering at the thought process that comes into play when my fellow writers start publishing a story. I imagine it's less of an issue with one-shots, but for longer stories, do you operate on the basis of the long-term content you intend for the story? And do you ever find yourself needing to change the category in which you classify a story because the plot turns in an unintended direction?

Edit: Side note... I've never named a story before finishing it. It's usually the last thing I do. Has anyone ever named their story with one idea in mind and then found that by the end the title no longer fits?

Modifié par Drussius, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:50 .

[fainmaca]

I definately think that the Revenant gun needs to be removed from Into The Unknown as soon as this chapter is over. Its kind of awkward to mention Shepard 'cradling the Revenant in his hands' when I know the dude's waiting patiently on the Normandy.

In a related note, I'm getting these final few scenes done if it kills me.

In a further related note, I saw a DLC idea being bandied about on this forum that featured a character called the Revenant and encountering a new class of Reaper enemy known as an Avatar in an ancient, abandoned Prothean science outpost. Not sure whether to feel ripped off, flattered, or if I'm reading too much into this scenario. Here's a link to ITU if anyone wants to make their own conclusion: Link.

Modifié par fainmaca, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:04 .

[hot_heart]

Drussius wrote...
How do you decide when you first start publishing a story what you will choose for categories into which it fits? For example, I've sort of had the idea that two of my characters might eventually develop a romantic relationship. However, it is unlikely to become a central focus of the story and thus far, after three and a half chapters, there is no hint of it.

Edit: Side note... I've never named a story before finishing it. It's usually the last thing I do. Has anyone ever named their story with one idea in mind and then found that by the end the title no longer fits?

I just used basic Adventure/Drama for mine. Adventure fits in everything in a sense: action, romancy, comedy, tragedy.

I would leave the Romance one alone, as I get the impression it's more for people who want the relationship to be the focus while everything else is just background. Not exactly slashfics but something like that. If a romance develops as it goes, that's just standard adventure stuff.

As for names, I just tried to focus on my theme and used that as a focus/guide for some of the relationships between the characters and situatuons. Since mine is about Miranda during ME3, it revolves around how along she is, how she's trying to distance herself from Cerberus and maybe even Shepard, and how she even defines herself anymore. Though I'm not entirely sure how well that all comes through.

Originally I was going to go with the title of an Idlewild song 'The Space Between All Things', which I then shortened to 'The Space Between' but, and I'm serious here, I was a bit wary about the 'DAT ASS' situation with Miranda so opted for something slightly different that I don't even like 100%...

Long answer is long.

[dpMeggers]

Drussius wrote...

While I am not putting up the first part of my story just yet, I'm getting close to the point where I will be comfortable publishing Chapter One, since I am midway through writing Chapter Four. However, I was starting to think about how I would characterize my story, and was looking for some input. I'm not even sure what is involved on FF.net, whether you have to write up a plot summary or just choose some tags for their search engine or both, but a few questions:

How do you decide when you first start publishing a story what you will choose for categories into which it fits? For example, I've sort of had the idea that two of my characters might eventually develop a romantic relationship. However, it is unlikely to become a central focus of the story and thus far, after three and a half chapters, there is no hint of it. But if I do decide to include a romantic angle, would I need to classify it as a romance? Would it be right to do so if the romance will not be the central focus of the story? In what sort of plot would you classify the story with the "Hurt/Comfort" flag I see in some stories? And so forth.

So I'm just wondering at the thought process that comes into play when my fellow writers start publishing a story. I imagine it's less of an issue with one-shots, but for longer stories, do you operate on the basis of the long-term content you intend for the story? And do you ever find yourself needing to change the category in which you classify a story because the plot turns in an unintended direction?

Edit: Side note... I've never named a story before finishing it. It's usually the last thing I do. Has anyone ever named their story with one idea in mind and then found that by the end the title no longer fits?

On FF.net you get to write a summary (which I am bad at) and chose tags (which I am less bad at). To be perfectly honest I find the categories somewhat meaningless, especially because you only get to choose two. Both my Mass Effect stories got Sci-Fi tags because of the setting. My stories are fairly dialogue heavy so I went for Friendship for Conversations because the whole premise of the story is that it's about Shepard, RJ and Tess and how their relationships formed. I also just checked and you can change the tags later if you feel that the original classification no longer applies.

I usually see Hurt/Comfort in stories about grief, where either one or many main characters are grieving about something and it brings them together or they comfort each other. But it would also apply to therapy scenes and that sort of thing (I think).

On the topic of titles: Conversations in a Bar (and I hate to keep harping on it but it's my main focus right now) isn't really indicative of what happens in the story. I wrote it as a one-shot where Shepard is in that sort of weird comatose state and has a dream (maybe?) in which he is in an empty bar and he has a conversation with a friend who died on Akuze. After I published it, someone reviewed it saying they would be interested in reading more about Shepard and R.J., and then eleven more chapters happened, none of which involved them chatting in a bar. But I also can't think of anything else to call it so Conversations in a Bar stuck (it's not a catchy title).

[dpMeggers]

A question about contrivance and coincidence.

Without giving too much away, I'm working on my plans for chapters 13-however many it takes to finish of Conversation, and I'm sitting in the second chapter of the Blitz (which we know Shepard was involved in). Now I have OCs living on Elysium so they're also fighting.

My question: would it feel like coincidence if Shepard's squad reinforced the OCs position, or would it be incredibly contrived? Would it be believable if Shepard's CO sent them there deliberately (as motivation to hurry the hell up) or not?

[Drussius]

Not having read your story yet (but it is on my list!), I can't say for sure how the situation would come across, but I would tend to lean toward coincidence being okay in stories. But then maybe I'm biased, since in my story all of the characters end up in the same place at the same time at the worst possible moment. So perhaps I've veered more into contrivance than coincidence.

But I don't see why Shepard's squad coming to the rescue of some OC's (or something like that) would feel too heavy-handed.

[Icyflare]

dpMeggers wrote...

A question about contrivance and coincidence.

Without giving too much away, I'm working on my plans for chapters 13-however many it takes to finish of Conversation, and I'm sitting in the second chapter of the Blitz (which we know Shepard was involved in). Now I have OCs living on Elysium so they're also fighting.

My question: would it feel like coincidence if Shepard's squad reinforced the OCs position, or would it be incredibly contrived? Would it be believable if Shepard's CO sent them there deliberately (as motivation to hurry the hell up) or not?

Good timing. I had just read about some tips in a writing suggestions book that was talking about this kind of thing.

In real life, coincidences happen all the time, and often is accepted without question. In fiction, coincidences are much less expected, as readers prefer to follow the logical progression of events. Case in point: the sudden appearance of Star Child on the Citadel in the last ten minutes. "What? Insane AI that looks like the kid in my dreams, and happens to give exposition about the exact nature of what will happen after I choose these brightly coloured lights? WHAT?"

Of course, this is not a rule, but just a suggestion. Some writers can pull it off really well, while others can't. Dostoevsky's writing is full of coincidences, mostly because his life was majorly like that too

Anyways, I think it would be believable if Shepard's CO sent them on purpose if he knew about them. Cause and effect. OCs radio for help. CO hears it. Sends Shepard off. Simple as that.

Or if you want, you could show them heading towards each other without being aware of it. You might get accidental friendly fire that way, but it could work too.

Modifié par Icyflare, 04 juillet 2012 - 06:29 .

[lillitheris]

dpMeggers wrote...

A question about contrivance and coincidence.

Without giving too much away, I'm working on my plans for chapters 13-however many it takes to finish of Conversation, and I'm sitting in the second chapter of the Blitz (which we know Shepard was involved in). Now I have OCs living on Elysium so they're also fighting.

My question: would it feel like coincidence if Shepard's squad reinforced the OCs position, or would it be incredibly contrived? Would it be believable if Shepard's CO sent them there deliberately (as motivation to hurry the hell up) or not?

I’m not sure one instance would be — I think it would probably come across more as creating a touch point to the games. Just make sure that Shepard doesn’t suddenly realize your OC is, like, totally the most awesomest person ever. The more cursory you can make it, the safer you are.

It’s a tricky balance, though, and even really skilled writers can stumble into it (I’m not trying to imply that you’re not skilled ). As an example, DE3 just went knee-deep in contrivance — I feel, anyway.

[lillitheris]

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

I will say, though, I have noticed a massive jump in reviews since the new system was implemented. Nova et Vetera averages 7-10 / chapter. Forever As One is a bit of an anomaly but I *think* it was published entirely after the new system and its 2 chapters have garnered more comments than my 3 other one shots put together.

For NoV, at least, my writing style / the content of the story certainly hasn't changed, so *shrug* I'm putting it down to the new system.

Interesting! I think I might attribute it in large part to being a one-shot and fulfilling a (clearly) very deep need in much of the fan base Perhaps that has also enticed some new readers to N&V?

I only get 3-4 per chapter regularly, anyway, so it is a little harder to make judgments based on that. That said, perhaps it indeed is facilitating as intended… I just wish the UI were better.

Modifié par lillitheris, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:07 .

[dpMeggers]

lillitheris wrote...

dpMeggers wrote...

A question about contrivance and coincidence.

Without giving too much away, I'm working on my plans for chapters 13-however many it takes to finish of Conversation, and I'm sitting in the second chapter of the Blitz (which we know Shepard was involved in). Now I have OCs living on Elysium so they're also fighting.

My question: would it feel like coincidence if Shepard's squad reinforced the OCs position, or would it be incredibly contrived? Would it be believable if Shepard's CO sent them there deliberately (as motivation to hurry the hell up) or not?

I’m not sure one instance would be — I think it would probably come across more as creating a touch point to the games. Just make sure that Shepard doesn’t suddenly realize your OC is, like, totally the most awesomest person ever. The more cursory you can make it, the safer you are.

It’s a tricky balance, though, and even really skilled writers can stumble into it (I’m not trying to imply that you’re not skilled ). As an example, DE3 just went knee-deep in contrivance — I feel, anyway.

Re: bolded. Ha, no. I mean he thinks they're pretty cool, in a familial sort of way, but he's not in love with them or anything. I probably should have mentionned that the OC is someone Shep & some of the squad already know, which is why I was concerned about contrivance. However I already established that the CO knows that Shep knows people on the ground, hence the possibility of motivation. 

Thanks for the help everyone.

[lillitheris]

hot_heart wrote...

I would leave the Romance one alone, as I get the impression it's more for people who want the relationship to be the focus while everything else is just background. Not exactly slashfics but something like that. If a romance develops as it goes, that's just standard adventure stuff.

Someone mentioned the same thing (Yoshiyuki Ly, maybe?), and I think I might agree… I’ve classified “Unity” as sci-fi/romance, because that’s what it is, a story about a romance in a sci-fi setting; but (at this point) the romance is exactly that, rather than smut. It might create a perception problem.

Sci-fi/drama (or even /adventure) might be a safer bet in many cases.

[noxiuniversitas1]

lillitheris wrote...
Interesting! I think I might attribute it in large part to being a one-shot and fulfilling a (clearly) very deep need in much of the fan base Perhaps that has also enticed some new readers to N&V?

I only get 3-4 per chapter regularly, anyway, so it is a little harder to make judgments based on that. That said, perhaps it indeed is facilitating as intended… I just wish the UI were better.

Hrmm, interesting theory. I doubt it, though, as reader numbers are roughly the same as ever (and in fact, I've gone out of my way to tell FAO readers who PM me saying they're thinking of checking out NoV that the stories are vastly different, and that it probably won't be to their tastes).

Also, the reviewers are names that I recognise from very early [Story +] / [Author +] alerts. Can't say for sure about the guest reviews, but then again there've only been a handful of them.

@Drussius

Tags - don't really matter, IMO. I don't even know whether anyone searches by tags, but if you want to be on the safe side, I'd go for Sci-Fi and Drama or Adventure. I tend to stick with Romance and Drama / Friendship / Humour / Hurt&Comfort depending on the nature of the story. Romance is always there because Shep / Liara's relationship tends to figure very strongly in my stories.

Summary - hrrmm yeah, it kinda needs to pull people in (I'm terrible at them). Then again, it can be a fluid, changing thing. I know an author who changes his summary every time a new chapter is published. NoV has had its summary changed 2 - 3 times, and I sometimes also change the one-shot summaries with an "update" disclaimer. I'd say, go with the premise of the story you have in your head right now; if it changes, you can always change the summary.

Title - if you know the general direction your story is taking, I'd stick with that. I name all my chapters after they're written, but most of my one-shots were titled before the first 10 words were on the page. *Shrug* it might help you keep your focus as you write; think of it that way

Hope that was at least a little helpful for you!

[fluffywalrus]

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

Tags - don't really matter, IMO. I don't even know whether anyone searches by tags, but if you want to be on the safe side, I'd go for Sci-Fi and Drama or Adventure. I tend to stick with Romance and Drama / Friendship / Humour / Hurt&Comfort depending on the nature of the story. Romance is always there because Shep / Liara's relationship tends to figure very strongly in my stories.

I search tags when I'm looking for funny fanfics. And to pique my curiosity, over whether someone has ever made a Blasto and Aethyta fic (or Blasto and Anyone fic....sadly, there are none)
Though genre-tags are kind of useless to search with. I'll take a peek at tags when I'm about to click on a fanfic that seems interesting, but it's just to help fill out what my expectations should be. That's it.

[MidnightRaith]

Drussius wrote...

While I am not putting up the first part of my story just yet, I'm getting close to the point where I will be comfortable publishing Chapter One, since I am midway through writing Chapter Four. However, I was starting to think about how I would characterize my story, and was looking for some input. I'm not even sure what is involved on FF.net, whether you have to write up a plot summary or just choose some tags for their search engine or both, but a few questions:

How do you decide when you first start publishing a story what you will choose for categories into which it fits? For example, I've sort of had the idea that two of my characters might eventually develop a romantic relationship. However, it is unlikely to become a central focus of the story and thus far, after three and a half chapters, there is no hint of it. But if I do decide to include a romantic angle, would I need to classify it as a romance? Would it be right to do so if the romance will not be the central focus of the story? In what sort of plot would you classify the story with the "Hurt/Comfort" flag I see in some stories? And so forth.

So I'm just wondering at the thought process that comes into play when my fellow writers start publishing a story. I imagine it's less of an issue with one-shots, but for longer stories, do you operate on the basis of the long-term content you intend for the story? And do you ever find yourself needing to change the category in which you classify a story because the plot turns in an unintended direction?

Edit: Side note... I've never named a story before finishing it. It's usually the last thing I do. Has anyone ever named their story with one idea in mind and then found that by the end the title no longer fits?

I don't actually bother with genre tags about 80% of the time. Mostly because there are a lot of people on that site that don't put much thought into them, so they don't narrow fics down adequately. However, to answer your question, don't put a Romance tag if the fic isn't primarily about a romance. If it's about the plot, with a romance on the side, I'd put something like Adventure or Drama or Sci-fi and either let the reader know that there are plans for a romance either in the summary with a Shepardxcharacter tag or do in the author's note.

The summary itself can be used nicely for tags as well. For instance, I put Liara and Shepard's names in my summary despite their already having the tags on the story just so my fic will come up in a basic search when the reader uses those terms. Other people put AU as a tag for an alternate universe or they tag the romance pairing and many other things. On a side note about summaries, please people, don't ever put that you suck at summaries in your summary. That is a sure fire way to insure that I won't read the fic because that just looks tacky. It's just a pet peeve of mine and I wish people wouldn't psyche themselves out too much about it. Just put a few sentences about the story, it doesn't have to be nobel prize winning. (This isn't really advice towards you, Drussius, I just went on a bit of a tangent there....)

Anyway, Hurt/Comfort stories are supposed to be about a character feeling hurt and another comforting them. Whether that's in grief or something other way one can hurt their feelings. I say supposed to because about 70% of people that use this tag forget about the Comfort part and just write a grimdark tragedy. There are the Angst and Tragedy tags that suit their needs. The tags and summary and title can be changed for a story whenever you like. If you feel that something no longer describes the fic, then you're free to change it. In the case of the title, I'd put the previous title in your summary for a few weeks to make sure people have gotten the memo on the change.

[MrStoob]

lillitheris wrote...

It’s Auntie Lil’s Colorful Chart Story Time!

[lillitheris]

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
Interesting! I think I might attribute it in large part to being a one-shot and fulfilling a (clearly) very deep need in much of the fan base Perhaps that has also enticed some new readers to N&V?

I only get 3-4 per chapter regularly, anyway, so it is a little harder to make judgments based on that. That said, perhaps it indeed is facilitating as intended… I just wish the UI were better.

Hrmm, interesting theory. I doubt it, though, as reader numbers are roughly the same as ever (and in fact, I've gone out of my way to tell FAO readers who PM me saying they're thinking of checking out NoV that the stories are vastly different, and that it probably won't be to their tastes).

Also, the reviewers are names that I recognise from very early [Story +] / [Author +] alerts. Can't say for sure about the guest reviews, but then again there've only been a handful of them.

Interesting, perhaps merely a floodgate thing? Here’s hoping it manifests more broadly, in any case.

[noxiuniversitas1]

fluffywalrus wrote...
And to pique my curiosity, over whether someone has ever made a Blasto and Aethyta fic (or Blasto and Anyone fic....sadly, there are none)

Oh my God, you never fail to make me giggle, m'dear. Thank heavens the other half is in the shower, or else I'd be getting weird looks.
And just for you I might attempt one... maybe after an especially harrowing one-shot / NoV chapter

Modifié par noxiuniversitas1, 04 juillet 2012 - 10:26 .

[lillitheris]

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

fluffywalrus wrote...
And to pique my curiosity, over whether someone has ever made a Blasto and Aethyta fic (or Blasto and Anyone fic....sadly, there are none)

Oh my God, you never fail to make me giggle, m'dear. Thank heavens the other half is in the shower, or else I'd be getting weird looks.
And just for you I might attempt one... maybe after an especially harrowing one-shot / NoV chapter

Hm, wait, Blasto, or the actor who plays Blasto?

…Or…Last Action Hero cross-over?

[LanceSolous13]

So, although 4th of July festivities have me extremly distracted at the moment, I've been thinking about my framing device for telling Shepard's story. At first, I was going to have EDI or Liara bring out files about Shepard's life and look though them, but I couldn't find a good enough reason for them to do that without it feeling a bit forced. After that, I considered a news Article idea, complete with Kalessia Al-Jilannie getting to do the article while Allers was, as Javik says, thrown out the airlock, but that also felt a bit forced.

Now, I have an even better idea. Shepard's Final Message, including the story of his life, will have been recorded on a greybox from the night before the Cerberus Base Attack. So, far, It doesn't feel forced at all.

[fainmaca]

@Lance: If it feels good, go with it. That's the best way to get something written.

In other news, this final fight of the mission is taking a crap-load of time to write. So far this evening, I've listened to about 5 hours of Two Steps From Hell, watched a movie, read 100 pages of a book, and only progressed by maybe two Word Document pages. I've gotta stop getting distracted.

[LanceSolous13]

Oh god. I know the feeling. "Hey, I'm just going to play a mission of Mass Effect 3 and get myself in the mindset for writing this story." "Wait, Since when did the sun come up?" *facepalm*

Next time I need to do research, I'm putting it on Narrative mode and not Insanity.

[fluffywalrus]

lillitheris wrote...

noxiuniversitas1 wrote...

fluffywalrus wrote...
And to pique my curiosity, over whether someone has ever made a Blasto and Aethyta fic (or Blasto and Anyone fic....sadly, there are none)

Oh my God, you never fail to make me giggle, m'dear. Thank heavens the other half is in the shower, or else I'd be getting weird looks.
And just for you I might attempt one... maybe after an especially harrowing one-shot / NoV chapter

Hm, wait, Blasto, or the actor who plays Blasto?

…Or…Last Action Hero cross-over?

Definitely Blasto. Last Action Hero plotline would be a neat idea, for sure. There are so many possibilties with Blasto, the only limit is yourself.

Just, after the Mass Effect 2 and 3 audio clips of Blasto movies, I can't shake the urge to write or read more Blasto-related things. I would pay Bioware cash money for Blasto-related DLC

Edit: made a bunch of spelling mistakes in my excitement over Blasto story ideas

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 04 juillet 2012 - 10:48 .

[hot_heart]

Finished my Jack/Miranda one-shot. Would very much appreciate it if you guys could take a look.

[fainmaca]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Oh god. I know the feeling. "Hey, I'm just going to play a mission of Mass Effect 3 and get myself in the mindset for writing this story." "Wait, Since when did the sun come up?" *facepalm*

Next time I need to do research, I'm putting it on Narrative mode and not Insanity.

You still research using ME3? I've long since disregarded that aspect of the canon.
...
...
...
I still think my All-Thresher is bigger than Bioware's.
...
...
...
That factoid sounded a lot weirder than I meant for it to be.