226 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Ship upgrades by Cybertechs are the best available in the game, I believe.And the upconing 1.3 will have crafting adds. For example from the recent Q&A:

Ixum: Daniel Erickson said in his interview that there will be no new gear sets in Game Update 1.3. Does this mean there will not be any new orange gear as well?

Daniel: Although there are no new gear sets, the addition of Adaptive Gear opens up a range of new options for characters, especially those wearing medium and heavy armor. Now any of the social gear sets can be used by any class and they will automatically change stats to be the correct armor level. With the addition of the Augment Tables, players can additionally take that social gear and get Augment slots added that will make it competitive with any gear in the game—once the right mods and augments are gathered, of course.

[Gotholhorakh]

This is very bad indeed, and I wish everyone affected the best of luck.

That is all.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 27 mai 2012 - 10:26 .

[termokanden]

Elhanan wrote...

I do get the cost factor, as I am now unemployed, and all my time is gifted. But F2P is not for me; am hoping for something else rather than micro-transactions. So for 50 cents a day, I currently have something else to occupy my time, as well as NWN1. Seeing as I am used to spending $2.50 per day on Diet Coke when I was working, I am OK with it for now.

Completely agree with this.If you're subscribing to one MMO, it's not exactly expensive. Compared to the amount of time you spend playing, it's ridiculously cheap.

As for F2P, I just remember how LotROs F2P model ruined the game for me.. There you could for example spend money on permanent stats boosts once (which any serious player will do for every character). This means you don't really freely create a new character that is equally powerful. Of course then you can buy stuff like raiding supplies too, which undoubtedly some people will do if they didn't have the time to grind up some on their own.

It's clever, but it also means you'll be thinking of money when you think about how you play the game. This means I am reluctant to even play it, and it also means I won't be able to "escape" while playing.

[deuce985]

That's terrible. I hope all those people rebound for their families. I genuinely liked SWTOR in beta. Not many MMOs hold my interest. WoW is practically the only one I was able to play on a extended sub. SWTOR reminded me a lot of WoW but did some things better.  Honestly, if I was to sub to a MMO right now, it would either be SWTOR or WoW. I think those are the two best on the market. I tried Rift for one month and couldn't get into it. Guild Wars 2 looks interesting but I do not tend to like asian MMOs and their interactions with western communities.

I don't want to see SWTOR fail because it dents Bioware finacially and that's never a good thing.

Modifié par deuce985, 28 mai 2012 - 02:00 .

[Neo DrKefka]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 28 mai 2012 - 06:03 .

[Rockworm503]

termokanden wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I do get the cost factor, as I am now unemployed, and all my time is gifted. But F2P is not for me; am hoping for something else rather than micro-transactions. So for 50 cents a day, I currently have something else to occupy my time, as well as NWN1. Seeing as I am used to spending $2.50 per day on Diet Coke when I was working, I am OK with it for now.

Completely agree with this.If you're subscribing to one MMO, it's not exactly expensive. Compared to the amount of time you spend playing, it's ridiculously cheap.

As for F2P, I just remember how LotROs F2P model ruined the game for me.. There you could for example spend money on permanent stats boosts once (which any serious player will do for every character). This means you don't really freely create a new character that is equally powerful. Of course then you can buy stuff like raiding supplies too, which undoubtedly some people will do if they didn't have the time to grind up some on their own.

It's clever, but it also means you'll be thinking of money when you think about how you play the game. This means I am reluctant to even play it, and it also means I won't be able to "escape" while playing.

I don't talk about pay to win when I talk about F2P.  There are a couple games coming out that wont sell anything that you need.  Cosmetic junk is all their selling and thats fine.  

[Elhanan]

Rockworm503 wrote...

I don't talk about pay to win when I talk about F2P.  There are a couple games coming out that wont sell anything that you need.  Cosmetic junk is all their selling and thats fine.  

There are other business models that I have read of that generate interest, but F2P is not one of them for me.

Hopefully, all those dismissed will land somehere desired soon.

[Sajji]

I don't think its going to stop here. I honestly believe at this juncture BioWare has completely alienated so many fans with DAII and especially ME3 that the entire company is about to experience massive problems.

No longer will reputation and past games earn them as much sales.

[Elhanan]

Sajji wrote...

I don't think its going to stop here. I honestly believe at this juncture BioWare has completely alienated so many fans with DAII and especially ME3 that the entire company is about to experience massive problems.

No longer will reputation and past games earn them as much sales.

Sorry, but there are those like myself that liked such projects (ie; DA2), and simply do not care about the vocal screaming of entitled players demanding changes.

Personally, I would end the Forums, and keep on making the games as one deems fit.

Modifié par Elhanan, 29 mai 2012 - 12:30 .

[gwenhilde]

Wonder what Pachter has to say now?

[Sajji]

I find the notion of "entitled gamers" extremely humorous. By default, it infers developers and publishers are entitled to consumer money.

[Ninja Stan]

Sajji wrote...

I find the notion of "entitled gamers" extremely humorous. By default, it infers developers and publishers are entitled to consumer money.

No, the notion of "commerce" nicely describes the relationship between devs/pubs and consumer money. Some of the BSN threats, personal attacks, conspiracy theories, whinging, calls for firing, and selfishness that we've seen after some game releases do meet the definition of "gamer entitlement" pretty well. Not saying that all complaints are entitlement, and not saying that you're not allowed to criticize or discuss what you don't like, but there are people that go [i]way[/]i over the line because they feel entitled to a perfect game that must cater precisely to their tastes just because they spent money on it. Rather than the reality of commerce, which is generally that someone produces something and advertises it, and a consumer chooses whether to buy it or not, perfection and catering to tastes not guaranteed.

Some people believe that "I didn't like it" and "the game is broken" and "you made it wrong" are the same thing.

[bEVEsthda]

Ninja Stan wrote...
Some people believe that "I didn't like it" and "the game is broken" and "you made it wrong" are the same thing.

So you don't think they might think all three things apply? At the same time? That would seem a perfectly possible alternative interpretion, to me.

Edit. I have no critique against TOR, other than it's not unique enough to carve a bigger slice.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 28 mai 2012 - 11:21 .

[Maria Caliban]

It's unfortunate this happened. Between that and 38 Studios, it's looking to be a bad year for game developers.

Blastback wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Who is Busomjack and Turnip Root?

Same person.  Busomjack is a poster who is known for being a troll.  He likes to create Mass Effect threads saying that Femshep should be weaker than Mshep, and instead of intimidating opponents renegade female shepard should seduce them.  And he's gotten banned for accusing all PC gamers for being pirates.  Amoung other things.  He's had other accounts all of which have some vegetable themed name, and the same avatar.  And he's not very subtle.

I believe he also started thread about meeting his wife at Comic Con and naming their baby girl Leliana.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 28 mai 2012 - 10:17 .

[termokanden]

I never really liked all this entitlement talk. I'll label the outrageous demands and threats as childish and selfish.

However, I believe some (note: I said some, not all) of the bad behavior exhibited by customers is a reflection of the treatment they get after buying products. Sometimes we're just struggling getting the stuff to work while the companies refuse to even address widely known and quite disastrous bugs, other times certain promises were not kept.

It's all about communication. We need to get that part right, or we'll end up like Tucker and Dale. Actually they did alright in the end. Forget this paragraph!

[Morroian]

Sajji wrote...

I find the notion of "entitled gamers" extremely humorous. By default, it infers developers and publishers are entitled to consumer money.

That doesn't follow at all.

[FieryDove]

I hope ToR bounces back and maybe can rehire some workers lost. I wanted to play the game for a long time, but due to technical issues (repair loop) I could not afford it.

It does have other issues some I think will be addressed in time, light servers/server merge, most crafting useless, more robust pvp etc. Some may never be.

With the CEO of EA quoted for saying ToR is more important than "golf" leaves a bad impression and its not a project EA really cares much about.

Some humor...um that's still allowed here right?

[termokanden]

Don't get me wrong by the way. I don't want TOR to fail. Quite the opposite. But I don't have my hopes up.

Modifié par termokanden, 28 mai 2012 - 11:00 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Skelter192 wrote...

Unless if Everquest 2 counts as a themepark not very sure. EQ2 had decent crafting and that's what dissapointed me about TOR. Daniel Erickson said crafters would be able to make some of the best stuff on the entire server and that's just not true. Pvp gear with mods bought with commendations are much better than anything else.

You are wrong. The best gear available is crafted orange gear with augment slots.

That said, I know I certainly feel sorry for those affected by the layoffs. I hope they all find jobs soon.

[Chromie]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
You are wrong. The best gear available is crafted orange gear with augment slots.

Well in 1.3 you can just craft Augment kits so crafted gear won't be the best.Just go to an AH buy a kit and voila.




Crafting is useless in TOR. Any use it has is limited to a short time after a select patch, until the "Raiders > everyone" mentality kicks in again among devs and they make sure crafting has no use at all again.

In order to make crafters not useless they'd have to adjust the schems so what we make is actually useful for the endgame, and not just for leveling alts.

Armormech/synthweave: As it is crafted armor won't even be good for companions, they are better off with hand-down loot from raiding. The crit crafted orange shells were viable for a bit, but there are not enough schems around (without any good reason) and we can't make most of the actually nice things. PvP armor is right out - BW could have given us the recruit gear schems, but chose to make that vendor only. Rakata belt and bracers used to be BiS, but as gear progresses they are rendered useless (and can't be sold anyway). Augments are the remaining hope, but when I start an armormech I want to craft armor people use, not some gimmick.

Cybertech:  Any mods we make are useless as soon as people start dailies, and we lack some mod types still (tanks). Ship parts are about the only decent thing to sell, no one sane buys speeders at those material costs (and such limited selections). Grenades are a gimmick, but have some uses in pvp. Earpieces are rendered useless by gear progression.

Armstech: In the endgame we can crit-craft cheap oranges, one per player. That's it. Barrels are useless, people use the barrels from daily comms or loot. Augmetns help out some, but all in all you're crafting for low levels.

Artifice is a mixture of armormech/synthweave and armstech. As with the rest, any endgame products are rendered useless by loot.

Biotech - only crew skill you can actually use at endgame, since there's no looted stim/medpack/adrenal that's better, though pvpers might get by with pvp stims and medpacks, provided they spend the comms.

In order to make crafting viable BW has to stop elevating loot above all. Crafted stuff should always be around second/third best, not dead last in the gear progression but that won't happen. I'd suggest that whenever BW introduces a new tier of gear, the oldest tier gets added to the crafting schems. So we'd be crafting collumni-quality armor, mods and weapons when people start gearing up with campaign gear at least crafting would always be a great way to start raiding. Crafters get to well craft and everyone else would have easy access to gear from the AH it's not like it's hard to get gear or credits in the game.

Modifié par Skelter192, 29 mai 2012 - 12:31 .

[mousestalker]

Skelter192 wrote...
Crafting is useless in TOR. Any use it has is limited to a short time after a select patch, until the "Raiders > everyone" mentality kicks in again among devs and they make sure crafting has no use at all again.

All that time I've spent crafting amongst my alts was all for naught?

So the ability to fully equip just about every character of mine as they level and the cash I've made on GTN was illusory?

I feel so used.

Not indulging in Internet poster generated self pity, here's hoping that those who have lost their jobs move rapidly on to better ones.

[Chromie]

mousestalker wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...
Crafting is useless in TOR. Any use it has is limited to a short time after a select patch, until the "Raiders > everyone" mentality kicks in again among devs and they make sure crafting has no use at all again.

All that time I've spent crafting amongst my alts was all for naught?

So the ability to fully equip just about every character of mine as they level and the cash I've made on GTN was illusory?

Not even going to bother to read what I wrote so why quote me?

Modifié par Skelter192, 29 mai 2012 - 01:08 .

[Lakhi]

Skelter192 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...
You are wrong. The best gear available is crafted orange gear with augment slots.

Well in 1.3 you can just craft Augment kits so crafted gear won't be the best.Just go to an AH buy a kit and voila.




Crafting is useless in TOR. Any use it has is limited to a short time after a select patch, until the "Raiders > everyone" mentality kicks in again among devs and they make sure crafting has no use at all again.

In order to make crafters not useless they'd have to adjust the schems so what we make is actually useful for the endgame, and not just for leveling alts.

Armormech/synthweave: As it is crafted armor won't even be good for companions, they are better off with hand-down loot from raiding. The crit crafted orange shells were viable for a bit, but there are not enough schems around (without any good reason) and we can't make most of the actually nice things. PvP armor is right out - BW could have given us the recruit gear schems, but chose to make that vendor only. Rakata belt and bracers used to be BiS, but as gear progresses they are rendered useless (and can't be sold anyway). Augments are the remaining hope, but when I start an armormech I want to craft armor people use, not some gimmick.

Cybertech:  Any mods we make are useless as soon as people start dailies, and we lack some mod types still (tanks). Ship parts are about the only decent thing to sell, no one sane buys speeders at those material costs (and such limited selections). Grenades are a gimmick, but have some uses in pvp. Earpieces are rendered useless by gear progression.

Armstech: In the endgame we can crit-craft cheap oranges, one per player. That's it. Barrels are useless, people use the barrels from daily comms or loot. Augmetns help out some, but all in all you're crafting for low levels.

Artifice is a mixture of armormech/synthweave and armstech. As with the rest, any endgame products are rendered useless by loot.

Biotech - only crew skill you can actually use at endgame, since there's no looted stim/medpack/adrenal that's better, though pvpers might get by with pvp stims and medpacks, provided they spend the comms.

In order to make crafting viable BW has to stop elevating loot above all. Crafted stuff should always be around second/third best, not dead last in the gear progression but that won't happen. I'd suggest that whenever BW introduces a new tier of gear, the oldest tier gets added to the crafting schems. So we'd be crafting collumni-quality armor, mods and weapons when people start gearing up with campaign gear at least crafting would always be a great way to start raiding. Crafters get to well craft and everyone else would have easy access to gear from the AH it's not like it's hard to get gear or credits in the game.

I'm confused by these assertions and quite frankly your arguments make absolutely no sense. Having members in your guild at the max for every profession is vital if you want to get ahold of crit-crafted gear or better yet, reversed engineered enhancements/mods (IE Adept 26 mods). All I see is someone whining that they have to play for more than 20 minutes a day to gain access to what they need to fully optimize their crafting experience (be that PvP or raiding).


But what the hell, I'll address your points.

Armormech/synthweave: 

As it is crafted armor won't even be good for companions, they are better off with hand-down loot from raiding. The crit crafted orange shells were viable for a bit, but there are not enough schems around (without any good reason) and we can't make most of the actually nice things. PvP armor is right out - BW could have given us the recruit gear schems, but chose to make that vendor only. Rakata belt and bracers used to be BiS, but as gear progresses they are rendered useless (and can't be sold anyway). Augments are the remaining hope, but when I start an armormech I want to craft armor people use, not some gimmick.

This is wrong on so many levels. Recruit gear is vendor only for several reasons, namely ease of access for new players though there is the element of keeping a gate of entry for new 50s so that they have time to adapt into their role. Crafted PvP gear does not have mods in it due to the sheer fact that it would remove the necessity of the grind for BM gear (which isn't that bad now).

As for your other point. The rakata belt and bracer were only ever BiS for assassins, atm a belt/bracer with a rakata armoring and a good mod is better than even the campaign belt for a lot of classes even now. You have to realize that with armormech you can reverse engineer drops from inside the raid (including campaign pieces and black hole drops) and craft those and potentially crit craft them. Is it an aesthetic perk? Yes, but that doesn't entirely negate the need for it. People will always want crit-crafted gear, so it's moot to assume that you won't be able to make a profit off of it.

Cybertech:

 
Any mods we make are useless as soon as people start dailies, and we lack some mod types still (tanks). Ship parts are about the only decent thing to sell, no one sane buys speeders at those material costs (and such limited selections). Grenades are a gimmick, but have some uses in pvp. Earpieces are rendered useless by gear progression. 

 

You can reverse engineer mods that are in high demand or use them for optimization. There are also a lot of earpieces that you can craft once you've obtained them via progression (MK-IV pummeler gear, for instance, drops off the nightmare pilgrim and can be RE-ED and crafted). 

Armstech:  

In the endgame we can crit-craft cheap oranges, one per player. That's it. Barrels are useless, people use the barrels from daily comms or loot. Augmetns help out some, but all in all you're crafting for low levels.

Again, you can reverse engineer barrels from gear drops and make a huge profit off of selling them on the GTN. There are also advanced overkill augment 25s that you can craft if you get lucky and manage to reverse engineer one. Those sell for a TON and are amazing stat optimizers.

Artifice: 

Artifice can reverse engineer enhancements which is VITAL for progression and gear optimization (having someone with adept 26 enhancements instead of the vanilla gear makes a huge stat difference). You can also crit-craft campaign relics (it's been confirmed, with a VERY low crit chance). Throw in crit crafted sabers and you have a VERY important profession.

 
Biotech - (You mean biochem?)

only crew skill you can actually use at endgame, since there's no looted stim/medpack/adrenal that's better, though pvpers might get by with pvp stims and medpacks, provided they spend the comms.

Biochem's been on a long journey with bioware. It was at one point THE profession to go to due to how strong rakata medpacks were relative to non-exotech ones and how much better the stims and adrenals were. While I agree that it's very useful for a raider, a good guild will have a biochem crafter with exotech stims to loan out for their peers. You can also crit-craft implants (some of which, again, only drop off bosses).

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

I pray to the Emperor of Mankind that SWTOR shall enjoy great success, and that it shall be glorious.

[Rockworm503]

Elhanan wrote...

Sajji wrote...

I don't think its going to stop here. I honestly believe at this juncture BioWare has completely alienated so many fans with DAII and especially ME3 that the entire company is about to experience massive problems.

No longer will reputation and past games earn them as much sales.

Sorry, but there are those like myself that liked such projects (ie; DA2), and simply do not care about the vocal screaming of entitled players demanding changes.

Personally, I would end the Forums, and keep on making the games as one deems fit.

I love how "customers are always right" have now become "entitled crybabys"

Modifié par Rockworm503, 29 mai 2012 - 02:41 .