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EA, BioWare announce Star Wars: The Old Republic staff layoffs


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#101
Elhanan

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Rockworm503 wrote...

and plus those wouldn't even be needed in a real single player.
But a better storyline usually is


Stories are the reason I am still playing. While the Sith Inquisitor tale was my first, and the more Epic of the three I have seen past 20th, both Trooper and the BH Merc storylines have been a great deal of fun, and have offered a few surprises now and again.

Recently, in one of the brief planetary aside treks one makes, I was fairly certain that I would be walking into a trap. Instead, the ones I thought were setting the ambush were themselves killed, and I was defending myself against those assassins.

Good stories affects some RP choices, and has me hanging in there another 3 months to see the conclusions.

#102
.458

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LTD wrote...

200 people, including entire QA team fired. Ouch.
Guess it isn't anymore up to debate wether EA views TOR a failure or not.


Sadly, you don't fire the QA team to improve things. That's called a "scapegoat". I've been around this kind of development a long time, most likely it means they were pressured on timelines and using resources that were spread too thin. Then they had to give in to cutting corners, and got blamed for what management was the driving force in.

#103
.458

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Wanted to bump this thread, and add something.

Quality is not doing something right the first time. Quality is not about getting it right, and not touching it. A long time ago, the utter practicality of the saying that quality is free was created. The author (W. Edwards Deming) kicked off the most massive technology improvement seen in the 20th century...he pretty much proved that quality is not only free, it is an ongoing process.

He stated that you have standards, and you find what doesn't fit, and fix the process...you then tighten the standards, HOPING something breaks, and then fix THOSE failures. This is a constant iteration, and never stops. For those who got rid of the QA staff, why don't you instead set standards and expect failures...then fix them as a standard way of life? Would you fly on an airline that is worried about going out of business, and so they stop maintaining their fleet? Sure, it saves money to double time between structural checks, it saves time using lower quality parts. How sustainable is that? Do the people letting go of QA want to fly on such an aircraft? Do the people letting go of QA have any stake in their own company's future?

#104
SoWutNAO

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Whatever quality is it's certainly not TOR.

That game is dead. Such a massive flop. Not a stretch to say it's the biggest flop in gaming history.

#105
Morroian

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SoWutNAO wrote...

Whatever quality is it's certainly not TOR.

That game is dead. Such a massive flop. Not a stretch to say it's the biggest flop in gaming history.

Made a profit, 2nd biggest subscription base on the market, how is that the biggest flop in gaming history?

.458 wrote...

He stated that you have standards, and you find what doesn't fit, and fix the process...you then tighten the standards, HOPING something breaks, and then fix THOSE failures. This is a constant iteration, and never stops. For those who got rid of the QA staff,

We don't know what they're doing with QA they can hardly operate without any QA at all. 

Modifié par Morroian, 04 juin 2012 - 01:20 .


#106
Persephone

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SoWutNAO wrote...

Whatever quality is it's certainly not TOR.

That game is dead. Such a massive flop. Not a stretch to say it's the biggest flop in gaming history.


LOL, I'm not a TOR fan at all but this is complete nonsense, sorry.

#107
Neo DrKefka

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Persephone wrote...

SoWutNAO wrote...

Whatever quality is it's certainly not TOR.

That game is dead. Such a massive flop. Not a stretch to say it's the biggest flop in gaming history.


LOL, I'm not a TOR fan at all but this is complete nonsense, sorry.


Almost all the servers are abandoned. Bioware is refusing to appease the causals but rather the very small hardcore minority. Bioware has been sticking to it's guns even after 200 with many leaders and designers laid off. Right now they have thrown us a bone by giving the causals what they want dungeon finders but it's not cross servers and it doesn't deal with elite quests which are dungeons as well.

So eventually they will do cross servers....but not before Bioware is done kicking and screaming. You can only imagine the kicking and screaming it occured when Bioware Canada which is in charge is was not allowed to moderate the forums at the SWTOR.

Bad Customer service and unwillingness to change to their new path

#108
Elhanan

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Neo DrKefka wrote...

Almost all the servers are abandoned. Bioware is refusing to appease the causals but rather the very small hardcore minority. Bioware has been sticking to it's guns even after 200 with many leaders and designers laid off. Right now they have thrown us a bone by giving the causals what they want dungeon finders but it's not cross servers and it doesn't deal with elite quests which are dungeons as well.

So eventually they will do cross servers....but not before Bioware is done kicking and screaming. You can only imagine the kicking and screaming it occured when Bioware Canada which is in charge is was not allowed to moderate the forums at the SWTOR.

Bad Customer service and unwillingness to change to their new path


Free transfers are coming this Summer - look! It is June! - for those wanting them. I plan on remaining in place, as the majority of my server appears to play fairly well with others.

And customer service has been great. And If not caving to hatred is also present, I may re-sub again!

#109
Morroian

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Neo DrKefka wrote...

Almost all the servers are abandoned.

 
Hardly.

Neo DrKefka wrote...

Bioware is refusing to appease the causals but rather the very small hardcore minority. Bioware has been sticking to it's guns even after 200 with many leaders and designers laid off.

 
Such as who? 

Neo DrKefka wrote...

Right now they have thrown us a bone by giving the causals what they want dungeon finders but it's not cross servers and it doesn't deal with elite quests which are dungeons as well.
 

  
Hard mode ops can hardly be completed with a pug group. Its hard enough doing them on normal/story mode. And its not cross server because with server transfers and the increase in allowable server populations it hopefully won't be required.

Neo DrKefka wrote...

Bad Customer service and unwillingness to change to their new path

I don't think their customer service is particularly bad, they have been too slow though. Server transfers should have been done over a month ago and the functionality should have been in the game from the get go. Same with ranked warzones.

You should note that I am not disputing that the game is flawed merely that it is the biggest flop in gaming history as was asserted.

Modifié par Morroian, 04 juin 2012 - 02:11 .


#110
mousestalker

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Neo DrKefka wrote...
Almost all the servers are abandoned.


That would be true if all <= thirty.

Edited to to remove much that was unworthy.

Modifié par mousestalker, 04 juin 2012 - 02:43 .


#111
Elhanan

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mousestalker wrote...

That would be true if all <= thirty.

As it stands all the servers I have characters on, and as I am an altaholic that is quite a few, are not abandoned. And by not abandoned meaning it isn't very hard for someone with a decent reputation to join a guild, join a mission or find willing vict... err recruits.

I'm not going to bother answering or replying to the rest of what you wrote as you abandoned all pretence of both credibility and rationality with your very first sentence.

As you grow older you will find that your arguments are best served by dealing only with facts and understating rather than overstates the consequences you draw from those facts. Such an approach is less dramatic. But it enhances rather than detracts from your words and you gain credibility rather than the pre-adolescent enjoyment of ranting and raving.


*APPLESAUCE to go with a post full of WIN!* Image IPB

#112
AllThatJazz

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The EU server I play on is 'light', but my guild has probably 40 members (not including alts), I can usually find someone to do Heroics with, there's always someone on the fleet to FP with and I've made a decent bunch of mates. People on the server in general are respectful, pleasant and helpful. My PvP queuing is minimal - less than 5 minutes most of the time - I think the longest it's been is about 35 minutes and that was a while ago. The class stories are fun, voice acting really good, companions (all 36 of them!!!) interesting. Am having a great time, enjoying it more than I thought I would given all the negativity I read beforehand. Will probably resub after my free gametime runs out, free time allowing. I understand that there are problems with the game, particularly with end-game content and the like, though I haven't experienced these yet since none of my chars are level 50 and I'm in no rush to get there.

To be honest, my impression isn't of a dead or dying game, but one that has some growing to do to achieve its potential - I hope it's given that chance.

#113
Elhanan

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Looking forward to the new Ship Combat Missions announced today, as well as other solo play content.

#114
Elhanan

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Here is an announcement on the 1.3 class alterations:

http://www.swtor.com...game-update-1.3

This should improve both my Republic Gunnery major, and my Mandalorian Merc!

#115
termokanden

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Interesting indeed. How's it going with scoundrels/agents? Last I looked, they were extremely mediocre. While playable, all my other characters were better.

#116
Elhanan

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termokanden wrote...

Interesting indeed. How's it going with scoundrels/agents? Last I looked, they were extremely mediocre. While playable, all my other characters were better.


These are classes I am unable to play, so I personally do not follow them much. However, take a look here for more info (1.2 was last large patch; press links to left for exact notes):

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

Also found this:


LordAshuman: Would you be able to explain the thought process behind the recent damage boost to Snipers/Gunslingers and buff/nerf prioritization in general? (Not complaining about balance, just wanting to know why them over other classes that could possible use tweaks.)

Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): The damage boosts to Snipers and Gunslingers that you're referring to was actually a targeted weapon damage boost. We found an error in the assumptions we use for the mathematical interactions between weapon damage and defense chances. Without going into the boring specifics, we found that weapon damage (especially in abilities with high costs, high cooldowns, or high activation times) could be somewhat underappreciated. When we change our assumptions and come up with a new model like in this situation, we have two diametrically opposed goals: 1) to propagate all necessary changes to the game so that it's using our most recent math, which opposes the second goal 2) maintaining balance without blindly following our math. We altered the abilities that would pick up a significant enough change to be worth making without having a negative effect on the balance of the game. The list you're referring to is the result.

class change prioritization is a bigger topic. Without getting too long-winded on the subject, what we're aiming to do with any class change is get a class or spec as close to target as we can. These "targets" are objective math-based goals that apply identically to all like-roles. By that I mean that all DPS specs have the same target because they are all the same role: damage dealing. Tank roles have their own targets, and healing roles have their own targets. When someone is off target (too high or too low), we try to find non-invasive ways of bringing them closer to target. We don't try to bring classes closer to target because we're mean - we do it because the global game math assumes everyone hits their target. When someone doesn't hit their target, it has an adverse effect on the game at large. And since rebalancing the entire game to accommodate an outlying spec is completely infeasible, we address the outlying performers with class changes, individually, as appropriate. It's an ongoing experience that we'll never be done with, so prioritization is based on what we feel is the most egregious in any given patch. How we identify outliers and how we determine which is the most egregious is... another bigger topic.

Modifié par Elhanan, 08 juin 2012 - 09:20 .


#117
LTD

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.458 wrote...

LTD wrote...

200 people, including entire QA team fired. Ouch.
Guess it isn't anymore up to debate wether EA views TOR a failure or not.


Sadly, you don't fire the QA team to improve things. That's called a "scapegoat". I've been around this kind of development a long time, most likely it means they were pressured on timelines and using resources that were spread too thin. Then they had to give in to cutting corners, and got blamed for what management was the driving force in.


Oh no no, that wasn't what I was trying to imply at all. I have no reason to believe people fired were somehow chiefly responsible of the issues TOR has existing.  I'm not sure if you are implying this is what i was implying but just in case you were, figured this clarification of implication was in order=]

Quality is not doing something right the first time. Quality is not
about getting it right, and not touching it. A long time ago, the utter
practicality of the saying that quality is free was created

Quality is not copying questing mechanics and UI of Vanilla WoW and believing MMO crowds re-ignite their love of Vanilla because of talking heads and Star Wars.

If you release an MMORPG so firmly in same stable with WoW...you REALLY have to take a look at WoW's good parts and either copy or improve on them...
...Well, it kinda feels that's exactly what they did. Problem is, they did it in 2006 and never bothered to go for an  update.

Modifié par LTD, 09 juin 2012 - 07:20 .


#118
termokanden

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Ah it seems the class is still pretty poor. I played a scoundrel AND an operative just because I liked the playstyle. Only played PvE as I loathe PvP. But the state the class was in when I left was just horrible. It seems they buffed one ability slightly and nerfed another since then. So.. still unbalanced.

I stopped playing ToR for a couple of reasons. But the PvP whining affecting PvE balance is a big one. They seem to want to copy both the bad and the good ideas from WoW.

#119
Elhanan

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Only know that when the occasional Agent or Smuggler passes by and grants me a class buff, things are sweeter for the next hour unless I die first.

I play for the stories, and now have a Sorcerer at 50th, and Trooper and Bounty Hunter both at 46th due to alternating play. But the need for Cover prevents me from seeking your storylines out much, though I have seen both origins and conclusions. The Agent looks esp sweet.

Don't have a need to compare my numbers against others; don't roam into PvP much. I enjoy it when something is boosted, and frown a little if something gets nerfed. But I still find it challenging which is a key factor in why I still am subscribed. And the Free To 15th thing starting next month should draw in even more.

#120
SalsaDMA

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Elhanan wrote...

And customer service has been great. And If not caving to hatred is also present, I may re-sub again!


And pigs can fly...

Seriously, customer service of ToR was the worst I EVER tried in my days of computing, and that says alot.

Bugged product that support refused to acknowledge (confirmed issues list was surprsiginly clean compared what anyone playing the game encountered of bugs)

Replies from Support that sometimes were talking about things you didn't even ask about, or asked you to try stuff you had specifically written in the query that you had already tried.

A never ending stream of 'forwards' when trying to follow up on an issue. It was never the same person that answered 2 times in a row, even when responding to a response, which often gave you identical answers in succession because reading comprehension seemed a lost talent at support.

And the kicker that made sure I would NEVER EVER want a credit card attached to anything by EA again: They locked me out of accessing my acount due to a bug that asked me a 'security question' I had never set, and refused to reset it so I could access the account. Ofc, if I wanted to cancel my account, I needed access to it, so they were setting themselves up for a nice attempt of forced payment for something they weren't giving me. Only after making several threats of legal persecution if they tried to pull that stunt (after I got tired of them lept claiming I should just access my account if I wanted to cancel) did someone at their end wisen enough up to delete my creditcard info from their database so their attempted withdrawal failed.

Great customer service?

In your dreams.

#121
Elhanan

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SalsaDMA wrote...

And pigs can fly...

Seriously, customer service of ToR was the worst I EVER tried in my days of computing, and that says alot.

Bugged product that support refused to acknowledge (confirmed issues list was surprsiginly clean compared what anyone playing the game encountered of bugs)

Replies from Support that sometimes were talking about things you didn't even ask about, or asked you to try stuff you had specifically written in the query that you had already tried.

A never ending stream of 'forwards' when trying to follow up on an issue. It was never the same person that answered 2 times in a row, even when responding to a response, which often gave you identical answers in succession because reading comprehension seemed a lost talent at support.

And the kicker that made sure I would NEVER EVER want a credit card attached to anything by EA again: They locked me out of accessing my acount due to a bug that asked me a 'security question' I had never set, and refused to reset it so I could access the account. Ofc, if I wanted to cancel my account, I needed access to it, so they were setting themselves up for a nice attempt of forced payment for something they weren't giving me. Only after making several threats of legal persecution if they tried to pull that stunt (after I got tired of them lept claiming I should just access my account if I wanted to cancel) did someone at their end wisen enough up to delete my creditcard info from their database so their attempted withdrawal failed.

Great customer service?

In your dreams.



Shhhh; might wake me up then, becaue CS has been very helpful. insightful, and extraordinarily swift. They have not been condescending when I know my Tech savvy is poor, and have been willing to guide me through a few issues; IG and out of it, and some problems greater than others. 

Then again, perhaps I treat them with sim respect, as opposed to the apparent words and actions of others; food for thougfht....

Image IPB

Modifié par Elhanan, 09 juin 2012 - 09:01 .


#122
Rockworm503

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SalsaDMA wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

And customer service has been great. And If not caving to hatred is also present, I may re-sub again!


And pigs can fly...

Seriously, customer service of ToR was the worst I EVER tried in my days of computing, and that says alot.

Bugged product that support refused to acknowledge (confirmed issues list was surprsiginly clean compared what anyone playing the game encountered of bugs)

Replies from Support that sometimes were talking about things you didn't even ask about, or asked you to try stuff you had specifically written in the query that you had already tried.

A never ending stream of 'forwards' when trying to follow up on an issue. It was never the same person that answered 2 times in a row, even when responding to a response, which often gave you identical answers in succession because reading comprehension seemed a lost talent at support.

And the kicker that made sure I would NEVER EVER want a credit card attached to anything by EA again: They locked me out of accessing my acount due to a bug that asked me a 'security question' I had never set, and refused to reset it so I could access the account. Ofc, if I wanted to cancel my account, I needed access to it, so they were setting themselves up for a nice attempt of forced payment for something they weren't giving me. Only after making several threats of legal persecution if they tried to pull that stunt (after I got tired of them lept claiming I should just access my account if I wanted to cancel) did someone at their end wisen enough up to delete my creditcard info from their database so their attempted withdrawal failed.

Great customer service?

In your dreams.



Your wasting your time.  Elanhan would defend Bioware if they threatened his family.
They probably deserved it because their just haters right *rolls eyes*

#123
Elhanan

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Rockworm503 wrote...

Your wasting your time.  Elanhan would defend Bioware if they threatened his family.
They probably deserved it because their just haters right *rolls eyes*


Dunno; cannot recall if they ever met you.... Image IPB

#124
Rockworm503

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They probably left because they were tired of you implying things about them and pretending not to.

#125
Elhanan

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Rockworm503 wrote...

They probably left because they were tired of you implying things about them and pretending not to.


More likely, playing their own Bioware games. Image IPB