242 réponses à ce sujet

[Micah3sixty]

Helios969 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

davishepard wrote...

Destroy is that option where Shepard gives the finger to his synthetics allies, destroying them along with the Reapers, and the only option where he keeps his own life intact?

Aw, yeah.

Shepard can't surive in physical form from Control or Synthesis, but that isn't proof to those being indoctrination or poor choices.  Sometimes self-sacrifice is required for the best outcome for all.  If Organics really are doomed to creating synthetics who in turn destroy organics, Control or Synthesis seem to be better options than Destroy because either Shepard will continue as the new Catalyst to call upon the Reapers to fight off rogue synthetics, or with synthesis, Synthetics will see the newly structured Organics as equals.  Those are the facts presented in Game and explained by the Catalyst and Reapers.

Yeah, if you accept what star child as truth.  I have no reason to believe the word of a psychopathic entity who sends out his genocidal forces every 50K years to wipe out all advanced civilizations in the galaxy.

Other than your own headcannon, what is presented in Game through each of the endings suggests the Catalyst told you the truth.  Edi does not appear again if you choose Destroy.  The Reapers stop their tirade in all three options just as the Catalyst described.  Organics and Synthetics gain new DNA structure in Synthesis.  While I agree the endings could have been better presented and clarified, they are what we got and the only basis for supporting our observations.

[Jamie9]

dreman9999 wrote...

Again, we never would of been fighing this war if we never touched their tech.

You heard it guys, computers have featured in wars. We would never have gotten in these wars if we'd never touched this tech. Everybody, throw away your computers.

Also, fire. We would never have gotten into so many pesky wars if we'd never discovered fire. Let's just forget about fire, shall we?

[dreman9999]

Micah3sixty wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

davishepard wrote...

Destroy is that option where Shepard gives the finger to his synthetics allies, destroying them along with the Reapers, and the only option where he keeps his own life intact?

Aw, yeah.

Shepard can't surive in physical form from Control or Synthesis, but that isn't proof to those being indoctrination or poor choices.  Sometimes self-sacrifice is required for the best outcome for all.  If Organics really are doomed to creating synthetics who in turn destroy organics, Control or Synthesis seem to be better options than Destroy because either Shepard will continue as the new Catalyst to call upon the Reapers to fight off rogue synthetics, or with synthesis, Synthetics will see the newly structured Organics as equals.  Those are the facts presented in Game and explained by the Catalyst and Reapers.

Yeah, if you accept what star child as truth.  I have no reason to believe the word of a psychopathic entity who sends out his genocidal forces every 50K years to wipe out all advanced civilizations in the galaxy.

Other than your own headcannon, what is presented in Game through each of the endings suggests the Catalyst told you the truth.  Edi does not appear again if you choose Destroy.  The Reapers stop their tirade in all three options just as the Catalyst described.  Organics and Synthetics gain new DNA structure in Synthesis.  While I agree the endings could have been better presented and clarified, they are what we got and the only basis for supporting our observations.

What proof is there that everything you saw after habinger cuts down Shepard is real?

[Shepard Wins]

xsdob wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Not indoctrinated, just visionary. Which beats cowardly every day.

Destroy path is for the masses who can't handle the burden of leadership. Fear power, fear change, live in fear.

Still indoctrinated Where is this "Shepard needs better HUSKS" signature when you need it...

Visionary. All you ever see from pro-Destroy camp is pathos arguments: catalyst is the enemy and we musn't trust him!, we can't work with him!, traitor!, indoctrinated!, look at the bad examples of what Reaper tech has done!, (and please, only the bad examples, never the good ones).

Logos? Almost never.

Indoctrinated. Name one example of Reaper Tech that brought about something good.

Thanix cannon's and EDI

They're both a product of respectively Turian and Human engineering, not Reaper Tech itself.

[dreman9999]

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Again, we never would of been fighing this war if we never touched their tech.

You heard it guys, computers have featured in wars. We would never have gotten in these wars if we'd never touched this tech. Everybody, throw away your computers.

Also, fire. We would never have gotten into so many pesky wars if we'd never discovered fire. Let's just forget about fire, shall we?

You do know I'm taking about reaper tech.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

dreman9999 wrote...


...Sure , we can fight bat with this tech but wouldwe be be fighting in the first place if we never touch the tech in the first place?

Visonary my foot. You're trusting an enemy that want to mind control everyone and turn them to paste to "help" them. 

Yes. You'd be stuck on Earth while the Reapers have you for lunch, or go the way of the drell.

And, the Catalyst is not an enemy either. Unless you like Wreav-logic. Or VS-on-Mars-logic.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Shepard Wins wrote...



Indoctrinated. Name one example of Reaper Tech that brought about something good.

I'll give you five:

Thanix cannon, the conduit, the Reaper IFF, EDI, Object Rho.

[Jamie9]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Again, we never would of been fighing this war if we never touched their tech.

You heard it guys, computers have featured in wars. We would never have gotten in these wars if we'd never touched this tech. Everybody, throw away your computers.

Also, fire. We would never have gotten into so many pesky wars if we'd never discovered fire. Let's just forget about fire, shall we?

You do know I'm taking about reaper tech.

Reaper tech is not inherently evil. Tech is always neutral. We STILL do not fully understand indoctrination. All we know is that some Reaper tech does not indoctrinate: the Mass Relays and the Citadel. I don't think we should throw it all away is all. It was just a terrible comparison.

[NvVanity]

 All of you are wrong, this ending is the greatest one.

[balance5050]

[Shepard Wins]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...



Indoctrinated. Name one example of Reaper Tech that brought about something good.

I'll give you five:

Thanix cannon, the conduit, the Reaper IFF, EDI, Object Rho.

1) Like I said, Turian engineering, not pure Reaper Tech

2) Prothean creation

3) Oh yeah that one was totally good... Got the Normandy crew kidnapped, possibly killed, and the only reason it was necessary in the first place was that it was needed to go through Omega 4 relay

4) A creation of human engineering

5) How is that good? It indoctrinated Kenson and the entire Project team

The only two good Reaper tech examples could be the Mass Relays and the Citadel, but they were, in a long run, a trap, so it isn't that obvious.

Modifié par Shepard Wins, 26 mai 2012 - 05:12 .

[Micah3sixty]

dreman9999 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...


Other than your own headcannon, what is presented in Game through each of the endings suggests the Catalyst told you the truth.  Edi does not appear again if you choose Destroy.  The Reapers stop their tirade in all three options just as the Catalyst described.  Organics and Synthetics gain new DNA structure in Synthesis.  While I agree the endings could have been better presented and clarified, they are what we got and the only basis for supporting our observations.

What proof is there that everything you saw after habinger cuts down Shepard is real?

Because that is what occurs.  We get hit by harbingers beam.  We wake up and make it to the beam.  We encounter TIM and are either killed by him, kill him, or convince him to kill himself.  We then get lifted to the Catalyst who explains how the crucible has changed him and presented new options.  We make our decision and then see a brief animation of what results due to that decision.  The only indoctrination involved in the ending is TIM controlling Shepard and Anderson, forcing Shepard to shoot Anderson.  The rest of IT is all speculation and far too reaching to think BW came up with that when that is not what appears to happen.  Just my 2 cents.  

Modifié par Micah3sixty, 26 mai 2012 - 05:13 .

[dreman9999]

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Again, we never would of been fighing this war if we never touched their tech.

You heard it guys, computers have featured in wars. We would never have gotten in these wars if we'd never touched this tech. Everybody, throw away your computers.

Also, fire. We would never have gotten into so many pesky wars if we'd never discovered fire. Let's just forget about fire, shall we?

You do know I'm taking about reaper tech.

Reaper tech is not inherently evil. Tech is always neutral. We STILL do not fully understand indoctrination. All we know is that some Reaper tech does not indoctrinate: the Mass Relays and the Citadel. I don't think we should throw it all away is all. It was just a terrible comparison.

It's no.t I never said it is evil ...But it is a way to control us...Some how you missed the fact that I'm not anti advancement. I only meant  the was should not be depedant on others for that advancemeant like the races did in ME. Did you miss the fact that the only reason why the races of the galexy are this advance because someone gave then the info and tech. Sure, all reaces worked to acheive space flight but once they advance enough they found all these achives and data from the hevens that told them everything and soon the mass relays and the citadel. And suddenly, nothing they do is of their own development, just based on this tech they found.
Did you miss the part in ME1 when Sovergin tells you that's all there to control organics development?
All this tech we got was a lure to a trap.
If we never went after the lure we would never be in this war.

What I'm say is not that we should not advance but we should of prosses all of our advancement on our own and made our own future.

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 mai 2012 - 05:19 .

[dreman9999]

Micah3sixty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...


Other than your own headcannon, what is presented in Game through each of the endings suggests the Catalyst told you the truth.  Edi does not appear again if you choose Destroy.  The Reapers stop their tirade in all three options just as the Catalyst described.  Organics and Synthetics gain new DNA structure in Synthesis.  While I agree the endings could have been better presented and clarified, they are what we got and the only basis for supporting our observations.

What proof is there that everything you saw after habinger cuts down Shepard is real?

Because that is what occurs.  We get hit by harbingers beam.  We wake up and make it to the beam.  We encounter TIM and are either killed by him, kill him, or convince him to kill himself.  We then get lifted to the Catalyst who explains how the crucible has changed him and presented new options.  We make our decision and then see a brief animation of what results due to that decision.  The only indoctrination involved in the ending is TIM controlling Shepard and Anderson, forcing Shepard to shoot Anderson.  The rest of IT is all speculation and far too reaching to think BW came up with that when that is not what appears to happen.  Just my 2 cents.  

Just because you see it does not mean it's real or it really ishappening. Many stroies and movies make plot illustration these points like Inception, the matrix, and total recall. You also facing a race of machine know to mess wit the mind as well. To say it's real because it's shown , with a race of machines that can warp perspective miss the point that you facing a race of machines that can warp perspective.

[xsdob]

balance5050 wrote...

Replace the picture with the BSN logo and you'll have a 100% accurate depiction.

[Jamie9]

dreman9999 wrote...

It's not I never said it is...But it is a way to control us...Some how you missed the fact that I'm not anti advancement. I only meant  the was should not be depedant on other for that advance meant. Did you miss the fact that the only reason why the races of the galexy are this advance because someone gave then the info and tech. Sure, all reaces worked to acheive space flight but once they advance enough they found all these achives and data from thehavens that told them everything and soon the mass relays and the citadel. And suddenly, nothing they do is of their own development, just based on this tech they find.
Did you miss the part in ME1 when Sovergin tells you that's all there to control organics development?
All this tech we got was a lure to a trap.
If we never went after the lure we would never be in this war.

What I'm say is not that we should not advance but we should of prosses all of our advancement on our own and made our own future.

I apologise if I misread you. And I would agree that using Reaper technology while Reapers are around is bad. It is 99.9% likely to result in galaxy-wide genocide. But when the Reapers are gone, there's nothing stopping us from using it.

The Geth made their own path. They upgraded themselves with Reaper code. That's what we'll do. Make our own path but using what is already available to us.

[Helios969]

Micah3sixty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...


Other than your own headcannon, what is presented in Game through each of the endings suggests the Catalyst told you the truth.  Edi does not appear again if you choose Destroy.  The Reapers stop their tirade in all three options just as the Catalyst described.  Organics and Synthetics gain new DNA structure in Synthesis.  While I agree the endings could have been better presented and clarified, they are what we got and the only basis for supporting our observations.

What proof is there that everything you saw after habinger cuts down Shepard is real?

Because that is what occurs.  We get hit by harbingers beam.  We wake up and make it to the beam.  We encounter TIM and are either killed by him, kill him, or convince him to kill himself.  We then get lifted to the Catalyst who explains how the crucible has changed him and presented new options.  We make our decision and then see a brief animation of what results due to that decision.  The only indoctrination involved in the ending is TIM controlling Shepard and Anderson, forcing Shepard to shoot Anderson.  The rest of IT is all speculation and far too reaching to think BW came up with that when that is not what appears to happen.  Just my 2 cents.  

Speculation on both accounts.  Of course, all this pointless speculation could have been avoided with an actual conclusion to the story.  A few may be satisfied with current ending, but most are not.

[xsdob]

dreman9999 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Not indoctrinated, just visionary. Which beats cowardly every day.

Destroy path is for the masses who can't handle the burden of leadership. Fear power, fear change, live in fear.

Still indoctrinated Where is this "Shepard needs better HUSKS" signature when you need it...

Visionary. All you ever see from pro-Destroy camp is pathos arguments: catalyst is the enemy and we musn't trust him!, we can't work with him!, traitor!, indoctrinated!, look at the bad examples of what Reaper tech has done!, (and please, only the bad examples, never the good ones).

Logos? Almost never.

Indoctrinated. Name one example of Reaper Tech that brought about something good.

Thanix cannon's and EDI

Again, we never would of been fighing this war if we never touched their tech.

Why does reverse engineered products from reaper tech not count?

Fine, I'll play your game, The mass relays, but only because you decided to change the rules.

[davishepard]

dreman9999 wrote...

What proof is there that everything you saw after habinger cuts down Shepard is real?

What proof do you have that everything you saw after Shepard is hit by the Beacon in Eden Prime is real?

Simple, that is no proof that it isn't. Why add a dream-like so detailed, showing off what happens after every choice? Why show the Normandy fleeing? Why show tehy landing safe in a unknown planet in all three endings?

It's real. You may not like, you may embrace that IT til the very release of EC, but you can't complain later. You just chose to believe that nothing was real.

Modifié par davishepard, 26 mai 2012 - 05:20 .

[balance5050]

xsdob wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

snip

Replace the picture with the BSN logo and you'll have a 100% accurate depiction.

Meh, the IT thread has enough hope for all of us.


 

[dreman9999]

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

It's not I never said it is...But it is a way to control us...Some how you missed the fact that I'm not anti advancement. I only meant  the was should not be depedant on other for that advance meant. Did you miss the fact that the only reason why the races of the galexy are this advance because someone gave then the info and tech. Sure, all reaces worked to acheive space flight but once they advance enough they found all these achives and data from thehavens that told them everything and soon the mass relays and the citadel. And suddenly, nothing they do is of their own development, just based on this tech they find.
Did you miss the part in ME1 when Sovergin tells you that's all there to control organics development?
All this tech we got was a lure to a trap.
If we never went after the lure we would never be in this war.

What I'm say is not that we should not advance but we should of prosses all of our advancement on our own and made our own future.

I apologise if I misread you. And I would agree that using Reaper technology while Reapers are around is bad. It is 99.9% likely to result in galaxy-wide genocide. But when the Reapers are gone, there's nothing stopping us from using it.

The Geth made their own path. They upgraded themselves with Reaper code. That's what we'll do. Make our own path but using what is already available to us.

The reapers are only gone in destroy.

[Micah3sixty]

dreman9999 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...


Other than your own headcannon, what is presented in Game through each of the endings suggests the Catalyst told you the truth.  Edi does not appear again if you choose Destroy.  The Reapers stop their tirade in all three options just as the Catalyst described.  Organics and Synthetics gain new DNA structure in Synthesis.  While I agree the endings could have been better presented and clarified, they are what we got and the only basis for supporting our observations.

What proof is there that everything you saw after habinger cuts down Shepard is real?

Because that is what occurs.  We get hit by harbingers beam.  We wake up and make it to the beam.  We encounter TIM and are either killed by him, kill him, or convince him to kill himself.  We then get lifted to the Catalyst who explains how the crucible has changed him and presented new options.  We make our decision and then see a brief animation of what results due to that decision.  The only indoctrination involved in the ending is TIM controlling Shepard and Anderson, forcing Shepard to shoot Anderson.  The rest of IT is all speculation and far too reaching to think BW came up with that when that is not what appears to happen.  Just my 2 cents.  

Just because you see it does not mean it's real or it really ishappening. Many stroies and movies make plot illustration these points like Inception, the matrix, and total recall. You also facing a race of machine know to mess wit the mind as well. To say it's real because it's shown , with a race of machines that can warp perspective miss the point that you facing a race of machines that can warp perspective.

This isn't Inception.  If it weren't real, the husks, Marauder Shields and TIM would not be able to kill you resulting in Mission Failed.  The unlimitted ammo and Anderson reaching the control panel before Shepard are more easily dismissed as poor writing or developer laziness than IT.  Nearly everything IT-ers point at to support their belief is pure speculation, personal opinion and confirmation bias.

[dreman9999]

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

What proof is there that everything you saw after habinger cuts down Shepard is real?

What proof do you have that everything you saw after Shepard is hit by the Beacon in Eden Prime is real?

Simple, that is no proof that it isn't. Why add a dream-like so detailed, showing off what happens after every choice? Why show the Normandy fleeing? Why show tehy landing safe in a unknown planet in all three endings?

It's real. You may not like, you may embrace that IT til the very release of EC, but you can't complain later. You just chose to believe that nothing was real.

Who said that the reapers had contol of what showed up in the dream? Think of it like the geth concensus where Shepard mind filled in the blanks with memory. The reaper would just be putting suggetions in the dreams to influence Shepard  but not fully control him. Really, there is not proof what is seen is  real.

[ShepnTali]

So choosing destroy, with the EC, I'm going to be a winner? *fist pump*

[dreman9999]

Micah3sixty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...


Other than your own headcannon, what is presented in Game through each of the endings suggests the Catalyst told you the truth.  Edi does not appear again if you choose Destroy.  The Reapers stop their tirade in all three options just as the Catalyst described.  Organics and Synthetics gain new DNA structure in Synthesis.  While I agree the endings could have been better presented and clarified, they are what we got and the only basis for supporting our observations.

What proof is there that everything you saw after habinger cuts down Shepard is real?

Because that is what occurs.  We get hit by harbingers beam.  We wake up and make it to the beam.  We encounter TIM and are either killed by him, kill him, or convince him to kill himself.  We then get lifted to the Catalyst who explains how the crucible has changed him and presented new options.  We make our decision and then see a brief animation of what results due to that decision.  The only indoctrination involved in the ending is TIM controlling Shepard and Anderson, forcing Shepard to shoot Anderson.  The rest of IT is all speculation and far too reaching to think BW came up with that when that is not what appears to happen.  Just my 2 cents.  

Just because you see it does not mean it's real or it really ishappening. Many stroies and movies make plot illustration these points like Inception, the matrix, and total recall. You also facing a race of machine know to mess wit the mind as well. To say it's real because it's shown , with a race of machines that can warp perspective miss the point that you facing a race of machines that can warp perspective.

This isn't Inception.  If it weren't real, the husks, Marauder Shields and TIM would not be able to kill you resulting in Mission Failed.  The unlimitted ammo and Anderson reaching the control panel before Shepard are more easily dismissed as poor writing or developer laziness than IT.  Nearly everything IT-ers point at to support their belief is pure speculation, personal opinion and confirmation bias.

The idea is to subjuget the mind. If shepard dies in the dream, that only mean his mind is subjugated.