242 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamie9]

dreman9999 wrote...
The reapers are only gone in destroy.

I flew 'em into a sun. Bye Harbinger, I wish you actually appeared in ME3.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Shepard Wins wrote...


1) Like I said, Turian engineering, not pure Reaper Tech

2) Prothean creation

3) Oh yeah that one was totally good... Got the Normandy crew kidnapped, possibly killed, and the only reason it was necessary in the first place was that it was needed to go through Omega 4 relay

4) A creation of human engineering

5) How is that good? It indoctrinated Kenson and the entire Project team

The only two good Reaper tech examples could be the Mass Relays and the Citadel, but they were, in a long run, a trap, so it isn't that obvious.

1.) Remnants of Sovereign lead to its creation. Simple: no Reaper tech, no Thanix cannon. And, one dead squadmate in ME2.

2.) Again, based off Reaper tech, used to rewrite Keepers (also Reaper tech) at the Citadel. Instrumental in this cycle's success in conquering the Reaper threat. If Protheans had a "avoid Reaper tech at all costs" attitude that you are trying to promote, none of it is possible.

3.) Normandy crew kidnap could have easily been avoided, but that's not important. Without the IFF, the Normandy doesn't pass through the Omega-4 relay and the Collectors eliminate humanity before the war even begins. If that's not a victory to you, then you're blind.

4.) You insist we should avoid Reaper tech at all costs. Do that, and this creation of human engineering never takes place. See how that works?

5.) The loss of a small Alliance team is a small price to pay for slowing the Reapers' progress in infiltrating the galaxy.

The galaxy also advanced with the Mass Relays and Citadel enough to stop the Reapers in this cycle. So, those were good too.

[balance5050]

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The reapers are only gone in destroy.

I flew 'em into a sun. Bye Harbinger, I wish you actually appeared in ME3.

Nice headcanon.

[dreman9999]

xsdob wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Not indoctrinated, just visionary. Which beats cowardly every day.

Destroy path is for the masses who can't handle the burden of leadership. Fear power, fear change, live in fear.

Still indoctrinated Where is this "Shepard needs better HUSKS" signature when you need it...

Visionary. All you ever see from pro-Destroy camp is pathos arguments: catalyst is the enemy and we musn't trust him!, we can't work with him!, traitor!, indoctrinated!, look at the bad examples of what Reaper tech has done!, (and please, only the bad examples, never the good ones).

Logos? Almost never.

Indoctrinated. Name one example of Reaper Tech that brought about something good.

Thanix cannon's and EDI

Again, we never would of been fighing this war if we never touched their tech.

Why does reverse engineered products from reaper tech not count?

Fine, I'll play your game, The mass relays, but only because you decided to change the rules.

I didn't change the rule...This is the rules the reapers set...Remeber, Sovergin tells you that they(the reapers)left their tech behind to be used as a lure to  their trap for organics. 
Literaly, if we never touched the reapers tech, we would not be in this war.

[Jamie9]

balance5050 wrote...

Nice headcanon.

Hmm, I was explicitly shown I could control the Reapers in ME3. Are you saying I can't?

You weren't explicitly shown every Reaper was destroyed in the destroy ending. But they were.

[xsdob]

balance5050 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The reapers are only gone in destroy.

I flew 'em into a sun. Bye Harbinger, I wish you actually appeared in ME3.

Nice headcanon.

Me, I'm keeping them around to try and solve some of the galaxies problems, but first I'm sending them a large file on all reaper related tech, on indoctrination, and anything else I can to help make sure the galaxy can prepare in case I go rouge.

Other than that, my sig explains it all.

[dreman9999]

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The reapers are only gone in destroy.

I flew 'em into a sun. Bye Harbinger, I wish you actually appeared in ME3.

Can you tell me what the vague statement "You will die. You will control us but lose everything you have" means?

[Micah3sixty]

dreman9999 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

This isn't Inception.  If it weren't real, the husks, Marauder Shields and TIM would not be able to kill you resulting in Mission Failed.  The unlimitted ammo and Anderson reaching the control panel before Shepard are more easily dismissed as poor writing or developer laziness than IT.  Nearly everything IT-ers point at to support their belief is pure speculation, personal opinion and confirmation bias.

The idea is to subjuget the mind. If shepard dies in the dream, that only mean his mind is subjugated.

There isn't any evidence to support that claim.  There aren't any on screen explanations saying you failed to evade indoctrination.  We don't wake up at the end like we do after the dream sequences.  Shepard taking a breath after destroy can only be taken at face value of him/her surviving the explosion on the Citadel and the rubble can equally be rubble from the Citadel as the rubble of London.  The Citadel isn't entirely destroyed, only broken apart.  Again, we can only go off of what is presented in game, and what we see in game does not have sufficient clues or facts to support the ending being some head-game indoctrination outside of reality.

[davishepard]

dreman9999 wrote...
Who said that the reapers had contol of what showed up in the dream? Think of it like the geth concensus where Shepard mind filled in the blanks with memory. The reaper would just be putting suggetions in the dreams to influence Shepard  but not fully control him. Really, there is not proof what is seen is  real.

Read what you are writing, it's pure wishful thinking. You don't like the end, believe the IT because of it, and will embrace any poor or delusional "explanation" to support it.

The dreams that Shepard have with the kid that died on Earth could have a more simple explanation: reflects the reality of what really happened. Shepard could help the kid that ended up blasted by a Reaper beam, so the kid burns in Shepard's dream before he can reach him. The end.

Again, there's no proof that the end is not real. Just wishful thinking from people that didn't like the ending.

[Alexius]

I can't believe this thread is for real...

[balance5050]

Jamie9 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Nice headcanon.

Hmm, I was explicitly shown I could control the Reapers in ME3. Are you saying I can't?

You weren't explicitly shown every Reaper was destroyed in the destroy ending. But they were.

It's head canon, you may think you flew them into the sun, other people rebuild the relays, some want to police the galaxy. It just doesn't ACTUALLY show any of that.

It DOES however, show that you wake up back on Earth if you have high EMS and choose destroy.

[Jamie9]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The reapers are only gone in destroy.

I flew 'em into a sun. Bye Harbinger, I wish you actually appeared in ME3.

Can you tell me what the vague statement "You will die. You will control us but lose everything you have" means?

No. All 3 endings have very vague statements that could mean anything.

I do know Shepard asks, "So you will obey me?"

"Yes."

Lose everything you have LIKELY refers to physical body and obviously Shep's friends and his life - he'll never return to it again. But that's not proven because BioWare only gave the Catalyst 14 lines of dialogue.

What we know for sure is that Shep can control the Reapers (or at least move them) because we see it happen.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

dreman9999 wrote...

Literaly, if we never touched the reapers tech, we would not be in this war.

So stay on Earth and die of overpopulation like the drell?

Great plan.

[davishepard]

balance5050 wrote...

It's head canon, you may think you flew them into the sun, other people rebuild the relays, some want to police the galaxy. It just doesn't ACTUALLY show any of that.

It DOES however, show that you wake up back on Earth if you have high EMS and choose destroy.

This only points out the fact that Shepard doesn't have a body to wake up back by choosing Control or Synthesis, by obvious reasons.

[xsdob]

dreman9999 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Not indoctrinated, just visionary. Which beats cowardly every day.

Destroy path is for the masses who can't handle the burden of leadership. Fear power, fear change, live in fear.

Still indoctrinated Where is this "Shepard needs better HUSKS" signature when you need it...

Visionary. All you ever see from pro-Destroy camp is pathos arguments: catalyst is the enemy and we musn't trust him!, we can't work with him!, traitor!, indoctrinated!, look at the bad examples of what Reaper tech has done!, (and please, only the bad examples, never the good ones).

Logos? Almost never.

Indoctrinated. Name one example of Reaper Tech that brought about something good.

Thanix cannon's and EDI

Again, we never would of been fighing this war if we never touched their tech.

Why does reverse engineered products from reaper tech not count?

Fine, I'll play your game, The mass relays, but only because you decided to change the rules.

I didn't change the rule...This is the rules the reapers set...Remeber, Sovergin tells you that they(the reapers)left their tech behind to be used as a lure to  their trap for organics. 
Literaly, if we never touched the reapers tech, we would not be in this war.

True, but to do that we'd need to have stoped exploring the galaxy are pluto, and at our solar system. I'd make a cool concept for sure, and even a great point in mass effect 4 if ever there was one, a new enemy who advanced within their own solar system and never discovered the realys until after their systems one overloaded. Than they begin expanding out into the galaxy, their new and foriegn tech making them a formitable threat to those left in the galaxy.

Sorry, I rabbit trailed for a bit, but I'll conceade your point.

[balance5050]

xsdob wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The reapers are only gone in destroy.

I flew 'em into a sun. Bye Harbinger, I wish you actually appeared in ME3.

Nice headcanon.

Me, I'm keeping them around to try and solve some of the galaxies problems, but first I'm sending them a large file on all reaper related tech, on indoctrination, and anything else I can to help make sure the galaxy can prepare in case I go rouge.

Other than that, my sig explains it all.

Good for you? I don't think any man should be in charge of that kind of power.

[Micah3sixty]

AlexiusDAlex wrote...

I can't believe this thread is for real...

Me neither.  IT has nearly become a religion to itself, with only faith as a means to believe in it.

[balance5050]

davishepard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

It's head canon, you may think you flew them into the sun, other people rebuild the relays, some want to police the galaxy. It just doesn't ACTUALLY show any of that.

It DOES however, show that you wake up back on Earth if you have high EMS and choose destroy.

This only points out the fact that Shepard doesn't have a body to wake up back by choosing Control or Synthesis, by obvious reasons.

No, it was meant for much more than that sir.

 

[dreamgazer]

Micah3sixty wrote...

AlexiusDAlex wrote...

I can't believe this thread is for real...

Me neither.  IT has nearly become a religion to itself, with only faith as a means to believe in it.

And people wonder where the anger comes from. 

[dreman9999]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


...Sure , we can fight bat with this tech but wouldwe be be fighting in the first place if we never touch the tech in the first place?

Visonary my foot. You're trusting an enemy that want to mind control everyone and turn them to paste to "help" them. 

Yes. You'd be stuck on Earth while the Reapers have you for lunch, or go the way of the drell.

And, the Catalyst is not an enemy either. Unless you like Wreav-logic. Or VS-on-Mars-logic.

Please, nothing can be said what would happen if we never used the tech...We would of advance beyond earth to the other planets in the system. In the lore, before we used the tech we were already planning on flying to alpha centrati and canceled it because we found other  planets mor conveniant. My poin tis the reaper would have never found us.

[Shepard Wins]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...


1) Like I said, Turian engineering, not pure Reaper Tech

2) Prothean creation

3) Oh yeah that one was totally good... Got the Normandy crew kidnapped, possibly killed, and the only reason it was necessary in the first place was that it was needed to go through Omega 4 relay

4) A creation of human engineering

5) How is that good? It indoctrinated Kenson and the entire Project team

The only two good Reaper tech examples could be the Mass Relays and the Citadel, but they were, in a long run, a trap, so it isn't that obvious.

1.) Remnants of Sovereign lead to its creation. Simple: no Reaper tech, no Thanix cannon. And, one dead squadmate in ME2.

2.) Again, based off Reaper tech, used to rewrite Keepers (also Reaper tech) at the Citadel. Instrumental in this cycle's success in conquering the Reaper threat. If Protheans had a "avoid Reaper tech at all costs" attitude that you are trying to promote, none of it is possible.

3.) Normandy crew kidnap could have easily been avoided, but that's not important. Without the IFF, the Normandy doesn't pass through the Omega-4 relay and the Collectors eliminate humanity before the war even begins. If that's not a victory to you, then you're blind.

4.) You insist we should avoid Reaper tech at all costs. Do that, and this creation of human engineering never takes place. See how that works?

5.) The loss of a small Alliance team is a small price to pay for slowing the Reapers' progress in infiltrating the galaxy.

The galaxy also advanced with the Mass Relays and Citadel enough to stop the Reapers in this cycle. So, those were good too.

I'm not trying to promote "avoid Reaper tech at all times" attitude.Thing is, it's dangerous and has to be handled with caution.

1) Ah yes, but Sovereign was dead when it was salvaged. Dead, as in DESTROYed. See how that works?
2) It was a Prothean designed Mass Relay, Relay technology doesn't indoctrinate so it was safer
3) - the IFF was a necessary evil there, you're confusing the end with the means;
4) EDI isn't defined by the fact that she was created using Reaper Tech; the game is kinda vague on that one
5) Whoa, have you paid attention to Arrival? Stopping the Reapers (the Project) was about sending an asteroid into a Relay, and Object Rho would have stopped that from happening, had it not been for Shepard's intervention. So no, Object Rho is not good.

[Jamie9]

balance5050 wrote...

It's head canon, you may think you flew them into the sun, other people rebuild the relays, some want to police the galaxy. It just doesn't ACTUALLY show any of that.

It DOES however, show that you wake up back on Earth if you have high EMS and choose destroy.

That argument can apply to everything. Theoretically, canon stops at the end of ME3, and nothing happens after that. We can only go off what the game tells us. The game tells us we can control the Reapers. That means I can throw them into a sun, that means I can rule the galaxy with them.

Perhaps Shepard dies straight after that breath.

Perhaps control allows you to control the Reapers.

I really hate having this vague ending. It literally makes it impossible to debate these things because NOTHING is concrete. We can only spring from what is shown.

[balance5050]

Micah3sixty wrote...

AlexiusDAlex wrote...

I can't believe this thread is for real...

Me neither.  IT has nearly become a religion to itself, with only faith as a means to believe in it.

http://www.holdtheli...on-theory.1909/ 

[dreman9999]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Literaly, if we never touched the reapers tech, we would not be in this war.

So stay on Earth and die of overpopulation like the drell?

Great plan.

Please, nothing can be said what would happen if we never used the tech...We would of advance beyond earth to the other planets in the system. In the lore, before we used the tech we were already planning on flying to alpha centrati and canceled it because we found other  planets more conveniant to get to. My point is the reaper would have never found us.
And the drells problem is that they never developed space flight...We did.

[xsdob]

balance5050 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The reapers are only gone in destroy.

I flew 'em into a sun. Bye Harbinger, I wish you actually appeared in ME3.

Nice headcanon.

Me, I'm keeping them around to try and solve some of the galaxies problems, but first I'm sending them a large file on all reaper related tech, on indoctrination, and anything else I can to help make sure the galaxy can prepare in case I go rouge.

Other than that, my sig explains it all.

Good for you? I don't think any man should be in charge of that kind of power.

That's your take on it but I view power as a neutral force in the galaxy, it's all up to the weilder to determine how it's used. A good man uses his power only when needed, a bad one uses it only when he wants something.

That's my outlook on it, it doesn't corrupt but shows how people actually are when the fear of societal stigma and retribution is removed.

Also a lot of the fiction I like already has people with vast power using it for the sake of others and doing so out of choice, it's not something that I'd go, "This is stupid becuase he didn't turn evil with his powers".

Modifié par xsdob, 26 mai 2012 - 05:39 .