242 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

Micah3sixty wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

As a raw idea.  The specifics can come later.  It doedsn't have to say "indoctrination" or "dream sequence".  It just shows the internal thought-processes behind what they wanted the audience to endure with the ending. 

More wishful thinking.
"It's not there, but that doesn't mean nothing. It can still be."

You IT guys just have infinite explanations to support your delusion. It's kinda amazing.

Indeed.  It's like watching the inception of a religion based off of unsupported and unprovable beliefs and speculation.

Too bad there are pages and pages worth of evidence.

[Shepard Wins]

balance5050 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

As a raw idea.  The specifics can come later.  It doedsn't have to say "indoctrination" or "dream sequence".  It just shows the internal thought-processes behind what they wanted the audience to endure with the ending. 

More wishful thinking.
"It's not there, but that doesn't mean nothing. It can still be."

You IT guys just have infinite explanations to support your delusion. It's kinda amazing.

U so silly. It's all right there in front of you and you still can't see it.

He's not silly. He's just indoctrinated

[dreamgazer]

davishepard wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

As a raw idea.  The specifics can come later.  It doedsn't have to say "indoctrination" or "dream sequence".  It just shows the internal thought-processes behind what they wanted the audience to endure with the ending. 

More wishful thinking.
"It's not there, but that doesn't mean nothing. It can still be."

You IT guys just have infinite explanations to support your delusion. It's kinda amazing.

I won't jump to the same debasement or generalization as you, but if that's what I'm doing, then you're reframing every situation to only benefit the negative side of the spectrum as well.  

The paper is motive and suggestive that they don't want the audience to perceive everything at face-value; it's not an ironclad contract saying they're implementing indoctrination into the game, and never did I say it was. 

[dreman9999]

Jamie9 wrote...

@Dreman9999

So we've all been debating for over an hour. I want to just sumarise my feelings. There is a lot of compelling evidence for IT. I've seen all the videos, I've seen the 85 minute documentary on YouTube. I can't explain some things away. We know, for a fact, they were considering implementing indoctrination into the TIM fight at some point.

So perhaps they scrapped the idea? Perhaps they still have it planned? Perhaps it is just a fan theory?

What matters is that the Extended Cut is good. It can use IT and be good. It can not use IT and be good. We all want the same thing. So while we each have our own preferences, lets remember to keep an open mind.

Agreed..Personally, All I want is for peopel to agree that IT is possible.
But my issue with the other choices is that most peopel who pick them ignore alot of details like the past reaper actions and the fact that nothing is there to prove the star child is telling the truth.
My Issue really is that people are giving too much trust to this character.

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 mai 2012 - 06:09 .

[balance5050]

Shepard Wins wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

As a raw idea.  The specifics can come later.  It doedsn't have to say "indoctrination" or "dream sequence".  It just shows the internal thought-processes behind what they wanted the audience to endure with the ending. 

More wishful thinking.
"It's not there, but that doesn't mean nothing. It can still be."

You IT guys just have infinite explanations to support your delusion. It's kinda amazing.

U so silly. It's all right there in front of you and you still can't see it.

He's not silly. He's just indoctrinated

[nicksmi56]

@dreman9999 If you didn't trust him, you wouldn't pick any of the choices. You'd just wait around until the Crucible blew up. The game forces you to pick one of HIS choices.

[davishepard]

I think that when EC cames out and trash IT to pieces, "Who is indocrinated now?" will be a likely thread title to came up here on BSN. ^^

[Micah3sixty]

dreman9999 wrote...


Agreed..Personally, All I want is for peopel to agree that IT is possible.
But my issue with the other choices is that most peopel who pick them ignore alot of details like the past reaper actions and the fact that nothing is there to prove the star child is telling the truth.
My Issue really is that people are giving too much trust to this character.

I admit that IT is a possibility, I even strongly supported and believed in it once.  But I came to realize I was mostly falling into confirmation bias and speculation.  Taking the ending at it's face value, not reading into it clues that don't appear to be intended, I don't believe IT was intended and am more interested in EC clarifying what the writers originally intended, and would be surprised if IT was a part of that.

[dreman9999]

balance5050 wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

As a raw idea.  The specifics can come later.  It doedsn't have to say "indoctrination" or "dream sequence".  It just shows the internal thought-processes behind what they wanted the audience to endure with the ending. 

More wishful thinking.
"It's not there, but that doesn't mean nothing. It can still be."

You IT guys just have infinite explanations to support your delusion. It's kinda amazing.

Indeed.  It's like watching the inception of a religion based off of unsupported and unprovable beliefs and speculation.

Too bad there are pages and pages worth of evidence.

Let's list them...
The codex.
The plot.
The fact that being near reaper tech indoctriantes the person.
The fact Shepard has been near reaper tech on and off for 3 years.
The syntoms.
The fact that every symtom pops up during the time TIM controls Shepar and Anderson.
A book, ME: Retrubution, the put the reader in the perspective of a person being indoctrinated and goes into detals about it.
The fact that it effects the limbic system first , a system that effect pdst and dreams.
The fact Shepard suddenly has the same ptsd dream repiditly.
The fact a symtom of indoctriantion is repided dreams.

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 mai 2012 - 06:19 .

[jijeebo]

davishepard wrote...

I think that when EC cames out and trash IT to pieces, "Who is indocrinated now?" will be a likely thread title to came up here on BSN. ^^

I hope whichever way it turns out everyone remains civil, although I am aware that this will never be the case... Too many bad eggs and trolls out there.

[dreamgazer]

Micah3sixty wrote...

Indeed.  It's like watching the inception of a religion based off of unsupported and unprovable beliefs and speculation.

Does saying things like that make you feel superior in some way? Because it actually achieves the opposite result.  If you want to see where the insults have actually been bred on the board, look at your comment.  

It's an interpretation based on what I've seen. If it's wrong, that's fine.  I'm wrapping my mind around it because it's enjoyable, it makes sense, it's an element BioWare incorporated in every game of the series (and HEAVILY referenced in the third game), and there are easy-to-digest clues that point at it.  Turning it around into religious-based fanticism is insulting and not indicative of my viewpoint.

Just bear in mind that many, many people saw that Deckard was a replicant before Ridley Scott confirmed it to be true. Until then, it was an interpretation based on sly clues.

[dreman9999]

Micah3sixty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


Agreed..Personally, All I want is for peopel to agree that IT is possible.
But my issue with the other choices is that most peopel who pick them ignore alot of details like the past reaper actions and the fact that nothing is there to prove the star child is telling the truth.
My Issue really is that people are giving too much trust to this character.

I admit that IT is a possibility, I even strongly supported and believed in it once.  But I came to realize I was mostly falling into confirmation bias and speculation.  Taking the ending at it's face value, not reading into it clues that don't appear to be intended, I don't believe IT was intended and am more interested in EC clarifying what the writers originally intended, and would be surprised if IT was a part of that.

But even taking the ending at face value there still can be indotrination....
Remeber , there 3 theories for IT.
http://social.biowar.../index/12023755

[Shepard Wins]

davishepard wrote...

I think that when EC cames out and trash IT to pieces, "Who is indocrinated now?" will be a likely thread title to came up here on BSN. ^^

Angry much?

[balance5050]

Shepard Wins wrote...

davishepard wrote...

I think that when EC cames out and trash IT to pieces, "Who is indocrinated now?" will be a likely thread title to came up here on BSN. ^^

Angry much?

Most literalists seem to always be in a bad mood. Wonder why?

[Shepard Wins]

Micah3sixty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


Agreed..Personally, All I want is for peopel to agree that IT is possible.
But my issue with the other choices is that most peopel who pick them ignore alot of details like the past reaper actions and the fact that nothing is there to prove the star child is telling the truth.
My Issue really is that people are giving too much trust to this character.

I admit that IT is a possibility, I even strongly supported and believed in it once.  But I came to realize I was mostly falling into confirmation bias and speculation.  Taking the ending at it's face value, not reading into it clues that don't appear to be intended, I don't believe IT was intended and am more interested in EC clarifying what the writers originally intended, and would be surprised if IT was a part of that.

I don't mean to be a d**k but I thought you said you're gonna /thread?

I'm glad you didn't though, I love your avatar I also have a similar mindset, I think IT is plausible.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Shepard Wins wrote...

1.) Well yeah, and? You ask for good examples of Reaper tech. If it can be used safely afterall to create things like the Thanix, what's the problem here?
4.) Seeing how much more incredibly advanced Reapers are than simple AIs, I doubt one could have subsituted for EDI so easily.
5.) The Project is only possible because of Object Rho. All Shepard even has to do is eliminate the indoctrinated agents inside it and get it restarted. In the end, the loss of the Alpha Relay was a blow to the Reapers.

1) bolded the important part
4) they managed to use it safely then
5) again, you're talking about the outcome and I'm talking about the object itself. Object Rho is evil and dangerous.

1.) So, it can be used safely.
5.) Evil? No, technology is a neutral entity. What we make of it is good or evil. Dangerous? Yes. But, so is nuclear power. Hasn't stop us from developing it - many have died merely from experimenting with it. There is no failure - if you have learned from it. The loss of Kenson and her team were unfortunate but it was more than made up for.

In summary, yes, there are instances of Reaper Tech used safely and to our advantage.

And that's what you asked for. Thank you for agreeing with me.

But Control and Synthesis are both succumbing to Reaper logic and therefor being indoctrinated

And I've still yet to see you, or really anyone, prove this point beyond pathos arguments.

[Shepard Wins]

balance5050 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

davishepard wrote...

I think that when EC cames out and trash IT to pieces, "Who is indocrinated now?" will be a likely thread title to came up here on BSN. ^^

Angry much?

Most literalists seem to always be in a bad mood. Wonder why?

If I were to take the endings at face value, I'd be in bad mood myself

[balance5050]

 
Control- 

The reapers LOVE to control, it's what they are all about. They have left technology scattered around the galaxy in order to control our evolutionary path, they control our future by forcing the most advanced civilizations to become them, there is practically NO aspect of life that they don't control in one way or another

Synthesis-

The reapers have always regarded themselves as the most advanced civilization, they ARE the prime example of synthesis, it's not pretty. They ARE the alpha predator and DON'T consider pure organics or pure synthetics to be anything more than fuel or nuisances. They believe that synthesis is the best evolutionary model to live by.

Destroy- 

One thing the Catalyst says that rings true is they DO preserve life, they let organics live simply because they need us for survival, to destroy is to create chaos, but out of that chaos rises freedom, a new beginning, and infinite possibilities.

To believe that either control or synthesis is the answer is to agree with the reapers, which opens the door for them to exploit that side of your psyche, convincing you that siding with the reapers is a better solution than destroying them. 

[balance5050]

Shepard Wins wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

davishepard wrote...

I think that when EC cames out and trash IT to pieces, "Who is indocrinated now?" will be a likely thread title to came up here on BSN. ^^

Angry much?

Most literalists seem to always be in a bad mood. Wonder why?

If I were to take the endings at face value, I'd be in bad mood myself

Yep. I've been saying it for a long time; must be hard being a literalist.

"What? Tyler Durden IS NOT just a figment of his psyche! It's just bad writing!"

[Shepard Wins]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

1.) Well yeah, and? You ask for good examples of Reaper tech. If it can be used safely afterall to create things like the Thanix, what's the problem here?
4.) Seeing how much more incredibly advanced Reapers are than simple AIs, I doubt one could have subsituted for EDI so easily.
5.) The Project is only possible because of Object Rho. All Shepard even has to do is eliminate the indoctrinated agents inside it and get it restarted. In the end, the loss of the Alpha Relay was a blow to the Reapers.

1) bolded the important part
4) they managed to use it safely then
5) again, you're talking about the outcome and I'm talking about the object itself. Object Rho is evil and dangerous.

1.) So, it can be used safely.
5.) Evil? No, technology is a neutral entity. What we make of it is good or evil. Dangerous? Yes. But, so is nuclear power. Hasn't stop us from developing it - many have died merely from experimenting with it. There is no failure - if you have learned from it. The loss of Kenson and her team were unfortunate but it was more than made up for.

In summary, yes, there are instances of Reaper Tech used safely and to our advantage.

And that's what you asked for. Thank you for agreeing with me.

But Control and Synthesis are both succumbing to Reaper logic and therefor being indoctrinated

And I've still yet to see you, or really anyone, prove this point beyond pathos arguments.

I don't have to prove anything to you! You're indoctrinated!

Modifié par Shepard Wins, 26 mai 2012 - 06:27 .

[dreamgazer]

balance5050 wrote...

Yep. I've been saying it for a long time; must be hard being a literalist.

"What? Tyler Durden IS NOT just a figment of his psyche! It's just bad writing!"

While I agree with your sentiment and understand your thought-processes, there's a key moment in Fight Club that Mass Effect 3 doesn't currently have: the big reveal.  The movie point-blank tells you that the interpretation is correct. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Shepard Wins wrote...

I don't have to prove anything to you! You're indoctrinated!

I rest my case.

[balance5050]

dreamgazer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Yep. I've been saying it for a long time; must be hard being a literalist.

"What? Tyler Durden IS NOT just a figment of his psyche! It's just bad writing!"

While I agree with your sentiment and understand your thought-processes, there's a key moment in Fight Club that Mass Effect 3 doesn't currently have: the big reveal.  The movie point-blank tells you that the interpretation is correct. 

Hopefully the big reveal will be in the EC or subsequent dlc.

[balance5050]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

I don't have to prove anything to you! You're indoctrinated!

I rest my case.

Good, now you can go away cause I don't like indoctrinated puppets who stand for nothing^_^

[Shepard Wins]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

I don't have to prove anything to you! You're indoctrinated!

I rest my case.

Prove it