52 réponses à ce sujet

[Windninja47]

 So on my origins playthrough Leliana got a mild case of getting her head chopped off, and yet she seemed to have recovered quite nicely by the time dragon age 2 came out. What are your theories on how this happened? (A spirit, Andraste's ashes, space magic ect.)

Modifié par Windninja47, 27 mai 2012 - 09:16 .

[whykikyouwhy]

She's a phoenix who possesses the ability to shapeshift.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Given that the only place she can die in DAO is the lyrium-laced room with the magical healing ashes in it, I have not felt the need to seek a further explanation.

[Face of Evil]

"Survived"? She was alive at the end of all my playthroughs.

[Sabriana]

No matter how much I do not care for Leliana, none of my Wardens ever tainted the ashes or killed her. I did however watch someone playing who did.

Yes, being killed in a magical room might explain how she could survive, if it was anything else than a beheading. Granted, I did not actually see her head fly off (and glad I am about that), but nevertheless, being magically restored from a stab/slice/crushing blow is a bit more believable than getting your head back.

Seeing how no one present seemed to comment in any profound way, I could be that the Warden who killed her only thought she killed her. Perhaps inhaling those tainted ashes, and the trauma of getting the reaver skills sort of knocked the Warden's senses out of kilter. In a major way.... sort of.

[SiIencE]

I wonder why someone would kill Leliana really, for me she's 1 of the most interesting characters.
Same for Morrigan, imo one of the better romances especially in the end when she get's all gritty.

But since she never died in my PT's, and believe me i'm no religious type at all but respecting the dead is something everyone should do (depends on who off course). Also depends on what kind of character you play or want to play, if i were to play a sadistic bastard with no respect for anything i don't think i'll have many party members left it's either all the way or not at all.

And why she's alive again after someones PT where she got killed, maybe Andrastes ashes did it, maybe 'The Maker' or she just got badly wounded and the Guardian took care of her(if you didn't kill him). And yes i ALWAYS forget to take of my gear/lack of inventory space when passing through the fire (no i didn't die?!) and endup killing him.

[Dutchess]

Her codex entry said she was dead, so I find it inexcusable that she is suddenly alive and well in DA2.

Perhaps Flemeth learned her one of her own tricks.

[Davillo]

There are no theories about how she survived, he death is not cannon for Dragon Age and bioware does not care if she died in you play through, and neither do I. I am glad they made her important in DA:2.

[Sabriana]

Well, sorry, but they should care. If she was killable, that should have been a concern. If they didn't want her to die, they should have given her plot armor in some way, shape, or form. Cohesion is boss. You can't simply handwave without compromising your credibility. At least explain why she did/could survive in a comprehensible fashion.

None of my Wardens killed her. I could never allow that as a player. But there are those who did. Their choice should matter, because it was a choice given to them.

[TEWR]

Sabriana wrote...

Yes, being killed in a magical room might explain how she could survive, if it was anything else than a beheading. Granted, I did not actually see her head fly off (and glad I am about that), but nevertheless, being magically restored from a stab/slice/crushing blow is a bit more believable than getting your head back.

Flashy gameplay killing animations cannot be taken as lore. They can be seen to reflect it only, as in the case with the Ogre.

I can behead Ser Cauthrien and lose the battle, but she'll be alive later on. That means the killing animation was there for show, not to be taken as lore.

I can behead The First and he'll speak in the subsequent scenes. Beheading him doesn't mean that he was actually beheaded. It means the killing animation was there for show.

Even when the game bugs out and shows him speaking with no head, that doesn't mean the beheading actually happened seeing as how you can't speak without a head.

===========================================================

Regarding Leliana's resurrection, doesn't matter to me. I'm not even sure Bioware has an explanation, despite assurances to the contrarty.

If they give her one -- and really, I've thought of various ways she could've survived due to the nature of the area -- then that's fine. If not, I don't really care in the long run so long as she's given a decent future story.

Should they give her a good explanation as to why she's still kicking? Undoubtedly. But ultimately, I'm apathetic to whether they do or don't.

Really, all of this backlash could've been avoided if there was a scene that showed Leliana (and/or Wynne) still breathing but badly injured -- to the point of bleeding profusely -- while the Warden leaves the area.

[jackofalltrades456]

Liliana? Is that Leliana's evil twin sister?

Ohhhh....Maybe that wasn't the real Leliana in Dragon Age 2!

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 26 mai 2012 - 09:29 .

[nightscrawl]

Andrastee wrote...

Given that the only place she can die in DAO is the lyrium-laced room with the magical healing ashes in it, I have not felt the need to seek a further explanation.

This is cheap at best IMO.

With relation to her, people had four possible outcomes: 1) you killed her because you chose to defile the Urn with her present in the room; 2) she found out about it afterward and left you [presumably still alive]; 3) she lived, yay happy ending; or 4) you never recruited her in the first place, leaving her alive in Lothering the last time you saw her [no, it does NOT matter that you think she would have stayed to help people because of her character, the fact is that you did not SEE her die in Lothering].

So, only 1/4 of those possible outcomes has her undisputed death. I'm going to assume here that the great majority of plays had her living in some form or other. Bioware has data on this. I think that if 80% of people chose to kill her, or indeed never recruited her at all despite being a romance option, Bioware would never have chosen to include her in the DA2 follow up in the first place.

They picked the outcome that affected the highest portion of their players. The only other alternative would have been to not include her at all, which they, apparently, didn't want to do. I feel much the same way about Anders. They wanted to have Anders (and Justice) carry over into the next game, so several of your choices regarding him didn't matter. The storyline basically requires you to have recruited him, not turned him over to the templars during his quest, met Justice, and acquired all upgrades for the keep. If you did not do those things, nothing in DA2 makes sense for a person who played DAA.

Both of those characters in DA2 are retcons because they do not take player choice into account. I don't really care, to be honest. They wanted their story to take a specific path so they did what they felt was necessary to achieve this. However, let's not lie to ourselves and talk about magical rooms or Justice bringing Anders back to life (if you left him to a poor keep), and so forth. The game wasn't designed in a vacuum, suddenly appearing with all its story elements complete. It was designed by a company who has reasons, whether good or bad (from a player standpoint), for doing what they do.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Even when the game bugs out and shows him speaking with no head, that doesn't mean the beheading actually happened seeing as how you can't speak without a head.

Rofl! Can that actually happen??

Modifié par nightscrawl, 26 mai 2012 - 09:31 .

[Gervaise]

Most likely explanation is that she was "saved" by a spirit of faith. Presumably this could even refix a head (though more likely that would be overlooked as a flashy animation). Wynne was saved from death by a spirit. She then allowed that spirit to leave her and "gave" it to someone else who quite clearly says she was called back from the other side by this spirit.
I'd also think that even if you did attempt to corrupt the ashes, like as not it did not really succeed (only thought you did), so their influence would also come into play.
In the DA world death is not always permanent, particularly if you have the knowledge to prepare for it and have a contingency plan - who is to say that Lelianna didn't have access to such knowledge?

[TEWR]

nightscrawl wrote...

Rofl! Can that actually happen??

Supposedly. It's never happened to me, but the wiki says it is possible. Has a picture to prove it too.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 mai 2012 - 10:00 .

[Dave of Canada]

It can happen, mostly with NPCs which talk in the cutscenes after you've "killed" them. Death animations are non-canon, as they're a game mechanic and thrown in for show. It was especially upsetting after beheading Teagan.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 27 mai 2012 - 05:46 .

[Reznore57]

Maybe she fake death?
Afterall she's a bard , she must have some tricks up her sleeve....
About beheaded problem , I agree with a lot of people in the threat , it's a game mechanic .

And i think she was supposed to be really dead , and the writers resurrect her because it might have been convenient for them.
I hope they won't abuse that kind of things because it cheapens the player decision.
And it cheapens death ...never a good thing if not done in a meaningful way.

[Urzon]

The question isn't how Leliana got ress'ed. It's how does this thread keeps getting ress'ed.

Modifié par Urzon, 27 mai 2012 - 06:21 .

[Sabariel]

Quentin sewed her head back on and reanimated her.

[Windninja47]

Yeah, that beheading but still talking bug happnened to me too. Honestly I didn't know that the kill animations aren't cannon- it's pretty weird that they're not. I suppose what they should have done was make it that important characters could not have those kill animations done to them during a fight but you could do it on grunts- that way they could be considered cannon.

[Sabriana]

Sabariel wrote...

Quentin sewed her head back on and reanimated her.

As for the animations, if I see them happen in-game, then for me, they happened. If those presumably beheaded characters miraculously survive, then that is messed up. If they survived with a feasable explanation, fine. But I go by what I see in-game. My Warden is in her world, and that's real to her and to me, the player. Flashy animations for the sake of flashy animations is bogus, imo.

As for 'the first', I don't know about him. I don't own DLC or Awakenings - don't need, don't want -. Ser Cauthrien never died either (just like Leliana never did), so I wouldn't know about that. Some of my Wardens tried, but got their butts handed to them. Aside from that, once I saw the 'break out of jail' sequences, that's what I went for. Hilarious, all of them.

So yes, if they are resurrected, please explain it. Or leave it ambiguous, as in 'she might be dead, but then again, she might not'. Don't show me a 'flashy animation' simply because it's 'cool'.

So, considering where some Lelianas died, there could be an explanation of her getting better, if they stuck to a 'flashy' stabbing animation. Or the Warden only thought she beheaded Leliana, that place lends itself to hallucination theories all on its own.

[thats1evildude]

Yes, I've had that cutscene with a decapitated First. I've also had chats with headless elves and Headless Flemeth (in the Fade).

I've also had quite a few conversations with people while on fire. Please, nobody put out the Warden or anything. He's got lots of hit points, he can take it.

Sabriana wrote...

But I go by what I see in-game.

If I did that, then I'd also have to assume that Bann Vaughan was alive at the Landsmeet after I killed him.

Out of curiousity, what is the problem with accepting what she says, again? That the Maker brought her back to life? I'm pretty sure that, as a deity, he can probably do all sorts of miraculous things.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 27 mai 2012 - 09:56 .

[Tirigon]

I go with "BioWare imposed a canon even if it retcons your choices".

[thats1evildude]

*Plays a sad violin song*

Modifié par thats1evildude, 27 mai 2012 - 10:07 .